Pedro Espinoza's Preliminary Hearing

[alexalonso]

ON June 18, 2008, Pedro Espinoza, the 18th Street gang member listed to evidence against him in the killing of Jamiel Shaw.

[KINGFEAR62]

He looks like he couldn't care less about killing that kid or about spending the rest of his life in jail he is in his teens and will never have sex with a woman again he should just kill his self

[Vincetheprince]

Yeah he looks like he doesn't care, and he will never sleep with a woman again so he better pray that his gang is deep in the jail he's going to or he's gonna have to be pshycoANALyzed for getting beat up and punked by all the black inmates

[alexalonso]

sounds like you people already convicted Pedro Espinoza in the court of public opinion. While at the preliminary hearing, we learned that this shooting was not premeditated. If Pedro is guilty, he was visiting Jamiel's neighbor, Torres, and when Pedro found out that he was not home, he just happened to cross paths with Jamiel while he was walking home. If Jamiel was 1 minute slower or faster, or if Pedro woud have showed up 1 minute fast or slower, they would have never crossed paths.

[dunkykong]

isnt it premeditated if you already got it in your mind that if you see a rival you gonna bust your gun it may be hard to prove but we are talking bout gangs with a greenlight on eachother

he earned his stripes when he killed that youngin and got all this attention so he will be fine when he hit the yard.......wow

[Vincetheprince]

ya if the 2 gangs are beefing with each other then wouldn't that count as pre-meditated murder, why was Pedro going to the neighbors house in the first place?

[alexalonso]

the definition is "First Degree Murder - is any murder that is committed with premeditation and deliberation, all others are second degree murders. (Penal code 189)" - what Pedro did, if he is guilty was deliberate, but was it premediatated?

[Vincetheprince]

Well if it was deliberate but not premeditated would that count as second-degree murder? Is there proof that it was or wasn't premeditated?

[61deuce]

The shooting itself might be deliberate but it wasn't premeditated. Premeditated mean you actually planned the killing and go forth on it. I believe Pedro didn't plan to kill Jamel or any P Stones on that day. Jamel happen to slip by Pedro and Pedro seeing Jamel color ... ask where he was from. From there Pedro open fire on Jamel. Most gangs shooting are not Premeditated but it is deliberate.

[Vincetheprince]

Well then wouldn't that count as 2nd degree murder, and he was affiliated with the rolling 20's blood A.K.A SABG-Second Avenue Blood Gang, I'm not sure that he was affiliated with BPS-Black Peace Stones but I doubt that he was

[61deuce]

If Pedro is convicted, he would get the 2nd degree murder charge on him and some others. I'm not sure what hood Jamel from (the P Stones was a typo) meant to type 'any Bloods' ...

[Vincetheprince]

well he's affiliated with SABG-Second Avenue Blood Gang A.K.A. the Rollin' 20's Blood gang, but he was only affiliated he wasn't actually in the gang, and with those charges wouldn't that be enough for life in prison without parole?

[L Grindin]

the definition is "First Degree Murder - is any murder that is committed with premeditation and deliberation, all others are second degree murders. (Penal code 189)" - what Pedro did, if he is guilty was deliberate, but was it premediatated?

Legally, it was premeditated. The legal definition of premeditation is more liberal than the dictionary definition. Premeditation can occur instantly, and doesn't require an extensive amount of time spent thinking. As soon as he got out of the car, he knew that he was going to kill Jamiel Shaw. The instant that he formed the intent to kill constituted the premeditation.

[Vincetheprince]

that makes sense, and knowing our system in the U.S. they're going to try to make it seem as bad as possible so that scum never steps foot out of jail

[sam777]

I for one do not care if it was premeditated or not. KILL Pedro Espinoza in the Gas Chamber and give his mother a front row seat to the PARTY. This animal will go to prison and become a hero among the Mexican gang bangers because there really is a race war, and he killed "the enemy." He killed a black person. The same way Sheryl Green was murdered on 204 street by F13 JUST because she was black.

Animals like Pedro Espinoza adjust well to life in prison because all they've ever know is poverty anyway. So jail is just like home to them. It's dirty, it's violent, and it's crazy.....just like home.

Be tough on these gang bangers. Be extremely tough on them. Lock them away for life, no parole. Give them 23 hours a day lock down, no yard, no visits. There's no tv and no socialization with anyone PERIOD. And if they misbehave, deadly force is allowed. Prison should be as close to HELL as you can get while being alive.

