The politics of Mental retardation

These concepts are socially constructed and have been given much weight. What are your thoughts?
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The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » December 13th, 2009, 5:01 pm

# African-American students are 2.9 times more likely than Caucasian students to be labeled as mentally retarded
(NABSE & ILIAD Project, 2002)

# African-American individuals comprise almost 15% of the total population but comprise an average of 34% of students identified as mentally retarded
(NABSE & ILIAD Project, 2002)

Standard scores

* 130 and above Very Superior
* 120-129 Superior
* 110-119 High Average
* 90-109 Average
* 80-89 Low Average
* 70-79 Borderline
* 69 and below Impaired (Mentally Retarded range)

African American mean
Caucasian mean

88.60 (13.05)
103.45 (13.84)

Full Scale IQ
88.49 (14.12)
102.94 (14.13)

Performance IQ
90.73 (12.72)
103.60 (14.18)

Image

THE POLITICS OF MENTAL RETARDATION: A TAIL OF THE BELL CURVE

Political movements have victims, and the cause of diversity is no exception. Whites, Asians and males are all casualties of the diversicrat, but his most deplorable incivility makes victims of the hapless. If anyone should deny the politicization of mental retardation, let him confront the data presented herein.

The life of a diversicrat is disagreeable. He is surrounded by irritants. Of them, he finds none more unsettling than race, particularly racial differences. He confronts them daily, on the athletic field, in the classroom, in the workplace and on the street. Most prickly are IQ differences. Intelligence, after all, is the hallmark of our species. The diversicrat twists and strains to explain IQ gaps away, abandoning parsimony for convolution. But he does not stop with explication. He is an ideological crusader. And like most crusades, this one has victims. Sadly, they include the ill-starred and hapless mentally retarded. Their wretched malady is secondary to the fact that they are asymmetrically black.

Nature-nurture issues do not concern us here. We ask how, not why. We accept racial IQ incongruities as facts, noting only that efforts to erase them have failed. The average IQ of East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans) is about 1/3 standard deviation (SD) or about 5 IQ points higher than that of Europeans. Ashkenazic Jews score higher still. Their mean IQ is about 15 IQ points above that of non-Hispanic whites. In the US, the African American with a mean score of 85 is at the bottom of the cognitive deck. He thus finds himself disproportionately represented among the ranks of the retarded. All this is anathema to the diversicrat.

The black-white IQ gap has been studied and analyzed for more than 80 years. It has outlived sweeping attitude changes, from extreme anti-black discrimination to bias against whites, Asians and males. The billion-dollar Head Start budget has not dented it. Though IQ scores have been rising worldwide for decades (the Flynn effect) the cognitive distance between blacks and whites has remained remarkably constant. In fact, the 1 SD black-white IQ gap is as close to a fundamental sociological constant as we come.

When the IQ of non-Hispanic whites is normalized to a mean of 100 and SD of 15, the African American mean falls at about 85 with an SD of about 13.5. The black IQ distribution both lags behind and is narrower than the white. The small difference in width manifests itself significantly at the bell curve extremes, reducing both the numbers of retarded and exceptional blacks.

Figure 1 shows IQ distribution curves for African Americans and non-Hispanic whites. The areas under the curves are normalized to unity, so that the narrower black distribution appears taller. Two standard deviations from each side of the white mean mark IQ boundaries for retardation and giftedness. Outside these borders, in the shaded regions, are the cognitive extremes. There, the areas under the curves represent the fractions of each group who meet IQ criteria for retardation or giftedness. (Most striking is the tiny black representation in the gifted region.) The ratio of areas shows blacks to be 6.1 times more likely than whites to fall below the boundary for retardation, and 53 times less likely to be gifted. So profound are the group differences that they are apparent to the man in the street, who observes a profusion of African Americans at the bottom of the economic and educational ladders, and a scarcity at the top.

Bell Curve Extremes
At the left tail of the IQ distribution we find the mentally deficient. They mostly are unable to cope with the challenges of life. As children, they require specialized educational services. When the bell curve is politicized these poor souls suffer. We will see how the diversicrat, unable to tolerate racial differences in retardation rates, has worked a miracle cure.

The diversicrat's goal of eliminating racial disparities extends to both tails of the bell curve. On the right he has inflicted less damage. After all, it is more difficult to harm the gifted than the backward. Nevertheless, racial imbalance in programs for gifted and talented students catch his eye. He pressures local school districts to diversify them. Florida's response is typical. When not enough "disadvantaged minorities" show up in programs for exceptional students, Florida kicks in with Plan B (no kidding -- that is what they call it). Plan B makes use of additional criteria such as "leadership potential," "performance evaluation" and "statements of need." It is hard to get worked up about gifted and near gifted children. We know in the long run they will turn out well. We focus instead on the left tail of the bell curve where the real damage occurs.


