Brutality against Japs during WW2

[Sentenza]

Well, after the Winter War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War) when Finland lost land areas to Soviet Union, the top politicians (right-wing politicians, I must add) in Finland started to talk about "Greater Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Finland) and how all Finnic tribes should be united. In the Continuation War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War) creating the "Greater Finland" was a leading idea among the politicians. And because of that the Commander-in-Chief Mannerheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gusta ... Mannerheim) ordered to put up concentration camps for the Russian civilians. The Finnic people from those areas (Karelians, Ingrians, Kvens) were left alone or given a "green card" to move to Finland, but Russians were put to those camps. At highest there were about 25 000 Russian civilians in those camps and nearly 8 000 people died there. They were not killed, but had very little food and no health care, so people died because of hunger and diseases. And without a doubt Finnish soldiers also killed civilians, but apparently it wasn't systematic. And I must add that the "Greater Finland" idea failed from the beginning as many of the Finnish soldiers refused to cross over the old borderline to actually start to conquer Soviet land.

All in all, I think the only campaign of Finns that could maybe qualify as a genocide was after the Civil War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Civil_War) when the "Whites" (upper class, right-wing people) executed nearly 10 000 "Reds" (poor people/left-wing/communists) and held up to 75 000 of them in concentration camps for years and at least 7 500 of them were killed in hunger and diseases or just executed (notice that those numbers given in the English Wikipedia are way lower than what it was in reality).

Thanks...My only point being was, that savagery is just in some humans independent of race, religion or nationality. But im sure you already knew that.

[mayugastank]

See what gets me is the hypocrisy of this country in labeling people murders -savages and war criminals. After WW2 -they had trials for hundreds of Japenese soldiers and generals concerning war crimes in teh phillipines and elsewhere -but why werent these guys in these pictures brought up on charges? or the soldiers who woud randomly shoot anyone Japenese soldier who tried to surrender? Hypocrisy! totally spinning history trying to make it seem like the Japenese were brutal! These photos were spread all thru Japan during the war showing Americans as the true savages, without honor for even the dead. The batam death march was nothing compared to the amount of Japenese soldiers killed in violation of the Geneva convention. Hiroshima was a war crime if their ever was one -hundred thousand dead -their was not disassociation amongst civilians and combatants there! at least when teh Japenese attacked Pearl Harbor they hit a military installation.

[mayugastank]

News
World news
Film exposes Allies' Pacific war atrocitiesHorrific footage shot during battle with Japanese shows execution of wounded and bayoneting of corpses.
Tweet this Jason Burke The Observer, Sunday 3 June 2001 11.36 BST Article history

For more than half a century they have been portrayed as wholesome heroes who fought in terrible conditions to save the Western way of life from Japanese aggression. But now the savage acts that Allied soldiers were driven to commit in the Pacific theatre are about to be exposed.
Researchers for a TV series to be broadcast on Channel 4 this month have unearthed disturbing and previously unseen footage from the Second World War which had languished forgotten in archives for 57 years.The images are so horrific senior television executives had to be consulted before they were considered fit for broadcast.

The film, shot in colour, was taken by an unknown combat cameraman in 1944 during fighting on the Pacific Island of Peleliu. It includes scenes of American soldiers shooting Japanese wounded as they lie prone on the ground.

In another scene on the Japanese island of Okinawa a year later, a US soldier is filmed dragging a wounded enemy from a hiding place. Although the man has his ankles tied together, two bullets are fired into his knees and then, while he is still moving, shots are fired into his chest and head.

Other footage from Hell in the Pacific shows American soldiers using bayonets to hack at Japanese corpses while looting them. Former servicemen interviewed by researchers spoke of the widespread practice of looting gold teeth from the dead - and sometimes from the living.

Others spoke of units throwing away their bayonets to avoid being ordered by 'over-enthusiastic' officers to charge, and of machine-gunning villages full of civilians and clubbing wounded Japanese soldiers to death as they tried to surrender.

In an incident related by a former marine, soldiers killed a shell-shocked comrade with a shovel for fear his screaming would give away their position.

The revelations will shock many accustomed to the heroic image of American soldiers, particularly given the romantic myth boosted by blockbuster films such as Pearl Harbor, which goes on general release this weekend.

Many cherished British military myths are overturned. Researchers found - contrary to the image of solidarity projected by films such as Bridge over the River Kwai - that in several POW camps prisoners dispensed brutal justice through 'kangaroo courts' to those who collaborated with Japanese guards.

Fred Seiker told interview ers he had presided over a makeshift tribunal in a prison camp on the infamous Burma railway that found a fellow prisoner guilty of betraying a food-smuggling operation to the guards. The man was put to death by being drowned in a communal latrine.

There are also stories of Japanese ears and heads being collected by British-led troops - particularly by Gurkhas and Nigerians.

Neither are the Australians spared. Many witnesses interviewed for the series spoke of large-scale desertions by Australian troops before the fall of Singapore in 1942. One, a soldier with a British Highland regiment, speaks of Australian troops shooting officers who attempted to stop them boarding ships leaving the doomed city.

Historians last week said the new material would surprise many. 'People are often blissfully unaware of what their country and their allies do in a war,' said Dr Antony Best, a lecturer at the London School of Economics. 'Interest in war crimes has been revived by the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia and so actions from 50 or more years ago are increasingly being re-examined.'

Best said many of the antecedents for the brutality of the war in Vietnam - a conflict that has become a byword for atrocities - could be traced to the conflict in the Pacific. 'The truth is that war is an occasion when god-awful things happen,' he said.

Jonathan Lewis, the writer and director of the new series, said at least one marine who had fought in Vietnam reported that the battles on the Pacific islands were the worst. 'These were ordinary men faced with conditions of extraordinary adversity,' he said.

'We have always been told that these kinds of atrocities are aberrations in battle, but the lesson of the Pacific War is that then at least they were the norm. It is not a case of levelling blame. Taboos were forgotten by everyone. That is the way war is conducted, and that's why we have made an anti-war film.'

One US marine, Steve Judd, based on the island of Saipan during some of the fiercest combat of the war, blamed repeated exposure to horrors for some of the Allied excesses.

Judd described how he was ordered to clear some caves. Aware of the Japanese tactic of pretending to surrender before blowing themselves and their captors up with a hidden grenade, he and his team decided to be indiscriminate. 'We just blew it all up. We don't know if there were women and children or whatever, we just blew them up,' he said.

'Some people today will tell you it was cruel and inhumane, but you weren't there - we were.

[cliffard]

sorry but this is a BS argument, if you want to bang on about western cruelty yada yada why not just point to whats been happening in iraq, an unjustified war with hideous effects on civilians and documented cruelty instead of all this nonsense about the japanese in ww2 who without a doubt were aggressive and cruel, the iraqis never bombed pearl harbour, they just had some wmds that blatantly didnt exist...

[Cold Bear]

Follow the basic time line in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan




Meiji Restoration
Main articles: Late Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji Restoration

After two centuries, the seclusion policy, or Sakoku, under the shoguns of the Edo period came to an end when the country was forced open to trade by the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854.

