that's because of white people. white people created racism and division amongst races. that's why you should read those books and know your history b 4 you open yo trap...afakasi wrote: re-read my post, where have blacks or any other race shown "concern" for whites? everyone hates everyone
White America:sick,evil liars
what you've just said now is totally contradicted by my postwhoknows wrote:that's because of white people. white people created racism and division amongst races. that's why you should read those books and know your history b 4 you open yo trap...afakasi wrote: re-read my post, where have blacks or any other race shown "concern" for whites? everyone hates everyone
afakasi wrote:what you've just said now is totally contradicted by my postwhoknows wrote:that's because of white people. white people created racism and division amongst races. that's why you should read those books and know your history b 4 you open yo trap...afakasi wrote: re-read my post, where have blacks or any other race shown "concern" for whites? everyone hates everyone
if you would read the books johnnyblack gave plus know your history then u would see how all the colored people of the world showed the fork tongues concern at one time only to be lied to and betrayed by them.
Ya okay those books don't go back past 1600's guaranteed, Arabs were enslaving blacks way before any of those books were written and before even whites had black slaves, and even before that there was and still is tribal warfare among different African tribes, and since teh dawn of time people have oppressed the Jews so just shutup with your half-baked knowledge.whoknows wrote:that's because of white people. white people created racism and division amongst races. that's why you should read those books and know your history b 4 you open yo trap...afakasi wrote: re-read my post, where have blacks or any other race shown "concern" for whites? everyone hates everyone
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Yeah but Arabs are technically considered whites right? And Arabs traded Arab slaves to some of the African Empires. And tribal warfare isn't decieving and tricking people, unlike coming to someones land as a foreign visitor with gifts, and then wiping them out, stealing their shit, or whatever other scandalous shit you have up your sleeve. So what the fuck does this have to do with jews? We've established that they're are different races of Jews,(unless you feel the only Jews are Ashkenazi, European bred) hell DNA test have established that, and who has fucked them over: Arabs, Romans, Germans -all white- so shut up with your face value, 2 cm deep, BS knowledge, sly, white dick lickin' knowledge.
No Arab I met considers themselves whiteperongregory wrote:Yeah but Arabs are technically considered whites right? And Arabs traded Arab slaves to some of the African Empires. And tribal warfare isn't decieving and tricking people, unlike coming to someones land as a foreign visitor with gifts, and then wiping them out, stealing their shit, or whatever other scandalous shit you have up your sleeve. So what the fu-- does this have to do with jews? We've established that they're are different races of Jews,(unless you feel the only Jews are Ashkenazi, European bred) hell DNA test have established that, and who has #%@& them over: Arabs, Romans, Germans -all white- so shut up with your face value, 2 cm deep, BS knowledge, sly, white dick lickin' knowledge.
At the same time NOI claims black and arab are same/similar
lol I guess race is really fullfilling it's purpose here... confusion and division
By the way, I realized that despite this is a "streetgangs" forum, anyone notice this is the most active board (Race and Ethnicity), even more active now than the News section?
Interesting how race always comes up anytime different people meet. People have more to say about race than any gang topic here, and even the gang topics get racial... just an interesting observation...
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stop diverting the topic. I don't consider myself black I'm brown, people don't give a shit, I'm black. What the hell does the NOI have to do with this? You're always somehow trying to talk shit about black organizations which you don't agree with. Can you be an equal oppurtunity hater, or do you prefer sticking with white apologists, latent black hater?
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sorry about that... I go off on tangents alot, and in real life too, wasn't intentional just thinking out loud.. or typing it at least.perongregory wrote:stop diverting the topic. I don't consider myself black I'm brown, people don't give a shit, I'm black. What the hell does the NOI have to do with this? You're always somehow trying to talk shit about black organizations which you don't agree with. Can you be an equal oppurtunity hater, or do you prefer sticking with white apologists, latent black hater?
Arabs consider themselves as just Arabs except for some Sudanese and such who consider themselves both black and Arab.
I consider Arab to just be Arab. It's a mess trying to do the "black" and "white" thing with them. Like Belizeans, some are white, some are black, a lot are Native, mixed, or just Belizean.