Lourdes Comes to Washington
The diversicrat has a powerful ally in the US Government. Through its Office for Civil Rights (OCR) the Department of Education demands that mentally retarded children be represented in proportion to the racial makeup of the school. OCR regards racial imbalance as discrimination, and thus illegal. Eliminating disparities of race among the ranks of the mentally retarded is among the OCR's highest priorities. The curves of Figure 1 demonstrate just how difficult OCR's task is.

The education and psychology communities have responded to OCR pressure by reclassifying mentally retarded children -- bureaucracy's version of a cure. Efforts of the Department of Education have reduced the number of mentally retarded children in public schools from approximately 2.2 percent to less than 1.3 percent. The process took less than two decades. Millions of children of all races have been reclassified. They no longer receive appropriate educational services specifically earmarked for the retarded. Jane Burnette in ERIC Digest #E566 describes the curative secret. "Reducing overrepresentation is a matter of creating a successful school environment for all students and accurately distinguishing disabilities from cultural differences." Figure 2 shows graphically how a dose of Government medicine rendered almost half the country's retarded children whole again.

A Brief History of Mental Retardation
As old as man himself, mental retardation defied precise definition until the development of psychometric tools. An early (1910) scheme introduced by the American Association on Mental Deficiency (AAMD) identified levels of retardation by comparing the afflicted at maturity to children at various levels of development. Idiots functioned as 2 year olds, imbeciles between 2 and 7 years, and morons between 7 and 12 years. These terms are now obsolete and considered offensive.

Psychologists recognized fairly early that cognitive deficiency alone does not satisfactorily characterize mental retardation. People with comparably low cognitive capacity often differ in their ability to adapt to the challenges of daily life. A three-part definition of mental retardation evolved to address this issue. It includes childhood onset, cognitive deficiency, and inadequate adaptive behavior. Though this definition preceded the diversicrat, he was quick to use it to his advantage.

With the development of the IQ test by Alfred Binet in 1905, it became possible to quantify intellectual shortcomings. The test dramatically altered methods of diagnosis and classification, and soon became the principal tool for diagnosing mental retardation. By mid-century two of the three criteria for defining mental retardation, cognitive deficiency and age of onset, could be accurately determined, but the assessment of adaptive behavior relied largely on subjective evaluation. Today, the assessment of adaptive behavior still remains fuzzy enough for the diversicrat to work his miracles.

In 1959, AAMD set the IQ threshold for mental retardation at < 85. The civil rights movement of the next decade forced psychologists to rethink this boundary, because half the African American population fell below it. In 1973, responding to this concern, AAMD (by then AAMR) changed the threshold for retardation from IQ < 85 to IQ < 70. The boundary moved south by one standard deviation! The proportion of blacks below the threshold instantly dropped from about 50 percent to 12 percent. Subsequent refinements made it still more difficult to meet the criteria for retardation.

When Binet in 1905 produced the first IQ test, it promised to revolutionize the diagnosis and treatment of mental retardation. A half century later it came under attack for reasons Binet could not have imagined. Could any of the pioneer psychometricians have foreseen Larry P. v. Riles (1979), a California class-action suit that focused on IQ testing of young black children? The court held that IQ tests were not valid for African Americans. It banned California from using the tests for placing black students in classes for the "educable mentally retarded" or equivalent categories on the grounds that the tests were biased. After a series of appeals, the district court ruled that no special education related purposes exist for which IQ tests could be administered to black pupils. Though only a California ruling, the case began a political assault on standardized testing that has spread beyond the IQ test to college entrance exams, promotional exams and more.


A Case History of Government Intervention
In 1996, The Office for Civil Rights placed 16 school districts nationwide under review for potential discrimination. The districts were charged with violating the civil rights of minorities, especially African Americans, because blacks were found to be overrepresented in special education programs, especially those for the mentally retarded. Five of the 16 districts were in Maryland. Ironically, Maryland is a very liberal state very much in tune with the goals of the Civil Rights Office. Maryland is also almost 30 percent black. The offending districts included Baltimore, Howard, Harford, Montgomery and Prince Georges counties.

