for those of you that can read spanish, I took the time to translate and revise this short history of the East Side history. I hope it goes firme.
EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
EAST LOS TRADICIONALMENTE HA SIDO EL CORAZON DE LA COMUNIDAD MEJICANA EN LOS ANGELES. MEJICANOS SIEMPRE HAN CANTONEADO ALLI DESDE LOS TIEMPOS CUANDO CALIFAS ERA PARTE DE MEJICO.EN TODAS PARTES DEL CONDADO, SE ENCUENTRAN COMUNIDADES CON UN FIRME HISTORIAL MEJICANO, ASI COMO SAN GABRIEL, SAN FERNANDO, EL MONTE, PACOIMA, SAN PEDRO, CANOGA PARK, HAWAIIAN GARDENS Y MUCHOS MAS; PERO EL ESTE DE LOS CONTIENE LA MAYOR CONGLEMERACION URBANA DE MEJICANOS. ASI TAMBIEN ES LA REGION MAS DENSA DE PANDILLAS EN TODO LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS. CONTIENE ALREDEDOR DE UNAS 200 PANDILLAS EN UN RADIUS DE UNAS 10 MILLAS.
LAS GANGAS MEJICANAS DE HOY DIA, NACIERON DEL FENOMENO DE LOS "PACHUCOS" LOS CUALES SE VESTIAN CON GRANDES TRAJES Y PANTALONES AGUADOS QUE SE ENTUBABAN HACIA LOS PIES, CON UNA GRAN CADENA DESLIZANDOSE DESDE EL CINTURON ARQUEANDOSE EN FORMA DE 'U' HASTA REGRESAR AL BOLSILLO. LOS TRAJES ERAN DE TELA FINA Y CON COLORES BRILLANTES. ZAPATOS PUNTIAGUDOS Y TANDOS REDONDEADOS EN LA PARTE SUPERIOR.
LOS PACHUCOS VIVIAN BAJO UN RIGIDO CODIGO DE HONOR Y RESPETO. SE ORGANIZABAN EN "CLUBS" CON INICIACIONES RITUALISTICAS. EL METODO DE "BRINCAR" A UN NUEVO MIEMBRO AL CLUB, SE CONVIRTIO EN LA INICIACION UNIVERSAL PARA ESTOS CLUBS. ESTOS CLUBS TUVIERON SU COMIENZO COMO GRUPOS MUY UNIDOS Y ERAN CONSIDERADOS COMO UNA SEGUNDA FAMILIA. PARA MUCHOS CON PROBLEMAS FAMILIARES, ESTOS CLUBS LLEGARON A SER SU UNICA FAMILIA, PUES EXISTIA UN GRAN HUECO CULTURAL ENTRE ESTAS GENERACIONES DE MEJICO-AMERICANOS Y SUS PADRES, SIENDO ESTE VACIO UNA DE LAS RAZONES PRIMORDIALES DE LA CREACION DE TALES CLUBS.
CON EL PASO DEL TIEMPO, ESTOS CLUBS COMENZARON A OBTENER MAYOR POPULARIDAD ENTRE LA JUVENTUD, Y COMO TODOS LOS JOVENES TENIAN SUS PLEITOS. ERA DE LEY QUE LAS BRONCAS FUERAN DE UNO A UNO-MANO A MANO, Y UNA VEZ TERMINADA LA PELEA, EL PROBLEMA QUEDABA RESUELTO. ALGUNOS CLUBS ENGRANDECIERON LOS PLEITOS FUERA DE PROPORCION Y COMENZARON LAS RIVALIDADES AMARGAS. AL PRINCIPIO ESTOS DESACUERDOS ERAN CONSEQUENCIA DE HONOR SOBRE SUS "RUCAS", OTRAS VECES ERAN SOBRE POPULARIDAD ASI COMO QUIEN TENIA LA MAS FIRME CARRUCHA, QUIEN VESTIA LOS MEJORES TRAMOS, O QUIEN ERA EL MAS CHINGON A LOS MADRAZOS. DE VEZ EN CUANDO EL PLEITO ERA REGIONAL, VATOS DE UN LADO SE BURLABAN DEL ESTYLO DE LOS DEL OTRO LADO Y ASI COMENZABAN LAS BRONCAS.
LO QUE CAMBIO LA CARA DEL PACHUQUISMO FUERON LAS DROGAS Y LOS CUETES, LOS CUALES TUVIERON SU INTRODUCION DURANTE LA GUERRA DE VIET NAM. PUES ESTA ERA UNA EPOCA MUY MILITANTE EN TODO ESTADOS UNIDOS Y EN TODAS LAS RAZAS EN EL. MUCHOS GRUPOS DE ORGULLO MEJICANO NACIERON Y SE EVOLUZIONARON EN GANGAS. HABIA VATOS QUE REGRESABAN DE LA GUERRA CON EL DEDO GATILLERO BIEN PUESTO, Y UNA VEZ QUE EL QUEBRAR AL ENEMIGO LLEGO A SER ACEPTABLE ENTRE LAS GANGAS, EL CHOLO DE HOY TUVO SU NACIMIENTO. AVENTANDO MARIGUANA Y CARGANDO UN CUETE LLEGO A SER LA NORMA DE OPERAR EN LAS CALLES.
LA INTRODUCION DEL COCAINA, POLVO DE ANGEL, HEROINA Y OTRAS DROGAS MAS, APRESURO EL PASO HACIA LA VIOLENCIA ENTRE LOS BARRIOS. ESTOS MISMOS COMENZARON A PRODUCIR GRANDES CANTIDADES DE FERIA EN LA VENTA DE DROGAS. Y EN TODO ESTE TIEMPO QUE SE DESAROLLABA EL COMERCIO DE LAS DROGAS, NUEVAS GANGAS ERAN CREADAS Y USURPABAN A LOS VIEJOS BARRIOS. EN CUANTO UNA PANDILLA ERA BARRIDA O ARRAZADA POR LA PLACA, NO TARDABA EN QUE UNA NUEVA NACIA EN SU LUGAR. DESPUES LOS MIEMBROS DE LA ORIGINAL CUANDO SALIAN DE LA TORCIDA, PELEABAN POR RECOBRAR SU BARRIO. ALGUNAS GANGAS ERAN TAN ODIADAS EN SUS PROPIOS BARRIOS QUE NADIE QUERIA INGRESAR A SUS FILAS, SIN EMBARGO INGRESABAN A OTRAS GANGAS O CREABAN UNA NUEVA PARA PROTECION O POR CONVENENCIA. ASI PASASARON LAS COSAS POR UNAS TRES DECADAS.
EL HONOR DE SER EL BARRIO MAS VIEJO DE EAST LOS ES DISPUTADO ENTRE WHITE FENCE - CERCO BLANCO Y EL HOYO MARAVILLA, LA CUAL UNOS ASEGURAN QUE AL PRINCIPIO ERA SOLAMENTE MARAVILLA Y EL HOYO FUE AGREGADO AL NOMBRE DEL BARRIO UN TIEMPO DESPUES CON EL NACIMIENTO DE OTRAS CLIKAS DE MARAVILLA. EL TERRITORIO DE MARAVILLA CUBRIA LA PROPIA COMMUNIDAD DEL ESTE DE LOS ANGELES, Y EL SUR-ESTE HASTA EL RIO HONDO, Y SUR-CENTRAL HASTA LA AVENIDA SLAUSON. WHITE FENCE CUBRIA EL AREA DE BOYLE HEIGHTS Y EL NOR-ESTE DE LOS. AMBOS BARRIOS TENIAN CLIKAS EN EL VALLE DE SAN GABRIEL. ESTOS DOS BARRIOS SON LA CLASICA RIVALIDAD Y QUIZAS LA MAS ANTIGUA DE TODO LOS ANGELES. LOS DOS BARRIOS HAN PERDIDO EXTENSIVAMENTE LA MAYOR PARTE DE SU TERRITORIO AL PASAR DEL TIEMPO, Y SON UNAS MINIATURAS EN COMPARACION A SU GLORIA DE VIEJOS TIEMPOS, SIM EMBARGO EN TERMINOS DE NUMEROS Y NOTORIEDAD SON MAS GRANDES QUE NUNCA. LAS MARAVILLAS CONTINUANDO SU DOMINIO EN EL ESTE, Y WHITE FENCE EXTENDIENDOSE HACIA HOLLYWOOD, BELL GARDENS, ALHAMBRA Y ECHO PARK, MANTENIENDOSE FIRME EN BOYLE HTS.
