WHAT DOES 13 MEAN

[BIG DUSTY LOCO]

True that. I'm done with this...peace to you both.

[stickupkidakaBIGBANDIT]

I'm going to be a man here, I apologize to you for coming at you foul and I just got disturbed of the fact for you coming at me w/ county and that stay out of my business crap. I'm not going to get here w/ going back and fourth w/ you.

"How old are you dog? Anybody that's like 25 and under will say just what you say.

Anyone older than 30 and active from their low-mid teens will remember what Lonewolf spit out...and I'm talking about chit from the LOS...you a National City boy...that's San Diego holmes...LOL."***********

See that was unecessary coming from an older forum member as yourself. Oh well, but I may not know as much about LOS like you but I mena I can tell you alot about SD, if you cared to learn. Other than that it was a big misunderstanding and keep writing good post/threads, and I'll try my best to do the same. The thing about maravilla was I justed wanted to know the lastest, because I heard 1 or 2 clicks are claiming 13 now I'm not sure if it's Hoyo.

[mangler]

LOS?? Yeah homie aren't you chinese or something you ain't even Mexican, so don't talk about a situation you know nothing about. People like you get the topic off balance you put 13 after your filipino gang for loco where the hell did that come from? Makes no sense ESE I thought you fellas were bloods and crips now your locos?? LOL So your the wannbe ese type, huh. Young sweet asian boys like you get there butt taken in The youth authority. I'm from san diego you better ask somebody who BAtman from Del Sol is he's one of the big doggs from SD who gives order for the big homies. Just because a couple ese hung out w/ you b4 you think we would consider you cool, I bet you if me and you chunked em I bet your homeboys who are mexican would jump in for me. Like homeboy from arteisa Bandit is state raised ESE I been in and out of the system since 9. That's old town National City so obviously you never been in the system becaus eyou would of ran into one of my big homies.

???? thats how yall think about asians surenos?damn! wonder how yall really fell about black surenos....you know some folks say that Surenos except aryans, asians, and others for strategic purposes in the pen. after reading this i think that may be the truth. no love just strategy.....

[stickupkidakaBIGBANDIT]

I don't speak for every sureno.

[Lonewolf]

WHAT'S UP ALONSO, still waiting for a reply, don't give up on me now homie, or are you in the library doing some research, that's cool too.

[Guest]

YALL GOT NO FUKIN CLU3 WUT DIZ IS ALL BOUT YALL NIGGAS N YALL COPZ AKA PIGS FINK YALL KNO SHIT BOUT SUR 13? YALL DONT KNO SHIT

[Lonewolf]

YALL GOT NO #%@& CLU3 WUT DIZ IS ALL BOUT YALL NIGGAS N YALL COPZ AKA PIGS FINK YALL KNO stuff BOUT SUR 13? YALL DONT KNO stuff

And you're a pinche mayuga pinacate, what's with this "YALL", "DIZ", "KNO", "BOUT", "WUT", f-cked up slang of yours, trying to educate us carnales en nuestras cosas. You got some knowledge to share fine, if not shut "yo" mispelled "mouf" up "foo".

[Anonymous20]

QUESTION: When was the first Los Angeles Times Article written about a modern gang in Los Angeles that still exhist??? ANSWER 1939 White Fence Xicano Gang.

*WOW!!! 1939!!!! Oh snap, this article has much relevance in regards to contemporary studies of BLACK GANGS, and the violence and criminal mayhem that they unleashed, now does it?? This mexican gang had nothing to do with the skyrocketing of violence, and the drug trade that erupted in South Central L.A., and the disproportionate and high numbers of casualties that blacks inflicted upon each other, from the early 70's to late 80's!!!

-QUESTION: When was the first in depth book written about modern gangs in Los Angeles that still exhist??? ANSWER 1979 Joan Morre Homeboys :
Gangs, Drugs, and the Prison in the Barrios of Los Angeles wriiten about the Xicano Gangs East Side White Fence and El Hoyo Maravilla.

*Again fool, you must think you're dealing with an amateur! Just because this book was written, focusing on mexican/chicano gangs back in the day, DOESN'T MEAN THAT BLACK GANGS WERE OBSOLETE!!! Secondly, as I said before, so say I now again, WHO HAD THE HIGHEST MURDER RATES, AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES DURING THE TIME PERIOD BETWEEN THE EARLY 70'S, ON UP UNTIL THE LATE 80
'S??? Can you honestly tell me that!


Yo im sorry homie but for real if the black gangs were hardcore back then dont u think THEY would have had a book on them? Or that the LA Times would have had an artical for them? Think about it homie.. You just sound like a racist black guy..