OCR detectives uncovered "discrimination" by looking at school records. The offending data appear in Table 1. The irritant is in the last column. Black children were classified as retarded at 1.5 to 2.2 times the rate of whites. OCR ordered the counties to find a "remedy."
County Enrollment Percent of
Total Enrollment Number
Retarded Percent
Classified Retarded B/W Ratio of
Percent
Classified Retarded
Baltimore: Black 23,121 23% 331 1.43% 2.21
White 71,667 72% 463 0.646%
Howard: Black 5,572 15% 41 0.736% 2.06
White 27,387 76% 98 0.358%
Harford: Black 4,139 12% 62 1.5% 1.89
White 29,805 84% 236 0.792%
Montgomery: Black 22,170 19% 117 0.528% 1.75
White 66,569 57% 201 0.302%
Prince Georges: Black 83,427 70% 374 0.448% 1.52
White 23,766 20% 69 0.290%
Table 1. Retardation rates in the five Maryland counties cited by the Office for Civil Rights. OCR requires retardation rates to be independent of race.

Current technical literature still reports mental retardation rates at 2 to 3 percent of the general population The incidence of mental retardation in Maryland's offending counties is significantly lower than that. The districts had reduced the number of mentally retarded children even before they were cited. They failed, however, to selectively reduce retardation rates.

Irrespective of race, we note significant variation in the rate of retardation from county to county. With populations this big, uniform criteria should produce uniform retardation rates. Harford County, a semi-rural mostly white county, reports about 3 times the rate of retardation as the more cosmopolitan Montgomery County and the predominantly black Prince Georges County. A child in mostly white Baltimore County is about twice as likely to be retarded as his peer in the also mostly white Howard County. These discrepancies were less troublesome to the Department of Education than racial issues.


Ideal Rates of Retardation
Because the data reveal both racial and nonracial disparities, we decided to compare them with a district that closely followed AAMR guidelines. Knowing of no such district, we constructed a hypothetical one -- Reference County, USA.

Nationally, about 12 percent of African Americans and 2 percent of non-Hispanic whites have IQs < 70. Not all these people, however, are mentally retarded. Prince Georges County, for example, identified 0.448 percent of its black students and 0.290 percent of its white students as retarded, both numbers well below the number with IQ < 70. A simple calculation shows that only 4 percent of black children and 15 percent of the white children with IQ < 70 were found to have sufficient adaptive behavior deficits to warrant classifying them retarded. On the surface it appears that PG County discriminated against whites, since white children were found to have adaptive behavior deficits at almost four times the rate of blacks. That, however, is not the case.

Among blacks and whites with comparable cognitive deficits, blacks generally show a better ability to adapt to the rigors of everyday life. The difference is pronounced. Arthur Jensen observed in The g Factor that black pupils with IQ deficiencies often socially integrate well with their brighter peers. They seem quite normal when engaging in non-cerebral activities like play. In contrast, many cognitively impaired white children have difficulty integrating socially and often have physical abnormalities such as flat-footed gaits. Jensen attributes this racial divergence to different etiologies that are transparent to IQ tests.

Two types of mental retardation can be differentiated. Organic retardation is due to a genetic anomaly or brain damage brought about by disease or trauma. Familial retardation results from normal variations in intelligence. Among whites with IQ < 70, between 25 and 50 percent are diagnosed as organic. Since 2 percent of whites have IQ < 70, 0.5 to 1.0 percent of the entire white population is organically retarded. Jensen estimates that of the blacks with IQ < 70, only 12.5 percent are organically retarded. (We estimate the number closer to 16.7 percent.) Thus for blacks, we expect 16.7 percent of the 12 percent with IQs < 70 to have organic etiologies. That is, about 2.0 percent of the black population at large is organically retarded. Following Jensen, if we associate most of nonadaptive behavior with organic retardation, then Reference County should classify about 2.0 percent of black children and 0.5 to 1.0 percent of white children as mentally retarded. Blacks in Reference County will be retarded at 2 to 4 times the rate of whites. Table 2 compares the offending counties to Reference County.
County Percent
Classified Retarded B/W Ratio of
Percent
Classified Retarded
Baltimore: Black 1.43% 2.21
White 0.646%
Howard: Black 0.736% 2.06
White 0.358%
Harford: Black 1.5% 1.89
White 0.792%
Montgomery: Black 0.528% 1.75
White 0.302%
Prince Georges: Black 0.448% 1.52
White 0.290%
Reference County: Black 2.0% 2.0 to 4.0
White 0.5% to 1.0%
Table 2. Rates of mental retardation found in Maryland's five offending counties compared with the expected rates in Reference County.