SE DICE QUE LA HAZARD GRANDE, LAS AVENIDAS, PUEBLO RANA Y TOONERVILLE FUERON CLIKAS DE WHITE FENCE QUE SE SEPARARON DEL BARRIO PARA FORMAR SU PROPIO. ASI MISMO MIEMBROS DE WHITE FENCE AFIRMAN DE QUE MUCHOS MAS BARRIOS DE HOY DIA FUERON EX-CLIKAS DE WF. PRIMERA FLATS, CUATRO FLATS, TORTILLA FLATS, VARRIO NUEVO ESTRADA, 38 STREET, Y MICHIGAN CRIMINAL FORCE SURGIERON EN EL AREA DEL ESTE EN DONDE MARAVILLA BRILLABA DE NOCHE Y DE DIA.
NELA / NOR-ESTE LOS ANGELES ES OTRA AREA VIEJA DE BARRIOS MEJICANOS. UNO DE SUS MAS FAMOSOS BARRIOS ES "LAS AVENIDAS - THE AVENUES", EL CUAL OBTIENE SU NOMBRE POR LAS AVENIDAS NUMERADAS QUE CRUZAN LA CALLE FIGUEROA. LOS AVENUES SON CONSIDERADOS DOS O MAS BARRIOS QUE CONSISTEN EN LOS CYPRESS AVENUES Y LOS 43RD AVENUES PRINCIPALMENTE. LOS DOS BARRIOS AL PRINCIPIO NO SE LLEVABAN PERO DESPUES SE UNIERON POR CONVENECIA PUESTO QUE TIENEN ENEMIGOS EN COMUN, SIN EMBARGO MANTIENEN CIERTA INDEPENDENCIA LOS UNOS DE LOS OTROS. SE ALEGA QUE 43RD AVES SE DIVORCIO DE LA HAZARD GRANDE CREANDO SU PROPIA GANGA, Y DE QUE LO MISMO HIZO LOS CYPRESS AVENUES SEPARANDOSE DE PUEBLO RANA, PERO AQUI ENTRA EN JUEGO OTRO BARRIO MAS "TOONERVILLE" DE QUIEN SE DICE QUE ORIGINO A PUEBLO RANA, PERO OTROS DICEN LO CONTRARIO DE QUE PUEBLO RANA ORIGINO A TOONERVILLE. LA MAYORIA ACUERDA DE QUE WHITE FENCE LOS ENGENDRO A TODOS.
LOS BARRIOS DEL ESTE DE LOS ANGELES MANTIENEN A CIERTO NIVEL SU ORIGINALIDAD Y TRADICIONES DE VIEJOS TIEMPOS, AUNQUE EL OLEAJE DE LOS NUEVOS TIEMPOS ES DIFICIL DE DETENER. BARRIOS DE EAST LOS SE CREEN SUPERIOR EN CULTURA Y HONOR CON RESPECTO A LOS BARRIOS Y GANGAS DEL LADO OESTE DE LOS ANGELES. SIENDO ESTA OTRA CAUSA MAS DE GUERRA ENTRE LOS BARRIOS.
ES MUY DIFICIL ACERTAR UN LUGAR Y TIEMPO EN EL CUAL SURGIO EL PRINCIPIO DE CADA BARRIO EN EAST LOS, PERO MUCHOS DE ESTOS POR LO MENOS CONOCEN EL AñO QUE COMENZARON SU BARRIO, Y EN EL ESTE DE LOS ANGELES, SI UNA GANGA NO TIENE POR LO MENOS CUATRO GENERACIONES DE ANTIGUEDAD, ENTONCES ES CONSIDERADO SOLO UN MODAJE QUE PRONTO PASARA Y DEJARA DE SER.
EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
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BIG DUSTY LOCO
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Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Took me a minute to go through that. Interesting and thank you for the post. I've always thought of the Eastsiders as the originators, the one's who started it all. But I'm a Westsider (lol) at heart, my question to you is what are the Eastsider's opinion of the West? I know we kind of took it and ran it into the ground, we did a lot of things that the Eastside never did. I'm not saying we're any better or tougher, but when it started getting crazy out here, gangbanging was never the same. Or is it just a younger generation type thing, where most of the veteranos came to start varrios, but either got locked up and/or twisted on some stuff, which left all the kids to their imaginations and free will?
Keep bringing these Eastside stories...damn my uncles be telling me about all the firme vatos they knew from White Fence, Primera Flats, etc...They all went to Belmont and partied with everybody...LOL
Keep bringing these Eastside stories...damn my uncles be telling me about all the firme vatos they knew from White Fence, Primera Flats, etc...They all went to Belmont and partied with everybody...LOL
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Lonewolf
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Question from BIG DUSTY LOCO to Lonewolf.
WHAT IS THE EASTSIDERS OPINION OF THE WESTSIDERS?
LONEWOLF's reply:
I will speak only on behalf of my old fools from NELA by giving you a little background on my Barrio.
In the olden days, our Barrio was kept free from vandalism, burglaries, attacks on its residents, and drug dealing in the streets. To this day it is still semi-free from these happenings. That is not to say that there is no drug dealing, but is not in the streets and it is not a drive thru. The burglaries that do occur are not committed by the Homies, and the vandalism is frowned upon.
The Barrio has never been free of the gang violence, quite the opposite, a lot of the time it was like a war zone, and many times the shooting would go on for long periods of time, real battles, not no quick drive by like today. When LAPD showed up, it would be in full force with SWAT teams to flush the Homies out, and up to 3-4 ghetto birds to light up the whole Barrio. Ambulances will pick up the victims - some sad to say caught in the crossfire - real ugly scenes to gape on.
The difference with the Westsiders or Southsiders for that matter, was in the style of warfare, how it followed a series of steps before it escalated into full blown war with anyone including traditional enemies. In the East Side, at least in my Barrio as well as others that I'm familiar with, the series of steps was a deliberate measure of control by keeping it limited, and marked-for-death-free until some idiot crossed the line and blood was spilled, and even then a gang meeting would be required to decide the next step. It could be decided to go all out, limiting the response to only the culprits, de-escalating the beef if our Homies f-cked up, maybe leaving it to the youngsters or even calling for a truce.
On the other hand the Westsiders would always be on the move, and would not hesitate to start shit, by crossing out, throwing up your sign, or simply jumping on people just for the funk of it wherever they set foot. Most of those big brand name Barrios had no respect at all for quiet lil Barrios, they would look down on them, and consider them weak because of their lack of enthusiasm for war. They were always trying to be the baddest, and would not take the time to get to know people. Many of the Old East Side Barrios fall in this category of small quiet lil Barrios where everyone knows everybody.
In my Barrio, all the jefitas would come out in the evenings to water the lawns and bs with each other, the lil carnalitos were protected by the Homies, if some were school boys we encouraged them and drew a line for them not to try and kick it with us, and sent them on their way. We did'nt break into cars or homes, and we kept a watch for outsiders coming into our streets. The graffiti was mostly kept on the outskirts of our borders, never on the walls of the pads. Familias and non-combatants were respected for the most part. One time when one of my primos from CP Boys came to my pad, the Homies came by and recognized him as an enemy combatant, they asked if he would go toe to toe with one of them but I declined since unforeseen shit can happen. My Homies let it be, and allowed for him to stay and exit in peace out of respect for the family and myself.
Oldies, slow jams, crusin' tunes, mellow rhythms was what we listened to most of the time, nothing to get us all hyped up on the "G" nonsense that would start us in a rampage.