[MICK]

#1, I;m 28. I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a youngster. I have never tried to be black, just so happened that that was who I always got along with when I was young shi- just happened. As for my name, this is my name Panik Lok. I'm not a crip. I', from Westside Family Gangsters. I used to spend a lot of time over off Willits and Raitt and anyone from santa ana will know where that is, also off of Pasadena and McFadden at the Regency West Apartments and the Medallion Courts. I'm a little old to be sitting on the corner with a 40, so if anyone wants to catch me, it'll have to be at the bar or club. And plenty people know who I am. come down here and ask around. As for where I live, I live over by the Main Place mall now on the border of Orange and Santa Ana. Ask around there too, plenty people know about me. Cholos too. If not by name, they know the whiteboy that rolls with the black hood. In county too. And I'm not downing 13, I'm just stating facts. Said it in county, and I've said it to plenty cholos I know. And other than you, for the most part, they'll admit that they don't like blacks or asians. And I haven't spent much time at all with any white power types. I know they liked to think they were gonna get me in county, but were basically just good for yelling race trader from the other dorms, not one ever stepped to me. Not to say they wouldn't, I know I'm probably what they hate most, but so far, no problems. I think that you're just upset becasue deep down, you know it's wrong to be cool with Nazi's, but you do it anyway. You're just getting defensive because you have no excuse for yourself.

how do you know who i'm cool with? did i ever say i was cool with nazi's? i was just using that as an example as to how you are just putting them down so you will be accepted by the black folks cause you know theres no love between them and nazi's. you see i aint going into no keyboard war with you or anyone else but i will let it be known that i have NO RESPECT for any white boys who try to be what they are'nt, whether they try to be black, oriental, mexican or whatever. i cant say i dislike you as a person cause i dont know you but i just aint down with a whiteboy, in your case, trying to bang with brothers. dont go tryin to say im a racist, ha ha, that aint gonna hold water cause i have friends from many different races, if wanna be's were a race then you could say im a racist then and only then... end of story.

I know this was posted a long time ago, but thats some real sh*t Stateraised. And for all the people in here accusing 13 of being racists,
I've personaly never heard alot of friendly comments from blacks on the subject of hispanics of any kind. I usualy have heard derogatory comments. Not to say all blacks do this,obviously, but maybe this group of hispanics have experienced hate and would rather fight back instead of sitting there.

Look at the f*ckin Irish. Do you have any idea how much we were hated when we first arrived here? Irish were only allowed the most degrating sh*tty jobs you could imagine. They were assaulted when getting off the boats, spit on in the streets and they finaly got sick of it. They rose up and formed street gangs, THE FIRST IN AMERICA, MIGHT I ADD.
WE started everything from gang colors, to sporting hats to the left or right, to bandannas on your right or left hand. ALL OF IT!!!!
We fought back and look at us now. Were just as American as anyone else here.

So as far as SUR 13 goes, I dont blame ANYONE for fighting back against suppression. And for all the people on this site who are racist against hispanics, keep in mind that thats how the Irish were treated, and look what we did. All races were considered forigners upon arrival in the US.
Do you know how many Hispanics come to America on a daily basis?
If you ask me, I belive that Hispanics will soon be just as American as the Irish and everyone else who first came as forigners.

And watch it with the racist slurs, their kids will probably be your kid's boss someday.

~IRISH PRIDE~

[alexalonso]

WHAT'S UP ALONSO, still waiting for a reply, don't give up on me now homie, or are you in the library doing some research, that's cool too.

You were correct about the 13 meaning Marijuana. I actually remember in the early 1980s hearing some Clanteros from off Western talking about this one time, but I really was not paying much attention, except that I heard them say the 13 = M = Mota or Marijuana.

[alexalonso]

Alright, Big Dusty Loco and StikUpKid Big Bandit, let's chill out homies. This is supposed to be a "FORUM", and the subject was WHAT DOES 13 MEAN?. Now, I have put on the table the OriGinal meaning as I have known it in my familia origins, now Alonso has been debating me on this issue in regards to the 14th letter in the Mexican alphabet being the "M" or not. Alonso put up his version of the spanish alphabet, and I put up the Mexican alphabet that I've learned in school. Below is a list of both of them. You can review for yourselves, and I'll appreciate your comments. Alonso's "SPANISH ALPHABET".
1-A, 2-B, 3-C, "4-CH", 5-D, 6-E, 7-F, 8-G, 9-H, 10-I, 11-J, 12-K, 13-L, "14-LL", "15-M", 16-N, "17-ñ", 18-O, 19-P, 20-Q, 21-R, "22-RR", 23-S, 24-T, 25-U, 26-V, 27-W, "28-X", "29-X", 30-Y, 31-Z., 31 LETTER'S HUH ALONSO. Lonewolf's "MEJICO ALPHABET".
1-A, 2-B, 3-C, 4-D, 5-E, 6-F, 7-G, 8-H, 9-I, 10-J, 11-K, 12-L 13-LL, "14-M", 15-N, 16-ñ, 17-O, 18-P, 19-Q, 20-R, 21-RR, 22-S, 23-T, 24-U, 25-V, 26-W, 27-X, 28-Y, 29-Z., 29 LETTERS AS I ORIGINALLY STATED THAT THE MEXICAN ALPHABET HAD 3 MORE LETTERS THAN THE ANGLO ALPHABET, NOT 30, NOR 31, BUT "ONLY 29"., So I'll wait for a reply Alonso.

