Do Blacks dispute that Mexicans originated LA gang culture??

[mayugastank]

you think the Latin Kings helped to set precedent for black gangs in Chicago your wrong, its actually the exact opposite.

Its true Latin Kings are one of the oldest gangs that go back to the 40s and 50s , but so do the VIce Lords which go back to '57, but also do take note that the Del Vikings which may have spawned one of the BGDs decks has been around for a long time to the 40s and 50s.

To keep it crisp and clear ,black chicago gangsters go back all the way to the 1880s and 1890s, way before Harlem G's.John Mushmouth Johnson and other gangster originate the black underworld in Chicago.



So the kings are older then the black gangs but they copied the black gangs? were their anything similar to LK in Chitown that used all the beads/bylaws/constitutions/secret handshakes/tatts/graffit style/verbage...like people/king/count/...etc.....? I havent heard of any and so Id asume since the Latin Kings are the oldest still thriving gang in Chicago that they would have been the founders of that whole style...( which actually strengthens my argument on the East Coast hiphop style being a nationwide black style of dress/speech/act/and look......outside of the Stars and Straps/vans and chucks/creased up flannel wearing/graphic T/caligraphied shirts and button down/black and grey style of inkwork West Coast vato...............Americas 2 styles of underground fashion and art!

What gets me is that NYC looked to LA and Chitown to help them get organized. They took big chunks out the movements of -of the LK and youll read on a weekly basis some type of crip/blood violence or drug dealing out there. Its corny as hell.


Heres my hypothetical question and really it a solid question.Why with 36 million plus blacks and a ton of history....did nothing like any of the major black gangs CRIPS/BLOODS/FOLKS/BGD develop amongst brothers in the South and East ...? what did develop is a cuisine/music/and way of life.....blacks transported this nationwide...to other blacks but I make the argument that much of black gang history is bootlegged latino gang history....for whatever reason MExicans have a thorough banging history more so then any other latin out there....Cuban gangs? zilch....Puerto Rican gangs? not till they met with MExicans.....Colombians?nada////

[mayugastank]

LA VIDA LOWRIDER: CRUISING THE CITY OF ANGELS


Hydraulics marked the beginning of a new era of lowriding. In 1958, Ron Aguirre, a Chicano from Los Angeles, installed the first hydraulic system in a 1957 Chevrolet Corvette. The setup allowed his car to be lowered or raised with a flip of a switch, an important innovation in the lowriding scene. The hydraulic parts, surplus from WWII fighter planes, consisted of hydro air pumps and dumps, which assisted in lowering and raising the wing flaps of the fighter aircraft. These surplus parts were a valuable asset to the lowriders, since they could ride as low as they wanted to on the boulevard then return their cars to a legal ground clearance with the flip of a switch if the police were noticed. Because the California vehicle code stipulated that no part of a car could be lower than the bottom portion of the wheel rim, the police often wrote tickets to lowriders, some of their favorite targets.

This is what would drop the bomb ,does hydraulic on lowriders start with Black Americans or Chicanos?thats the real question!

Mexicans they used to cruise Whittier blvd and catch tickets for having their whips so low....so they developed the hydros...to beat the ticket.

[ViciousRidah]

So the kings are older then the black gangs but they copied the black gangs? were their anything similar to LK in Chitown that used all the beads/bylaws/constitutions/secret handshakes/tatts/graffit style/verbage...like people/king/count/...etc.....?

A lot of gangs in the Chi have by laws,handshakes,lits,creeds,codes,symbols,violations,constitutions ,etc, there are many chicago gangs black, mexican,and even some white like the Simon CIty Royals who indeed do have these kind of codes.

I know because I remember seeing the BDs and GDs in H-town ,and they would tell me their get down is based their on ''nations'' beginning in the motherland.

I havent heard of any and so Id asume since the Latin Kings are the oldest still thriving gang in Chicago that they would have been the founders of that whole style...

Latin Kings can probably arguably be the oldest gang in Chicago not to sure, but they didn't exactly bang like they did in the 40s and 50s as they did in the beginning of late 70s and early 80s.Every gang ,whether it be latino or black had to get down under the FOlks and Peoples nations alliance which were created by blacks.

The nations already consisted of numerous gangs also, these nations are today huge in numbers, the VLs number in about 27,000, Kings number in about25,000 and the GDs number in like 30,000 to even 50,000.

Its kind of hard to explain though,but its known that the black gangs of CHicago started the Peoples nations a nation that Latin Kings later went up under.I'll probably explain a little later on.

( which actually strengthens my argument on the East Coast hiphop style being a nationwide black style of dress/speech/act/and look......outside of the Stars and Straps/vans and chucks/creased up flannel wearing/graphic T/caligraphied shirts and button down/black and grey style of inkwork West Coast vato...............Americas 2 styles of underground fashion and art!

No man, that just ain't true ,East Coast style did not give blacks across America their own pizaaz or finesse, because blacks across America were always being mimicked in mainstream,whites latinos,and Asians bit black americans get down before hip hop, the spotlight wasn't even on NYC prior to the conception of Hip Hop.Add to fact Hip Hop took in a lot of shit to create it.

Anyway the other things such as what hip hop gets credit for were already being done in the hood before cameras or rap video came around,I might explain a little later I'm somewhat tired,its late on my end.

What gets me is that NYC looked to LA and Chitown to help them get organized. They took big chunks out the movements of -of the LK and youll read on a weekly basis some type of crip/blood violence or drug dealing out there. Its corny as hell.

Don't get me wrong NYC did have its gangs but they did not proliferate across the country like the organizations like the BPS,GDs,VLs,and 4CHs did.They didn't even spread across the country like Crips ,Bloods,and BGF did in Cali, because they were just structured different.

Their were NYC orgs like the ''5 Percent Nation'' and ''Zulu'' that spread a little bit but they did not retain that much solidarity despite their vast codes and creeds, it just did not resonate or even transform into a force in the hoods across the US.

Of course they are there are Moors that are all around the US,it was conceived on the East Coast, but that really is only big because gangs like the BPS and VLs adopted that ideology, which spread across the US,they really make the Moorish Science Temple widespread not the other way around.Also the Moorish Science Temple was started in Newark not NYC.

Heres my hypothetical question and really it a solid question.Why with 36 million plus blacks and a ton of history....did nothing like any of the major black gangs CRIPS/BLOODS/FOLKS/BGD develop amongst brothers in the South and East ...? what did develop is a cuisine/music/and way of life.....blacks transported this nationwide...to other blacks but I make the argument that much of black gang history is bootlegged latino gang history....for whatever reason MExicans have a thorough banging history more so then any other latin out there....Cuban gangs? zilch....Puerto Rican gangs? not till they met with MExicans.....Colombians?nada////

Well ask yourself why do Chicano gangs mainly from California and Chicago become wide spread nationwide and chicano gangs from the South and East Coast do not become prominent nationwide either, of course you can also say a lot of the roots for Mexican Americans whether chicano are based in the South West of the US since you guys base your culture on a lot of things from there,the food,clothing celebrations ,cowboy boots j/k,all of that cavi ,comes from the South West but the major Chicano gangs are from the Chi and LA,so its some thing to trip on,cause its the same case.

[ViciousRidah]

LA VIDA LOWRIDER: CRUISING THE CITY OF ANGELS


Hydraulics marked the beginning of a new era of lowriding. In 1958, Ron Aguirre, a Chicano from Los Angeles, installed the first hydraulic system in a 1957 Chevrolet Corvette. The setup allowed his car to be lowered or raised with a flip of a switch, an important innovation in the lowriding scene. The hydraulic parts, surplus from WWII fighter planes, consisted of hydro air pumps and dumps, which assisted in lowering and raising the wing flaps of the fighter aircraft. These surplus parts were a valuable asset to the lowriders, since they could ride as low as they wanted to on the boulevard then return their cars to a legal ground clearance with the flip of a switch if the police were noticed. Because the California vehicle code stipulated that no part of a car could be lower than the bottom portion of the wheel rim, the police often wrote tickets to lowriders, some of their favorite targets.

Thanks for the heads up. Around what time was this ? in the article it says the late 1950s. Did lowriding start in East LA?


This is what would drop the bomb ,does hydraulic on lowriders start with Black Americans or Chicanos?thats the real question!

Mexicans they used to cruise Whittier blvd and catch tickets for having their whips so low....so they developed the hydros...to beat the ticket.

[mayugastank]

XXX and Perongregory ..............


Take a lesson on how to take someone to school from ViciousRidah. He states his points clearly without insults....and or "feelings" some I dont know to much about then use and or look up after the fact to either come to a new position and or renige on my previous one and or strengthen my argument. He doesnt drop his emotions into the convo like you ladies do.

[perongregory]

Like you know anything about civic dicourse. Vicious hasn't dealt with your foolishness for 40 pgs I have. Vicious humors your unverified conjectures I destroy them and csll your rants what theu are...BS.