What this has to do with Jews is that they were enslaved by Egyptians long before whites were enslaving others (this is considering the original Egyptians to just be Egyptian, they weren't always considered "Arab" either). As in white's are the ones who "created racism and division"
Actually depending on your belief some "division" was created by language and some say from God, but that's for another forum.
No, I don't hate blacks, or any race for that matter, it's just individuals and some manipulative groups I hate. And I don'[t hate all people in NOI, I hate the deception and advantage Elijah and others took.
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I don't agree with your beliefs about Elijah, but I'm not muslim or NOI so I'm not gonna comment on that.
There's a book by a 8th century Black Muslim intellectual called "the glory of the blacks over the whites". It's about the Zanj revolution, in which the Zanj tribe rose up in revolt to their Arab slavers. It's cool because you learn alot of things about the people from that time, and see that some people that we claim are Arabs they considered black at that time (for instance the moors). The black Africans considered the Arabs white, hence the title.
There's a book by a 8th century Black Muslim intellectual called "the glory of the blacks over the whites". It's about the Zanj revolution, in which the Zanj tribe rose up in revolt to their Arab slavers. It's cool because you learn alot of things about the people from that time, and see that some people that we claim are Arabs they considered black at that time (for instance the moors). The black Africans considered the Arabs white, hence the title.
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But let me add, the Zanj tribe consider the Arabs, even though they aren't black, to be from amongst their kind (they consider the Indians also to be of their kind), and seperate from whites. They quote the prophet as saying he came for the red and the black people. And since Arabs aren't red they must be from among the black side.
P.S. They and the other African tribes including the Berbers themselves, considered the Berbers to be of the black people.
P.S. They and the other African tribes including the Berbers themselves, considered the Berbers to be of the black people.
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A truly interesting history. It's worth noting that The Zanj reported to Abu Uthman al-Jahiz that the differences between white and black were a result of environment. They understand that being Black was not a question of "metamorphosis, or of punishment, disfigurement or favor meted out by Allah."perongregory wrote:I don't agree with your beliefs about Elijah, but I'm not muslim or NOI so I'm not gonna comment on that.
There's a book by a 8th century Black Muslim intellectual called "the glory of the blacks over the whites". It's about the Zanj revolution, in which the Zanj tribe rose up in revolt to their Arab slavers. It's cool because you learn alot of things about the people from that time, and see that some people that we claim are Arabs they considered black at that time (for instance the moors). The black Africans considered the Arabs white, hence the title.
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Interesting, I will look up the Zanj
Both those were very unreasonable.perongregory wrote:I guess that is in response to the anti-black sentiment the Arab slavers expressed in trying to justify black enslavement. Same thing when the old masters justified slavery with that ludicrous Ham curse perversion.
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From my point of view he taught the non-violent way to fight against the oppression. Very much like Gandhi did in India, and he succeed. And I very much do respect the BP also. I always have respect for the revolutionaries. But I think that the only way to win this fight is to fight non-violent all the way. Although there are violent revolutions in the history that have succeed... The only thing about the BP I was criticizing was some of theirs "trigger happy" mentality, that I heard from my friends dad a while ago (who was with the BP). Other than that, they did a lot of good things there, and I'd like to see that movement alive today.johnnyblac eye to eye wrote: You say that people abandoned his teachings, but what teachings is that exactly? Can you tell me what it is that he taught, because I sure as hell don’t know? Can you also tell me what it is that he accomplished?
And what MLK's movement accomplished was Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act.
But basically I agree with you. There still is a lot to fight for, and people should fight that fight now. No reason to wait.
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punamusta wrote: There still is a lot to fight for, and people should fight that fight now. No reason to wait.
Just curious, "fight" for what? And from whom? Who is preventing "Freedom, Justice, Equality from our people?
How in 2006, oppressed people still in a situation where we have to "fight" for anything?
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First of all, if you say 'oppressed people' like you did, you can use that term only knowing that there is also someone _oppressing_ the people, right.X wrote:punamusta wrote: There still is a lot to fight for, and people should fight that fight now. No reason to wait.