We disciplined ourselves, and with the discipline came "no busters", that was not to say that all the Homies were hard, only that they would not rank out. We kept a watch on our Barrio, and we had a system in place that would alert us real quick when unknown headlights came into our streets and gave us time to prep up, unfortunaly is was not always foolproof especially during daylight hours.
Organized sh-t for the most part, no lose canons.
We were always few in numbers in comparison to some of the surrounding Barrios or other old Barrios, because of this and with the mass migration of the 70's that brought in a lot of new arrivals that did not share the same nostalgic feelings for "TRUE BARRIO LIFE" a lot of new ways took root amongst the younger generation coming up in our streets. Mayates started moving in, as well as people that went apartment hoppin' "town claimers" and money-makers dealing to anyone anywhere. Homies going in and doing time, and others like in the old "true Homie" ways, would pull a jale to get busted and back up those inside. Older more in-tune Homies moving out to better homes for their familias. All this created a vacum, and the new ways were hard to restrain.
All out war broke out with the Mayates, the law became that for each 1 of ours that went down, we would take 3 of theirs. Out of this a lot of Homies got over crazy and over zealous of the Barrio and started creating too much funk all over the place. Other Homies that moved into other Hoods would start to clique up people that were not 100% loyal, and those people created more problems for us because of the enemies they already had in their respective neighborhoods.
Gangster music as well as PCP, LSD & HEROIN started replacing the mellow ways, and YESCA, PEYOTE & HASH took a secondary role amongst the Homies.
Armory break-ins brought a ton of feria to the Barrio, becoming a supplier to Barrios like Big Hazard & Primera Flats. Crazy crazy times the 70's, spinning way out of control too quickly. All this was foreign to us that were still reminiscing, we pulled ourselves together and started cleaning up, 1st the Mayates, then all those not down 100% with the Barrio, initiated out all those problem child's, enforced the olden rules a putazos, we went as far as painting over graffiti covered walls in a beautification process.
We re-established some dialogue with old allies, at least in the upper echelons, because their younger generation was also too far gone with too much hatred. We went back to keeping within our borders and respecting those that allowed us in to party. We however still had many issues with a lot of others, funk with big Barrios such as White Fence, El Sereno, Eighteen ST, to name a few.
A lot of the Homies were unhappy to a degree with these olden ways, saying in the meetings that we were looked down upon as weak, but we had heard this arguments before, and cooler heads prevailed. The response from the Veteranos was that our enemies "knew who we were" and how quickly we could drop caskets on them if they focked with us.
We couldn't however, bring ourselves to relinquish those territories that we had aquired during our expansion era, for that would really send the wrong message, but along with those territories we lost some allies and made some life long enemies as well.
The "G" trend has slowly but surely been regaining momentum in the Barrio, unfortunaly I do not believe the old ways will hold up this time. Most of us viejos are far from the Barrio, and old gizzards like me, are too preoccupied with making ends meet, with no heart left for the nonsense. DNA, 3rd strike, family, age, pop culture, computer record keeping, and so many other things, have left us only with our memorias to become abuelitos, telling stories to our youngsters about how it was and how it will never be again.
You ask what us East Siders have against the West Siders, it is very simple, in our minds the Westsiders took "BARRIO LIFE and turned it in to GANGSTER LIFE". Maybe because of its proximity with the South Side, and mixing it up always with other races, lacking true fixed territories to call their Barrio, maybe because the West Side having had heavier numbers in migration that had not endured the racial discrimination and tensions that bonded the older Hispanic communities. Maybe because these new arrivals could not comprehend the un-written rules of warfare amongst the Barrios. A lot of these newbies terrorized and victimized their own residents (unheard of in the E S Barrios), and took the level of violence up another notch. I don't know man, a combination of all sorts of reasons I suppose.
But take a ride with some old fools from the East Side, and if only one thing rings out "it would be their mellow ways".
Signed,
LONEWOLF.
WHAT IS THE EASTSIDERS OPINION OF THE WESTSIDERS?
LONEWOLF's reply:
I will speak only on behalf of my old fools from NELA by giving you a little background on my Barrio.
In the olden days, our Barrio was kept free from vandalism, burglaries, attacks on its residents, and drug dealing in the streets. To this day it is still semi-free from these happenings. That is not to say that there is no drug dealing, but is not in the streets and it is not a drive thru. The burglaries that do occur are not committed by the Homies, and the vandalism is frowned upon.
The Barrio has never been free of the gang violence, quite the opposite, a lot of the time it was like a war zone, and many times the shooting would go on for long periods of time, real battles, not no quick drive by like today. When LAPD showed up, it would be in full force with SWAT teams to flush the Homies out, and up to 3-4 ghetto birds to light up the whole Barrio. Ambulances will pick up the victims - some sad to say caught in the crossfire - real ugly scenes to gape on.
The difference with the Westsiders or Southsiders for that matter, was in the style of warfare, how it followed a series of steps before it escalated into full blown war with anyone including traditional enemies. In the East Side, at least in my Barrio as well as others that I'm familiar with, the series of steps was a deliberate measure of control by keeping it limited, and marked-for-death-free until some idiot crossed the line and blood was spilled, and even then a gang meeting would be required to decide the next step. It could be decided to go all out, limiting the response to only the culprits, de-escalating the beef if our Homies f-cked up, maybe leaving it to the youngsters or even calling for a truce.
On the other hand the Westsiders would always be on the move, and would not hesitate to start shit, by crossing out, throwing up your sign, or simply jumping on people just for the funk of it wherever they set foot. Most of those big brand name Barrios had no respect at all for quiet lil Barrios, they would look down on them, and consider them weak because of their lack of enthusiasm for war. They were always trying to be the baddest, and would not take the time to get to know people. Many of the Old East Side Barrios fall in this category of small quiet lil Barrios where everyone knows everybody.
In my Barrio, all the jefitas would come out in the evenings to water the lawns and bs with each other, the lil carnalitos were protected by the Homies, if some were school boys we encouraged them and drew a line for them not to try and kick it with us, and sent them on their way. We did'nt break into cars or homes, and we kept a watch for outsiders coming into our streets. The graffiti was mostly kept on the outskirts of our borders, never on the walls of the pads. Familias and non-combatants were respected for the most part. One time when one of my primos from CP Boys came to my pad, the Homies came by and recognized him as an enemy combatant, they asked if he would go toe to toe with one of them but I declined since unforeseen shit can happen. My Homies let it be, and allowed for him to stay and exit in peace out of respect for the family and myself.
Oldies, slow jams, crusin' tunes, mellow rhythms was what we listened to most of the time, nothing to get us all hyped up on the "G" nonsense that would start us in a rampage.
We disciplined ourselves, and with the discipline came "no busters", that was not to say that all the Homies were hard, only that they would not rank out. We kept a watch on our Barrio, and we had a system in place that would alert us real quick when unknown headlights came into our streets and gave us time to prep up, unfortunaly is was not always foolproof especially during daylight hours.
Organized sh-t for the most part, no lose canons.
We were always few in numbers in comparison to some of the surrounding Barrios or other old Barrios, because of this and with the mass migration of the 70's that brought in a lot of new arrivals that did not share the same nostalgic feelings for "TRUE BARRIO LIFE" a lot of new ways took root amongst the younger generation coming up in our streets. Mayates started moving in, as well as people that went apartment hoppin' "town claimers" and money-makers dealing to anyone anywhere. Homies going in and doing time, and others like in the old "true Homie" ways, would pull a jale to get busted and back up those inside. Older more in-tune Homies moving out to better homes for their familias. All this created a vacum, and the new ways were hard to restrain.
All out war broke out with the Mayates, the law became that for each 1 of ours that went down, we would take 3 of theirs. Out of this a lot of Homies got over crazy and over zealous of the Barrio and started creating too much funk all over the place. Other Homies that moved into other Hoods would start to clique up people that were not 100% loyal, and those people created more problems for us because of the enemies they already had in their respective neighborhoods.