From Table 2 we note that the ratio of black to white retarded children is in the expected range for two of the five cited counties, Baltimore and Howard. In two others, Harford and Montgomery, the ratio is only slightly out of bounds. In Prince Georges County the B/W ratio is lower, but still not egregiously so. We safely conclude that the five Maryland school districts did not discriminate against blacks, and that administrators and staff mostly did their jobs conscientiously.

Data in Table 2 also point to a general reluctance to classify any student as retarded, especially if he is black. Only two of the counties, Baltimore and Harford, fell within the expected range for white retardation, 0.5 to 1.0 percent. All of the counties fell below the 2 percent retardation rate expected for blacks. Both sets of numbers reflect the decades-long campaign of the Department of Education to "cure" mental retardation.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by youngspade » December 13th, 2009, 6:06 pm

You need a life LMAO!

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » December 14th, 2009, 6:02 pm

youngspade wrote:You need a life LMAO!
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Sentenza » December 15th, 2009, 4:00 am

Do you have any sources for that? Because there have been many statistics like this around which have been made up for political purposes.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Sentenza » December 15th, 2009, 4:05 am

The Bell Curve Flattened

Subsequent research has seriously undercut the claims of the controversial best seller.
http://www.slate.com/?id=2416

Even More Bell Curve

From "Lessons from the Bell Curve", by James Heckman, in the Journal of Political Economy, October 1995.

Heckman is no left-wing hack either, and he too gives the authors too much credit for their purity of intent, and ignores the not so subtle racism that Digby discusses below, but here is what he concludes:



The Book fails for five main reasons.

1. The central premise of this book is the empirically incorrect claim that a single factor - g or IQ - that explains linear correlations among test scores is primarily responsible for differences in individual performance in society at large. Below I demonstrate that a single factor can always be constructed that "explains" all correlations in responses to a test or correlations in scores across a battery of tests, but in general this g is not constructed by conventional linear methods. There is much evidence that more than one factor -- as conventionally measured -- is required to explain conventional correlation matrices among test scores. Herrnstein and Murray's measure of IQ is not the same as the g that can be extracted from test scores available in their data set. They do not emphasize how little of the variation in social outcomes is explained by AFQT or g. There is considerable room for factors other than their measure of ability to explain wages and other social outcomes.

2. In their empirical work, the authors assume that AFQT is a measure of immutable native intelligence. In fact, AFQT is an achievement test that can be manipulated by educational interventions. Achievement test embody environmental influences: AFQT scores rise with age and parental socioeconomic status. A person's AFQT score is not an immutable characteristic beyond environmental manipulation.

3. The authors do not perform the cost-benefit analyses needed to evaluate alternative social policies for raising labor market and social skills. Their implicit assumption of an immutable g that is all-powerful in determining social outcomes leads them to disregard a lot of evidence that a variety of relevant labor market and social skills can be improved, even though efforts to boost IQ substantially are notoriously unsuccessful.

4. The authors present no new evidence on the heritability of IQ or other socially productive characteristics. Instead, they demonstrate that IQ is more predictive of differences in social performance than a crude measure of parental environmental influences. This comparison is misleading. It fails to recognize the crudity of their environmental measures and the environmental component that is built into their measure of IQ, which biases the evidence in favor of their position. Moreover, the comparison as they present it is intrinsically meaningless.


5. Finally, the authors' forecast of social trends is pure speculation that does not flow from the analysis presented in their book. Most of the social policy recommendations have an ad hoc flavor to them and do not depend on the analysis that precedes them. The appeal to Murray's version of communitarianism as a solution to the emerging problem of inequality among persons is a deus ex machina flight of fancy that is not credibly justified.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2003/02/eve ... curve.html

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by whiskeyjack » December 15th, 2009, 8:02 am

Whats the thread about, like the jest of it... Theres way to much fucking reading to be doing in this thread and i have ADHD....

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Sentenza » December 15th, 2009, 12:40 pm

whiskeyjack wrote:Whats the thread about, like the jest of it... Theres way to much #%@&#%@ reading to be doing in this thread and i have ADHD....
The initial posting is about a study that tried to prove that black people are less intelligent then white people.

To put it short:
The science behind The Bell Curve has been denounced by both the American Psychological Association and the Human Genome Project. Its authors were unqualified to speak on either genetics or intelligence, since their expertise lay in other fields. Their project did not rise through the usual system of academic publishing, and in fact the authors ducked the process of peer review. The Bell Curve was ultimately funded by the wealthy, far-right Bradley Foundation, which used its media connections to launch a massive national publicity campaign. And The Bell Curve relies heavily on studies that were financed by the Pioneer Fund, a neo-Nazi organization that promotes eugenicist research.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bellcurvescience.htm

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by youngspade » December 15th, 2009, 5:14 pm

Sentenza wrote:
whiskeyjack wrote:Whats the thread about, like the jest of it... Theres way to much #%@&#%@ reading to be doing in this thread and i have ADHD....
The initial posting is about a study that tried to prove that black people are less intelligent then white people.