Just curious, "fight" for what? And from whom? Who is preventing "Freedom, Justice, Equality from our people?
How in 2006, oppressed people still in a situation where we have to "fight" for anything?
Secondly, the oppression going on todays world is just as bad as it has been hundreds of years ago. There's still slaves, kids systematically sold to become a prostitutes or sex-slaves, kids working in (western owned) factories with practically no pay at all, devastating wars because of greediness, nations divided into raw-material producers (the so-called 'developing countries') and the ones that owns the patents to make the product and collet the profits (industrial countries), etc. Nearly half of the people of the world live in hunger, under a dollar per day because the people in western countries think that we don't owe them nothing.
And the enemy, the oppressing force, is basically the same in every capitalist country (and every country that is under a force of a capitalist ocuntry):
it is the ones that hold the capital, the owners. They are the ones making the laws (by financially supporting the politicians and then demanding for a return service) and controlling the societies, medias, and markets & economic systems. And the economic system is the one that designates how the existing capital is shared. So if the economic system isn't fair and rightful, the governments aren't either as the (have to) play by the rules of economics. "Cash, Rules, Everything, Around, Me, C.R.E.A.M...." That's how it goes.
We have two kinds of people in todays world: the ones that own businesses, and the ones that have to sell themselves to the owners of the businesses in order to get some money.
For me the fight isn't about the black people, white people, brown people - it is about the equality and humanity. No matter how you look outside or where your from. The problem is within the capitalist system, so that's what I fight against. For you the reasons might be different, but I still believe that we are fighting the same fight. Atleast I believe that the enemy is the same.
johnnyblac eye to eye wrote:Lizard,
Look when I’m speaking on MLK I I’m not speaking for every black person, all I am doing is speaking my opinion. I mean I know brothers that love MLK, and I know brothers that don’t like him because they believe integration was the beginning of the black mans destruction. So my views of the MLK might be different from X’s, Blackmanofhonor’s or any other brother on this board. Don’t get me wrong now, cause I have respect for MLK it just that I disagree with some of the things he did and some of the things his children did.
That’s why I have to disagree with you when you say that, “MLK should be remembered for his actions and not the actions of his kids”. Simply because your views have to be lived through your children if they aren’t then they die with you and if that happens, then your children and your children’s children become lost. This is why some of today’s lost generation think that racism/ discrimination is a thing of the past and that we one. That’s why they glorify MLK and not Malcom, Farrakhan or the Panthers, because they want you to think that you won. But how did we win if we are still struggling? How did we win if we are still facing racism, oppression and segregation in the schools, neighborhoods and workforce?
That’s why his kids were supposed to continue the fight, but I don’t see them out here fighting.
I mean I see Farrakhan in my city of Dallas, I see him talking to the youth and gangs, putting together a million man march, I see the NOI giving out scholarships and talking to the hip hop community, but I don’t see the Kings doing any of this. But like my pops says “how are you going to be for the people if you ain’t in the hood with the people.” Now don’t get me wrong I could be wrong and the kings could be active in somebody else’s city but I don’t see them in my city.
You say that people abandoned his teachings, but what teachings is that exactly? Can you tell me what it is that he taught, because I sure as hell don’t know? Can you also tell me what it is that he accomplished? You say that “he knew who his enemy was” but I don’t think he knew because if he did then his children would know and they would have turned the enemy away instead of trying to befriend him. Now I’m not saying that all white people are the enemy but bush is definitely the enemy. I’m also not saying that all white people are the devil because we got black devils as well. But Belafonte isn’t a devil so why not allow the brother to speak if he addressing the same issues the Kings say they are addressing?
I respect you Lizard because you seem to be on straight shit unlike some of the people that are on here but your views on the Panthers are a little distorted. You see the Panthers weren’t teaching brothers to fight violence with violence they were teaching brothers to arm themselves against violence. They were also teaching brothers about the law, teaching them how to read and the value of education. They set up liberation schools, food programs and even had a People’s Medical Centre in Chicago providing free treatment. This something that MLK wasn’t doing and that’s a reason I have a problem with him. Another problem I have with him is that I don’t understand how you can tell your brother’s and sister’s to turn your cheek at racist whites brutalizing and murdering your people.