[mayugastank]

Well ask yourself why do Chicano gangs mainly from California and Chicago become wide spread nationwide and chicano gangs from the South and East Coast do not become prominent nationwide either, of course you can also say a lot of the roots for Mexican Americans whether chicano are based in the South West of the US since you guys base your culture on a lot of things from there,the food,clothing celebrations ,cowboy boots j/k,all of that cavi ,comes from the South West but the major Chicano gangs are from the Chi and LA,so its some thing to trip on,cause its the same case.ViciousRidah



The latin Kings are predominantly Mexican now but they always were spearheaded by Puerto Ricans who had alot more numbers. The gangs of the Southwest....all have thorough history and all have real long storied pasts to either Texas or California. Their are 28 million Mexican American and their descendants in America. 6 million reside in the Los Angelos greater area and a total of 11 million in California. Outside of the Southwest their are approximately some 2.5 million Mexican living. The Southwest is home to most Mexicans across the nation. Just like the South would be to blacks. We have up until NOW ....ZERO history in any state outside of the Southwest. Chicago Mexicans are a anamoly. They are isloated and from my understanding are the Whitest MExicans youll ever meet--they also from my understanding are also a newer migration. Mexicans in New York/Carolinas/The South and Lousiana shouldnt have any history of anything as all these people showed up respectively in the last 10-15 years. Notice how wide the issue of immigration has become? It is because of these foreign Mexicans arriving where theyve never been before thats driven this. These arent chicanos-Los Angelenos-4th generation Westernized Americans of Mexican Descent. This would be comaparative to taking Ethopians and Somalians and sending them all over the USA to represent African Americans. In Seattle -the Somalians are considered backwards and primitive by African Americans!

The culture underground of Chicanos started amongst the Chicanos of the Southwest. Their are literally dozens of clickas across SOCAL who are pushing 100 years old. From San Diego to Sacremento. In ELA their is not a one clicka that is under 80 years old. The model for gang culture of the Southwest has developed the term SOUTHENER or SURENO............its an umbrella organization like Crips or Bloods. Their are hundreds of gangs much older then that terminology. Their are hundreds of gangs in California whose history precedes the term. I am getting at the structure/fashion/dress/demeanor and tattoo/graff style of the chicano gangs from place to place thats fed off eachother. Their might be differences but they are small----miniscule. The Crips and Bloods resemble NOTHING of ANYTHING of BLACK AMERICAN GANGS STRUCTURE anywhere outside of Los Angelos and its because of their closeness and proximity to Chicanos that this is. Blacks have transported this style to blacks nationwide thru dudes like TYGA/GAME/PAC/DRE/ICE CUBE/MENACE 2 SOCIETY/BOYS IN THE HOOD/COLORS/DOCUMENTARYS and much much more. What in Gods name does Lil Wayne know of Chicanos? or Maino? WAK FLAKA? Yet despite this their ink and dress ( in Lil Waynes case) is Los Angeleno and chicano. Its far less prevelant amongst blacks to copy our style then it is for whites to thru TAPOUT/UFC/WWF/and all the tattoo shows and shit....but it is there and it is there everytime they get the inkwork done. Ive merely pointed it out ---due to an increase in disbelief of the histoyr of the movement. Everytime someone blasts G thang they are actually describing a very old form of chicano gang life.

[Sentenza]

we have the oldest gangs worldwide in East Los Angelos/ Forget the argument of whether we or blacks started it......there is not one gang WORLDWIDE.....

One more last time. I already showed you that nothing about todays gangs is new and gangs have been around for at least 2000 years.
Killing, stealing, drinking, tattooing, flagging colors and all that. Nothing new about it. Again, at least 2000 years old.

[youngspade]

LOL ANGELOS WTF???

CHICANOSISM

[xxx]

XXX and Perongregory ..............


Take a lesson on how to take someone to school from ViciousRidah. He states his points clearly without insults....and or "feelings" some I dont know to much about then use and or look up after the fact to either come to a new position and or renige on my previous one and or strengthen my argument. He doesnt drop his emotions into the convo like you ladies do.

Homie you too young to be wolfing about who made up what. You talking about this is "My Life" not yours, what kind of weird shit is that coming from a dude that aint got no memories of Years prior to the 90's.

Your from the Buck Rodgers Era Bro!

Everybody grew up looking up to the Older Cats in their Neighborhood, their Block, i dont remember seeing no ELOS Chicanos when i was growing up, i pattern myself after the Older Dudes in my Neighborhood, off my Block.

Werent no Internet, Books, or Gangsta Rap Videos when i was coming of age. I didnt look up to no Chicanos, not from ELOS, didnt even no were East Los was until way later. The Chicanos in my Neck of the Woods were Patterning themselves after the Black Gs in the NH on the Block.

So this Shit about "aint Your Life", it dont belong to you, you too young to own it, to have anything to do with it, find your own lane bro. This was in effect way before you, Blacks & Chicanos were doing this way before you.

Blacks & Browns been copying and mixing eachothers Styles since day one, Hybrids.

Yeah, cant deny ELA laid the foundation for the Gang scene for Chicanos in L.A, and Blacks pick up on the CHicano Gang Culture here and there, but to say we hi-jacked it lock sealed and delivered is a lie, Blacks incorporated this here, that there, wasnt a wholesale jack move.

Blacks wore Leather Jackets in the 70's, Fila Jump Suits inthe 80's, Bomber Jackets in the 80's and Sports Jackets 90's, i can go on and on. We were wearing Hair Nets, Khakis over our stomachs, Cholos had a distinct look, and Crips and Bloods were never Black Cholos.

Just think about El Paso in the 1940's, straight Dirt Roads to the middle of no where, but they happen to be rocking Zoot Suits in the Desert, while the rest of the world is listen to Jazz and miniciming the Harlem, New Orleans,Chicago and Detriot and Los Angeles on Central Ave's Night Life.

I dont have major pride to say we borrowed from each other at different points in time, thats life, whats on your IPOD right now, what are the Veteranos listening to in the Joint right now?

But anyways, I Tap Out , you got it, Mexicans invented the Wheel.

[xxx]

XXX and Perongregory ..............


Take a lesson on how to take someone to school from ViciousRidah. He states his points clearly without insults....and or "feelings" some I dont know to much about then use and or look up after the fact to either come to a new position and or renige on my previous one and or strengthen my argument. He doesnt drop his emotions into the convo like you ladies do.

Homie you too young to be wolfing about who made up what. You talking about this is "My Life" not yours, what kind of weird shit is that coming from a dude that aint got no memories of Years prior to the 90's.

Your from the Buck Rodgers Era Bro!

Everybody grew up looking up to the Older Cats in their Neighborhood, their Block, i dont remember seeing no ELOS Chicanos when i was growing up, i pattern myself after the Older Dudes in my Neighborhood, off my Block.

Werent no Internet, Books, or Gangsta Rap Videos when i was coming of age. I didnt look up to no Chicanos, not from ELOS, didnt even no were East Los was until way later. The Chicanos in my Neck of the Woods were Patterning themselves after the Black Gs in the NH on the Block.

So this Shit about "aint Your Life", it dont belong to you, you too young to own it, to have anything to do with it, find your own lane bro. This was in effect way before you, Blacks & Chicanos were doing this way before you.

Blacks & Browns been copying and mixing eachothers Styles since day one, Hybrids.

Yeah, cant deny ELA laid the foundation for the Gang scene for Chicanos in L.A, and Blacks pick up on the CHicano Gang Culture here and there, but to say we hi-jacked it lock sealed and delivered is a lie, Blacks incorporated this here, that there, wasnt a wholesale jack move.

Blacks wore Leather Jackets in the 70's, Fila Jump Suits inthe 80's, Bomber Jackets in the 80's and Sports Jackets 90's, i can go on and on. We were wearing Hair Nets, Khakis over our stomachs, Cholos had a distinct look, and Crips and Bloods were never Black Cholos.

Just think about El Paso in the 1940's, straight Dirt Roads to the middle of no where, but they happen to be rocking Zoot Suits in the Desert, while the rest of the world is listen to Jazz and miniciming the Harlem, New Orleans,Chicago and Detriot and Los Angeles on Central Ave's Night Life.

I dont have major pride to say we borrowed from each other at different points in time, thats life, whats on your IPOD right now, what are the Veteranos listening to in the Joint right now?

But anyways, I Tap Out , you got it, Mexicans invented the Wheel.

One last thing and im threw with this Debate.

This dude with his Racial undertones, you need to do a litle more research since we know u aint lived it.

ELA during the 1970's & 80's, when Crips and Bloods were on the Rise, ELA was on a down turn, all the Vets were getting high of Herion, even the Young Chicanos in East Los got turned off by that and Started the Stoner Gangs, most of these ELA gangs were brought back alive by the SToner Generation, think about that, STONERS. Long HAir listening to Heavy Metal, that was East Los during the Raise and Dominance of the Crips and Bloods. Black Gangsters were copying that, werent getting high of Herion listeningto Heavy Metal.

So how the hell a bunch of niggas with Braids, Perms, Finger Waves, Afros, sporting Leather Jackets, Bomber Jackets, Starter Jackets, Fila Suits getting Rich off Rocks, High Rollin, copying the ELOS Look, when ELOS was in its Stoner Era looking like Ozzy Osborne?

ESEs came back hard in the 1990's, by then, their style was fused with Blacks style, and vice versa!

[Silencioso]

xxx,

You make some good points but the stoner thing never took over the cholo style. The two styles co-existed in the 80's/early 90's.

Here's an article from the LA Times 1988:

Lurking behind this relative calm, however, was a disturbing change.

In the mid-1980s, law enforcement gang specialists in East Los Angeles began noticing that small knots of boys, many of them second- and third-generation Americans with fewer connections to Mexican culture, were beginning to cluster as different types of gangs. They listened to eardrum-puncturing heavy-metal music, took drugs, snatched purses and stole cars.

They called themselves "stoners," slang used by Anglo kids who were doing much the same thing. They did not look or act like cholos.


They wore their hair long and prided themselves on hanging out not with the most macho guys on the block but with the outcasts and social rejects. They rarely tattooed themselves and, confronted by police, often denied that they were gang members. They were more likely to commit crimes for money than cholos.


A handful were devotees of Satanism and the occult, a tendency that alarmed and disgusted cholos , who maintained at least a lip-service relationship with Roman Catholicism. It was a 1984 desecration at Calvary Cemetery in East Los Angeles, where Stoners Locos 13 graffiti was found, that made gang specialists more fully appreciate how much the stoner phenomenon had infected Chicano youth.