To put it short:
The science behind The Bell Curve has been denounced by both the American Psychological Association and the Human Genome Project. Its authors were unqualified to speak on either genetics or intelligence, since their expertise lay in other fields. Their project did not rise through the usual system of academic publishing, and in fact the authors ducked the process of peer review. The Bell Curve was ultimately funded by the wealthy, far-right Bradley Foundation, which used its media connections to launch a massive national publicity campaign. And The Bell Curve relies heavily on studies that were financed by the Pioneer Fund, a neo-Nazi organization that promotes eugenicist research.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-bellcurvescience.htm
Your just as stupid as him for RE-posting and explaining the BS even tho someone asked! Your dumb for seeming like YOU believe this shit!


We've invented more shit THAN white people. ALL yall niggaz do is STEAL shit from people like Fireworks from ASIANs in the ANCIENT days ETC ETC

THe list can be longer than the whole foorums topics/posts put together.

GTFO

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Sentenza » December 15th, 2009, 6:16 pm

youngspade wrote:
Your just as stupid as him for RE-posting and explaining the BS even tho someone asked! Your dumb for seeming like YOU believe this shit!


We've invented more shit THAN white people. ALL yall niggaz do is STEAL shit from people like Fireworks from ASIANs in the ANCIENT days ETC ETC

THe list can be longer than the whole foorums topics/posts put together.

GTFO
You didnt understand my posting at all. I just said that this study is politically motivated and founded by racist right wingers to make a point. I do not belong to them, so whats the problem?
Re-read what i posted again.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by youngspade » December 15th, 2009, 6:33 pm

Sentenza wrote:
youngspade wrote:
Your just as stupid as him for RE-posting and explaining the BS even tho someone asked! Your dumb for seeming like YOU believe this shit!


We've invented more shit THAN white people. ALL yall niggaz do is STEAL shit from people like Fireworks from ASIANs in the ANCIENT days ETC ETC

THe list can be longer than the whole foorums topics/posts put together.

GTFO
You didnt understand my posting at all. I just said that this study is politically motivated and founded by racist right wingers to make a point. I do not belong to them, so whats the problem?
Re-read what i posted again.
I did, and what I dont do often anywhere, is AOLOGIZE to you sir!

But my point is, nobody is gunna read that shit so breaking it down makes people read it thats all! It seems like your supportting his theory more than throwing SHIT on top of it!

But Ive always respected your words that why I went so hard......believin you was supporting this GAYNADAIAN

Get it GA-NA-DIAN? LOL

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Sentenza » December 15th, 2009, 6:39 pm

youngspade wrote:
I did, and what I dont do often anywhere, is AOLOGIZE to you sir!

But my point is, nobody is gunna read that shit so breaking it down makes people read it thats all! It seems like your supportting his theory more than throwing SHIT on top of it!
No man, i dont believe that stuff, i think its an ideological study.

But no problem. ;)

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by whiskeyjack » December 15th, 2009, 10:45 pm

All of a sudden im an idiot for ASKING the jest of the info?... wow... And btw its not my theory

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by whiskeyjack » December 15th, 2009, 11:05 pm

nevermind i saw the other post of azure

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Tre » January 23rd, 2010, 6:49 pm

There are multiple intelligence. You have to look at intelligence in terms of PIE(S). Some people have a physical intelligence. Then you have the intellectual thinking, emotional and spiritual intelligence. To pretend only one type of intelligence exists in light of others... actually dumbs you down :roll:

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 28th, 2010, 12:03 pm

Tre wrote:There are multiple intelligence. You have to look at intelligence in terms of PIE(S). Some people have a physical intelligence. Then you have the intellectual thinking, emotional and spiritual intelligence. To pretend only one type of intelligence exists in light of others... actually dumbs you down :roll:
Taking a word like intelligence, and giving it another meaning like Howard Gardner does is hardly scientific. :roll:

NOW! If you can do the unbelievable and actually prove(something Gardner failed to accomplish) that there is any scientific basis behind his theory of multiple intelligences, you can go ahead and do it right in this thread. However, I warn you, this argument has been hashed and re-hashed many, many times, and even Gardner himself has admitted that the basis behind his theory is weak and unscientific.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Tre » January 29th, 2010, 6:51 am