Gangster music as well as PCP, LSD & HEROIN started replacing the mellow ways, and YESCA, PEYOTE & HASH took a secondary role amongst the Homies.
Armory break-ins brought a ton of feria to the Barrio, becoming a supplier to Barrios like Big Hazard & Primera Flats. Crazy crazy times the 70's, spinning way out of control too quickly. All this was foreign to us that were still reminiscing, we pulled ourselves together and started cleaning up, 1st the Mayates, then all those not down 100% with the Barrio, initiated out all those problem child's, enforced the olden rules a putazos, we went as far as painting over graffiti covered walls in a beautification process.
We re-established some dialogue with old allies, at least in the upper echelons, because their younger generation was also too far gone with too much hatred. We went back to keeping within our borders and respecting those that allowed us in to party. We however still had many issues with a lot of others, funk with big Barrios such as White Fence, El Sereno, Eighteen ST, to name a few.
A lot of the Homies were unhappy to a degree with these olden ways, saying in the meetings that we were looked down upon as weak, but we had heard this arguments before, and cooler heads prevailed. The response from the Veteranos was that our enemies "knew who we were" and how quickly we could drop caskets on them if they focked with us.
We couldn't however, bring ourselves to relinquish those territories that we had aquired during our expansion era, for that would really send the wrong message, but along with those territories we lost some allies and made some life long enemies as well.
The "G" trend has slowly but surely been regaining momentum in the Barrio, unfortunaly I do not believe the old ways will hold up this time. Most of us viejos are far from the Barrio, and old gizzards like me, are too preoccupied with making ends meet, with no heart left for the nonsense. DNA, 3rd strike, family, age, pop culture, computer record keeping, and so many other things, have left us only with our memorias to become abuelitos, telling stories to our youngsters about how it was and how it will never be again.
You ask what us East Siders have against the West Siders, it is very simple, in our minds the Westsiders took "BARRIO LIFE and turned it in to GANGSTER LIFE". Maybe because of its proximity with the South Side, and mixing it up always with other races, lacking true fixed territories to call their Barrio, maybe because the West Side having had heavier numbers in migration that had not endured the racial discrimination and tensions that bonded the older Hispanic communities. Maybe because these new arrivals could not comprehend the un-written rules of warfare amongst the Barrios. A lot of these newbies terrorized and victimized their own residents (unheard of in the E S Barrios), and took the level of violence up another notch. I don't know man, a combination of all sorts of reasons I suppose.
But take a ride with some old fools from the East Side, and if only one thing rings out "it would be their mellow ways".
Signed,
LONEWOLF.
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BIG DUSTY LOCO
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
^^^Interesting to say the least. It all got twisted so fast, really fast.
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Lonewolf
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
What do you mean Homie?BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:^^^Interesting to say the least. It all got twisted so fast, really fast.
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BIG DUSTY LOCO
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
The origins and traditions of the Eastside, versus the "newer" mentality and traditions of the Westside...TWO very different ideas/ways of going about things. Much has changed from what the Eastside had started, and how it contrasts with the Westside. And it didn't take very long for us in the Westside to really get out of control. I think our generations or clicks here on the west become antagonistic towards our own clicks in our own hoods. You always hear of in-fighting with Westside hoods. But the Eastside hoods have stood time and are still solid. I rolled down Olympic Blvd...from Atlantic to downtown...still the same hoods.lonewolf wrote:What do you mean Homie?BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:^^^Interesting to say the least. It all got twisted so fast, really fast.
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Lonewolf
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
That is precicely my point, for the most part fixed territories that don't change much. With few exceptions, you don't hear of East Side this, South Side that, or West Side this, for the traditional LIL BARRIOS.
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ROLLIN' el Heavy
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Re: EAT LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Quick comments. Most of the East Side hoods are like family. Not saying that doesn't happen on the West Side but to give an explanation. Eastsiders normally don't click together for feria or drogas. It's like this, are you more likely to ride til the end for your momz, aunts, uncles, cousins OR for a couple bucks? In ES varrios, everybody knows everybody. I could walk into anybody's yard in my neighborhood and the residents would know either me or my relatives. It has been like that for generations.BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:The origins and traditions of the Eastside, versus the "newer" mentality and traditions of the Westside...TWO very different ideas/ways of going about things. Much has changed from what the Eastside had started, and how it contrasts with the Westside. And it didn't take very long for us in the Westside to really get out of control. I think our generations or clicks here on the west become antagonistic towards our own clicks in our own hoods. You always hear of in-fighting with Westside hoods. But the Eastside hoods have stood time and are still solid. I rolled down Olympic Blvd...from Atlantic to downtown...still the same hoods.lonewolf wrote:What do you mean Homie?BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:^^^Interesting to say the least. It all got twisted so fast, really fast.
Peace!
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BIG DUSTY LOCO
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- Joined: June 12th, 2003, 10:26 am
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Yeah, I sensed that whole deal from knowing a few Eastsiders. The Wicked Westside got it all f-ed up, we have family members in different varrios and yes money has gotten in the way of the neighborhood. C14st lost some of their hoods to other varrios, and the varrios that came after them have now lost or in transition to losing their varrios too. Money became the almighty tradition, with dudes selling out their souls for a few quick bucks. All it resulted in was cats losing their property/homes, and chasing the buck around. Not too many hoods I can say that have kept it. Playboys still Fedora. Echo Park still in Echo Park. Temple Street still on Temple.
But with with even the smallest varrios on the Eastside still being active on their block or blocks, there are still some who have lost their hoods and membership. What ever happened to EastLA13Dks? Clarence Street? Plus EastLos has stayed predominantly Mexican/Chicano, unlike the Westside where a lot of Centro's have "taken" over. I noticed some Westside chicano veteranos have moved to the Eastside, where it's more "safer" or "calmer" from the Westside. I'm not saying it's crazier here, but they say it's a respect thing that they don't need to watch their backs when their with family on the Eastside.
But with with even the smallest varrios on the Eastside still being active on their block or blocks, there are still some who have lost their hoods and membership. What ever happened to EastLA13Dks? Clarence Street? Plus EastLos has stayed predominantly Mexican/Chicano, unlike the Westside where a lot of Centro's have "taken" over. I noticed some Westside chicano veteranos have moved to the Eastside, where it's more "safer" or "calmer" from the Westside. I'm not saying it's crazier here, but they say it's a respect thing that they don't need to watch their backs when their with family on the Eastside.
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Lonewolf
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Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
CHICANO GANG MEMBERS
When people talk about gangs in Southern California, they usually think young Black men - Bloods & Crips. But the typical gang member is not a B or C. He is not confined to South Central L.A. He lives in places like Wilmington and Pomona and Santa Ana and Norwalk and Canoga Park and East Los Angeles.
He is heir to a warrior tradition of struggle and clannish violence that stretches back to the first half of the 20th century.
Obscured by the nationwide public attention that has been paid to L.A's. black gangs - is the fact that Chicano gang members outnumber at least 2 to 1 the Black gang members in L.A. County.
L.A. County's Chicano gangs are deeply rooted in their respective communities, and have existed for a long time. Traditionally, many older Chicano gangs have distinct subdivisions called cliques, segregated by either age or geography; these create a social network amongst the gang. In such gangs when a group of youngsters want to join or create their own clique, they ask permission from the gang veterans. In one East Los Angeles gang alone for example (White Fence), there's a chronological 17 cliques, each a formal generational layer, each with a separate name and membership that came to form part of the gang one after another since 1935.
Despite this longevity, Chicano gangs have been easy to overlook in recent years.
For one thing, deaths from their disputes have plunged dramatically during the last decades, particularly in East L.A. the nations best-known Mexican Community.
For another, their violence is diffused through many Barrios, rather than being concentrated in a single area like per say South L.A.
For still another, Cholos, as Chicano gang members are commonly known, are harder to recognize than they used to be. The Cholo uniform of oversized Pendleton shirt & khakis, long considered part of the L.A. cultural landscape and popularized in many movies, was abandoned by most gang members years ago in favor of more subtle and individualized attire.