'We Couldn't See It'

"They'd been around for years before that, but we couldn't see it because we were used to the cholo stereotype," said Sheriff's Sgt. Richard Valedmar, a veteran gang expert.

The stoner gangs have their own names (some featuring profane epithets or tributes to getting high), their own style of graffiti (more artful than simple lettering), their own rivalries and their own turf, often shared grudgingly with cholo gangs.

They are worrisome enough that gang specialists in the East Los Angeles sheriff's station use two reference maps, one with cholo boundaries, the other with stoner gang boundaries. The CYA hired a new consultant two months ago specifically to work stoner gangs.

[xxx]

xxx,

You make some good points but the stoner thing never took over the cholo style. The two styles co-existed in the 80's/early 90's.

Here's an article from the LA Times 1988:

Lurking behind this relative calm, however, was a disturbing change.

In the mid-1980s, law enforcement gang specialists in East Los Angeles began noticing that small knots of boys, many of them second- and third-generation Americans with fewer connections to Mexican culture, were beginning to cluster as different types of gangs. They listened to eardrum-puncturing heavy-metal music, took drugs, snatched purses and stole cars.

They called themselves "stoners," slang used by Anglo kids who were doing much the same thing. They did not look or act like cholos.


They wore their hair long and prided themselves on hanging out not with the most macho guys on the block but with the outcasts and social rejects. They rarely tattooed themselves and, confronted by police, often denied that they were gang members. They were more likely to commit crimes for money than cholos.


A handful were devotees of Satanism and the occult, a tendency that alarmed and disgusted cholos , who maintained at least a lip-service relationship with Roman Catholicism. It was a 1984 desecration at Calvary Cemetery in East Los Angeles, where Stoners Locos 13 graffiti was found, that made gang specialists more fully appreciate how much the stoner phenomenon had infected Chicano youth.

'We Couldn't See It'

"They'd been around for years before that, but we couldn't see it because we were used to the cholo stereotype," said Sheriff's Sgt. Richard Valedmar, a veteran gang expert.

The stoner gangs have their own names (some featuring profane epithets or tributes to getting high), their own style of graffiti (more artful than simple lettering), their own rivalries and their own turf, often shared grudgingly with cholo gangs.

They are worrisome enough that gang specialists in the East Los Angeles sheriff's station use two reference maps, one with cholo boundaries, the other with stoner gang boundaries. The CYA hired a new consultant two months ago specifically to work stoner gangs.

That was how they came up with the idea for La Federacion de Barrios Unidos.

The results were immediate. A truce among the gangs was implemented, the murder rate in East L.A. declined, and La Federacion became the basis for the Gang Violence Reduction Project, sponsored by the State of California Parole Department for the next 20 years.

By 1980 there were zero homicides in East L.A. Today over 20 years later, the murder rate in the unincorporated area remains at record low levels - even while in neighboring city communities gang related violence continues to explode.

---------------------------------



Concerned Parents, a group of dedicated mothers who share the distinction of losing one or more children to gang killings, along with the East Los Angeles Sheriff's, the Probation Department, CYGS and others reduced gang homicides to zero for all of 1988.

----------------------------

Stoners & Cholos co-existed, but the Stoners Dominated for that period, while the Vets were strung out, most of the MV gangs are ex Stoners or recruited them.

Crips & Bloods Dominated their Areas with Jerly Curls, Ativator juice dripping on they Silk Shirts and rocking Cross Cords, Rocks & Money in they Pockets, rolling Regals and Cadis on Dees down Crenshaw, roller skating @ World On Wheels, Reseda & Cerritos, going to rap concerts fucking shit up, whats ELA Cholo about that?

Stoners & Taggers rejuvinated the ELA gang scene, for the most part.

And my point is, South Central niggas was mimicing or copying ELA Cholos/Stoners at that time.

i wasnt aware of ELA until i started going to juvenile hall getting expose to different gangs from different parts of the city, but by then i was already fullfludge with zero exposure to ELA. We were Miles away from ELA. ELA was another planet to me, to us back then.

[mayugastank]

Good points XXX......


I agree. Totally jumped over the stoners category. They did infuse the ELA gang structure with new blood. Taggers really change dthe scene. They brought a new way of dress....ultra baggy dickies/new forms of tattooing ( the whole reason Chicano Black and grey took over the world) and even new forms of old school cholo graff. We lived to see this. Bet the cholos of the 60s had a hard time recruiting in the hippy era. But its what Chicano varrios in ELA are diehard.....ist why theyve lasted 100 years in ELA in most cases. That and immigration. What cant be denied is how similar the video above depicts EAZY E and company as "black cholos".........and what else cant be denied is how widespread the cholo look/art and lifestyle is. Its my argument on Americas 2 street cultures. NEW YORK BLACK.........and SOUTHWEST CHICANO. If you look at Sublime/Kat Von D/Linking Park/Red Hot Chili Peppers/Good Charlotte/TAPOUT/UFC/WWF the cholo style is so intertwined in white American culture that many would assume it is white American culture. Even the skater culture is top down owned by the old school look of the vato. His inkwork really spread out to every culture. The art is far more prevalent worldwide then his dress. The art has transpired oceans.....its become the WORLDS tattoo style along with the style of the Japanese criminal....the art is also on every shirt you run into nowadays. The art made Ed HArdy. Ed Hardy and Christian Audigier made the most popular fashion style in the world off the backs of chicano convicts and I doubt blacks wouldve allowed it. I remeber distinctly how when rap came out blacks were fiercely protective of who sung it. Even to this day----perongregory and others take the chicano on a mike to throw us out as "imitators" all I ask is why so isnt EasyE/DRE/SNOOP/GAME/TYGA/MAINO/EMINEM/WAk/JR SMITH/ICE CUBE/ICE T/Kid CUDY/ and all the others who have either the dress and or inkstyle "fine line black and grey and who use our patterns " labeled the same way?

[perongregory]

Blacks were originally protective over rap because we saw how whites stole other black influenced musics and profited from it. Now blacks bring in the Eminems put their stamps on the Kid Frost's, rap with the Hi-Power sureno cats, etc. It's not the same with Chicano gang tattooing because Cartoon and other chicanos have given the art to the world in order to fatten their pocket. Chicanos have given their culture away and profit from it so they are to blame.

Plus the original chicano/Mexican taggers got a lot of their style from blacks, that's another way cholos have mixed black style into their look via ex-tagger mexicans.

The point is Blacks and mexicans mixed in SLA, and the hybrid black mexican look of LA has spread to other Chicanos. The mexican look that SLA mexicans put down spread to blacks as well. That's the truth.

[xxx]

Good points XXX......


I agree. Totally jumped over the stoners category. They did infuse the ELA gang structure with new blood. Taggers really change dthe scene. They brought a new way of dress....ultra baggy dickies/new forms of tattooing ( the whole reason Chicano Black and grey took over the world) and even new forms of old school cholo graff. We lived to see this. Bet the cholos of the 60s had a hard time recruiting in the hippy era. But its what Chicano varrios in ELA are diehard.....ist why theyve lasted 100 years in ELA in most cases. That and immigration. What cant be denied is how similar the video above depicts EAZY E and company as "black cholos".........and what else cant be denied is how widespread the cholo look/art and lifestyle is. Its my argument on Americas 2 street cultures. NEW YORK BLACK.........and SOUTHWEST CHICANO. If you look at Sublime/Kat Von D/Linking Park/Red Hot Chili Peppers/Good Charlotte/TAPOUT/UFC/WWF the cholo style is so intertwined in white American culture that many would assume it is white American culture. Even the skater culture is top down owned by the old school look of the vato. His inkwork really spread out to every culture. The art is far more prevalent worldwide then his dress. The art has transpired oceans.....its become the WORLDS tattoo style along with the style of the Japanese criminal....the art is also on every shirt you run into nowadays. The art made Ed HArdy. Ed Hardy and Christian Audigier made the most popular fashion style in the world off the backs of chicano convicts and I doubt blacks wouldve allowed it. I remeber distinctly how when rap came out blacks were fiercely protective of who sung it. Even to this day----perongregory and others take the chicano on a mike to throw us out as "imitators" all I ask is why so isnt EasyE/DRE/SNOOP/GAME/TYGA/MAINO/EMINEM/WAk/JR SMITH/ICE CUBE/ICE T/Kid CUDY/ and all the others who have either the dress and or inkstyle "fine line black and grey and who use our patterns " labeled the same way?

Yeah you skip over the fact that East Los Chicanos were dressing,looking, and acting like White Boys Stoners from the West L.A area.

have you notice all over the Ghettos/barrios of L.A the Skateboard craze. I see Mexicans on the eastside on central Ave doing tricks on Skateboards, i see Mexicans off of Vermont & Imperial looking like Marlin Manson on some goth type shit.

these rappers you mentioning, werent trying to look like cholos, what the charlie brown shirt? , dude these rappers are mimicing the Black Gangsters from their Neighborhoods @ that time. There intentions were not to dress up or mimic Cholos.

i dont recall niggas making a big deal about Latin Rappers or any other rappers of different races. Kid frost, Beasty Boys, etc all were excepted.

Blacks from California dont just trace there roots down South, Blacks Migrated from the Midwest and the East Coast. The Great Black Migration came in Multiple Waves.

I remember as a Kid when Hip Hop made its way to California, it was always some kid at school who went back to New York and came back with some Mix Tape they recorded off some New York Radio Station.

I remember as a kid, Some Black New York cats name Soon & Legit struck up all down La Brea & Venice, supposely they Brought Grafitti to L.A.