Azure9920 wrote:
Tre wrote:There are multiple intelligence. You have to look at intelligence in terms of PIE(S). Some people have a physical intelligence. Then you have the intellectual thinking, emotional and spiritual intelligence. To pretend only one type of intelligence exists in light of others... actually dumbs you down :roll:
Taking a word like intelligence, and giving it another meaning like Howard Gardner does is hardly scientific. :roll:

NOW! If you can do the unbelievable and actually prove(something Gardner failed to accomplish) that there is any scientific basis behind his theory of multiple intelligences, you can go ahead and do it right in this thread. However, I warn you, this argument has been hashed and re-hashed many, many times, and even Gardner himself has admitted that the basis behind his theory is weak and unscientific.
Neither is it 'scientific' to explain intelligence in terms of ‘race’ which biologically doesn’t even exist. Many of these IQ test and its origins are rooted in a past when it was believed that different races actually existed. Today we know better (or we should), so to explain variances in a IQ test in terms of ‘race’ comes across to me as just racist propaganda.

As far as multiple intelligence, I don’t believe ‘intelligence’ in general can be proven scientifically. I think for a man to believe that whatever crumb of knowledge (intelligence) he possesses is the pinnacle (pie) of all there is…. Is just ignorant!

These studies go both ways you know, there, too have been many studies suggesting just the opposite that blacks are superior to whites. I could flood this section with many, but ultimately I believe we all fall short (are ignorant) in the eye’s of God anyway. Any ‘real’ intelligence comes from God, so how can ‘man’ teach you or test you on something he’s not in possession of himself.


Champions of The Bell Curve: Sit Up and Pay. Attention! In the U.K., African Children Are the Cleverest!
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963147

Blacks Superior To Conservative Radical Right Wing White Regressives –New Study
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.reli ... b?lnk=raot

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by whiskeyjack » January 29th, 2010, 8:05 am

The battle of the old IQ to see who is the wittiest....If your still wondering who is the smarter group then no offense your an idiot. I believe everyone is born with the same potential in whatever they choose to purse as a life goal.Being a doctor, engineer, or one of the too many musicians we have already... The only difference is drive, whose got it and who dont.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 29th, 2010, 11:42 am

Tre wrote:Neither is it 'scientific' to explain intelligence in terms of ‘race’ which biologically doesn’t even exist.
You're opening up an entire argument with this single sentence, and you're entirely incorrect. You have no empirical proof that race is a mere social construct, because it's simply not true. The differences between the races are well documented. It's absolute gibberish to think that the differences between specific groups of humans are rendered void simply because of the negativity "race" has received from bleeding hearts. The actual, scientific evidence supporting the biological reality of race is overwhelming.
These studies go both ways you know, there, too have been many studies suggesting just the opposite that blacks are superior to whites.
The only notable accomplishments of Black people in the modern era are in sports and to a lesser extent music. Sure, I like Michael Jordan and James Brown as much as the next guy, but when you look at things like, oh say the Manhattan project, the automobile or the internet, they are put into perspective. In antiquity, the list of accomplishments rises quite considerably, but pales in comparison to White, and Asian accomplishments within the same period.
Champions of The Bell Curve: Sit Up and Pay. Attention! In the U.K., African Children Are the Cleverest!
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2963147
Hardly an unbiased source, but that is to be expected. However, a snippet of a single article written by a Black man without proper citations is, again, hardly scientific.

Now, luckily academic papers are!

"It is well documented that, controlling for family background, blacks are more likely to enroll in college than whites. This relationship is somewhat deceptive, however. Upon closer examination, we find that blacks are more likely to enroll in college than their white counterparts only among low-SES individuals. Among high SES individuals, this pattern is reversed. We also find that this relationship is strongest in the 1970s and appears to disappear over time; by the 1990s, blacks are no more likely to attend college than whites at any end of the SES distribution."

http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/9310.html

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by cliffard » January 29th, 2010, 12:00 pm

Azure9920 wrote:You have no empirical proof that race is a mere social construct, because it's simply not true. The differences between the races are well documented
documented in what sense and by who?
human genetic material can only vary by 0.1%, of this .1% variance 8% is the difference in genetic material between the races, a nothing amount.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 30th, 2010, 11:58 am

cliffard wrote:human genetic material can only vary by 0.1%, of this .1% variance 8% is the difference in genetic material between the races, a nothing amount.
And yet that "nothing" amount is the cause of a great deal of differences, both physically and otherwise. Strange, eh?