Still, quietly and unspectacularly, the carnage continues.
Small bits of violence, not quite horrifying enough to make headlines, percolate everywhere.
The fact remains that Chicano gangs will never love each other as far as the killings are concerned because somewhere along the line, somebody killed somebody's brother, cousin or homeboy.
What some of the older veteranos and community groups have tried to reinforce is that there is a need to respect each other's neighborhood, and each other's property.
This is a code born of remote segregated Barrios that felt the need to band together against racial discrimination & hostile unknown forces, when the outside world was exactly that "the outside world", an era when connections with Mexican culture were far stronger than today's.
The code included a distinct set of traditions, rules and taboos passed down for generations. It said, violence was not committed randomly, only to settle specific scores. You did not shoot into someone's house. You did not attack bystanders. You did not jump a rival gang member if he was in company of his family.
Much of this code has fallen by the wayside. The gang-world has changed.
The huge increase in immigrants to L.A. from Mexico and Central American countries in the last decades has weakened the traditional gang structure by filling many communities with thousands of youngsters desperate for acceptance. Some commit crazed acts to win respect from other gang members, others fearful of attack from - or - already exposed to gangs, band together to create their own gangs.
In new gangs, where there are no older members above their 30's or 40's - nobody is teaching the new generation "la palabra - the word", how to keep true respect.
Despite all the changes, the "code of honor and respect" is still often cited proudly by Chicano gang members to make the point that they - unlike B's & C's, who are viewed as wild-eyed, unprincipled newcomers to the gang-world are part of something special.
In Chicano gangs "you gotta have a lot of heart"
Take the issue of -
(1) Snitching -
"You never snitch on anybody, not even a rival gang member" it is painfully difficult to persuade a Chicano gang member to implicate an associate or anyone else for that matter, Chicano gang members won’t roll over too easy.
(2) Bravery -
"You never rank out", don't disavow loyalty to you Barrio even if you're facing 20 rivals all alone, "fight to the death".
(3) Por Vida -
"Devoted-until death", you can never say you're an ex-gang member, you may not be active & don't bang any more, but "a gang member still - for life".
Unique to Chicano gangs, with few exceptions, nothing like it has evolved in the street society of gangs where there is too much betrayal, dread, and too lil' life predictability.
There is a lil' bit of these values in all of us Mexicans, gang members or not - loyal to the end. This bond can be as strong as family, and far stronger than warnings of incarceration or death.
To outsiders this is incomprehensible with no sense, but to a Chicano gang member it is having mucho corazon - a lot of heart.
To be continued….
When people talk about gangs in Southern California, they usually think young Black men - Bloods & Crips. But the typical gang member is not a B or C. He is not confined to South Central L.A. He lives in places like Wilmington and Pomona and Santa Ana and Norwalk and Canoga Park and East Los Angeles.
He is heir to a warrior tradition of struggle and clannish violence that stretches back to the first half of the 20th century.
Obscured by the nationwide public attention that has been paid to L.A's. black gangs - is the fact that Chicano gang members outnumber at least 2 to 1 the Black gang members in L.A. County.
L.A. County's Chicano gangs are deeply rooted in their respective communities, and have existed for a long time. Traditionally, many older Chicano gangs have distinct subdivisions called cliques, segregated by either age or geography; these create a social network amongst the gang. In such gangs when a group of youngsters want to join or create their own clique, they ask permission from the gang veterans. In one East Los Angeles gang alone for example (White Fence), there's a chronological 17 cliques, each a formal generational layer, each with a separate name and membership that came to form part of the gang one after another since 1935.
Despite this longevity, Chicano gangs have been easy to overlook in recent years.
For one thing, deaths from their disputes have plunged dramatically during the last decades, particularly in East L.A. the nations best-known Mexican Community.
For another, their violence is diffused through many Barrios, rather than being concentrated in a single area like per say South L.A.
For still another, Cholos, as Chicano gang members are commonly known, are harder to recognize than they used to be. The Cholo uniform of oversized Pendleton shirt & khakis, long considered part of the L.A. cultural landscape and popularized in many movies, was abandoned by most gang members years ago in favor of more subtle and individualized attire.
Still, quietly and unspectacularly, the carnage continues.
Small bits of violence, not quite horrifying enough to make headlines, percolate everywhere.
The fact remains that Chicano gangs will never love each other as far as the killings are concerned because somewhere along the line, somebody killed somebody's brother, cousin or homeboy.
What some of the older veteranos and community groups have tried to reinforce is that there is a need to respect each other's neighborhood, and each other's property.
This is a code born of remote segregated Barrios that felt the need to band together against racial discrimination & hostile unknown forces, when the outside world was exactly that "the outside world", an era when connections with Mexican culture were far stronger than today's.
The code included a distinct set of traditions, rules and taboos passed down for generations. It said, violence was not committed randomly, only to settle specific scores. You did not shoot into someone's house. You did not attack bystanders. You did not jump a rival gang member if he was in company of his family.
Much of this code has fallen by the wayside. The gang-world has changed.
The huge increase in immigrants to L.A. from Mexico and Central American countries in the last decades has weakened the traditional gang structure by filling many communities with thousands of youngsters desperate for acceptance. Some commit crazed acts to win respect from other gang members, others fearful of attack from - or - already exposed to gangs, band together to create their own gangs.
In new gangs, where there are no older members above their 30's or 40's - nobody is teaching the new generation "la palabra - the word", how to keep true respect.
Despite all the changes, the "code of honor and respect" is still often cited proudly by Chicano gang members to make the point that they - unlike B's & C's, who are viewed as wild-eyed, unprincipled newcomers to the gang-world are part of something special.
In Chicano gangs "you gotta have a lot of heart"
Take the issue of -
(1) Snitching -
"You never snitch on anybody, not even a rival gang member" it is painfully difficult to persuade a Chicano gang member to implicate an associate or anyone else for that matter, Chicano gang members won’t roll over too easy.
(2) Bravery -
"You never rank out", don't disavow loyalty to you Barrio even if you're facing 20 rivals all alone, "fight to the death".
(3) Por Vida -
"Devoted-until death", you can never say you're an ex-gang member, you may not be active & don't bang any more, but "a gang member still - for life".
Unique to Chicano gangs, with few exceptions, nothing like it has evolved in the street society of gangs where there is too much betrayal, dread, and too lil' life predictability.
There is a lil' bit of these values in all of us Mexicans, gang members or not - loyal to the end. This bond can be as strong as family, and far stronger than warnings of incarceration or death.
To outsiders this is incomprehensible with no sense, but to a Chicano gang member it is having mucho corazon - a lot of heart.
To be continued….
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ROLLIN' el Heavy
- Straw Weight
- Posts: 60
- Joined: June 21st, 2004, 10:07 pm
- Location: LOS ANGELES
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
What's up Big Dusty Loco? Didn't the REBELS participate in the football games that went on in the late 80's early 90's? I can't remember if we played you guys or not?BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:Y
But with with even the smallest varrios on the Eastside still being active on their block or blocks, there are still some who have lost their hoods and membership. What ever happened to EastLA13Dks? Clarence Street? Plus EastLos has stayed predominantly Mexican/Chicano, unlike the Westside where a lot of Centro's have "taken" over. I noticed some Westside chicano veteranos have moved to the Eastside, where it's more "safer" or "calmer" from the Westside. I'm not saying it's crazier here, but they say it's a respect thing that they don't need to watch their backs when their with family on the Eastside.
Horale, as far as ELA13, I don't see how they could die out so quickly. I remember almost throwing down with some of them at the bowling alley in montebello around 89 or 90. I think if anything they might be locked up right now and their territory might have shrunk but I can't say for sure. Same with CSL I know they were beefing heavy with their rivals around 93-94. Maybe somebody else might know for sure.
Far as being safe that depends on what hood a cat be in. If cats are from an ES hood then it makes sense that they would be safer around their people. I know for a fact though that if any cat goes into a rivals hood on the EastSide, it's on and crackin without question. That's why there's that respect factor. Everybody knows if you cross the line you pay the price. If you stay within your bounds everything should be cool.