The following years saw increased foreign trade and interaction; commercial treaties between the Tokugawa Shogunate and Western countries were signed. In large part due to the humiliating terms of these Unequal Treaties, the Shogunate soon faced internal hostility, which materialized into a radical, xenophobic movement, the sonnō jōi (literally "Revere the Emperor, expel the barbarians").[3]

----------------------------------------
Convention of Kanagawa


On March 31, 1854, the Convention of Kanagawa (日米和親条約, Nichibei Washin Jōyaku?, "America-Japan Treaty of Amity and Friendship") or Kanagawa Treaty (神奈川条約, Kanagawa Jōyaku?) was concluded between Commodore Matthew C. Perry of the U.S. Navy and the Tokugawa shogunate. The treaty opened the Japanese ports of Shimoda and Hakodate to United States trade and guaranteed the safety of shipwrecked U.S. sailors; however, the treaty did not create a basis for establishing a permanent residence in these locations.[1] The treaty did establish a foundation for the Americans to maintain a permanent consul in Shimoda. The arrival of the fleet would trigger the end of Japan's 200 year policy of seclusion (Sakoku).[2]

Perry initially refused to deal with Japanese officials and demanded to speak with the Japanese Head of State. At the time, Shogun Tokugawa Ieyoshi was the de-facto ruler of Japan; for the Emperor to interact in any way with foreigners was out of the question. Perry concluded the treaty with representatives of the Shogun, and the text was reluctantly endorsed subsequently by Emperor Komei.[3]

The Kanagawa treaty was followed by the United States-Japan Treaty of Amity and Commerce, the "Harris Treaty" of 1858, which allowed the establishment of foreign concessions, extraterritoriality for foreigners, and minimal import taxes for foreign goods. The Japanese would chafe under the "unequal treaty system" which characterized Asian and western relations during this period.[4]

The Kanagawa treaty became a significant causative factor leading to serious internal conflicts within Japan — an upheaval which was only resolved in 1867 with the end of the Tokugawa shogunate and the beginning of the Meiji Restoration.[citation needed] Similar treaties were subsequently negotiated by the Russians, the French, and the British.[citation needed]

[Sentenza]

See what gets me is the hypocrisy of this country in labeling people murders -savages and war criminals. After WW2 -they had trials for hundreds of Japenese soldiers and generals concerning war crimes in teh phillipines and elsewhere -but why werent these guys in these pictures brought up on charges? or the soldiers who woud randomly shoot anyone Japenese soldier who tried to surrender? Hypocrisy! totally spinning history trying to make it seem like the Japenese were brutal! These photos were spread all thru Japan during the war showing Americans as the true savages, without honor for even the dead. The batam death march was nothing compared to the amount of Japenese soldiers killed in violation of the Geneva convention. Hiroshima was a war crime if their ever was one -hundred thousand dead -their was not disassociation amongst civilians and combatants there! at least when teh Japenese attacked Pearl Harbor they hit a military installation.

There is no doubt that the Allies committed several war crimes too. And they werent all that nice as they portray themselves either.
But the winner writes history. If you ask me Hiroshima and Nagasaki both were huge war crimes because it was an intended mass killing of innocent civilians.
But it is also clear without a doubt that the japanese committed endless war crimes especially in China. Ask the Chinese, it is still a very sensitive issue there and resentment against japan is widespread because of this history.
The biggest massacre in world history was committed by the japanese, its called the Rape of Nanjing. The picutres i already posted are photos from the aftermath.

[whiskeyjack]

Follow the basic time line in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Japan




Meiji Restoration
Main articles: Late Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji Restoration

After two centuries, the seclusion policy, or Sakoku, under the shoguns of the Edo period came to an end when the country was forced open to trade by the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854.

The following years saw increased foreign trade and interaction; commercial treaties between the Tokugawa Shogunate and Western countries were signed. In large part due to the humiliating terms of these Unequal Treaties, the Shogunate soon faced internal hostility, which materialized into a radical, xenophobic movement, the sonnō jōi (literally "Revere the Emperor, expel the barbarians").[3]

----------------------------------------
Convention of Kanagawa


On March 31, 1854, the Convention of Kanagawa (日米和親条約, Nichibei Washin Jōyaku?, "America-Japan Treaty of Amity and Friendship") or Kanagawa Treaty (神奈川条約, Kanagawa Jōyaku?) was concluded between Commodore Matthew C. Perry of the U.S. Navy and the Tokugawa shogunate. The treaty opened the Japanese ports of Shimoda and Hakodate to United States trade and guaranteed the safety of shipwrecked U.S. sailors; however, the treaty did not create a basis for establishing a permanent residence in these locations.[1] The treaty did establish a foundation for the Americans to maintain a permanent consul in Shimoda. The arrival of the fleet would trigger the end of Japan's 200 year policy of seclusion (Sakoku).[2]

Perry initially refused to deal with Japanese officials and demanded to speak with the Japanese Head of State. At the time, Shogun Tokugawa Ieyoshi was the de-facto ruler of Japan; for the Emperor to interact in any way with foreigners was out of the question. Perry concluded the treaty with representatives of the Shogun, and the text was reluctantly endorsed subsequently by Emperor Komei.[3]

The Kanagawa treaty was followed by the United States-Japan Treaty of Amity and Commerce, the "Harris Treaty" of 1858, which allowed the establishment of foreign concessions, extraterritoriality for foreigners, and minimal import taxes for foreign goods. The Japanese would chafe under the "unequal treaty system" which characterized Asian and western relations during this period.[4]

The Kanagawa treaty became a significant causative factor leading to serious internal conflicts within Japan — an upheaval which was only resolved in 1867 with the end of the Tokugawa shogunate and the beginning of the Meiji Restoration.[citation needed] Similar treaties were subsequently negotiated by the Russians, the French, and the British.[citation needed]

Look this doesnt help your argument. The japanese before this bit of history were complete pricks and assholes to the koreans and chinesse there is no escaping it. They initiated their own form of imperialism on their neighbours like any other group of humans. The koreans only managed to beat them out of their country after they beat them at sea with their turtle ships... (technology saved another culture).....


Dont drop history lessons on people who actually know their history

[mayugastank]

In 1919, Japan proposed a clause on racial equality to be included in the League of Nations covenant at the Paris Peace Conference. The clause was rejected by several Western countries and was not forwarded for larger discussion at the full meeting of the conference. The rejection was an important factor in the coming years in turning Japan away from cooperation with West and toward nationalistic policies.[17] The Anglo-Japanese Alliance was ended in 1923




What got me about coldbears post was this line here! Had the European countries accepted -"others" as more then animals then this war wouldve probably never happened. But the european enforced a belief in supremacy which allowed Japan to whitewash their crimes in Manchuria.After all if Europeans believed that some races are inherently better -then why should Japan feel any different for the chinese? Its that European hypocrisy that just boils me-teh double speak and finger pointing and always righteous attitude while at the same time committing the worst crimes ever known to man! If we are going to be EVIl then lets just be upfront! Oh but europeans dont know what up front means-maybe why they always stab people in teh back instead of to their faces -its that womanly attitude about them-that back biting bickering and gossiping femenist trait! One of the reasons they have been able to win wars is because REAL MEN have a hard time understanding a man who behaves like a woman!