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by cliffard » January 30th, 2010, 7:56 pm

is it? physically the differences are minor, excess melanin to deal with more intense sunlight, different width nostrils to regulate temperature of air taken in (eskimos, africans etc.) i think afro hair lets the head cool quicker as well, mentally what differences are there that can be attributed to race? nurture is much more relevant than nature in that respect

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 31st, 2010, 1:15 am

cliffard wrote:is it? physically the differences are minor, excess melanin to deal with more intense sunlight, different width nostrils to regulate temperature of air taken in (eskimos, africans etc.) i think afro hair lets the head cool quicker as well, mentally what differences are there that can be attributed to race? nurture is much more relevant than nature in that respect
It's way to late to provide a proper answer, but the differences are hardly minor, and extend far beyond what I can talk about in a single post. For example, the dominance of African sprinters is because of a protein that is found in higher concentrations in Blacks compared to White's and Asians. Just one example, but I could name dozens of similar examples. Racially-specific diseases, etc, etc.

As for the mental differences:

Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability - A.Jenson, P.Rushton.

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Tre » January 31st, 2010, 9:24 am

Azure9920 wrote:
As for the mental differences:

Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability - A.Jenson, P.Rushton.

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
Don’t you mean “Thirty Years of Phony History, Pseudo Science and Ethnic Lies" co-authored by white supremacist.
Are you aware that the author of this pseudo-science book (the white supremacist bible) had to write a retraction, apologize that his co-author (P. Rushton) was a well-known white supremacist... racist??

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » January 31st, 2010, 10:55 am

Tre wrote:Don’t you mean “Thirty Years of Phony History, Pseudo Science and Ethnic Lies" co-authored by white supremacist.
Are you aware that the author of this pseudo-science book (the white supremacist bible) had to write a retraction, apologize that his co-author (P. Rushton) was a well-known white supremacist... racist??
Rushton is not a White supremacist, nor would his being a White supremacist discredit academic work in his field. Regardless of his personal beliefs, he is widely regarded as an expert on racial matters, and I would bet all of my possessions that you couldn't provide a proper reason why any information in that book is "phony history, pseudo science and ethnic lies" without pulling the excuse that Rushton is a racist. Someone potentially being a racist doesn't alter facts, nor does it provide a credible argument against his work; unfortunately, you don't have much of an argument besides that, do you? Furthermore, I'd like you to link me to this so called "retraction", I've never heard anything of it, nor can I find any mention of it on the web.

Now if you wanna talk about pseudo-science, your thread about the Olmec's would be a more far suitable place.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by cliffard » January 31st, 2010, 11:44 am

azure i cant be bothered to read that 60 page report on whether blacks have lower iq than whites, you know this rushton dude puts orientals above whites and blacks as well, not only that i find race a weird construct in the states because theres that odd thing shared only by the us and apartheid era south africa, the one drop rule (basically you got one drop black blood youre black) so a great many afro-americans are bi- and multi- racial to start with
be honest i find it a weird construct full stop, not only that do you accept that iq tests are a cast iron way of measuring all kinds of intelligence? i dont, intelligence comes in many forms and is ridiculously hard to quantify to my mind anyway, just as a basic example you must have met people who are really well educated or computer wizards or whatever but have absolutely zero common sense and vice versa, how do you quantify them, cause in both cases a form of intellect is top notch where another form is lacking
i gotta be honest i find this whole debate pretty distasteful, history shows where this kinda shit has led us in the past, with 6 000 000 000 people on this planet and rising we need to find more in common and work together more rather than less
my take on it is all kinds of people are found among all ethnic backgrounds, to see it any other way is blinkered

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by whiskeyjack » January 31st, 2010, 12:39 pm

i agree that no one group is smarter then the other. Take for example the easy calculus class in my university.. You need to take that if you dont understand the hard calculus class.

When i was in that class it was half white and oriental. LOL I was suprised there was more then 1 oriental actually.. The point im getting at is that there not calculators like the people say

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by cliffard » January 31st, 2010, 9:23 pm

dude this shit is a red herring FYI http://www.downarchive.com/.../65707-ch ... 0last.html
also google the flynn effect
saves me arguing the toss....