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562_HOMIE
- Middle Weight
- Posts: 194
- Joined: January 22nd, 2004, 6:17 pm
- Location: EASTSIDE @ THE BEACH
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
ELAX3 is still around, they've lost their hood but not their respect. Anyone who knows about these older barrios will still have respect for the barrio. In fact over here in Playa Larga theres a couple of ese's claimin it w/ some veteranos backin em. I think they're one of those barrios that basicly moved out for the most part to better homes.
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Lonewolf
- Super Heavy Weight
- Posts: 4167
- Joined: June 2nd, 2004, 4:57 pm
- Country: Mexico
- If in the United States: California
- What city do you live in now?: Tijuana
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- Contact:
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
I know two Homies from EAST L.A. 13, El Raton & El Chuco, both of them still live in Boyle Heights by Brooklyn (Cesar Chavez) & Bridge St. very firme Homies, maybe I'll visit them next time i'm in the neighborhood and hit them up about what happened to their Barrio.
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Lonewolf
- Super Heavy Weight
- Posts: 4167
- Joined: June 2nd, 2004, 4:57 pm
- Country: Mexico
- If in the United States: California
- What city do you live in now?: Tijuana
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- Contact:
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
To: jsantana
From: lonewolf
Subject: East L. A. History
First off, I would like to congratulate you and your parents for having the wisdom and perseverance in education.
*Is the code of honor and respect the direct result of the lack of respect and honor shown to Mexican immigrants in the early 20th Century? Is so, were Pachuco clubs created to affirm the members' self-worth?
Answer: You would find the Chicano street gangs to be a direct result of the discrimination faced since the Southwestern States became part of the U.S. and the Anglo community reluctance to consider us a true part in equal status in this Great Nation of ours.
The nasty and derogatory treatment took shape in many forms, such as the term "cholo" which first came about in the early part of the turn of the century, to denote a person with "no respect, not equal to, dirty and with an antique dress code, a person of bad taste" bestowed upon us by the Anglo community amongst us in our native lands.
Things of this nature and the actual hostility towards our communities, is what bonded us for protection when walking to schools, to and from work, or in defense of the Barrio from outsiders.
The Pachuco "zoot suit" flashy clean look to defeat any inferences like greasers or dirty people developed in direct response.
The discipline and valor to emit "quality of mind and strength" so as to enhance those fine but overlooked traits of ours.
Honor for the brotherhood, not to be sold or bought like everything else that the Anglos came about taking possession through their expansionist trends. Not to be traded, or taken from us, like our land which was stolen and cheated out of by a few like the non-honorable General Santa Ana.
Yes a direct result from this lack of respect and equality to our forefathers and race in general.
*Why do so few barrio members join gangs? Some accounts say that only about 4-14 percent in any given barrio join.
Answer: Most have a lil' bit of the Barrio within them, and most will associate to a degree. But only a few don't have the right guidance from our families, and don't learn to disengage from the more destructive ways that take root, and end up lost in the street life. For the most part, the family will keep you in perspective as to your duties as time creeps up on you, and responsibilities overwhelm your street life. Only those with no one to pull on their ears when need be, are the lost souls that don't make it out. For them the gang is their 1st family.
*How do parents feel about gangs and gang members in East L.A.? in West L.A.?
Answer: Having 3-4 generations of Barrio gang-members in just about every one of our family households, it is hard to put in words. It’s a life, it’s a way, it’s a bond, it's an adventure, it's a tradition that is ingrained in our culture now here in the U.S. You can't separate it, you learn to accept it. The bad part is when the gang fails to respect even its residents and neighbors, and creates all kinds of problems for them. That is when the attitude from Barrio Life to Gangster Life changes and you've become just another street criminal.
This has now become the stereotyped arch type "cholo" whom is hated by most families in the Barrios.
*I have read that street gangs are entirely separate from gangs engaging in the drug trade. Is this true? Do many East Los Angeles gangs mobilize around the drug trade?
Answer: On the high-level of organized trafficking for the most part "yes" they are entirely different and separate from each other. The organized mafia per say, works in the shadows, undercover trying not to be recognized or detected. The street gang wants notoriety and its highly visible in its everyday street life. However, they both need each other, one to produce and bring in the merchandise, the other to distribute and sell the merchandise into the general population business markets.
The street gangs are able to exert a lot of control in their neighborhoods in terms of illegal activity - since for the most part they are "outlaws". It's like you can't have the chicken without the egg, but where did the egg come from?
*What is the purpose of East LA gangs today? Is it still to combat discrimination and hostile forces? Are these gangs still bound around racial discrimination?
Answer: The purpose varies from gang to gang, for the most part $$$$$ and more $$$$$ is now the de-facto impulse of the majority, but underlying this, is still the fact that most retain some nostalgia about being part of something bigger than themselves - since for the most part - it will be the only mark they'll leave behind when they pass away. The discrimination factor has taken a different angle. For now the Chicanos have gained not only a majority stand, but also a dominant role in most of the southwest street scene. The Islanders (Filipinos, Samoans, Maoris, Tongans), the Asians (Chinese, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians), East Africans (Somalis, Ethiopians), Central-Americans (Salvadorans, Guatemalans), and Armenians are now the ones banding together for protection and discrimination from Blacks as well as from the Mexican/Chicanos.
*Please describe the notions of honor, respect, la palabra, and corazon.
Answer: You don't need a school degree, you don't need a political position, you don't need money, you don't need a title, "all you need is honor to your word", to be relied upon always, faithful to your street family or home family to which you're an integral part of, and your word to its members is an allegiance that should never be broken.
Whether is right or wrong its irrelevant, that is your nation, your spouse per say, "until death do us part" goes the saying. Hold up your end with nothing to stain the honor in it.
Respect is something that is no longer practiced out in the streets; it has been lost along with the olden ways. Respect is now associated with your enemies or your neighbors being afraid of you or your gang. In the olden ways, you acknowledged and respected that even your enemies had valor and honor, so you showed respect by only going into their neighborhood when invited, and while there, you respected their rules in their territory, kind of like nations do with each other.
You also respected you residents and neighbors property out of the principles that our good folks taught us in good culture and ethics.
La palabra - the teaching of the sane heads, olden and experienced veteranos to the younger generation on the ways to have your Barrio gang, but yet keep it level headed, for it does not need to be chaotic and without a purpose.
Part of the o.g. purpose was community policing per say, as well as good fun, but remaining distinctive and rebellious, keeping it with truthful attitude, not hypocritical like the adult world seems to always be. Young people can see right thru-it, and are more in-touch with "what it is" - hence the term.
Corazon; this goes to all the above, strength, valor, honor, it is "a duty to stand up for it".
*Now that the generational culture gap is no longer as prevalent an issue in East Los Angeles, why do gangs persist?
Answer: The generational gaps is very much alive and still a real issue, probably even more so now than in the past, due to the large influx of immigration, as well as the speed of pop culture, and the media push towards constant change, as well as the street slang taking dramatic leaps to the point where even people like me with 3 decades of Barrio Life to my credit, find it very difficult to keep up with the trends in music, dress, and language of young people.
The gangs persist because it has become culture, unless you want to be on the outside looking in per say. You don't have to be hardcore, you just need to mix in and blend in.
*Please explain "True Barrio Life."
Answer: Well you'll just have to read on, as I continue to post. There is so much. But it all boils down to speaking to your parents and abuelos, ask them about their town or neighborhood, how they grew up knowing everybody in them, how they partook in giving people a hand when they faced the woes of life.
Mellowness and comradeship is what will ring out - that is Barrio Life.
*Why do West L.A. youths desperately seek acceptance from gangs?
Answer: It is not confined to the West Side, for it is an "all over" phenomena. True it is a more prevalent scene in the West Side - largely due to having large numbers of not only new immigrants, but also the variety of people from so many nations and races, as well as
The lack of communities with a generational history,
The build-up of overnight development,
The lack of affordable housing, which steers people into apartments to which the "no fixed residency" puts the youngsters in and out of different schools on a regular basis, leaving them with "no real attachment" or feeling of belonging. The gang being the only one left to offer them that security of belonging and bond attachment.