I remember the Hip Hop Culture fusing with Black gangsta Culture, niggas was Break dancing Pop Locking all that shit, so im trying to remember when niggas was looking like cholos, i cant, niggas were wearing fades and flat tops, bomber jackets with the fur around the hood. i remember niggas wearing Loivutton and Gucci belts with wallets to match. Fila Jump Suits with Galzel Glasses. Niggas sporting Perms with Rollers in their hair. i remember niggas getting jacked for Starter jackets, then the Black Gangsta Jacket with the Locs was in.

We kicking a dead dog, there aint no changing minds, especially when you viewing the world threw racial goggles.

America is a Melting Pot, there is no way around. Everybody is Biting off everybody. There is no Pure culture or Styles, if you pick shit apart, you will finds bits and pieces of multiple styles within a everybodys shit.

[xxx]

1980's

[femun]

these rappers you mentioning, werent trying to look like cholos, what the charlie brown shirt? , dude these rappers are mimicing the Black Gangsters from their Neighborhoods @ that time. There intentions were not to dress up or mimic Cholos.

Intentional or not they were mimicing. There is nothing wrong with mimicing a cool style but please recognize where the style originated.

We kicking a dead dog, there aint no changing minds, especially when you viewing the world threw racial goggle

A simple showing of acknowledgement will make this thread go away.

[perongregory]

Ok after the mexicans give aknowledgement to the Irish for modern st gangs and their first gang, and blacks for the zoot suit etc.

[ViciousRidah]

There are a few things that need to be said on this thread before there is any kind of common scope of understanding.

I have been reading comments in this thread from the beggining to end, and there are distortions and inconsistencies on both ends of the arguments.


In the beginning of this thread posters have been trying to conclude where and how was the black LA gangster culture conceived .Some posters have theorized that it came from mexican and some have said that it came from out of town from down south,midwest,and east coast.Some say it was a result of hip hop culture.

I now understand why mayguastank,silencioso, and other posters think that blacks in LA got their culture from outsiders,when you say that black LA gangster culture comes from hip hop and dudes out in the east coast and midwest, I don't see why is it hard to understand why Mexicans are not giving Black gangster culture in LA its due respect.First of all any major city you go like Detroit,Chi Town, DC, and the Bay Area; blacks are going to have their own style, that is unique to that area ,that is a certainty, this ain't because of no hip hop or rap videos.


Man I can tell you , that anywhere blacks or people of African descent are at they are always able to develop their own style,fashion,beliefs,culturing,mannerisms,and movements, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. For example in Brazil blacks(Africans) have impacted significantly on Brazilian culture(Capoiera,Cambolde religion,Brazilian Funk,Carnival,etc),in London blacks from the Caribbean even impacted on the population there the first skinheads where derived from the Ska culture of Caribbean blacks. I know without a doubt that blacks in LA HAVE DEVELOPED THE BULK OF THEIR OWN CULTURE without other black outside influence and LA chicano influence.


Now


There are major distortions made on this thread by both sides of the argument
I had to rectify a few things,

a small thing but what happened to eses riding the olde schools now I see them with suv's with fat ass rims, high priced locs etc. jewelery. see alot of this shit comes from the east coast, blacks in the west adopt it, and it filters to the mexicans around blacks.

How does that come from the east Coast, I know for a fact that east coast dudes weren't sittin on any rims up unitl 99-2000, the closest thing these dudes were riding on shiny was called chrome, but it was basically factory made hub caps for cars , that every one else had. In fact I don't even think even till this day that riding rims,daytons,20s,and 25s are the big in NYC, they recently started getting on that trend in 2000 to now, and it is still not that wide spread out there.

Rims ,20s,daytons,15s,16s,are something westcoast dudes help spread nation wide,and but is often overlooked,although I know we were riding rims and elbows in H town for a long time ,LA dudes definitely impacted us with their twist on it.

Also how weren't west coast dudes wearing jewelry, jewelry can be worn and adorned every where no matter what race or creed....

I know pimps of LA were on central ave and even vermont in SC way back in the 40s and 50s ,and they had jewelry,

I even know in the 80s the dope dealers of LA were big on jewerly.There style of jewelry was somewhat different from the east coast also ,I think West Coast slim chains and east coast were wearing big gaudy rope chains. I don't know though, it seems west coast hustlers and bangers are wearing the big gold rope chains now for some reason.

]What we should really say is the down south and east coast blacks got some gang influence from WC blacks by proxy of Chicano influences,but [bhell East coast and midwest blacks have been influencing Mexicans and alot more, by proxy of WC blacks for decades[/b] -with slang, zoot suits, oldies, hip hop and hip hop grafitti (not taking away from chicno gang grafitti) etc.
And its hard to put blacks up against Mexicans, because a multitude of blacks influence American culture not just AA's (as we know NY the other major trendsetter has many blacks from the islands, and Latin America), but its not like latinos under one banner are influencing american culture, it's Mexicans, or PR's, or Cubans, etc.

This is what I was saying you want to know the real reason why the West Coast is not getting their respect its because many people think that the west coast only brought gang bangin on to the scene. Like rags were the only thing west coast G's brought ,but I know for a fact that birds , the heaters ,and many other things have been brought to the Mid West and South all on the behalf of west Coast bangers.

The US or first National arrest records for crack occur in LA I think it goes back to 82, I know for fact that sherm and PCP was a west coast trademark that made its way all the way out to DC on behalf of LA pushers, and I know for a fact that West Coast was big on pushing good smoke(weed) to other parts of the country since they get connects through the Pacific,Mexico and Southern Polynesia.

There is without a doubt that banging and slanging go hand and hand ,I don't care what anybody says, of course you are going to have some individuals from the hood are not going to be slangin on the block , because them dudes is about fuckin off and screwing around no matter what it was, but contrary to popular belief, bangin does involve money to a caerain degree.

With that said there were many west coast Gs who were getting there money and living lavish, I know when they hit H Town ,Dallas,and Fort Worth Tx , in the early 80s them dudes were on riding rims, had their roll neck shirts,velour sweat suits, and jewelry, some of them had benzes,caddies,and beamers and what not.But they had it crackin

From what I know the first LA dudes to bring bangin to my city were not wearing dusty Khakis ,Chucks and white Ts, and just decide to hand dudes a rag and start bangin no thats not how it worked.People ain't start banging like that in the 80s and 90s . Its a lot of ways they brought bangin some it was family ties and some of it was dudes were homeboys from a long time ago but , a lot of time it became a business move, we would be hustling with them niggas and then they would call some of their homeboys from the LA and decide to come out to the city and get in on the action,so it would be like their crew in LA all over again who would go back to their old habits and their old capers, the local niggas would be under the influences of these fools and observe their whole forte.Sooner a later these LA dudes might end up fuckin around and end up in a fight at a club with these fools or they would decide to just get on cause they felt some sort of affinity.

Anyway the LA dudes to hit out of town as I remember some of them were top dolla bosses ,you know.

Blacks move to fast to stay with one thing, Mexicans are more about mantaining tradition.

Blacks maintain tradition too, but we maintain with style.

As far as "L.A. gang graffiti style," you have to be more specific, because east coast gangs, going all the way back to the mid 60's (I can't go back any further), had their fair share of graffiti. Maybe graffiti is a universal thing. So you may have to define exactly what you mean by "L.A gang graffiti style." The tattoos and the old english style of writing-you may be right, for I don't have any info to contradict it, or prove it wrong. I will say though, an older half-brother of mine, back in the late 70's, was a member of the Pirus, and he sported a supposed tat from that set. Likewise I had a cousin, who in the early 80's, was a big dog shot caller in the BGF, and he wore that tat.

(I know his post are old,but I need to make a point)

Exactly graffiti is a universal thing


to be continued.......

[xxx]

these rappers you mentioning, werent trying to look like cholos, what the charlie brown shirt? , dude these rappers are mimicing the Black Gangsters from their Neighborhoods @ that time. There intentions were not to dress up or mimic Cholos.

Intentional or not they were mimicing. There is nothing wrong with mimicing a cool style but please recognize where the style originated.

We kicking a dead dog, there aint no changing minds, especially when you viewing the world threw racial goggle

A simple showing of acknowledgement will make this thread go away.

You Got That

Mexicans were forming Gangs in Los Angeles before Blacks.

Blacks were Never looking like Black Cholos.

We always had our own style and incorporated Chicano Styles in our shit here and there, but never looked,acted, talked, and dressed like fullfledge Cholos.

But at the end of the day, CHicanos laid the Foundation for this gang shit in Los Angeles, then incorporated Black Styles into there shit!

[xxx]

In the beginning of this thread posters have been trying to conclude where and how was the black LA gangster culture conceived .Some posters have theorized that it came from mexican and some have said that it came from out of town from down south,midwest,and east coast.Some say it was a result of hip hop culture.

I now understand why mayguastank,silencioso, and other posters think that blacks in LA got their culture from outsiders,when you say that black LA gangster culture comes from hip hop and dudes out in the east coast and midwest, I don't see why is it hard to understand why Mexicans are not giving Black gangster culture in LA its due respect.First of all any major city you go like Detroit,Chi Town, DC, and the Bay Area; blacks are going to have their own style, that is unique to that area ,that is a certainty, this ain't because of no hip hop or rap videos.


Man I can tell you , that anywhere blacks or people of African descent are at they are always able to develop their own style,fashion,beliefs,culturing,mannerisms,and movements, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. For example in Brazil blacks(Africans) have impacted significantly on Brazilian culture(Capoiera,Cambolde religion,Brazilian Funk,Carnival,etc),in London blacks from the Caribbean even impacted on the population there the first skinheads where derived from the Ska culture of Caribbean blacks. I know without a doubt that blacks in LA HAVE DEVELOPED THE BULK OF THEIR OWN CULTURE without other black outside influence and LA chicano influence.