The biggest mistake made by MLK was that he was begging the white man to be accepted and begging for the white man's approval. You can see it with todays generation. I mean you have these black people in these positions who say they are for the community but they dissassociate them selves from people like the NOI, Farrakhan, and belafonte even the brother Tookie if the white man says something? why? Aren't we are all supposedly fighting racism and oppression? Is it because they are looking for approval? This is a #%@& up mentality to have because it keep us from helping each other. Do you know that the worst discrimination in the world is to be discriminated against by your own people. Hear we have black people in positions to hire other black people but yet we won't hire our own black people. we will hire white people over black people all because we are seeking approval from the white man. that's why i say he was weak minded and the people who follow him was weak minded. MLK was a blind man leading the blind.
This is a good post. Johnnyblac has some really good points! I agree with Johnnyblac that King does have an image problem especially among black youth. During Black History Month, I recall picking up my son from school and overhearing some kids talk about King, one of them referred to King as "some nigga that had a dream that ain't come true." At first I was angry, but its more of what X mentioned in his post. I think the youth sense that the Dr. King that White America is trying to sell them is not the 'REAL' King. I also agree with Johnnyblac that King's family is partly to blame. They have allowed Dr. Kings legacy to be co-opted as some sort of poster child for America's illusion of racial harmony.
In the history textbooks whites exaggerate their role in the civil rights struggle. Whites have written a history where Blacks and Whites are holding hands singing Kumbaya or some shit with King's dream as the backdrop. The reality is King held firm for the last four years of his life a conviction that, "Most Americans are unconscious racists," and that King early on pushed for reparations. King also believed that the United States Government "was the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today". But most whites don't want to hear this or have this truth documented in their HIS-tory books.
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panthers taught a non-viollent way to. they wasn't going out telling brothers to go out and kill every white person you see. they were just telling brothers to defend themselves, but the news portrayed a different view. you know how tell-lie-vision do.punamusta wrote: From my point of view he taught the non-violent way to fight against the oppression. Very much like Gandhi did in India, and he succeed. And I very much do respect the BP also. I always have respect for the revolutionaries. But I think that the only way to win this fight is to fight non-violent all the way. Although there are violent revolutions in the history that have succeed... The only thing about the BP I was criticizing was some of theirs "trigger happy" mentality, that I heard from my friends dad a while ago (who was with the BP). Other than that, they did a lot of good things there, and I'd like to see that movement alive today.
granted he accomplished a lil sumthin but we still on a leash with just a lil bit of breathing room.punamusta wrote: And what MLK's movement accomplished was Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act.
did you see how they took back our voting rights from our brothers in florida?
and do you see how we are still segragated today?
so it may seem like it's a real big accomplishment but its really not.
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well said!!!Tre wrote: but its more of what X mentioned in his post. I think the youth sense that the Dr. King that White America is trying to sell them is not the 'REAL' King. I also agree with Johnnyblac that King's family is partly to blame. They have allowed Dr. Kings legacy to be co-opted as some sort of poster child for America's illusion of racial harmony.
In the history textbooks whites exaggerate their role in the civil rights struggle. Whites have written a history where Blacks and Whites are holding hands singing Kumbaya or some shit with King's dream as the backdrop. The reality is King held firm for the last four years of his life a conviction that, "Most Americans are unconscious racists," and that King early on pushed for reparations. King also believed that the United States Government "was the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today". But most whites don't want to hear this or have this truth documented in their HIS-tory books.
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That's just all kinds of wrong, a white guy who sold drugs and is a felon is still able to get a job, while a black man with no criminal record isn't able to get one. If I were an employer, I'd be more likely to hire a black man with no criminal record than the white man with a criminal past.blackmanofhonor wrote:How come a white guy who has sold drugs and is a felon can get a job easier than a black man with no criminal record?THATS INSANE.
SE11,WHAT CAN BLACKS DO ABOUT THAT?