I just looked up Mexican Alphabet, and it seems that they do include "Ch" as the 4 letter, if that is true, then "M" would be the 14th letter, not the 13th.

[HungryWolf]

I heard lotsa stuff about the number 13. Concerning the Mexicans it means Sureno for sure. But it could also stand for "Always Cholo" (1st and 3rd letter of the alphabet), eMe and whatnot.

Concerning bikers it would simple mean Marihuana or "13 steps to the gallows". Which means someone would rather walk the 13 steps to the gallows than to betray a brother.

[alexalonso]

I heard lotsa stuff about the number 13. Concerning the Mexicans it means Sureno for sure. But it could also stand for "Always Cholo" (1st and 3rd letter of the alphabet), eMe and whatnot.

Concerning bikers it would simple mean Marihuana or "13 steps to the gallows". Which means someone would rather walk the 13 steps to the gallows than to betray a brother.

If the 13 was used way before Eme was even established, so it meaning allegence to them is incorrect.

[MMRbkaRudog]

I heard lotsa stuff about the number 13. Concerning the Mexicans it means Sureno for sure. But it could also stand for "Always Cholo" (1st and 3rd letter of the alphabet), eMe and whatnot.

Concerning bikers it would simple mean Marihuana or "13 steps to the gallows". Which means someone would rather walk the 13 steps to the gallows than to betray a brother.

If the 13 was used way before Eme was even established, so it meaning allegence to them is incorrect.

If they want to use it for that, then they use it for that.

[alexalonso]

I heard lotsa stuff about the number 13. Concerning the Mexicans it means Sureno for sure. But it could also stand for "Always Cholo" (1st and 3rd letter of the alphabet), eMe and whatnot.

Concerning bikers it would simple mean Marihuana or "13 steps to the gallows". Which means someone would rather walk the 13 steps to the gallows than to betray a brother.

If the 13 was used way before Eme was even established, so it meaning allegence to them is incorrect.

If they want to use it for that, then they use it for that.

La Eme hi-jacked the meaning of 13 which was originally Marijuana. Then it went to meaning Surenos or South Sider to La Eme.

[MMRbkaRudog]

I heard lotsa stuff about the number 13. Concerning the Mexicans it means Sureno for sure. But it could also stand for "Always Cholo" (1st and 3rd letter of the alphabet), eMe and whatnot.

Concerning bikers it would simple mean Marihuana or "13 steps to the gallows". Which means someone would rather walk the 13 steps to the gallows than to betray a brother.

If the 13 was used way before Eme was even established, so it meaning allegence to them is incorrect.

If they want to use it for that, then they use it for that.

La Eme hi-jacked the meaning of 13 which was originally Marijuana. Then it went to meaning Surenos or South Sider to La Eme.

OBVIOUSLY, JUST LIKE HOW THEY HI-JACKED 3 DOTS N WHATEVER ELSE THEY WANT TO TRY N TAKE CREDIT FOR.

[alexalonso]

I was reading an appeal by an inmate and there was this incorrect reference to the meaning of 13 in it.

...Cruz sustained multiple deep puncture wounds, mostly to his chest and back. He
bled profusely from the wounds, making a puddle of blood inside his boxer shorts.
Nurses and paramedics were summoned. The first nurse to arrive at the scene determined
that he was in critical condition because of the blood loss and treated him to staunch the
flow of blood and prevent him from becoming unconscious or going into shock. He was
taken on a gurney to the jailhouse clinic and from there to the emergency room of a
hospital where he received further treatment.

Cruz, whose moniker was "Moreno," was a member of the Cypress clique of the
predominately Hispanic Avenues Street (Avenues) gang. Appellant, whose moniker was
"Shadow" or "Shakey," was a member of another Hispanic street gang known as Krazy
Ass Mexicans ("KAM" or "Kamsters"). On appellant's right arm was the tattoo "13,"
which reflected his allegiance to the Mexican Mafia. "M" is the 13th letter of the
alphabet, and a "13" tattoo was one way for a Hispanic gang member to identify himself
as a dedicated Mexican Mafia gang member.