Its Funny how you dudes want it both ways.

Blacks Hi-jacked the Chicano Gang Cuture locked seal and delivered, then on the flip note you hear the chatter about how different Blacks & Chicanos are, especially in the System, and these difference cause alot of the Racial Tension that Ballons into Riots.

-----------

Ive gone over every Era in my head from the 1940's when the first Big Wave of Black Migration from DOwn South, Midwest, and Back East hit California during World War II looking for jobs in the Military Complex and other Industries to the 2000's.

look at pictures of the Blacks on Central Ave during the Jazz Era 1920's to the 1940's.

I dont see a Chicano or Cholo Element.

---------------

looked at the Gangs that formed before the Crips & Bloods, the Slausons, Businessmen, Gladiators, even been to these Old Gangs Annual Meetings that they still hold til this day, last one i been to was a few years back @ Centinela Park, they bring Yearbooks from Jefferson High & Carver Jr High from the 50's & 60's,you can count the Mexicans on your hands in those books, 5 at the most during that time, they display Pictures of themselves up at South Park.

The Dress Code and Mannerisms very Unique, again, i dont see a Chicano/Cholo Element in they Style.

--------------

The Original Crips & Bloods with their Leather Jackets, Afros, Overalls and Jive Talk, Crip Walking with Ghetto Blasters and looking like Folks of Soul Train and other Blaxipotation Movies of the 1970's.

Again, i dont see the Chicano Influence that everybody is yelling.

--------------

The 1980's in Los angeles, the style & Trends changed over a few times, i can remember the different Hair Styles that evolved, from Afros, Curls, Perms, Braids, Finger Waves, to the Flat Tops, to Pony Tails.

The Clothes Fila Suits, Gucci, Louvitton, Cross Cords,Starch 501, Khakis Slik SHirt, Starter Jackets, Bomper Jackets. Raider Hats, L.A Hats, taking a Team Hat and making it a Gang Hat.

Hip Hop, Breaking, Rapping, DJ'n, Grafitti & Dance Crews. West Coast Pop Lock.

I dont see the Cholo Style that was stolen.

-------------

in the 1990's, the most Black Urban Communities were mimicing The L.A Black Scene, it was a reverse from when Blacks were minicing the New York Scene. Our Brand Of West Coast Culture was World Wide, how can u say L.A Blacks aint Unique when the rest of the Planet was on Us?

-------------------------

i see you trying to say, other Black Ghettos had there own Unique Style, describe those different unique Styles and ill counter with just as many similarities.

If you look at all the Major Cities Blacks had similar Dress Codes, Similar Slang and Jive Talk, listen to the Same Music, Blacks idenified with Blacks, we were all expererince the same shit. Our Roots were the same, no matter if you were from Chicago, New York, Detriot. L.A....

We came from these Places and brought everthing with Us, how we not gonna be similar, thats like saying Chicanos Jack Mexican Culture.

Black Youth Were Mimicing the Dancers on Soul Train, not Caliente.

Black Youth were mimicing the Styles and Talk of Blackexplotation Movies not Telenovelas.

Black Youth been Grouping up ever since they migrated to Urban Cities, thats nothing New.

i do give it up to ESEs on Gang Strikes, hands down have the Hardest Strikes, best Styles and im guilty of incorporating they style in my strikes backin the days. The Tattoo Sleeves are a Chicaco Prison thing that became Popular.The Penotons Khakis and t Shirts, Chicano.

Chicanos/Cholos style was/is way different then the Black Gangster, at the end of the day, we copied from eacother, but kept our unique ways where u can distinguish the Difference in Style, Dress, Talk, Walk, all that.

[perongregory]

There are a few things that need to be said on this thread before there is any kind of common scope of understanding.

I have been reading comments in this thread from the beggining to end, and there are distortions and inconsistencies on both ends of the arguments.


In the beginning of this thread posters have been trying to conclude where and how was the black LA gangster culture conceived .Some posters have theorized that it came from mexican and some have said that it came from out of town from down south,midwest,and east coast.Some say it was a result of hip hop culture.

I now understand why mayguastank,silencioso, and other posters think that blacks in LA got their culture from outsiders,when you say that black LA gangster culture comes from hip hop and dudes out in the east coast and midwest, I don't see why is it hard to understand why Mexicans are not giving Black gangster culture in LA its due respect.First of all any major city you go like Detroit,Chi Town, DC, and the Bay Area; blacks are going to have their own style, that is unique to that area ,that is a certainty, this ain't because of no hip hop or rap videos.


Man I can tell you , that anywhere blacks or people of African descent are at they are always able to develop their own style,fashion,beliefs,culturing,mannerisms,and movements, NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. For example in Brazil blacks(Africans) have impacted significantly on Brazilian culture(Capoiera,Cambolde religion,Brazilian Funk,Carnival,etc),in London blacks from the Caribbean even impacted on the population there the first skinheads where derived from the Ska culture of Caribbean blacks. I know without a doubt that blacks in LA HAVE DEVELOPED THE BULK OF THEIR OWN CULTURE without other black outside influence and LA chicano influence.


Now


There are major distortions made on this thread by both sides of the argument
I had to rectify a few things,

a small thing but what happened to eses riding the olde schools now I see them with suv's with fat ass rims, high priced locs etc. jewelery. see alot of this shit comes from the east coast, blacks in the west adopt it, and it filters to the mexicans around blacks.

How does that come from the east Coast, I know for a fact that east coast dudes weren't sittin on any rims up unitl 99-2000, the closest thing these dudes were riding on shiny was called chrome, but it was basically factory made hub caps for cars , that every one else had. In fact I don't even think even till this day that riding rims,daytons,20s,and 25s are the big in NYC, they recently started getting on that trend in 2000 to now, and it is still not that wide spread out there.

Rims ,20s,daytons,15s,16s,are something westcoast dudes help spread nation wide,and but is often overlooked,although I know we were riding rims and elbows in H town for a long time ,LA dudes definitely impacted us with their twist on it.

Also how weren't west coast dudes wearing jewelry, jewelry can be worn and adorned every where no matter what race or creed....

I know pimps of LA were on central ave and even vermont in SC way back in the 40s and 50s ,and they had jewelry,

I even know in the 80s the dope dealers of LA were big on jewerly.There style of jewelry was somewhat different from the east coast also ,I think West Coast slim chains and east coast were wearing big gaudy rope chains. I don't know though, it seems west coast hustlers and bangers are wearing the big gold rope chains now for some reason.

]What we should really say is the down south and east coast blacks got some gang influence from WC blacks by proxy of Chicano influences,but [bhell East coast and midwest blacks have been influencing Mexicans and alot more, by proxy of WC blacks for decades[/b] -with slang, zoot suits, oldies, hip hop and hip hop grafitti (not taking away from chicno gang grafitti) etc.
And its hard to put blacks up against Mexicans, because a multitude of blacks influence American culture not just AA's (as we know NY the other major trendsetter has many blacks from the islands, and Latin America), but its not like latinos under one banner are influencing american culture, it's Mexicans, or PR's, or Cubans, etc.

This is what I was saying you want to know the real reason why the West Coast is not getting their respect its because many people think that the west coast only brought gang bangin on to the scene. Like rags were the only thing west coast G's brought ,but I know for a fact that birds , the heaters ,and many other things have been brought to the Mid West and South all on the behalf of west Coast bangers.

The US or first National arrest records for crack occur in LA I think it goes back to 82, I know for fact that sherm and PCP was a west coast trademark that made its way all the way out to DC on behalf of LA pushers, and I know for a fact that West Coast was big on pushing good smoke(weed) to other parts of the country since they get connects through the Pacific,Mexico and Southern Polynesia.

There is without a doubt that banging and slanging go hand and hand ,I don't care what anybody says, of course you are going to have some individuals from the hood are not going to be slangin on the block , because them dudes is about fuckin off and screwing around no matter what it was, but contrary to popular belief, bangin does involve money to a caerain degree.

With that said there were many west coast Gs who were getting there money and living lavish, I know when they hit H Town ,Dallas,and Fort Worth Tx , in the early 80s them dudes were on riding rims, had their roll neck shirts,velour sweat suits, and jewelry, some of them had benzes,caddies,and beamers and what not.But they had it crackin

From what I know the first LA dudes to bring bangin to my city were not wearing dusty Khakis ,Chucks and white Ts, and just decide to hand dudes a rag and start bangin no thats not how it worked.People ain't start banging like that in the 80s and 90s . Its a lot of ways they brought bangin some it was family ties and some of it was dudes were homeboys from a long time ago but , a lot of time it became a business move, we would be hustling with them niggas and then they would call some of their homeboys from the LA and decide to come out to the city and get in on the action,so it would be like their crew in LA all over again who would go back to their old habits and their old capers, the local niggas would be under the influences of these fools and observe their whole forte.Sooner a later these LA dudes might end up fuckin around and end up in a fight at a club with these fools or they would decide to just get on cause they felt some sort of affinity.

Anyway the LA dudes to hit out of town as I remember some of them were top dolla bosses ,you know.

Blacks move to fast to stay with one thing, Mexicans are more about mantaining tradition.

Blacks maintain tradition too, but we maintain with style.

As far as "L.A. gang graffiti style," you have to be more specific, because east coast gangs, going all the way back to the mid 60's (I can't go back any further), had their fair share of graffiti. Maybe graffiti is a universal thing. So you may have to define exactly what you mean by "L.A gang graffiti style." The tattoos and the old english style of writing-you may be right, for I don't have any info to contradict it, or prove it wrong. I will say though, an older half-brother of mine, back in the late 70's, was a member of the Pirus, and he sported a supposed tat from that set. Likewise I had a cousin, who in the early 80's, was a big dog shot caller in the BGF, and he wore that tat.