[mayugastank]

Sentenza


The (2) videos you are posting are complete opposites-one plays up the " rape of nanjing" and the other discounts it by calling the photographs forgerys! The 2nd film questioning whether or not NANJING actually happened was FAR more convincing! The photos supporting nanjing are clearly doctored and teh 2nd film shows it in great detail...........both your films brings ot ming the saying that" THERE ARE 2 SIDES TO EVERY STORY".........anyways thanks alot for confusing the shit outta me!!!

[mayugastank]

Sentenza,

Maybe I am not understanding how you feel about Nanjing, The second film you posted was very convincing in that -it discounts alot of what China says happened in WW2 -I actually came away -believing Nanjing never happened. It seems as though the teaching of nanjing was and is a new invention meaning that up until recently -it wasnt discussed or talked about and alot of the pictures and scenes China has put out as relevent are in reality irrelevant. That photo with the baby by the bombed out train tracks is one I had seen forever and after watching the second film -I was left with doubts about the whole history of Japans acts during WW2 in China. It seems that that famous picture actually has a Japenese soldier removing the child out of harms way and into a safe spot,but the Chinese doctored it to cut the Jap soldier out! Also many of the photos came from Wars not located in China at all! Some were from the Japenese and Russian war......good videos* though.

[Cold Bear]

In 1919, Japan proposed a clause on racial equality to be included in the League of Nations covenant at the Paris Peace Conference. The clause was rejected by several Western countries and was not forwarded for larger discussion at the full meeting of the conference. The rejection was an important factor in the coming years in turning Japan away from cooperation with West and toward nationalistic policies.[17] The Anglo-Japanese Alliance was ended in 1923




What got me about coldbears post was this line here! Had the European countries accepted -"others" as more then animals then this war wouldve probably never happened. But the european enforced a belief in supremacy which allowed Japan to whitewash their crimes in Manchuria.After all if Europeans believed that some races are inherently better -then why should Japan feel any different for the chinese? Its that European hypocrisy that just boils me-teh double speak and finger pointing and always righteous attitude while at the same time committing the worst crimes ever known to man!

That's exactly my point.

Whineyjack knows his history all right but unfortunately what's written in the books and taught in Western schools is one side of the story.

We all know the winner writes the history books.

That's how it works.

Read the clear delineation of events once again and tell me how my original statement is wrong. The Japanese imitated the ideology and imperialistic tendencies of the West as a reaction the West's imperialism in Asia. A 200 year policy of seclusion and non-interference in neighboring countries running previous is more than you can say about the United States with their long covert interference with South and Central American politics and economics. The only case brought so far to the contrary is Sentenza's mention of Japan's "Invasion" of Korea in 1592 which was a series of battles occurring over 6! years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_i ... %931598%29

Read this right here and tell me how this shit differs at all from what Europeans were doing with each other for centuries. Warring amongst themselves.

To use this 'invasion' is another way for whites to demonize Japanese in order to as Mayuga put it 'whitewash' their own imperialism and savagery is what's disturbing.

So yeah do some more knowledge whineyjack LOL

[whiskeyjack]

wow you dont think the nanking massacre never happened

what do you kids learn in school in america?

Whineyjack knows his history all right but unfortunately what's written in the books and taught in Western schools is one side of the story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_unde ... nfiscation

Prior to the annexation of Korea, from around the time of the First Sino-Japanese War, Japanese merchants began settling in towns and cities in Korea seeking economic opportunity. By 1910, the number of Japanese settlers in Korea reached over 170,000, creating the largest overseas Japanese community in the world at the time.

Many Japanese settlers were interested in acquiring agricultural land in Korea even before Japanese land ownership was officially legalized in 1906. Governor-General Terauchi Masatake facilitated settlement through land reform, which proved extremely unpopular with most of the Korean population.

at least your not insulting my skin colour... Your growing up.... And what they did at the time was imperialism, you just dont want to believe it....

You guys want to believe that the japanese were helping their fellow asians by massacring them

[Cold Bear]

Whineyjack I'm a grown ass man with little time to spare arguing with you fam.

I insult your skin color because you are so sensitive about it.

That's nice what you posted, but it's after the fact You're quoting something from 1910 which just supports my initial claim.

Soooooooo once again

It does not detract from the crimes and cruelty of Japan

It merely contextualizes it.

[whiskeyjack]

what i dont get is that you think the japanese get a pass for the shit they committed

[Cold Bear]

You got a itchy emoticon finger bud

Nobody said that they get a pass we are saying that Whites have gotten a pass for years in their own history books while the rest of the planet is dehumanized and demonized

Do yourself a favor and revoke your own pass and learn to shut your mouth once in a while

[whiskeyjack]

You got a itchy emoticon finger bud

Nobody said that they get a pass we are saying that Whites have gotten a pass for years in their own history books while the rest of the planet is dehumanized and demonized

Do yourself a favor and revoke your own pass and learn to shut your mouth once in a while

alright, i thoguth you and mayuagastank were trying to give them the pass, alright ill step out of this conversation

[Sentenza]

What got me about coldbears post was this line here! Had the European countries accepted -"others" as more then animals then this war wouldve probably never happened.

That is not exactly what was written there:

On April 11, 1919, the commission held a final session and the proposal received a majority vote, with British Australia opposing.

The chairman, President Wilson, overturned it saying that although the proposal had been approved by a clear majority, that in this particular matter, strong opposition had manifested itself, and that on this issue a unanimous vote would be required. This strong opposition came from the British delegation because it contradicted Australia's White Australia policy.

The proposal received a majority vote on the day.[3] 11 out of the 17 delegates present voted in favor to its amendment to the charter, and no negative vote was taken. The votes for the amendment tallied thus:

* Japan (2) Yes
* France (2) Yes
* Italy (2) Yes
* Brazil (1) Yes
* China (1) Yes
* Greece (1) Yes
* Serbia (1) Yes
* Czechoslovakia (1) Yes

Total: 11 Yes

* British Empire (2) - Not Registered
* United States (2) - Not Registered
* Portugal (1) - Not Registered
* Romania (1) - Not Registered
* Belgium (2) - absent[8]

As such, this point could be listed among the many causes of conflict which lead to World War II, which were left unaddressed at the close of World War I. The rejection of the racial equality clause provoked important factor in turning Japan away from cooperation with West and toward nationalistic policies.

British power politics prevented this from happening.

Also Japanese Imperialism caused outrage in China

The Japanese claim to Shandong was disputed by the Chinese. In 1914 at the outset of World War I Japan had seized the territory granted to Germany in 1897. They also seized the German islands in the Pacific north of the equator. In 1917, Japan had made secret agreements with Britain, France and Italy as regards their annexation of these territories.

Chinese outrage over this provision led to demonstrations known as the May Fourth Movement. The Pacific islands north of the equator became a class C mandate administered by Japan.

On the afternoon of May 4 over 3,000 students of Peking University and other schools gathered together in front of Tiananmen and held a demonstration. The general opinion was that the Chinese government was "spineless"[1]. They voiced their anger at the Allied betrayal of China and the government's inability to secure Chinese interests in the conference. A boycott of Japanese products during this period was advocated, which boosted the domestic Chinese industry slightly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Fourth_Movement

Chinese Students and Anti-Japanese Protests, Past and Present
http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/arti ... strom.html

The rest is history.