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You know I'm not just going to accept the assertion that drug dealing white felons are hired, as a rule, over qualified law abiding blacks applying for the same job. PROVE IT!
senseofhumorgirl_ wrote:That's just all kinds of wrong, a white guy who sold drugs and is a felon is still able to get a job, while a black man with no criminal record isn't able to get one. If I were an employer, I'd be more likely to hire a black man with no criminal record than the white man with a criminal past.blackmanofhonor wrote:How come a white guy who has sold drugs and is a felon can get a job easier than a black man with no criminal record?THATS INSANE.
SE11,WHAT CAN BLACKS DO ABOUT THAT?
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she's been spouting off that anti-white / black sympathiser song for a while now....
Old Shatterhand wrote:You know I'm not just going to accept the assertion that drug dealing white felons are hired, as a rule, over qualified law abiding blacks applying for the same job. PROVE IT!
senseofhumorgirl_ wrote:That's just all kinds of wrong, a white guy who sold drugs and is a felon is still able to get a job, while a black man with no criminal record isn't able to get one. If I were an employer, I'd be more likely to hire a black man with no criminal record than the white man with a criminal past.blackmanofhonor wrote:How come a white guy who has sold drugs and is a felon can get a job easier than a black man with no criminal record?THATS INSANE.
SE11,WHAT CAN BLACKS DO ABOUT THAT?
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http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf
and there you go...even though it doesn't matter one bit.
Study Shows How Deeply Black Men Face Discrimination In Hiring
By Tannette Johnson-Elie
JSOnline - Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
October 8, 2003
Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.
The study offers this fictional scenario:
A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.
A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.
Who do you think is more likely to be called back?
If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.
This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.
Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.
Students test employers
In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.
The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.
"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."
Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.
The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.
It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.
"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."
Facing tougher odds
The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.
"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.
"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.
Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.
White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.
Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.
"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.
Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.
Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.
Image problems
A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.
The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.
Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.
"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."
This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.
But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/oct03/
http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/h ... 0803a.html
and there you go...even though it doesn't matter one bit.
Study Shows How Deeply Black Men Face Discrimination In Hiring
By Tannette Johnson-Elie
JSOnline - Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
October 8, 2003
Yet another study finds that racial discrimination is alive and well in the hiring process, and it's keeping black men in metro Milwaukee on the unemployment rolls.
The study offers this fictional scenario:
A young, white, male high school graduate with a felony conviction applies in person for entry level jobs as a driver, a dishwasher, a laborer, warehouse worker and production worker that are advertised in the newspaper and admits to employers that he served 18 months in prison for possession of cocaine with intent to sell.
A young black man with similar education, work history and style of presentation, but with no criminal record, applies for the same jobs.
Who do you think is more likely to be called back?
If you picked the white man with the felony conviction, you guessed right.
This study offers evidence that discrimination remains a major factor in the economic lives of black men, and highlights the fear and misunderstanding of black males that permeate the local job market.
Devah Pager, a sociologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill., sent equally matched pairs of testers - two black and two white - to apply for low-skilled jobs at 350 places of employment in the Milwaukee area and found that white ex-offenders were more likely to be called back for an interview than black applicants who had no criminal record.
Students test employers
In this detailed study, bright, articulate, college students posed as job applicants. Even though the results were strikingly close, black men without criminal records were called back only 14% of the time, while whites with criminal records were called back 17% of the time.
The study, titled "The Mark of a Criminal Record," was conducted in Milwaukee between June and December 2001, and the results were released last month.
"It shows there's a great deal of work that has to be done in the education of employers and working on attitudes," says Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee. "This type of racial disparity in employment practices really impacts us as a region. It impacts our work force, and it really impacts how the inner-city moves forward."
Pager chose Milwaukee for her experiment because it is representative of most large metropolitan areas in its size, racial demographics and industrial base, she says.
The study's findings would surprise few African-Americans in this city, who know from experience that this kind of discrimination exists in the job market. Research shows that white Americans, however, have been led to think that direct, racial discrimination of this nature has become less of a problem in our society.
It was even surprising to Pager, a young white woman.