*How do East L.A. gang members deal with the children of immigrants? Census 2000 indicates that about half of the residents in East L.A. are foregin born...
Answer: There is always some dislike for newer raza in the Barrios, part of being that it takes time for them to learn the language and ways from the local scene. A lot of the new raza feels alienated and band together to create their own, others find open-membership gangs and join them.
The East Side has been more receptive to this influx from Mexico, due to having experienced it through out its history, and mainly because it has been immigrants from Mexico and not from other Nations. The East Side has also dealt with it in a softer way, than per say other areas like North East L. A. and San Gabriel Valley which still remains middle-class home owners based communities.
*Finally, what are your feelings on illegal immigration? How does this impact the gang structure of East and West L.A.?
Answer: Having family with long established roots in Tejas, Califas, Arizona, Nuevo Mejico as well as Old Mejico, Baja Califas, Chihuahua and Jalisco, I'm on both sides of the fence, still clinging to both worlds by living among the two at the border of San Diego and Tijuana.
I try to keep them in perspective; I know very well the hardship my people face in our beloved Mejico, especially with a government that continuously fails to meet the needs of the people. But also I see the impact that illegal immigration creates on the local level in regards to jobs, schools, crime, medical services, and so forth. For the most part, there is so much bogus statistics on the illegal immigrants' impact on the communities and businesses. My people would not continue to risk their lives in coming across the border, if there were not anyone wishing to hire them and offer them work. Some states like Califas have considerably closed their doors, but others like Oklahoma, Idaho, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee need them, and look the other way when it comes to enforcing the established laws.
On the political and patriotic arena, we Mexico-Americanos are just as much loyal and willing to put our lives and money for the defense and well-being of the nation as a whole. Even those of us that refuse to assimilate, by doing away with our heritage.
Legal immigration is always preferred, but as NAFTA has created a massive dislocation of people from the rural areas, as well as in the small business sector in the cities, you can bet your whatever, that they will continue to come any which way they can find.
From: lonewolf
Subject: East L. A. History
First off, I would like to congratulate you and your parents for having the wisdom and perseverance in education.
*Is the code of honor and respect the direct result of the lack of respect and honor shown to Mexican immigrants in the early 20th Century? Is so, were Pachuco clubs created to affirm the members' self-worth?
Answer: You would find the Chicano street gangs to be a direct result of the discrimination faced since the Southwestern States became part of the U.S. and the Anglo community reluctance to consider us a true part in equal status in this Great Nation of ours.
The nasty and derogatory treatment took shape in many forms, such as the term "cholo" which first came about in the early part of the turn of the century, to denote a person with "no respect, not equal to, dirty and with an antique dress code, a person of bad taste" bestowed upon us by the Anglo community amongst us in our native lands.
Things of this nature and the actual hostility towards our communities, is what bonded us for protection when walking to schools, to and from work, or in defense of the Barrio from outsiders.
The Pachuco "zoot suit" flashy clean look to defeat any inferences like greasers or dirty people developed in direct response.
The discipline and valor to emit "quality of mind and strength" so as to enhance those fine but overlooked traits of ours.
Honor for the brotherhood, not to be sold or bought like everything else that the Anglos came about taking possession through their expansionist trends. Not to be traded, or taken from us, like our land which was stolen and cheated out of by a few like the non-honorable General Santa Ana.
Yes a direct result from this lack of respect and equality to our forefathers and race in general.
*Why do so few barrio members join gangs? Some accounts say that only about 4-14 percent in any given barrio join.
Answer: Most have a lil' bit of the Barrio within them, and most will associate to a degree. But only a few don't have the right guidance from our families, and don't learn to disengage from the more destructive ways that take root, and end up lost in the street life. For the most part, the family will keep you in perspective as to your duties as time creeps up on you, and responsibilities overwhelm your street life. Only those with no one to pull on their ears when need be, are the lost souls that don't make it out. For them the gang is their 1st family.
*How do parents feel about gangs and gang members in East L.A.? in West L.A.?
Answer: Having 3-4 generations of Barrio gang-members in just about every one of our family households, it is hard to put in words. It’s a life, it’s a way, it’s a bond, it's an adventure, it's a tradition that is ingrained in our culture now here in the U.S. You can't separate it, you learn to accept it. The bad part is when the gang fails to respect even its residents and neighbors, and creates all kinds of problems for them. That is when the attitude from Barrio Life to Gangster Life changes and you've become just another street criminal.
This has now become the stereotyped arch type "cholo" whom is hated by most families in the Barrios.
*I have read that street gangs are entirely separate from gangs engaging in the drug trade. Is this true? Do many East Los Angeles gangs mobilize around the drug trade?
Answer: On the high-level of organized trafficking for the most part "yes" they are entirely different and separate from each other. The organized mafia per say, works in the shadows, undercover trying not to be recognized or detected. The street gang wants notoriety and its highly visible in its everyday street life. However, they both need each other, one to produce and bring in the merchandise, the other to distribute and sell the merchandise into the general population business markets.
The street gangs are able to exert a lot of control in their neighborhoods in terms of illegal activity - since for the most part they are "outlaws". It's like you can't have the chicken without the egg, but where did the egg come from?
*What is the purpose of East LA gangs today? Is it still to combat discrimination and hostile forces? Are these gangs still bound around racial discrimination?
Answer: The purpose varies from gang to gang, for the most part $$$$$ and more $$$$$ is now the de-facto impulse of the majority, but underlying this, is still the fact that most retain some nostalgia about being part of something bigger than themselves - since for the most part - it will be the only mark they'll leave behind when they pass away. The discrimination factor has taken a different angle. For now the Chicanos have gained not only a majority stand, but also a dominant role in most of the southwest street scene. The Islanders (Filipinos, Samoans, Maoris, Tongans), the Asians (Chinese, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians), East Africans (Somalis, Ethiopians), Central-Americans (Salvadorans, Guatemalans), and Armenians are now the ones banding together for protection and discrimination from Blacks as well as from the Mexican/Chicanos.
*Please describe the notions of honor, respect, la palabra, and corazon.
Answer: You don't need a school degree, you don't need a political position, you don't need money, you don't need a title, "all you need is honor to your word", to be relied upon always, faithful to your street family or home family to which you're an integral part of, and your word to its members is an allegiance that should never be broken.
Whether is right or wrong its irrelevant, that is your nation, your spouse per say, "until death do us part" goes the saying. Hold up your end with nothing to stain the honor in it.
Respect is something that is no longer practiced out in the streets; it has been lost along with the olden ways. Respect is now associated with your enemies or your neighbors being afraid of you or your gang. In the olden ways, you acknowledged and respected that even your enemies had valor and honor, so you showed respect by only going into their neighborhood when invited, and while there, you respected their rules in their territory, kind of like nations do with each other.
You also respected you residents and neighbors property out of the principles that our good folks taught us in good culture and ethics.
La palabra - the teaching of the sane heads, olden and experienced veteranos to the younger generation on the ways to have your Barrio gang, but yet keep it level headed, for it does not need to be chaotic and without a purpose.
Part of the o.g. purpose was community policing per say, as well as good fun, but remaining distinctive and rebellious, keeping it with truthful attitude, not hypocritical like the adult world seems to always be. Young people can see right thru-it, and are more in-touch with "what it is" - hence the term.
Corazon; this goes to all the above, strength, valor, honor, it is "a duty to stand up for it".
*Now that the generational culture gap is no longer as prevalent an issue in East Los Angeles, why do gangs persist?
Answer: The generational gaps is very much alive and still a real issue, probably even more so now than in the past, due to the large influx of immigration, as well as the speed of pop culture, and the media push towards constant change, as well as the street slang taking dramatic leaps to the point where even people like me with 3 decades of Barrio Life to my credit, find it very difficult to keep up with the trends in music, dress, and language of young people.