[Sentenza]

Sentenza,

Maybe I am not understanding how you feel about Nanjing, The second film you posted was very convincing in that -it discounts alot of what China says happened in WW2 -I actually came away -believing Nanjing never happened. It seems as though the teaching of nanjing was and is a new invention meaning that up until recently -it wasnt discussed or talked about and alot of the pictures and scenes China has put out as relevent are in reality irrelevant. That photo with the baby by the bombed out train tracks is one I had seen forever and after watching the second film -I was left with doubts about the whole history of Japans acts during WW2 in China. It seems that that famous picture actually has a Japenese soldier removing the child out of harms way and into a safe spot,but the Chinese doctored it to cut the Jap soldier out! Also many of the photos came from Wars not located in China at all! Some were from the Japenese and Russian war......good videos* though.

My opinion is that it did happen and that Japan committed some serious war crimes during WW2.
Along with Germany, the Soviet Union, GB and the US and both parties of the Chinese civil war (Guomindang and Red Army). So basically everyone did. The perpetrators always try to downplay it. Tehre are germans denying the holocaust, ameriacns saying the nuking of Japan wasnt a crime and japanese who claim they have been all nice to the chinese.
Well 10 Million (!) chinese civilians didnt just vanish like that no? There is overwhelming evidence and proof, eywitnesses and even videos of what the japanese did in China.
Since you seem to want to make it a white vs. asian issue, it doesnt make the rest of the crimes better.
But japan wasnt forced to pull a genocide on China. You could justify any genocide like that.
They didnt have to deport 1000ds of Korean women and imprison them in rape camps for their soldiers.
Comfort women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

They werent forced to do experiments on chinese and korean slave workers:


Or they werent forced to have hundreds of thousands of korean slave workers work for their Zaibatsu corporations which made a fortune of the misery of those slave workers.

Mitsubishi, Nissan, Fujita and Kawasaki ring a bell? They made Billions of chinese and korean slave work. Talking about reparations. They never even admitted to it which caused regular riots in China.

The Korean minority in Japan (about 800,000) also bears witness to these crimes and are still discriminated today.

Chinese hatred and distrust for japan runs deep and is widespread among common people.

Here is a chinese Rap Song about that time, sent to me by a chinese Friend:



It say in the description of the Video:
The general meaning of the Lyrics: No matter how long the time passed, the wound would never disappear, tears still Boiling. Somebody, something, some history,we could never forget.

Does all this take away from crimes other nations committed? of course not.

Have Americans and others written history in their favour? Of course.

But all this doesnt change the fact, that Japan turned Asia into a slaughterhouse and committed nameles crimes and chinese and korean anger about that testify this fact.

[Sentenza]

Read the clear delineation of events once again and tell me how my original statement is wrong. The Japanese imitated the ideology and imperialistic tendencies of the West as a reaction the West's imperialism in Asia. A 200 year policy of seclusion and non-interference in neighboring countries running previous is more than you can say about the United States with their long covert interference with South and Central American politics and economics. The only case brought so far to the contrary is Sentenza's mention of Japan's "Invasion" of Korea in 1592 which was a series of battles occurring over 6! years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_i ... %931598%29

Read this right here and tell me how this shit differs at all from what Europeans were doing with each other for centuries. Warring amongst themselves.

To use this 'invasion' is another way for whites to demonize Japanese in order to as Mayuga put it 'whitewash' their own imperialism and savagery is what's disturbing.

I would say it doesnt make sense to weigh all these things against each other or to demonize anyone. But the claim that Japan and its neighbours coexisted peacefully before the europeans came is unsustainable.
Humans are humans and humans wage war, are greedy, cruel, try to conquer land etc. The japanese are no exception to this.
I dont know in which way they are demonized in the US, to me they are a high culture which is pretty interesting.

But here is a more detailed list of wars involving Japan and its neighbours (im not even mentioning the asian mainland countries which were took part in more wars then japan, because of Japans nature as an island. Japan has a very long record of civil wars though). But here we go:

The military history of Japan is characterised by a long period of feudal wars, followed by domestic stability, and then rampant Imperialism. It culminates with Japan's defeat by the Allies in World War II. Since then, Japan's constitution has prohibited the use of military force to wage war against other countries.

Jōmon Period (ca. 10,000 - 300 BC)
Near the end of the Jōmon period (ca. 300 BC), villages and towns became surrounded by moats and wooden fences due to increasing violence within or between communities.

Yayoi Period

The transition from the Jōmon to Yayoi, and later to the Yamato, period is likely to have been characterized by violent struggle as the natives were soon displaced by the invaders and their vastly superior military technology

The 14 CE invasion of Silla (新羅, Shiragi in Japanese), one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea, is the earliest Japanese military action recorded in Samguk Sagi. According to that record, Wa (the proto-Japanese nation) sent one hundred ships and sacked the coastal area of Silla before being driven off.

Yamato Period (250 - 710 AD)

Yamato Japan had close relations with the southwestern Korean kingdom of Baekje from which it received Buddhism and Chinese writing. When Baekje requested help from the Japanese, they were then defeated by an alliance of Tang China and Silla in Battle of Baekgang in 663. As a result, the Japanese were banished from the Korean Peninsula. To defend the Japanese Archipelago, a military base was constructed in Dazaifu, Fukuoka of Kyushu.

The Battle of Baekgang (白村江) took place in 663 AD, near the conclusion of the Korean Three Kingdoms period. The Nihonshoki records that Yamato sent 32,000 troops and 1,000 ships to support Baekje against the Silla-Tang force. However, these ships were intercepted by a Silla-Tang fleet and defeated. Baekje, without aid and surrounded by Silla and Tang forces on the land, collapsed. A hostile Silla (Silla was a rival of Baekje, and as Baekje had a close relationship with Wa Japan, Silla viewed Wa Japan also as a rival and was hostile to it) prevented Japan from having any further meaningful contact with the Korean Peninsula until far later in time. The Japanese then turned directly to China.

According to the Nihon Shoki, Empress Jingū is said to have invaded Korea in the 3rd century, and to have returned victorious after three years.

The first major references to Japanese naval actions against other Asian powers occur in the accounts of the Mongol invasions of Japan by Kublai Khan in 1281. Japan had no navy which could seriously challenge the Mongol navy, so most of the action took place on Japanese land. Groups of samurai, transported on small coastal boats, are recorded to have boarded, taken over and burned several ships of the Mongol navy.

During the following centuries, wakō pirates became very active plundering the coast of the Chinese Empire. Though the term wakō translates directly to "Japanese pirates," Japanese were far from the only sailors to harass shipping and ports in China and other parts of Asia in this period, and the term thus more accurately includes these non-Japanese as well. The first raid by wakō on record occurred in the summer of 1223, on the south coast of Goryeo. At the peak of wakō activity around the end of the 14th century, fleets of 300 to 500 ships, transporting several hundred horsemen and several thousand soldiers, would raid the coast of China.