"I expected that there would be an effect of race. I thought the effect of a criminal record would swamp other effects," Pager says. "That assumption was clearly wrong. It really suggests that stereotypes and assumptions about black males are very much a factor in hiring decisions."
Facing tougher odds
The study demonstrates the increased odds black male ex-offenders face in finding employment and successfully reintegrating into the economic mainstream, says Lenard Wells, chairman of the Milwaukee Parole Commission and a former Milwaukee police officer.
"It's as if there's a concerted effort to keep black men from getting employment, to keep them oppressed," says Wells, former president of the League of Martin, an organization of black Milwaukee police officers.
"We say we want to reintegrate individuals into the community. We say that we want to do something about unemployment in the black community, yet we want to pretend that it's a criminal record that prevents blacks from getting jobs. It's blatant, undisputed, racism," he says.
Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found.
White men without criminal records fared the best in the Milwaukee-area job market, with 34% receiving callbacks from employers.
Keep in mind that it's illegal to discriminate against applicants with criminal records unless the circumstances of the crime correspond closely to the requirements of the job, says Phoebe Weaver Williams, an associate professor of law at Marquette University who specializes in employment discrimination.
"What's frustrating is that, after so many years of having laws in place, the laws haven't corrected the problem," Weaver Williams says.
Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment.
Still, employers are averse to taking risks on black applicants, whom they perceive to have criminal tendencies, the study says. For example, black testers were more likely to be asked by employers whether they had any convictions, yet none of the white testers were asked about their criminal histories up front.
Image problems
A couple of factors that work against young black men is their portrayal in the media as gangsters, thugs and rappers on the fringes of society, and the fact that more black men are going to prison than college, according to a report by the U.S. Justice Department.
The sad reality is that the majority of those inmates will be released back into communities where they have little opportunity to obtain legitimate work. Research shows that one of the factors for recidivism is employment.
Black felons face a hostile job market in Milwaukee, says Wendell Hruska, associate director of Project Return, a Milwaukee agency that helps felons and people convicted of misdemeanors find employment.
"Discrimination is very much a problem. That's what we've been hearing from our clients," Hruska says. "A lot of people get discouraged. Unfortunately, many of them give up. You really can't blame people when you've been out there for months putting in applications and you hear nothing back."
This research helps us measure the degree of discrimination that exists in the hiring process.
But the question remains: How do we attack a problem that so affects the economic lives of black men in Milwaukee, where many employers still make hiring decisions colored by fear and misunderstanding?
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/oct03/
http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/h ... 0803a.html
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I see the point of the study between hiring of whites/latinos/blacks. What I don't seem to understand is why they even brought up a criminal record. The article states "Clearly, the study's findings demonstrate that a criminal record closes doors on employment." but the only real evidence I saw of anyone showing they had a felony conviction was the white people. And they didn't seem to have a problem getting hired even with a conviction. I know the article states "Combine the effects of race and a criminal record, and the problem becomes worse. For instance, only 5% of black men with criminal records received callbacks from employers, the study found." but I didn't see that anywhere in the PDF file of the study. Maybe I missed something. The differences between the article and the study itself confused me.
That being said, I don't know too many restaurants that would hire a man as a server period. They should show those differences, woman always get hired for those positions. Bastards!
That being said, I don't know too many restaurants that would hire a man as a server period. They should show those differences, woman always get hired for those positions. Bastards!
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I do think this study is too narrow, as others have pointed out, in both the scope of the area and the vocations.perongregory wrote:http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf
and there you go...even though it doesn't matter one bit.http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/oct03/
http://www.jobbankusa.com/News/Hiring/h ... 0803a.html
I have experienced areas that absolutely did not function like that: Los Angeles was one of them (at least the companies I worked for there).
I do allow this is a scholarly study done by Princeton University's sociology department showing that in a narrowly defined vocational range for a particular area; these results did surface.
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I knew something wasn't right between the study and the article. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm still at a loss as to why the study didn't have the Latinos or Blacks apply for jobs as a felon as well to get those results. Normally with studies you use all the data with static samples and then just show all the results. I don't know why they wouldn't have gathered those numbers too.perongregory wrote:the princeton study exmines the NY job market, the article is about the MIL.