(I know his post are old,but I need to make a point)

Exactly graffiti is a universal thing


to be continued.......

Blacks everywhere wear jewelery, I know that. I wasn't sayin all that stuff came from the east coast, but the east coast influences hit out here culturally. I know they do cuz I was going back and forth from the east to LA and seeing months a year later how we were cathcing onto their shit.

[mayugastank]

Ok after the mexicans give aknowledgement to the Irish for modern st gangs and their first gang, and blacks for the zoot suit etc.

XXX made some good points. Acknowledgement. You take the issue as chicanos fingering blacks---not true. If I could finger asians/samoans/ I would but they arent the only other original street undergound culture in America. It would be pointless to debate --whether Samoans did this and that or Asians ( aside from Pinoys who were there from the begining) because all they did was copy what chicanos and blacks did/brought or were. Their is no other race we can actually compete with for these things. Blacks are our only competitors when it comes to origins of fashions/styles/etc.....WEST COAST EAST COAST..........west coast= mexican american fashions into all of white America--so much so that whites have adopted completely the cholo look. EAST COAST=blacks dominate and smother every fashion and style. If you look at the Jersey shore Guidos you'll see .........Shirts and styles with 100% complete throwbacks to Chicano artwork! Our art is a big thing worldwide --those tattoo patterns are EVERYWHERE worn by every race ---either by the tattoo itself or by the shirts designed with cholo patterns. Ed Hardy and company. I am saying cholo art is Americas undergound art ---its transpired continents. Without the cholo art theird be no ED HARDY/STARS AND STRAPS/Kat Von D white girl look alikes/ Dogtown and Zboys skaters/Eazy E flanneled up lowriding the whip.

[mayugastank]

The Tattoo Sleeves are a Chicaco Prison thing that became Popular.....................................

THE BIGGEST IDENTIFIER OF THE CHICANO. His tattoo patterns are EVERYWHERE WORLDWIDE. The stars and straps-Michael Jordan boxes-tapout-UFC-Kat Von D white girls-people assume when they look into a tattoo pattern book that some tattoos naturally belong to everyone. NEGATIVE. Those styles of tattooing that made the whole style of fashion today took off from CHOLOS. It influenced Rockers/Rappers/ and Ed HArdy and company whove put the shit on every shirt worn by Americas Youth today.

Tattoos arent tattoos.....this style that you mention is called fine line black and grey. It developed over the course of 70 years. The Japanese Yukuza style developed over the course of 140 years ----yet we are matched EQUALLY in popularity of artwork. This isnt Mexican Art ----this is Mexican American art. This artform was borne directly from oppression,racism,xenophobia and probable mental conditions from not knowing who the hell you were...am I mexican?american? what do I wear hwo do I speak what do I do? I remeber growing up thinking that only chicanos had tattoos...I remember when I did see whites who were inked that their tattoos were "cholo looking" WHY? because they had done time in the pen along chicanos and had gotten tattooed by them. This style was limited to the Southwest were chicanos resided. To stress how important this is to the movement cannot be oversimplified. Its black music and dance thats made them " the worlds voice". It isnt Africas songs people listen to. Its African Americans.....a type of dance/and beat that developed here due to oppression,racism.xenophobia and probable mental conditions...............we heard it all day when it first developed---dont jack our style-this is african americam-if your another race ask permission......remember Vanilla Ice? New Kids on the block? Kid Frost? all of them caught major grief--major for delving into this black style.

Why didnt all these JR SMITHS' WAYNE'WAKA FLAKA' KID CUDDY'MAINO ( new yorker who knows nothing of chicanos!) ask us permission? they didnt even acknowledge where this art began!!

What about Sublime-vans-Ed HArdy-Paco Chicano-Dogtown Zboys-Chili Peppers.........all of these stars and fashions who cold jacked our entire artwork....to place on shirts/boards/or to design their record covers on?

If we cant patent art why can and did blacks when they were quick to light a fire on anyone. The entire youth fashion movemnet today is filled top down to the brim with Cholo -East Los -Chicano artwork. Yet does MAINO know his neckchain is symbolic to the movement? Or did this New York brother just believe it had no history......

[perongregory]

Kid Frost never got major grief a black introduced him into the game. Vanilla Ice was a fake fraud...White people have been accepted into hip hop since debbie harry and Fab Five Freddy. Stop pulling shit out your ass.

[mayugastank]

xxx

"i see you trying to say, other Black Ghettos had there own Unique Style, describe those different unique Styles and ill counter with just as many similarities.

If you look at all the Major Cities Blacks had similar Dress Codes, Similar Slang and Jive Talk, listen to the Same Music, Blacks idenified with Blacks, we were all expererince the same shit. Our Roots were the same, no matter if you were from Chicago, New York, Detriot. L.A....

We came from these Places and brought everthing with Us, how we not gonna be similar, thats like saying Chicanos Jack Mexican Culture.

Black Youth Were Mimicing the Dancers on Soul Train, not Caliente.

Black Youth were mimicing the Styles and Talk of Blackexplotation Movies not Telenovelas.

Black Youth been Grouping up ever since they migrated to Urban Cities, thats nothing New.

i do give it up to ESEs on Gang Strikes, hands down have the Hardest Strikes, best Styles and im guilty of incorporating they style in my strikes backin the days. The Tattoo Sleeves are a Chicaco Prison thing that became Popular.The Penotons Khakis and t Shirts, Chicano.

EXACTLY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what I been saying.............same styles for blacks nationwide coast to coast.........differences were minute compared to the similarities......this style can be labeled NEW YORK UNDERGROUND HIP HOP ............everywhere across black America as I saw it blacks were similiar in fashion/dress/speak/dancing/music..........everywhere................EXCEPT in Los Angelos were they were graffing and lowriding and getting inked up like and ben davisd' out and dickied out and flagging and stacking....like the cholo who they borrowed from...............THE REASON this black style took over black America during the 1990s was because it was so dam different from other blacks nationwide. It was different because much of it was chicano originated. I dont remember ever seeing a lowriding/mural on the car/flanneled out/tatted upside the neck with cholo caligraphy (far removed from english caligraphy) ...............video of any black across the USA at anytime. Maybe Im wrong.

[ViciousRidah]

Blacks move to fast to stay with one thing, Mexicans are more about mantaining tradition.

By saying blacks don't have tradition is not substantial,blacks always have maintained tradition with style,even with gangs you can see it.Gangs of the Chi have always been savyy and languished in style while maintaining tradition doing it.They maintain laws, codes, and creeds and you can see this with the Folks and Peoples,while being saucy.

The same could be true even for some gangs in LA despite the critics on both sides here, in the 70s Crips and Bloods had their own distinct look that was very different from any other era, they would sport leather coats, heavy starched jeans, fedoras,golf hats, v necks and brim hats.In the 80s & 90s both the Crips and bloods had their own style as well as the folks and peoples.

Despite opinions on both sides , there has been some kind of cohesiveness and structure maintained in black gangs ,at least when mentioning with gangs of the Chi Town, even up until this day. The reason why you have a lot of monkey business going on is because the BS is at an all time high within the hood.

As far as "L.A. gang graffiti style," you have to be more specific, because east coast gangs, going all the way back to the mid 60's (I can't go back any further), had their fair share of graffiti. Maybe graffiti is a universal thing. So you may have to define exactly what you mean by "L.A gang graffiti style." The tattoos and the old english style of writing-you may be right, for I don't have any info to contradict it, or prove it wrong. I will say though, an older half-brother of mine, back in the late 70's, was a member of the Pirus, and he sported a supposed tat from that set. Likewise I had a cousin, who in the early 80's, was a big dog shot caller in the BGF, and he wore that tat.

Graffiti in NYC didn't become en vogue until the early 70s and I'm not sure if it was a gang thing.I already explained this above. Also not any east coast gang that I know of ,goes back to the 60s, there are organizations like the 5 percenters may go all the way back to 1960s and there is also the Zulu nation that goes back to the 70s but they are in no way gangs, they did not even gain prominence throughout the demographics of NYC.

But again, with few exceptions, the traditional, or original L.A. gangster gear, from all available evidence (if by traditional, you're referring strictly to white ts, khakis, pendleton shirts, croker sack shoes, and the like, being referred to as cholo gear, codified by chicanos/mexicans), was codified by mexicans/chicanos.


In the case of L.A., despite what mexicans contributed to gang culture, or being the first gang members in L.A., I know one thing: L.A. GANG CULTURE OVERALL, HAS A STRONG DOSE OF DARK CHOCOLATE CULTURAL INFLUENCES, WITHOUT WHICH OVERALL, L.A. GANG CULTURE, OR L.A., WOULDN'T BE L.A., NOR HAVE THAT L.A/WEST COAST MYSTIQUE.

What do you mean by traditional West Coast mystique, because brothers in the Bay and LA all have their own distinct look.

The other thing is that gang culture does not encompass all of LA culture ,even though it compose major part in the lifestyle. They are hustlers,pimps,hoes,jackers, black nationalist,pushers,boost men, con artist that all have their own kind swang with it in LA.

Not one is know for having the same look.

And even with the west coast ,would you say that is also the situation with the Bay, as I know with the Bay dudes are known to drive cutlasses on zeniths,coup deville,mustangs ,cougars,have side shows, pimp strong on hoes,have turf gangs, and other kind of bizness, west coast gang bangin does not encompass the whole ''west coast'' lifestyle nor does it give it that west coast mystique.