The battle of Hakusukinoe (白村江), one of the earliest historical events in Japan's naval history, outside the realm of legend or myth, took place in 663. Japan sent 32,000 troops and possibly as much as 1,000 ships to Korea to support the declining Baekje kingdom (百済国) against Silla and T'ang Dynasty China. They were defeated by the T'ang-Silla combined force.[/quote]

Invasions of Korea and the Ryūkyūs

In 1592 and again in 1598, Toyotomi Hideyoshi organized invasions of Korea using some 9,200 ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_i ... %931598%29

Invasion of the Ryūkyūs

In 1609, Shimazu Tadatsune, Lord of Satsuma, invaded the southern islands of Ryūkyū (modern Okinawa) with a fleet of 13 junks and 2,500 samurai, thereby establishing suzerainty over the islands. They faced little opposition from the Ryukyuans, who lacked any significant military capabilities, and who were ordered by King Shō Nei to surrender peacefully rather than suffer the loss of precious lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Japan

[mayugastank]

Sentenza ,


Exaggerating numbers of dead for sympathy is a common war trait. The chinese according to your OTHER video -didnt invoke "nanjing massacre till the fall of communism in other states in the late 90s" ....the figure you presented 8 million from just the last few searches Ive done is on the high end -not only that the true number has never been fully investigated or defined. China hasnt even done a thorough search for remains or investigated the atrcoities. The term " The rape of nanjing" is the title of a book, sponsored by the communist party-and written by a woman who only heard 3rd hand accounts. Besides that you posted several pictures who you attributed to the massacre at Nanjing-but -the previous video shows them to be completely doctored. Another thing out of 137 common pictures on Nanjing.....over 100 are proven to have happened in other Wars -some were pictures of the Japenese Russo war .

[Sentenza]

Sentenza ,


Exaggerating numbers of dead for sympathy is a common war trait. The chinese according to your OTHER video -didnt invoke "nanjing massacre till the fall of communism in other states in the late 90s" ....the figure you presented 8 million from just the last few searches Ive done is on the high end -not only that the true number has never been fully investigated or defined. China hasnt even done a thorough search for remains or investigated the atrcoities. The term " The rape of nanjing" is the title of a book, sponsored by the communist party-and written by a woman who only heard 3rd hand accounts. Besides that you posted several pictures who you attributed to the massacre at Nanjing-but -the previous video shows them to be completely doctored. Another thing out of 137 common pictures on Nanjing.....over 100 are proven to have happened in other Wars -some were pictures of the Japenese Russo war .

Here you have some estimates:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Japanese

# Japanese [make link]:

* China and Korea
o Nanking Massacre, 13 Dec. 1937-Feb. 38:
+ Spence, The Search for Modern China: 42,000
+ Gilbert: >200,000 civilians and 90,000 POWs
+ Dict.Wars: 200,000
+ Rummel: 200,000
+ P. Johnson: 200-300,000
+ 27 Aug 2001 Newsweek, quoting Japanese textbook: "The number of dead is said to be over 100,000 and it is estimated to be over 300,000 in China."
+ Palmowski, Dictionary of 20th Century World History: "perhaps as many as" 400,000
+ Iris Chang, The Rape of Nanking (1997) cites these:
# Liu Fang-chu: 430,000
# James Yin & Shi Young: 400,000
# Sun Zhaiwei: 377,400 corpses disposed of
# Wu Tien-wei: 340,000
# District Court of Nanking: 300,000
# International Military Tribunal of the Far East: 260,000
# Fujiwara Akira: 200,000
# John Rabe: 50,000-60,000
# Hata Ikuhiko: 38,000-42,000
+ [Median: 260,000]
o Unit 731, Manchukuo (bio-warfare center: 1937-45)
+ Discovery Channel: "as many as 200,000 people — Chinese soldiers, private citizens and prisoners of war — had died" [http://dsc.discovery.com/anthology/spot ... tory2.html]
+ Global Security: Up to 3,000 died in this facility. Perhaps as many 200,000 Chinese died from germ war campaign in Yunnan Province, Ningbo, and Changde. [http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/japan/bw.htm]
o Bombing: 71,105 Chinese k. by Japanese bombing (Clodfelter)
* South East Asia and East Indies
o Bataan Death March, 1942
o Burma-Siam Railroad, worker deaths (1941-43)
+ Johnson: 16,000 POWs
+ Our Times, also Gilbert: 50,000 Burmese civilians and 16,000 Allied POWs
+ Grenville: 100,000 Asians and 16,000 Europeans
+ 7 February 2002 AP: 50,000 Asian laborers and 16,000 Allied POWs
o Manila Massacre, 1944-45
o East Timor
+ James Dunn, in Century of Genocide, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997)): 70,000 died under Japanese occupation
+ 19 May 2002 San Gabriel Valley Tribune: "January 1942: Japan occupies the entire island. With support from the local people, Australian commandos in East Timor battle Japan. Japanese reprisals kill 60,000 civilians 13 percent of East Timor's population."
o Dutch East Indies: 25,000 Dutch d. out of 140,000 imprisoned (3 Feb. 1998 Agence France Presse)
o Singapore, citizens (mostly Chinese) massacred, 1942
+ Japan Economic Newswire/Kyodo News Service
# 16 June 2004: 50,000-100,000
# 13 Aug. 1984: Report by Allies after WW2 est. 5,000 k. Families claim 40,000-50,000
+ Associated Press
# 30 July 1995: "The Japanese military said 6,000 were killed. Singaporeans put the death toll at 50,000."
# 12 Sept 1995: 30,000-40,000
+ National Archives of Singapore: 8,600 reported. "[T]here were many more." [http://www.s1942.org.sg/dir_defence7.htm]
+ Grenville: 5,000
+ LC: 5,000-25,000 [http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/sgtoc.html]
+ [ANALYSIS: There's no consensus. I have 5 low estimates ranging from 5,000-8,600. I have 5 high estimates ranging from 25,000-100,000. Three sources hedge their bets by offering both a low estimate and a high estimate. Two give a low estimate exclusively, and two give a high estimate exclusively.]
* Chalmers Johnson: "...the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese." [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/john04_.html]
* Rummel blames the Japanese for 5,964,000 democides
o POWs: 539,000 (400,000 Chinese)
o Forced Labor: 1,010,000 (142,000 Chinese)
o Massacres: 3,608,000 (2,850,000 Chinese)
o Bombing/CB warfare: 558,000 (all Chinese)
o Imposed Famine: 250,000 (none in China)
o Rummel also estimates that General/Prime Minister Tojo Hideki was responsible for a lifetime total of 3,990,000 democides.
* Some guy on Internet [http://www.jca.apc.org/JWRC/exhibit/Index.HTM]
o Nanjing Massacre: 155,337 dead bodies
+ Chinese official estimate: >300,000
+ Japanese scholars:100-200,000
o Datong Coal Mine, China: 60,000 slave laborers killed
o Forced labor camps in Japan: 6,830 imported workers died
o Singapore: 5,000 Chinese k -- another estimate: 50,000-60,000 k.
o Burma-Siam RR: 12,400 POWs + 42,000 Asian wkrs
* My estimate is that 11M civilians and 4.5M soldiers died in the Asian/Pacific War. That's 15,500,000 deaths which can probably be blamed on the Japanese to one extent or another.

Not even the japanese deny that it happened. They just claim that 100-200.000 fewer people died, making it at least 100.000 in the Massacre of Nanjing.
I think the above list is pretty fair, cause it lists a lot of different estimates.

But keep in mind, this is a chinese/korean-japanese dispute, western powers or whitey isnt even involved to "whitewash" himself.
Neither Europe, nor the USA made these claims. The chinese did.