Let them shower just twice a week, but give them no privileges whatsoever. They act like animals so treat them as such. And for the worst of the worst give them the death penalty. Follow the example Texas has set.

I don't care if these gang bangers are 14 or 40, Blood or Crip. Mexican Mafia, White or Asian. Treat these animals as subhuman because that is what they are. They kill for fun and do not deserve a place on earth.

[Vincetheprince]

OUCH, I don't agree

[alexalonso]

I for one do not care if it was premeditated or not. KILL Pedro Espinoza in the Gas Chamber and give his mother a front row seat to the PARTY. This animal will go to prison and become a hero among the Mexican gang bangers because there really is a race war, and he killed "the enemy." He killed a black person. The same way Sheryl Green was murdered on 204 street by F13 JUST because she was black.

Animals like Pedro Espinoza adjust well to life in prison because all they've ever know is poverty anyway. So jail is just like home to them. It's dirty, it's violent, and it's crazy.....just like home.

Be tough on these gang bangers. Be extremely tough on them. Lock them away for life, no parole. Give them 23 hours a day lock down, no yard, no visits. There's no tv and no socialization with anyone PERIOD. And if they misbehave, deadly force is allowed. Prison should be as close to HELL as you can get while being alive.

Let them shower just twice a week, but give them no privileges whatsoever. They act like animals so treat them as such. And for the worst of the worst give them the death penalty. Follow the example Texas has set.

I don't care if these gang bangers are 14 or 40, Blood or Crip. Mexican Mafia, White or Asian. Treat these animals as subhuman because that is what they are. They kill for fun and do not deserve a place on earth.

Cheryl Green was not killed by F13, and her murder was completely different than Jamiel Shaw's murder. Your perspective is completely fascist, for it is not illegal to be a gang member, only illegal to commit crimes. So it makes no sense to "be tough" on gang members that were not committing crimes. When Jamiel Shaw was claiming Blood, it was ok because he didn't have a criminal record, and could run with a football, right?

We should prosecute gang members that commit crimes, simple and according to the law. Thats why there is 1st degree, 2nd degree, voluntary and involuntary manslaughter levels of murder and everyone in America should be prosecuted appropriately.

And there is not one shred of evidence that this was a hate crime, none, nada, nothing, not one iota.

[Vincetheprince]

Yup well said I agree

[sam777]

To Alexalonso,

I guess you know more then the media and the police put together. Every artice I've researched, police officers I've talked to, have named Florencia 13 as the killers of Sheryl Green.

As far as me being facist. Call it what you will. Your grassroots effort to stop these terrorists by talking to them does not work. Telling these people to not join a gang, telling them to STOP gangbanging, it doesn't work. If talking to these terrorist worked they would have stopped long ago.

Farrakhan has talked to them, Jesse Jackson has talked to them. Tookie urged them to stop killing when he was alive. They haven't stopped. Years after the peace treaty Bloods and Crips are still killing each other. In Janurary the war between the East Coast and Grape Street took more than 12 lives. It doesn't matter what it was over either, the fact is these niggers (no not niggas) these are niggers who are killing innocent people as well as themselves. And they are gangbangers.

And the Mexica gangs are terrorist as well. You people who pitty these thugs should be ashamed. Your going around in circles. Your like a dog chasing his tail.

Recidivism is one reason the crime rate stays high. Dangerous animals should be kept in cages. You let them out and you get bit every time.

SAY NO TO PAROLE

YES TO 3 STRIKES LAW

[Vincetheprince]

extremist, fascist

[alexalonso]

Pedro espinoza will finally go to trial, trial scheduled for April 2012.

[Quepolo3]

Let me just say that my heart goes out to the parents of both young men. It is a tragedy on both sides to say the least. However, I can't say that Pedro Espinoza should receive the death penalty. Based on the little amount of info. I've read on this, it appears that this was an altercation between two gang members. If the victim was a blood and the shooter was from 18th st, then both are culpable. It's my understanding that those two gangs have been in a brutal war over the years. He should definately be punished for this crime, no question, but the vicitm was guilty of bad judgment and decided to live the life of a gangster, and this is what happens. Gang members shoot and kill each other all of the time, but when they kill an innocent civilian, that's when it's time to put the hammer down. I know if this was my child I would probably feel differently, but on the outside looking in, I don't feel death is appropriate. I will have to wait to hear the info. from the trial and then make my own judgment on whether the severity of the punishment fit the crime.