With that said in the above, right now-the predominate fashion statement in L.A. today, isn't the "cholo" codified gear, as much as it is east coast hip hop gear. This is the same gear I peeped in the very late 80's, on the east coast, and very early 90's, which was a distinct style from that west coast, and specifically "cholo" look. Likewise, the rap videos that were coming from the west back in those days (i.e. NWA, The DOC, ATL, etc.), the cats weren't really dressing in baggy or sagging clothing. I'm talking about the time period of 89 - 91. Furthermore, the west coast look and mystique, when it comes to fashion, really didn't penetrate the east coast fashion ethos.

Back during this specific time period, back east, you had black cats wearing sagging pants, and clothing that imitated if anythng, that "grunge" hobo/homeless look, with oversized/baggy pants, big coats with hoods, hoodies (which was always in style), timbalands, marine recon headgear, etc. All of this was different from what folks, namely black folks, back west were dressing like.

True enough, these cats wore baggy and somewhat oversized clothing, to an extent, but it wasn't similar to what black folks or mexicans were wearing out west at the time.)


Simply put, as some idiot suggested before, when I posted such info on this site, you can believe I'm making this up all you want to, but unless you got out of your comfort zone, and left the west coast, and lived back east during the time frames between 89 and 91, then folks have no authority to refute, or put into legitimate question, my information.

As a matter of fact, anyone from the east coast, who can remember the timeframe I referring to, can easily vouch for what I'm saying as being true 100%.

Sagging became the trend every where even all out in the south 80s and 90s. Just because it wasn't in a NWA video don't mean it wasn't there either, Dr Dre used to wear a Shiny white Doctor suit, that don't mean every body in Compton dressed like that back in the day.

I would say the sagging became prominent in the late 80s and early 90s everywhere, maybe it was because of Hammer, or some rappers don't know why, but I doubt it, sagging was all through out the hoods nationwide, back in day.
I should know also because I have lived on the east coast in Brooklyn, Fort Greene in my younger days.

In other words, a lot eses today don't dress like classic cholos from back in the day, and neither do black gang bangers, in these contemporary times, even in L.A. If anything, one can say that L.A. street fashion is a fusion of east-coast hip-hop gear, with residues of cholo influences, which is basically that west coast flavor (I say "west coast" flavor because black folks in L.A., again, fused and imprinted their own cultural stamp onto the fashions they appropriated from the codification of cholo styles, similar to how mexicans did the same thing, when it came to appropriating other cultural styles, to come up with the cholo styles).

That's the problem ,of why these chicanos are not saying the LA gangsters developed there own culture when you are saying LA street fashion is a fusion of east coast Hip Hop gear. Just because somebody is sporting a clothing in a rap video doesn't mean that's the first time it was worn , in fact ,I would say the instance is contrary,the clothing people sport in rap videos is due to what they say in their neighborhoods and environment.

You also have to take in to account that east coast hip hop culture was infused with a lot of 70s soul funk culture that was that was already preexistent .For example the Kangol hat was a article of style that black nationalist wore in the 70s called Berets , in fact some Panthers and other black nationalist might of worn Kangol berets themselves,the track suits and velour suits that was worn in rap videos,was something worn in the 70s by black gangsters I know cause my uncles were wearing them, bucket hats were also worn in the 70s was also around before rap videos, then there is the the army belts worn by some breakers also worn by black gangsters previously in the 70s,Pro Keds which was also worn by other hip hop pioneers was also done in the 70s by blacks in the community it also became a trend , the skippys ( kicks that were worn in NYC)was equivalent to chucks that was also worn in the 70s in the black community.Also even with jeans that was worn in the hood before hip hop,I could also name other instances .So there is no such thing as hip hop fashion or hip hop introducing in any kind of fashion really because hip hop was just a bigger extension of black soul-funk era of the 70s.

Now with the so called hip hop elements,let me explain,

''B Boy Fashion'' I already explained the origins of this fashion in the black community above.

''Breakin'' is to some extent original ,but its still incorporates a lot of elements of pop locking which was first done on the West Coast by the Bungaloos.Also many distinct moves of breakin were already done.

''DJ'ing'' is something I don't understand as being original because your are just playing a record, of course you have ''scratchin'' incorporated into it but who cares, a nice beat is a nice cut, sampling records and playing records till they literally get played out(pun intended) does not constitute creativity in my view.You are taking records that have already been produced by another artist or engineer,to call it your own and make money off of it, and that is thievery,its no wonder why these hip hop pioneers were sued for sampling many records, add to fact they ran out of stuff to sample because they cannot create their own hot beats.

''Rappin'' is something that was started since the days of the Macs and Pimps, it really comes from the saying of rapping to a girl, the most preeminent dudes to rap to women would be players and macks who would usually rhyme when they talk.
You can also see this on Rudy Ray Moore's(Dolemite) records which have the rhymes and punch lines.

Some other speculators claim rapping came from ''toasting' which is what reggae and early dancehall artist did on records,if you listen to reggae artist today and back you can see why reggae artist performing on records are similar to rappers peforming, I have parentage from the Caribbean and I can attest to this.

Some also say rappin came from the black political poets of the 70s who rhyme,some even put on records.

''Graffiti'' I already explained that previously in other post.

Remember, the black population contained two strains: THE COUNTRY BUMPKIN TYPES, AND THE ESTABLISHED URBANIZED TYPE (i.e. city slicker), AND THOSE, REGARDLESS OF THE TYPE, WHO BROUGHT ASPECTS OF BLACK CULTURE FROM THE MIDWEST, AND EAST COAST, and even from the south, to a great extent.

Grant it, this may have represented a large portion of the blacks they ran across in East L.A., but if you were to even go back to the 20’s, especially 30’s, black folks in L.A. already had an established hip culture, that was rooted in black mid west, but especially, east coast culture,

This is similar to ese gangs of today, attaching themselves onto east coast hip hop culture, via black west coast gang culture, and street culture, of the late 80’s and 90’s. Just as black hip culture of the 30’s, gave eses back in the day a boost and a face lift, so did black west coast gang and street culture of the 80’s and 90’s, give eses a face lift and a boost.

Not all southern cities had what you call bumpkins, if your going to say we were country then fine, but there are cities in the South like Houston, Dallas,Charlotte,ATL ,New Orleans and definitely Miami that are not slow in action. Even with New Orleans, you know it has impacted black culture everywhere immensely in the 1920s, since the black culture of the 1920s emerged there ,Jazz ,Pimpin and hoein, con game and festivities originate in New Orleans.

Houston also had it on and crackin ,the ''swangin and cruisin,'' has been in popularity in Houston for a long time,since Chicanos have always lived out here , they help to transmute some of their tight ass rides and whips of lowriders to the black playas of H town.

Your right when you say that blacks in LA may have already established their own culture in LA,which is why I don't understand you saying that many dudes from the east coast ,mid west, and down south helped to develop LA black culture.Blacks anywhere develop their own culture period.

If anything I would say LA culture is rooted in the South as many residents and say they have roots in Alabama,some call it ''little bama''. You also have many dudes in LA coming from Louisiana ,Alabama and Mississippi who migrated there from way back,I would also suspect the Midwest dudes came to LA also,since the dialect and slang of many West Coast dudes is similar to that of dudes in the Midwest more than the south.

In conclusion many southerners west of the Mississippi migrated to LA,dudes on the east coast never migrated to LA en masse in no era of no time, in any kind of way, the only great migration of black New Yorkers I know ,is them moving to New Jersey and Southern I 95 states,this is also not a major wave of migration, more over it is also a recent migration in the last decade.Most black folk on the east coast have southern roots east of the Mississippi, in states like South Carolina,North Carolina, Virginia,Georgia,and Florida as opposed to the blacks of the Chi Town ,Detroit, and LA.Of course there some west of the Mississippi but not on a great level.

But I suspect a great deal that many aspects of LA culture came about indigenously and came about from their own local evolution of living in LA.

The period when black gangs borrowed from cholos was fairly brief, basically the early to mid 1980's. After that the influences on L.A. gang culture (black, cholo and pretty much everybody else) were mostly from hip hop sources. First from the classic b-boy style and then later the gangster style.

Why would you say its hip hop sources,I would agree now from 2005 to now that is LA bangers are influenced by hip hop having rope gold chains, spike chains from hangin at the side of your pants,vans,flamed v-neck t shirts ,tight skinny jeans, but thats a different story ,black LA ridas and LA dudes nationwide have taken the aspirations from hip hop and where is hip hop looking to ,rock n roll,look at all rap artist making rock n roll songs in the past decade,that is something I will elaborate on a little later.

But I know when I went to LA in the early 90s and 2000s I would not dare iterate that the style of LA g's was because of hip hop influence, remember even with hip hop ,it is depiction of what goes on in the hood,art imitates life,therefore artist interpret reality.

[ViciousRidah]

Its Funny how you dudes want it both ways.

Your going to have to quote me on that one, not once in this thread did I say that CHicano culture did not influence black culture and vice versa. You can look at my previous post in this thread and in other threads ,ask mayugastank and Bullettxxx, I never said that Chicano culture did not greatly impact black bangers in LA, I in fact I reaffirmed that chicano culture influenced blacks and black culture influenced chicano culture as well,feel free to go back and retract my quotes if you like.

What I was trying to state,was that many posters in this thread were saying that most elements of LA banger style and fashion was from hip hop or east coast culture.Some said it came from the South and Mid-West .And it looked to me like you guys were saying , that since it didn't come from chicanos it had to come from some where else ,and they just postulated it came from the east coast, why did the black bangers in LA have to bite it from somewhere,whether it be Chicano or Black, how come nobody is saying that black banger style in LA had emerged indigenously and manifested from the black LA locals psyche on its own.




[




--------------

The Original Crips & Bloods with their Leather Jackets, Afros, Overalls and Jive Talk, Crip Walking with Ghetto Blasters and looking like Folks of Soul Train and other Blaxipotation Movies of the 1970's.

Again, i dont see the Chicano Influence that everybody is yelling.