And as you can see, that Massacre is not the only incident where the japanese ran amok.

[Cold Bear]

Read the clear delineation of events once again and tell me how my original statement is wrong. The Japanese imitated the ideology and imperialistic tendencies of the West as a reaction the West's imperialism in Asia. A 200 year policy of seclusion and non-interference in neighboring countries running previous is more than you can say about the United States with their long covert interference with South and Central American politics and economics. The only case brought so far to the contrary is Sentenza's mention of Japan's "Invasion" of Korea in 1592 which was a series of battles occurring over 6! years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_i ... %931598%29

Read this right here and tell me how this shit differs at all from what Europeans were doing with each other for centuries. Warring amongst themselves.

To use this 'invasion' is another way for whites to demonize Japanese in order to as Mayuga put it 'whitewash' their own imperialism and savagery is what's disturbing.

I would say it doesnt make sense to weigh all these things against each other or to demonize anyone. But the claim that Japan and its neighbours coexisted peacefully before the europeans came is unsustainable.
Humans are humans and humans wage war, are greedy, cruel, try to conquer land etc. The japanese are no exception to this.
I dont know in which way they are demonized in the US, to me they are a high culture which is pretty interesting.

But here is a more detailed list of wars involving Japan and its neighbours (im not even mentioning the asian mainland countries which were took part in more wars then japan, because of Japans nature as an island. Japan has a very long record of civil wars though). But here we go:

The military history of Japan is characterised by a long period of feudal wars, followed by domestic stability, and then rampant Imperialism. It culminates with Japan's defeat by the Allies in World War II. Since then, Japan's constitution has prohibited the use of military force to wage war against other countries.

Jōmon Period (ca. 10,000 - 300 BC)
Near the end of the Jōmon period (ca. 300 BC), villages and towns became surrounded by moats and wooden fences due to increasing violence within or between communities.

Yayoi Period

The transition from the Jōmon to Yayoi, and later to the Yamato, period is likely to have been characterized by violent struggle as the natives were soon displaced by the invaders and their vastly superior military technology

The 14 be invasion of Silla (新羅, Shiragi in Japanese), one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea, is the earliest Japanese military action recorded in Samguk Sagi. According to that record, Wa (the proto-Japanese nation) sent one hundred ships and sacked the coastal area of Silla before being driven off.

Yamato Period (250 - 710 AD)

Yamato Japan had close relations with the southwestern Korean kingdom of Baekje from which it received Buddhism and Chinese writing. When Baekje requested help from the Japanese, they were then defeated by an alliance of Tang China and Silla in Battle of Baekgang in 663. As a result, the Japanese were banished from the Korean Peninsula. To defend the Japanese Archipelago, a military base was constructed in Dazaifu, #%@& of Kyushu.

The Battle of Baekgang (白村江) took place in 663 AD, near the conclusion of the Korean Three Kingdoms period. The Nihonshoki records that Yamato sent 32,000 troops and 1,000 ships to support Baekje against the Silla-Tang force. However, these ships were intercepted by a Silla-Tang fleet and defeated. Baekje, without aid and surrounded by Silla and Tang forces on the land, collapsed. A hostile Silla (Silla was a rival of Baekje, and as Baekje had a close relationship with Wa Japan, Silla viewed Wa Japan also as a rival and was hostile to it) prevented Japan from having any further meaningful contact with the Korean Peninsula until far later in time. The Japanese then turned directly to China.

According to the Nihon Shoki, Empress Jingū is said to have invaded Korea in the 3rd century, and to have returned victorious after three years.

The first major references to Japanese naval actions against other Asian powers occur in the accounts of the Mongol invasions of Japan by Kublai Khan in 1281. Japan had no navy which could seriously challenge the Mongol navy, so most of the action took place on Japanese land. Groups of samurai, transported on small coastal boats, are recorded to have boarded, taken over and burned several ships of the Mongol navy.

During the following centuries, wakō pirates became very active plundering the coast of the Chinese Empire. Though the term wakō translates directly to "Japanese pirates," Japanese were far from the only sailors to harass shipping and ports in China and other parts of Asia in this period, and the term thus more accurately includes these non-Japanese as well. The first raid by wakō on record occurred in the summer of 1223, on the south coast of Goryeo. At the peak of wakō activity around the end of the 14th century, fleets of 300 to 500 ships, transporting several hundred horsemen and several thousand soldiers, would raid the coast of China.

The battle of Hakusukinoe (白村江), one of the earliest historical events in Japan's naval history, outside the realm of legend or myth, took place in 663. Japan sent 32,000 troops and possibly as much as 1,000 ships to Korea to support the declining Baekje kingdom (百済国) against Silla and T'ang Dynasty China. They were defeated by the T'ang-Silla combined force.

Invasions of Korea and the Ryūkyūs

In 1592 and again in 1598, Toyotomi Hideyoshi organized invasions of Korea using some 9,200 ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_i ... %931598%29

Invasion of the Ryūkyūs

In 1609, Shimazu Tadatsune, Lord of Satsuma, invaded the southern islands of Ryūkyū (modern Okinawa) with a fleet of 13 junks and 2,500 samurai, thereby establishing suzerainty over the islands. They faced little opposition from the Ryukyuans, who lacked any significant military capabilities, and who were ordered by King Shō Nei to surrender peacefully rather than suffer the loss of precious lives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Japan[/quote]

None of this can rightly be differentiated from wars that were occurring regionally all across the globe pre-Age of Imperialism. From Native American populations in Mexico to nomad tribes of Europe to the Crusades, how are these battles and wars significant? Seriously, you're citing pirates sacking coasts, Mongol navy invading Japan and battling the nonexistent Japanese navy, one culture invading another.

When we get to an ideology supporting the racist dehumanization of a people that can justify genocide, horrible cruelty, and imperialism in general, then where can we say the turning point is?

If you look into the period of time when Japan went from a feudal system with no technology to an industrialized nation, they copied EVERYTHING they could from the West and emulated it, in record time.

The ideology of racism and 'inherent right' to rule over others and take their resources is distinctly Western at least in the Modern world. Western Anthropology is based on the study of the 'other' and the categorization of global peoples in a racial hierarchy. This is the ideology that led to modern global politics and Imperialism. It is the science that formed global political campaigns. http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Anthr ... 1840466634 Other groups of course were imperialist in a domestic sense like the Aztecs but that was not based on any racial premise.

The Japanese ended up adopting this premise just like they adopted everything else they possibly could from Europe.

This adoption ironically led to the brutal imperialist practices Japan is now criticized for by the cultures they adopted it from.

Chinese and other Asians will never have a positive view of Japan based on the actions they committed, but even Western critics of Occidentalism in Asian culture admit that they got the ideology and the urge to adopt full scale entitled Imperialism from the West who was encroaching on China, Japan, India, Africa etc. with that same sense of entitlement and economic and political aspirations based on the idea that they were a superior culture and race. End of story.

[Sentenza]

None of this can rightly be differentiated from wars that were occurring regionally all across the globe pre-Age of Imperialism. From Native American populations in Mexico to nomad tribes of Europe to the Crusades, how are these battles and wars significant? Seriously, you're citing pirates sacking coasts, Mongol navy invading Japan and battling the nonexistent Japanese navy, one culture invading another.