[femun]

You guys are way too nice. Pedro Espninoza should die. He is a POS and so are his parents for not raising him to to be a productive member of society.

[alexalonso]

Let me just say that my heart goes out to the parents of both young men. It is a tragedy on both sides to say the least. However, I can't say that Pedro Espinoza should receive the death penalty. Based on the little amount of info. I've read on this, it appears that this was an altercation between two gang members. If the victim was a blood and the shooter was from 18th st, then both are culpable. It's my understanding that those two gangs have been in a brutal war over the years. He should definately be punished for this crime, no question, but the vicitm was guilty of bad judgment and decided to live the life of a gangster, and this is what happens. Gang members shoot and kill each other all of the time, but when they kill an innocent civilian, that's when it's time to put the hammer down. I know if this was my child I would probably feel differently, but on the outside looking in, I don't feel death is appropriate. I will have to wait to hear the info. from the trial and then make my own judgment on whether the severity of the punishment fit the crime.

They only went for death becasue of the media attention. The State rarely ever goes for death when the perpertrator is responsible for killing one person. In gang shootings you have to kill multiple people or be accused of killing multiple people like Charles "Cricket" Smith & Ryan "Rock" Moore from Rollin 30s Piru. Smith is awaiting retrial for the 2006 murders only on the penalty part. Moore was convicted after 3 trials and Smith was convicted after 2 trials, but they have not received the the death penalty yet and probably wont.

Espinoza will most like not received any death sentence either.

[Jmedina239]

FREE DARKY 18ST ALSACE AVE

[alexalonso]

Let me just say that my heart goes out to the parents of both young men. It is a tragedy on both sides to say the least. However, I can't say that Pedro Espinoza should receive the death penalty. Based on the little amount of info. I've read on this, it appears that this was an altercation between two gang members. If the victim was a blood and the shooter was from 18th st, then both are culpable. It's my understanding that those two gangs have been in a brutal war over the years. He should definately be punished for this crime, no question, but the vicitm was guilty of bad judgment and decided to live the life of a gangster, and this is what happens. Gang members shoot and kill each other all of the time, but when they kill an innocent civilian, that's when it's time to put the hammer down. I know if this was my child I would probably feel differently, but on the outside looking in, I don't feel death is appropriate. I will have to wait to hear the info. from the trial and then make my own judgment on whether the severity of the punishment fit the crime.

You are right on the money, this is not a death penalty case. I have sat in on the trial every day and it is almost a toss up between 2nd degree and 1st degree murder because if Pedro is guilty, he never went to 5th Ave to do a shooting in the first place. It occurred completely spontaneously as he saw Jamiel Shaw walking towards him. Pedro was visiting Juan Torres who was the neighbor of Jamiel Shaw. Read more here: http://www.streetgangs.com/features/050 ... marc-asher

[alexalonso]

You guys are way too nice. Pedro Espninoza should die. He is a POS and so are his parents for not raising him to to be a productive member of society.

Very rarely are special circumstances filed against a defendant for 1) committing one homicide, and 2) it being a gang shooting. If Pedro should die, then 100s of other defendants should die too using your logic.

I will be very surprised if he gets the death penalty but that will depend on the jury.

[clare25]

I live in The States but im originally from Australia and ive been following this since it happened and was shocked he got the death penalty when he didnt admit to it and there was really no evidence he was even the one who did do it, there was a guy who shot 2 off duty police officers and he got 10 years!!! I hope one day he gets a new trial it seems like they convicted him just for the fact his in a gang! Its a shame though they were both so young and both of there lives gone!!!

[bumperjack]

Yes it is always a sad thing when young men lose there lives to gang violence,It looks like a second degree murder and the death penalty is out of the question for sure...The Model Penal Code: classifies homicides differently,without degrees. Under it,murder is any killing committed purposefully and knowingly,manslaughter is any killing committed as a result of recklessness,and neligent homicide is any killing resulting from negligence...Some states Classify their Murders differently.In Pennsylvania,California,Massachusetts,First degree Murder encompasses premeditated murders,second-degree murder encompasses accomplice liability, and third degree serves
as a catch-all for other murders.

Voluntary Manslaughter:Sometimes called 3rd degree murder is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill is what I think is very possible in this case...

You have to know the laws in this different states cause they are different Im in California...