What's ghetto blasters?

This is coinciding with what I said in another thread ''Chicano Tattoo on Blacks'' , I was trying to convey that many of the beginning elements of hip hop incorporate many aspects of funk and soul. Prior to hip hop ,NYC was somewhat devoid of musical and artist talent, that was influential in the ghettos across the nation,despite Harlem being the a black capital at the time.Of course today that black capital title has faded.

--------------

The 1980's in Los angeles, the style & Trends changed over a few times, i can remember the different Hair Styles that evolved, from Afros, Curls, Perms, Braids, Finger Waves, to the Flat Tops, to Pony Tails.

The Clothes Fila Suits, Gucci, Louvitton, Cross Cords,Starch 501, Khakis Slik SHirt, Starter Jackets, Bomper Jackets. Raider Hats, L.A Hats, taking a Team Hat and making it a Gang Hat.

Hip Hop, Breaking, Rapping, DJ'n, Grafitti & Dance Crews. West Coast Pop Lock.

I dont see the Cholo Style that was stolen.

This is what I was trying to explain earlier, I've seen and recounted many tales of the gang bangin scene in LA from friends,cousins and family ,OGs,veterens,online articles,documentaries, pictures,and other sources.

I don't know if Loui Voutton and Gucci was a thing of LA bangers. From the pics I've seen and my recounting of LA bangers fashion was really Puma shoes,Fred Perry Shirts,track suits (Kennigton ,Speedo, West 1) Velour track suits,suspenders, army belts,leather jackets,murder 1 shades(Locs),Khaki pants,Starch Denims,Jump suits made of Khaki,fitted hats, snap back hats, brim hats, Adidas Sweat Suits,corn rolls ,permed hair,and of course your all star chucks.I know for a fact that these articles of clothing go back to the 70s before hip hop, because I specifically know my uncles and cousins to wear track suits,khakis,velour suits and puma shoes in the 70s and 80s in the south. They probably didn't wear the hard denim ,khakis,and plaid shirts but I know they worn this cause they were all through out the south.

In the 70s the black bangers were were wearing some V neck shirts,golf hats,veteran army jackets,leather coats,slack suits,knit jump suits,steel toes,brims,fedoras,permed shirley temples,Afros and beret caps.They also sported track suits and velour suits from what I came across.

I already explained the emergence of hip hop, its really an extension of the 70s soul funk era and is definitely completely based on it.

Now even with your explanation of saying that crips and bloods emulated the blaxpoitation 70s and soul train era, you would know that the majority of the fashion on soul train were articles of clothing that was already done in the black community since for ever, of course the blaxpoitaition and soul train only polarized it.

in the 1990's, the most Black Urban Communities were mimicing The L.A Black Scene, it was a reverse from when Blacks were minicing the New York Scene. Our Brand Of West Coast Culture was World Wide, how can u say L.A Blacks aint Unique when the rest of the Planet was on Us?
i see you trying to say, other Black Ghettos had there own Unique Style, describe those different unique Styles and ill counter with just as many similarities.

Of course ,there are cultures that you can muster up to have their similarities and affinities , you can say that in Europe and US we both wear shirts and pants, were in west Africa they were garbs and kente clothing, but even in the Europe there are complete differences on how we sport things in the US,just because we wear pants and shirts don't mean we wear the exact same things.

In the 80s and 90s I recall many brothers in the south ,midwest and West Coast having similar styles of clothing. On the east coast they were some what different, its crazy because on the east coast they were fronts in the south many Gs had grills.

In the south we had way out braids and rode old schools in the east coast they had cornrolls and dredds in the 1990s.

But the south came out with their own stuff in the 90s like with the candy paint and dunk old schools. But over all we impacted the country in the 1920s and 1930s because it was the south who developed the Zoot Suits,slangs,and mannerism that went to the Chi Town,NYC, Detroit and LA.

If you look at all the Major Cities Blacks had similar Dress Codes, Similar Slang and Jive Talk, listen to the Same Music, Blacks idenified with Blacks, we were all expererince the same shit. Our Roots were the same, no matter if you were from Chicago, New York, Detriot. L.A....

Not exactly even though you can draw similarities there were definitely some things different especially when dealing with the East Coast style and fashion.

The East Coast since the late 1970s ,1980s, and 1990s have always been amongst themselves. This is Philly,NJ,Baltimore,and Boston.They were relatively on to themselves although in the 80s and 90s they may have interacted very much with the Southern states on the eastern seaboard in other wards on the I 95 they did not have the same get down with those southern states.

East coast hustlers in the 80s did have their own unique style like wearing MGMs,Louis Vutton,Rope Chains, and Nike Uptowns,They drove Saabis and Beamers.

The west coast hustlers were wearing velour suits (Sergio Tacchinni and Speedo),permed out hair, puma shoes,steel toe or wing tip shoes, sometimes Mauri shoues ,track suits,herring bones,and slim chains.West coast hustlers drove benzes and beamers,but also pushed a lot old school whips and coups.Devilles and Chevies with daytons on them.

Chicago hustlers were wearing Gibrauds ,Hilfiger,leather pants,Hats to the left or right ,or rolled up pants on left or right
I can't really elaborate too much on how chicago hustlers sported their style but it was very distinct.


But my point is everything is not everything,although there are certain cities and certain regions with style have similarities, that does not mean everything is all the same.

And the point is that east coast hip hop or east coast playas in general do not factor in with the south or Midwest prior to 2000s and even now. Cause a lot of stuff they were doing on TV like wearing Fila suits,Dolce ,and Gabbana, and Christine Dior glasses was something already done in the ghetto like the Midwest in the 80s ,believe it or not.

They just were on music videos with it first. Hip Hop and rap is not the advent of modern black culture,since black culture in the ghetto evolved on its own.Hip hop also did not introduce black America to style in modern times.

When you say that it did

this is the end result.

EAST COAST=blacks dominate and smother every fashion and style.

L.A. gang culture (black, cholo and pretty much everybody else) were mostly from hip hop sources.

[ViciousRidah]

Blacks everywhere wear jewelery, I know that. I wasn't sayin all that stuff came from the east coast, but the east coast influences hit out here culturally. I know they do because I was going back and forth from the east to LA and seeing months a year later how we were cathcing onto their shit.

I know brothers on the east coast had their own style of jewelry, they were best known for their rope chains, but LA and the south were wearing them slim chains and heringbones when it comes to Jewelry.

But at the same time in the 1990s we see the advent of modern chains with the pendants for Example it was Death Row that was the first rap label to stamp and make their chain a trademark in their camp, it was then copied by bad boy and other labels, so the modern styles for rocking chain is more of a West Coast thing.

You're going to have to let me know. What have east coast dudes influenced specifically out there ?


I would say that in 2005 till now in 2011 LA blacks are very much under the influence of hip hop and the east coast but not prior to 2000 , and there is a difference . but ask yourself what is hip hop in now a days, it adds elements from rock n roll, ed hardy shirts,chains on paints,skateboarding,the nerdy glasses ,tight skinny jeans,fruity shirts,and v neck geek sweaters and even gold ropes, that is in no way original since it has already been done before.Add to insult it has already been done before in the white community, since when do blacks mimic white culture of America, that is a major draw back.

In the 90s in LA I noticed that the small things taken for granted on the West Coast,like wearing plain colored T's under button downed shirts,under football jerseys,under,khaki shirts and even under other shirts, this was in the 90s I didn't start seeing brothers in NYC do this till the 2000s.

I also did not see brothers rolling their socks up in the 1990s on the east coast now they do , they also started wearing khaki suits they did from 2002 to 2007, they also weren't riding on rims or swangin in old schools ,how in the hell are they original .I've also noticed that they are starting to wear grills,although in the 1990s the east coast G;s were wearing fronts to different things.

Dudes also did not start popping their collar till later on the east coast,so I am not getting on how many things from the East coast were later transported to the West Coast.Remember we are not speaking of the weak 2000s because this is the most repulsive and most pathetic era for blacks in America, and I would say very much that NYC via ATL and Miami is influence now all across America but look at what it has done.


Your going to have to name exactly what instances that east coast blacks influenced the West in the 1990s?

[ViciousRidah]

EXACTLY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what I been saying.............same styles for blacks nationwide coast to coast.........differences were minute compared to the similarities......this style can be labeled NEW YORK UNDERGROUND HIP HOP ............everywhere across black America as I saw it blacks were similiar in fashion/dress/speak/dancing/music..........everywhere................EXCEPT in Los Angelos were they were graffing and lowriding and getting inked up like and ben davisd' out and dickied out and flagging and stacking....like the cholo who they borrowed from...............THE REASON this black style took over black America during the 1990s was because it was so dam different from other blacks nationwide. It was different because much of it was chicano originated. I dont remember ever seeing a lowriding/mural on the car/flanneled out/tatted upside the neck with cholo caligraphy (far removed from english caligraphy) ...............video of any black across the USA at anytime. Maybe Im wrong.

Blacks nationwide from coast to coast do have their own distinguished still,even whites would know this.If anybody who has really been spot to spot ,city to city, would know figure this out,even in Chicago you can see the Chicanos get down and their style different from that of the chicanos in LA. Maybe in a region blacks are very much the same ,like the east coast, but when talking about from coast to coast ,south to midwest, they are definitely not the same.Even if they do live in the same region like ATL to Houston in the south, you would very much see that blacks out there do have their own style.

Blacks across Africa all have their own distinct style even if they live in the same countries or states, so of course blacks from coast to coast in America would have their own style,hope you hearit.

[ViciousRidah]

*would figure this out-line 2 first paragraph

*blacks in Africa have their own distinct culture (not their own distinct style) ,so of course blacks in the US from coast to coast would be different.-first sentence second paragraph