When we get to an ideology supporting the racist dehumanization of a people that can justify genocide, horrible cruelty, and imperialism in general, then where can we say the turning point is?

If you look into the period of time when Japan went from a feudal system with no technology to an industrialized nation, they copied EVERYTHING they could from the West and emulated it, in record time.

The ideology of racism and 'inherent right' to rule over others and take their resources is distinctly Western at least in the Modern world. Western Anthropology is based on the study of the 'other' and the categorization of global peoples in a racial hierarchy. This is the ideology that led to modern global politics and Imperialism. It is the science that formed global political campaigns. http://www.amazon.com/Introducing-Anthr ... 1840466634 Other groups of course were imperialist in a domestic sense like the Aztecs but that was not based on any racial premise.

The Japanese ended up adopting this premise just like they adopted everything else they possibly could from Europe.

This adoption ironically led to the brutal imperialist practices Japan is now criticized for by the cultures they adopted it from.

Chinese and other Asians will never have a positive view of Japan based on the actions they committed, but even Western critics of Occidentalism in Asian culture admit that they got the ideology and the urge to adopt full scale entitled Imperialism from the West who was encroaching on China, Japan, India, Africa etc. with that same sense of entitlement and economic and political aspirations based on the idea that they were a superior culture and race. End of story.

First we were talking about peaceful coexistence in Asia/Japan prior to the arrival of Europeans. That peaceful coexistence never existed, that is why i mentioned these things.
Now when we come to scientific racism as in measuring skulls, classifying races and all that, it is a distinct european development of the 17th-18th century, i wholeheartedly agree with that.
It came up, when the focus shifted from religious attempts to explain the world to scientific ones. Today we know that races dont exist and no nation/people/ethnicity on earth is superior to the other.
When it comes to Japan, the story is a little bit more complex. Of course most Asians were considered inferior by most europeans during that time, somewhat like subhumans, resulting from the experience that they had little to offer to rsist european interventions in Asia.
And during World War 2 racism against the Japanese was pretty widespread in the US too (not so much in Germany, they were our allies and considered as Asias finest but this leads off topic).
But stuff like this was very common:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEK45-_5y0s

The U.S. serviceman had deep seeded fears and hatred of his Japanese counterpart, much more so than his German. These fears and hatred were fueled by Allied propaganda that dehumanized his Japanese enemy. Through movies, music and literature the idea that Japanese were not quite human was constantly portrayed. The Japanese were perceived as treacherous and low down because of their attack at Pearl Harbor. Popular war songs of the day included "You're a Sap, Mister Jap" and "We're Gonna Have to Slap the Dirty Little Jap". A movie by Frank Capra, Know You're Enemy-Japan, shown to all servicemen, attempted to show the Japanese as, "fantastic and fanatic…fired by relentless national ambition…trained from birth to fight and die for his country…and also given to mad dog' orgies of brutality."(Dower, 20) Such images were ingrained in the minds of American soldiers before they ever set eyes on a member of the Imperial Army.
Never does one see an image of the good Japanese, like the non-Nazi, good German. The Japanese were referred to as, "animals, reptiles, or insects(monkeys, baboons, gorillas, dogs, mice and rats, vipers and rattlesnakes, cockroaches, vermin or more indirectly, the Japanese herd' and the like."

However Japan the seed for racism and imperialism was already planted long time before any contact with the west.

Yamato-damashii (大和魂?, "Japanese spirit") is a historically and culturally loaded word in the Japanese language. The phrase was apparently coined in the Heian (794 to 1185 AD) period to describe the indigenous Japanese 'spirit' or cultural values as opposed to the cultural values imported into the country through contact with Tang dynasty China.[citation needed] Later, a qualitative contrast between Japanese and Chinese spirit was elicited from the term.
[...]
The Japanese word yamato-damashii means ‘Japanese spirit/soul.’ One millennium ago, the term originated from cultural antithesis with "Chinese learning," and in the last century, it became a talisman for ultra-nationalists. The purpose of the present study is to use yamato-damashii definitions for elucidating this word's place within the modern lexicon and for introducing some characteristics of Japanese dictionaries.

It means the thought of japanese supremacy over chinese culture.

Also:

Hakkō ichiu (八紘一宇, literally "eight cords, one roof" i.e. "all the world under one roof"?) was a Japanese political slogan that became popular from Second Sino-Japanese War to World War II, and was popularized in a speech by Prime Minister of Japan Fumimaro Konoe on January 8, 1940.[1]

The official translation offered by contemporary leaders was "universal brotherhood", but it was widely acknowledged to be an expression of peace in a colonialist sense only. Period leaders noted privately that "although we say 'universal brotherhood', it probably means that we are equal to the Caucasians but, to the peoples of Asia, we act as their leader."

The term was coined early in the twentieth century by Nichiren sect religious activist and ultranationalist Tanaka Chigaku, who cobbled it from parts of a statement attributed in the chronicle Nihon shoki to legendary first emperor Jimmu at the time of his ascension.[3]

Ambiguous in its original context, Tanaka interpreted the statement by Jimmu (509-571 CE), mythically descended from the sun goddess Amaterasu, as meaning that imperial rule had been divinely ordained to expand until it united the entire world. While Tanaka saw this outcome as resulting from the emperor's moral leadership, many of his followers were less pacifist in their outlook.

A statement attributed to the first japanese emperor, meaning that the whole world has to be united under japanese rule.

Mixed with Nationalism and scientific racism, this is a pretty poisonous cocktail.

[cliffard]

In 1919, Japan proposed a clause on racial equality to be included in the League of Nations covenant at the Paris Peace Conference. The clause was rejected by several Western countries and was not forwarded for larger discussion at the full meeting of the conference. The rejection was an important factor in the coming years in turning Japan away from cooperation with West and toward nationalistic policies.[17] The Anglo-Japanese Alliance was ended in 1923




What got me about coldbears post was this line here! Had the European countries accepted -"others" as more then animals then this war wouldve probably never happened. But the european enforced a belief in supremacy which allowed Japan to whitewash their crimes in Manchuria.After all if Europeans believed that some races are inherently better -then why should Japan feel any different for the chinese? Its that European hypocrisy that just boils me-teh double speak and finger pointing and always righteous attitude while at the same time committing the worst crimes ever known to man! If we are going to be EVIl then lets just be upfront! Oh but europeans dont know what up front means-maybe why they always stab people in teh back instead of to their faces -its that womanly attitude about them-that back biting bickering and gossiping femenist trait! One of the reasons they have been able to win wars is because REAL MEN have a hard time understanding a man who behaves like a woman!

you cheeky cunt, i come from a line of nazi killers, grandad took a bullet in his head, no backstabbers here and never have been
if we aint have stood up ON OUR OWN i hasten to add america would have been fighting germany with the manpower of the defeated soviet union on its eastern seaboard and the japanese unworried about an attack from their west on your west coast
and how dyou think you woulda done under nazi rule? nothing aryan about you my brother, you would have definitely been classified as 'subhuman', in a camp or worked to death

[Sentenza]

you cheeky cunt, i come from a line of nazi killers, grandad took a bullet in his head, no backstabbers here and never have been
if we aint have stood up ON OUR OWN i hasten to add america would have been fighting germany with the manpower of the defeated soviet union on its eastern seaboard and the japanese unworried about an attack from their west on your west coast
and how dyou think you woulda done under nazi rule? nothing aryan about you my brother, you would have definitely been classified as 'subhuman', in a camp or worked to death

Man i didnt even read that passage. Thats some stupid shit. Its that racial American crazy talk.
Im pretty sure Mayuga doesnt even understand how he is actually perpetuating what he believes to criticize.