The gangs persist because it has become culture, unless you want to be on the outside looking in per say. You don't have to be hardcore, you just need to mix in and blend in.
*Please explain "True Barrio Life."
Answer: Well you'll just have to read on, as I continue to post. There is so much. But it all boils down to speaking to your parents and abuelos, ask them about their town or neighborhood, how they grew up knowing everybody in them, how they partook in giving people a hand when they faced the woes of life.
Mellowness and comradeship is what will ring out - that is Barrio Life.
*Why do West L.A. youths desperately seek acceptance from gangs?
Answer: It is not confined to the West Side, for it is an "all over" phenomena. True it is a more prevalent scene in the West Side - largely due to having large numbers of not only new immigrants, but also the variety of people from so many nations and races, as well as
The lack of communities with a generational history,
The build-up of overnight development,
The lack of affordable housing, which steers people into apartments to which the "no fixed residency" puts the youngsters in and out of different schools on a regular basis, leaving them with "no real attachment" or feeling of belonging. The gang being the only one left to offer them that security of belonging and bond attachment.
*How do East L.A. gang members deal with the children of immigrants? Census 2000 indicates that about half of the residents in East L.A. are foregin born...
Answer: There is always some dislike for newer raza in the Barrios, part of being that it takes time for them to learn the language and ways from the local scene. A lot of the new raza feels alienated and band together to create their own, others find open-membership gangs and join them.
The East Side has been more receptive to this influx from Mexico, due to having experienced it through out its history, and mainly because it has been immigrants from Mexico and not from other Nations. The East Side has also dealt with it in a softer way, than per say other areas like North East L. A. and San Gabriel Valley which still remains middle-class home owners based communities.
*Finally, what are your feelings on illegal immigration? How does this impact the gang structure of East and West L.A.?
Answer: Having family with long established roots in Tejas, Califas, Arizona, Nuevo Mejico as well as Old Mejico, Baja Califas, Chihuahua and Jalisco, I'm on both sides of the fence, still clinging to both worlds by living among the two at the border of San Diego and Tijuana.
I try to keep them in perspective; I know very well the hardship my people face in our beloved Mejico, especially with a government that continuously fails to meet the needs of the people. But also I see the impact that illegal immigration creates on the local level in regards to jobs, schools, crime, medical services, and so forth. For the most part, there is so much bogus statistics on the illegal immigrants' impact on the communities and businesses. My people would not continue to risk their lives in coming across the border, if there were not anyone wishing to hire them and offer them work. Some states like Califas have considerably closed their doors, but others like Oklahoma, Idaho, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee need them, and look the other way when it comes to enforcing the established laws.
On the political and patriotic arena, we Mexico-Americanos are just as much loyal and willing to put our lives and money for the defense and well-being of the nation as a whole. Even those of us that refuse to assimilate, by doing away with our heritage.
Legal immigration is always preferred, but as NAFTA has created a massive dislocation of people from the rural areas, as well as in the small business sector in the cities, you can bet your whatever, that they will continue to come any which way they can find.
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BIG DUSTY LOCO
- Light Heavy Weight
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: June 12th, 2003, 10:26 am
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Chale Rollin, we weren't playing the football games during that time. Those were probably Rebels13chs that played you guys.ROLLIN' el Heavy wrote:What's up Big Dusty Loco? Didn't the REBELS participate in the football games that went on in the late 80's early 90's? I can't remember if we played you guys or not?BIG DUSTY LOCO wrote:Y
But with with even the smallest varrios on the Eastside still being active on their block or blocks, there are still some who have lost their hoods and membership. What ever happened to EastLA13Dks? Clarence Street? Plus EastLos has stayed predominantly Mexican/Chicano, unlike the Westside where a lot of Centro's have "taken" over. I noticed some Westside chicano veteranos have moved to the Eastside, where it's more "safer" or "calmer" from the Westside. I'm not saying it's crazier here, but they say it's a respect thing that they don't need to watch their backs when their with family on the Eastside.
Horale, as far as ELA13, I don't see how they could die out so quickly. I remember almost throwing down with some of them at the bowling alley in montebello around 89 or 90. I think if anything they might be locked up right now and their territory might have shrunk but I can't say for sure. Same with CSL I know they were beefing heavy with their rivals around 93-94. Maybe somebody else might know for sure.
Far as being safe that depends on what hood a cat be in. If cats are from an ES hood then it makes sense that they would be safer around their people. I know for a fact though that if any cat goes into a rivals hood on the EastSide, it's on and crackin without question. That's why there's that respect factor. Everybody knows if you cross the line you pay the price. If you stay within your bounds everything should be cool.
Also, I noticed a few Westsiders have roots in the Eastside.
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Lonewolf
- Super Heavy Weight
- Posts: 4167
- Joined: June 2nd, 2004, 4:57 pm
- Country: Mexico
- If in the United States: California
- What city do you live in now?: Tijuana
- Location: THE BORDERLAND
- Contact:
Re: EAST LOS ANGELES HISTORIA
Los Angeles es como un "Viejo Oeste postmodernista" donde todos tienen un arma y todos la usan. Un lugar fuera de control y algo temible, una tierra de sueños y belleza que funciona bajo sus propias reglas. la vida de las pandillas de Los Angeles, no sólo es una vida llena de la violencia física de uno contra el otro, sino a la violencia silenciosa llena de segregación y aislamiento viviendo fuera del la norma. La experiencia de vivir entre las pandillas del barrio se le conoce como "La vida loca". Este estilo de vida se originó con las pandillas de Pachucos Mexicanos en los años 30's y 40's, donde su lenguaje y estilo propios de sus Barrios en América estaba ligado con el estilo de la juventud citadina de las grandes ciudades Mexicanas. Después fueron recreadas por los Cholos (término utilizado para describir y definir el estilo o la gente asociada con las pandillas de Chicanos). Se volvió el modelo principal y la influencia del estilo pandillero venidero:"Era el Cholo el que primero efectuó la caminada e hizo la hablada". Era el Pachuco Mexico-Americano quien comenzó con los tatuajes emblémicos, las señas con las manos, las frases en las paredes.
A pesar de que han habido treguas entre muchas de las pandillas a traves del tiempo, muchas guerras entre pandillas continúan. El Este de los Angeles, desde hace mucho tiempo, ha sido un vecindario descuidado con pobladores en su mayoría imigrantes Mexicanos. Tiene el índice más alto de deserción de escuela a nivel nacional, el desempleo esta en un alto porcentaje en las áreas más descuidadas. Hay un riesgo de suicidio entre los muchachos de las pandillas cuyas opciones han sido recortadas -sin educación, sin trabajo, sin oportunidades para avanzar. Se paran en las esquinas de las calles y de los parques, haciendo señas de sus respectivas pandillas provocando balaceras. Es "la torcida" (prisión) o la muerte: el camino de un guerrero. Y se asesinan y son asesinados, comúnmente todos ellos se ven al igual, lo más cercano a lo que ellos son - su propio reflejo, "asesinan y se matan ellos mismos una y otra vez".
A pesar de que han habido treguas entre muchas de las pandillas a traves del tiempo, muchas guerras entre pandillas continúan. El Este de los Angeles, desde hace mucho tiempo, ha sido un vecindario descuidado con pobladores en su mayoría imigrantes Mexicanos. Tiene el índice más alto de deserción de escuela a nivel nacional, el desempleo esta en un alto porcentaje en las áreas más descuidadas. Hay un riesgo de suicidio entre los muchachos de las pandillas cuyas opciones han sido recortadas -sin educación, sin trabajo, sin oportunidades para avanzar. Se paran en las esquinas de las calles y de los parques, haciendo señas de sus respectivas pandillas provocando balaceras. Es "la torcida" (prisión) o la muerte: el camino de un guerrero. Y se asesinan y son asesinados, comúnmente todos ellos se ven al igual, lo más cercano a lo que ellos son - su propio reflejo, "asesinan y se matan ellos mismos una y otra vez".