Sergeant Richard Valdemar, who was assigned to the major crimes bureau of the
sheriff's department, supervising the prison gang section, testified about the activities of
the Mexican Mafia. He explained that the Mexican Mafia is both a prison gang and a
criminal street gang, formed in 1956, and operating in prisons and jails. The Mexican
Mafia controlled the activities of Southern California Hispanic criminal street gangs ...

Are they putting extras on it for real?

[AztecNinja]

WOW that sucks, poor kid got validated and he probably never even seen a big homie in his life, NOT COOL!

[alexalonso]

WOW that sucks, poor kid got validated and he probably never even seen a big homie in his life, NOT COOL!

I am seeing this alot now, any young Hispanic that gets arrested for a crime and has a gang tattoo with the 13 will get exploited in this manner. It is not difficult for a cop to come into open court and say that the gang member is a soldier for the Mexican Mafia because he has a 13 on him. It is so wrong but they make it sound so convincing to the average jury, and it is that type of information that will get the conviction, not the evidence.

[AztecNinja]

If someone had a SUR on thm then Ok I guess I can see a concern, but 13 is a strong part of Chicano culture as whole even besides gangbanging half these kids think its cool and dont understnd the repracussions, especcially with this witch hunt mentality to link everyone to organized crime. I was jut at the gas station over here in the Townsmen Varrio in LP and saw some tatted up white boy with 13 big on his arm, It kinda tripped me out. But i highly doubt he was anybody but he still could gt validated with a mixed up interpatation.

[alexalonso]

If someone had a SUR on thm then Ok I guess I can see a concern, but 13 is a strong part of Chicano culture as whole even besides gangbanging half these kids think its cool and dont understnd the repracussions, especcially with this witch hunt mentality to link everyone to organized crime. I was jut at the gas station over here in the Townsmen Varrio in LP and saw some tatted up white boy with 13 big on his arm, It kinda tripped me out. But i highly doubt he was anybody but he still could gt validated with a mixed up interpatation.

No, I Sur and 13 is the same thing. There is actually a gang on Broadway and 79th Street called "Sur 13" - they are such a small time neighborhood, but if they ever were in court, the police are going to testify to so many lies that these guys would never know what hit them.

[xxx]

13 roots are more geared towards Stoners Tokers Marijuana users White & Mexican. It's meaning has evolved over time but that's the root of it.

White and Mexican Stoners used the 13.

Even the black trendy gangs used 13 in there graffiti strikes. Pozerz 13, K.O.D 13, SEx Jerks 13, etc...

S.U.R = SOUTHERN UNITY RAZA, my understanding is it sprung out of the CALIFORNIA YOUTH AUTHORITY. The Chicanos/ Chokos from Southern CAlifornia band together as a protection mechanism towards other racial groups and Chicanos from up North.

Now a days S.U.R/ SURENOS/13/SOUTH SIDERS are all interchangeable. The line is blurry.

[alexalonso]

13 roots are more geared towards Stoners Tokers Marijuana users White & Mexican. It's meaning has evolved over time but that's the root of it.

White and Mexican Stoners used the 13.

Even the black trendy gangs used 13 in there graffiti strikes. Pozerz 13, K.O.D 13, SEx Jerks 13, etc...

S.U.R = SOUTHERN UNITY RAZA, my understanding is it sprung out of the CALIFORNIA YOUTH AUTHORITY. The Chicanos/ Chokos from Southern CAlifornia band together as a protection mechanism towards other racial groups and Chicanos from up North.

Now a days S.U.R/ SURENOS/13/SOUTH SIDERS are all interchangeable. The line is blurry.

I think you actually nailed it, the interchangability and the blurry lines. ALso very few people remember when whites used the 13.

[bgcasper]

biker gang and old school new york gangs used the 13 also 13 is a mystical number french say its bad lucc some say the reverse

[MARTINEZ]

Alonso

How come I can only print certain threads and not others?
It’s just the printable format is much easier and quicker to read … hook me up.
Anyway I just read the last page for the reason I stated

......

But no matter what anybody else says:

The original number 13 did not stand for M for Maravilla (smoking crack!) …

it didn’t even stand for eMe as in “we're aligned with the Mexican Mafia” … nope

The original 13 or X3 or X111 stood for most basic and simplest reasons of all: Marijuano aka Stoner, even though it was long before the East Los ~ Stoner generation, Loquero (drug user), it meant Vato Loco, Crazy dude, the Rebel , going against the grain, making something that’s supposed to “Bad” the 13 ~ into something that was “Bad Ass”, thus the bad ass gang member or Cholos would use it

Even though some non-gang members also used 13 to describe themselves as being Crazy Marijuano

there were so many varrios that started using 13 as part of their varrio name,
that after many generations of Southern Mexicans doing time, that it then became synonymous with the SUR varrios



now .. the Norteños chose the 14 specifically to contradict the 13 and obviously they did chose the 14 because of the letter N


feel me?

.