[Silencioso]

Man i didnt even read that passage. Thats some stupid shit. Its that racial American crazy talk.
Im pretty sure Mayuga doesnt even understand how he is actually perpetuating what he believes to criticize.

Could you elaborate on that?

[Sentenza]

Could you elaborate on that?

He (like many others) claim to criticize racism (like in this thread for example) yet resort to racist phrases, sterotypes and schemes of thinking.
That race and a certain way of behaving (europeans are womanly, blacks are loud/only steal from other cultures, mexicans are original, intelligent, cool etc.)are connected is one fundamental believe of Racism. That is as racist as it gets.
That is what racism is about. To attribute negative or positive attributes to certain people which they have "by nature" or due to their race and draw conclusions from there.
The rest is history. History like the Holocaust or Slavery. Or the genocide in Rwanda.
So i am saying, Mayugas supposed criticism of white racism is a cover up for the perpetuation of his own racism.
The same applys to many other black, mexican and whtie people.
It also always cracks me up when racist white hillbillies attack for example the Nation of Islam for its racism and justify their own racism with that of others. We got a case like that here.
That is Satan fighting versus Beelzebub in my eyes, if you catch my drift.

Im not saying that Europeans are less racist, but i have come across many americans in my life and have to say that it seems like they are obsessed with the race issue.
In my environment or in German forums that is not even an issue.
Everytime i log into this forum i am reassured.

[cliffard]

you cheeky cunt, i come from a line of nazi killers, grandad took a bullet in his head, no backstabbers here and never have been
if we aint have stood up ON OUR OWN i hasten to add america would have been fighting germany with the manpower of the defeated soviet union on its eastern seaboard and the japanese unworried about an attack from their west on your west coast
and how dyou think you woulda done under nazi rule? nothing aryan about you my brother, you would have definitely been classified as 'subhuman', in a camp or worked to death

Man i didnt even read that passage. Thats some stupid shit. Its that racial American crazy talk.
Im pretty sure Mayuga doesnt even understand how he is actually perpetuating what he believes to criticize.

no disrespect to you tenza, youre a good dude, nuff brave german soldiers too, anyway that shits long gone, but hearing that muppet carrying on them ways just annoyed me
without putting my business out on the net ive been in life and death situations, and never been a coward or a backstabber despite my lily white skin (and yeah im proper white, prolly more german lookin than you! what these idiots call 'aryan' despite it referring to a population group in northern india)
my kids/step kids are half black - im proud of being english - where the fuck do i fit in?

[mayugastank]

SENTENZA.

Im not saying that Europeans are less racist, but i have come across many americans in my life and have to say that it seems like they are obsessed with the race issue.
In my environment or in German forums that is not even an issue.
Everytime i log into this forum i am reassured.

Please do be reassured America is a racist country no doubt about that . Less so then in the times I was growing up -the 1990s were extremely racist and then it calmed down. About now I would judge the situation to be at medium-high. Interracial dating and marriage and breeding have contributed to the situatin not being as tense. Which Ive advocated as the only solution to racial strife. But its gotten weird in that white kids have found their own voice where in the 1980s and 90s ....they were copies of urban latinos and sometimes blacks. Whites have now their own -styles and ways and I believe they have found their own voice. In that situatin it has made the racial situation a little more intense in that white youths now feel -they can unite and be themselves. Being white isnt as much an embarrassment as it was and white couples are common -whereas 10 years ago -no white youth coupling was seen as much.....meaning that white people have gotten comfortable around themselves again and hispanics have turned inwards in the amounts of migrants arriving daily has reenforced their cultures. I dont know if it makes sense -but statistically it all matches up. 20 Years ago -hispanic interacial matches were thought to be about 40% meaning that almost half of all american born latinos would marry -a white. Now the number has dropped 15%. So latinos are marrying latinos in greater numbers creating a new class of people in this country. One more group with its own interests. The immigration debate is reflecting the trend heavily and voter sentiment is explosive. I hope I made sense the situation was difficult to explain

[Silencioso]

. But its gotten weird in that white kids have found their own voice where in the 1980s and 90s ....they were copies of urban latinos and sometimes blacks

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, Mayuga. In the 80's, white kids had their own subcultures - punk/hardcore, new wave, metal/stoners, skaters, surfers, goths/death rockers, bikers etc. Yeah, there were white cholos like Suicidals, Atwater Boyz and Venice White Boys but even THEY listened to punk rock or metal not oldies or latin freestyle. A white kid that acted black in the 80's was considered a complete freak. Acting Mexican was more accepted but pretty rare and was usually white kids in Chicano gangs.

Early 90's Gangsta rap was the turning point. All of a sudden a lot of white kids started acting "black" and it was acceptable although a little silly. Some rock genres incorporated cholo-isms like long goaty beards and knit caps worn low and so you saw white kids looking like pseudo-cholos.

[mayugastank]

. But its gotten weird in that white kids have found their own voice where in the 1980s and 90s ....they were copies of urban latinos and sometimes blacks

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, Mayuga. In the 80's, white kids had their own subcultures - punk/hardcore, new wave, metal/stoners, skaters, surfers, goths/death rockers, bikers etc. Yeah, there were white cholos like Suicidals, Atwater Boyz and Venice White Boys but even THEY listened to punk rock or metal not oldies or latin freestyle. A white kid that acted black in the 80's was considered a complete freak. Acting Mexican was more accepted but pretty rare and was usually white kids in Chicano gangs.

Early 90's Gangsta rap was the turning point. All of a sudden a lot of white kids started acting "black" and it was acceptable although a little silly. Some rock genres incorporated cholo-isms like long goaty beards and knit caps worn low and so you saw white kids looking like pseudo-cholos.

OKAY MISQUOTE on the 80s statement. Id have to agree. I was hestitant in saying the 80s but I placed it there because of my views of family and friends. I knew quite a few white chicks who were dating older guys and I knew a boatload of white kids who were taggers and from every large chicano tagger crews. Also white kid skaters I knew back then were usually taggers themselves. However for once youve agreed with me and your pseudo-cholo comment is what I been getting at in many many of my threads and posts. That pseudo cholo style is BY FAR the biggest influence of whites now. Shoot there are more white pseudo cholos then actual cholos anymore. Cholos are a dying breed compared to the 1990s when they took over hostile style -whole communitys. That whole style is such a play on the chicano gang culture.

[warhead]

It amazes me how a small island nation with little to no natural resources can become so powerful. Think about it. Japan was able to defeat Russia in a sea war and challenge western powers throughout the Pacific kicking their buts from time to time. The Japanese were brutal but are special.

The opium dealers (Europeans) and Japs took advantage of China at her weakest time, civil war. If you pay attention to Chinese history past and ancient you will find that China always gets her payback I can assure you Japan will be taught a good lesson by the Chinese. After all the Japanese culture, writing, etc were copied from the Chinese.