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Tre » February 2nd, 2010, 5:36 am

Azure9920 wrote:Rushton is not a White supremacist
We’ll his co-author (A. Jenson) believes he is otherwise there would be no need to write a retraction.
Azure9920 wrote:nor would his being a White supremacist discredit academic work in his field. Regardless of his personal beliefs
What his personal beliefs means is that instead of a fair review of all the relevant research on race and intelligence. The academic work (facts) being collected is being interpreted through the viewpoint of one highly biased researcher.
Azure9920 wrote:he is widely regarded as an expert on racial matters, and I would bet all of my possessions that you couldn't provide a proper reason why any information in that book is "phony history, pseudo science and ethnic lies" without pulling the excuse that Rushton is a racist.
Of course I can.... The instrument that Saletan used to IQ sub-Saharan Africans (which is a racist-pejorative term by the way) was an exam called Raven's Progressive Matrices. Now an instrument developed in the west might be able to collect facts (data), but the problem is the interpretation of those facts, especially if it’s seen through the prism of western culture. It’s like a group of Muslims testing Americans on their knowledge of the Koran, and then using the facts to rationalize that “the American people are not only infidels, but mentally retarded as well.”
Azure9920 wrote:Someone potentially being a racist doesn't alter facts, nor does it provide a credible argument against his work; unfortunately, you don't have much of an argument besides that, do you? Furthermore, I'd like you to link me to this so called "retraction", I've never heard anything of it, nor can I find any mention of it on the web.
“For the past five years, J. Philippe Rushton has been president of the Pioneer Fund, an organization dedicated to "the scientific study of heredity and human differences." During this time, the fund has awarded at least $70,000 to the New Century Foundation. To get a flavor of what New Century stands for, check out its publications on crime ("Everyone knows that blacks are dangerous") and heresy ("Unless whites shake off the teachings of racial orthodoxy they will cease to be a distinct people"). New Century publishes a magazine called American Renaissance, which preaches segregation. Rushton routinely speaks at its conferences.
I was negligent in failing to research and report this. I'm sorry. I owe you better than that.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/fr/flyout/
Azure9920 wrote:Now if you wanna talk about pseudo-science, your thread about the Olmec's would be a more far suitable place.
If the Olmecs cite an important historical document (Stela 5) providing the story behind the African migration to America, I have no choice but to take it serious. Just like when an author of a book feels the need to apologize for his best friend and starts to cite racist organizations that he may be affiliated with. I have no choice but to take that serious too.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by Azure9920 » February 2nd, 2010, 1:11 pm

Tre wrote:We’ll his co-author (A. Jenson) believes he is otherwise there would be no need to write a retraction.
I note that you skipped over the part asking for proof of this retraction. Where is this supposed letter? Does it even exist?
What his personal beliefs means is that instead of a fair review of all the relevant research on race and intelligence. The academic work (facts) being collected is being interpreted through the viewpoint of one highly biased researcher.
Can you prove that his personal beliefs cause him to misconstrue the evidence? No?
Of course I can.... The instrument that Saletan used to IQ sub-Saharan Africans (which is a racist-pejorative term by the way) was an exam called Raven's Progressive Matrices. Now an instrument developed in the west might be able to collect facts (data), but the problem is the interpretation of those facts, especially if it’s seen through the prism of western culture. It’s like a group of Muslims testing Americans on their knowledge of the Koran, and then using the facts to rationalize that “the American people are not only infidels, but mentally retarded as well.”
International Journal of Selection and Assessment, 14, 381-384.
“For the past five years, J. Philippe Rushton has been president of the Pioneer Fund, an organization dedicated to "the scientific study of heredity and human differences." During this time, the fund has awarded at least $70,000 to the New Century Foundation. To get a flavor of what New Century stands for, check out its publications on crime ("Everyone knows that blacks are dangerous") and heresy ("Unless whites shake off the teachings of racial orthodoxy they will cease to be a distinct people"). New Century publishes a magazine called American Renaissance, which preaches segregation. Rushton routinely speaks at its conferences.
I was negligent in failing to research and report this. I'm sorry. I owe you better than that.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2178122/fr/flyout/
From what I can gather, that excerpt has absolutely nothing to do with Arthur Jensen. It was written by William Saletan.

Nice attempt to misinform me though, you almost had me.
If the Olmecs cite an important historical document (Stela 5) providing the story behind the African migration to America, I have no choice but to take it serious. Just like when an author of a book feels the need to apologize for his best friend and starts to cite racist organizations that he may be affiliated with. I have no choice but to take that serious too.
The Stela 5 does not conclusively prove that the Olmecs are descendants of African peoples. The "proof" used by Afrocentrist retards is about as much proof as me saying the Stela 5 refers to the Book of Mormon. Now call me crazy, but I don't think you can even prove that the Stela 5 refers to Africa at all.

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Re: The politics of Mental retardation

Unread post by VsichkoEBosh » February 2nd, 2010, 8:08 pm

Of course, I shall claim all famous African kings as my own.

Image

^ I'm guessing genetics doesn't prove political incorrectness.

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