Surenos love old Black soul music why?

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Silencioso » August 19th, 2011, 7:38 pm

When you say old Black soul music do you mean "oldies" - early 60's, Motown - or the stuff on the Old School comp albums - 70's to early 80's funk/soul/rnb?

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 20th, 2011, 12:07 am

femun wrote:because that Music is the SHIT. Why do Black people love Mexican food?
@ femun- you got a good point there playa! The thing that makes this ironic is, the fact that the Surenos love black soul music, but are at war with blacks. I would think that because of this, they would not want to identify at all with the african american culture. I guess it's true that music transcends all bounderies.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by femun » August 20th, 2011, 2:53 pm

Surenos aren't at war with blacks. All the incidents you read about are all isolated.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Tre » August 20th, 2011, 8:32 pm

femun wrote:Surenos aren't at war with blacks. All the incidents you read about are all isolated.
I have to agree with femun, I've met racist Surenos and I've met Surenos that was cool as hell!
LA is not Nazi Germany. A Race War is when the FULL resources of one people is dedicated to the FULL annihilation of the other. The reality is... black gangs war with black gangs and Mexican gangs war with Mexican gangs far more than they war with each other. We live in a multicultural society so you always going to have hate crimes, but these crimes are still too few and far between to call them all-out "Race Wars"

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 21st, 2011, 7:33 am

Tre wrote:
femun wrote:Surenos aren't at war with blacks. All the incidents you read about are all isolated.
I have to agree with femun, I've met racist Surenos and I've met Surenos that was cool as hell!
LA is not Nazi Germany. A Race War is when the FULL resources of one people is dedicated to the FULL annihilation of the other. The reality is... black gangs war with black gangs and Mexican gangs war with Mexican gangs far more than they war with each other. We live in a multicultural society so you always going to have hate crimes, but these crimes are still too few and far between to call them all-out "Race Wars"
@ Femun & Tre- I understand and hear both of your positions. However, if you listen to not just the media, but many bangers they say differently. I know this has been discussed on other threads, but I think it's important to note. In the documentary Dead Homies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UagKer5y ... 5CAD74479D) several gang members discuss this issue. In particular, Fat Rat from payback and Cartoon from RSC. Additionally, in the documentary War Stories, monster Kody discusses this issue, and feels that there is a war. Maybe I phrased it incorrectly in my previous post. I am not saying that mexicans are at war with blacks, I'm saying that there is a war with Surenos and Black gangs. Even my family members who bang and have spent many years incarcerated feel that there is a war. It's my belief that the prison system breeds this animosity and it spills into the streets. The big homies get out and school the young homies on this mindset and it permeates into our society. There are Mexican and Black gangs killing each other now, that in past years lived together and in some instances did business together. Yes there are mexican gangs that co-exist but often its based on the old philosophy, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". However, in most cases once that common enemy is removed, the once friends become enemies. That's just my view.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by femun » August 21st, 2011, 9:43 am

@Quepolo3 you make a good point about the big homie scenario but the fact is these incidents are still few and far between. Come to LA and see for yourself. All you guys that aren't from LA have these strong opinions just cuz you heard some song lyrics saw some youtube vids etc... The guys from LA tell you otherwise but thats not good enough.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 21st, 2011, 1:53 pm

femun wrote:@Quepolo3 you make a good point about the big homie scenario but the fact is these incidents are still few and far between. Come to LA and see for yourself. All you guys that aren't from LA have these strong opinions just because you heard some song lyrics saw some youtube vids etc... The guys from LA tell you otherwise but thats not good enough.
@Femun- I lived in LA for 10 years. Not only that, I just left LA, not even a month ago. I come to LA at least 2-3 times a year. When I moved there in 93' the only people I knew was my Family. Just so happens a few of them are bangers. Additionally, I use to spend alot of time in the jungles, while attending Lodge Meetings. When I first started working, I was at an office in Huntington Park @ Enterprise Rent-Car on Pacific and Slauson. We used to Market every body shop, dealership, auto shop between Adams to Imperial, and From Figuroa to Atlantic. So if you know the area, you know that is a lot of shops and they are all in the hood. Then I got a job as a claims adjuster doing property claims in LA, Orange and Riverside Counties. So believe me bruh, I know quite a bit about LA and the Gang culture. Having said that, I'm not a gang banger so there are many things I can't speak on.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by femun » August 21st, 2011, 2:19 pm

I honestly wouldn't take just any gangbangers word as gospel cuz most gangbangers are the stupidest people you'll ever meet.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 23rd, 2011, 1:55 pm

why do surenos love old black music? SAME REASON BLACK BANGERS-dress/drive/and get inked in the manner of the Sureno.

We find whats best about a culture and take what we like EVERYONE DOES IT. ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA.

My favorite food? Italian
Favorite Music? RNB ( African American )
Favorite Vehicles? Hondas and Lexus ( japanese and german)
Favorite form of Art? Chicano and Japanese.


The best of the best. African American music isnt African---its American derived from Africans experiences in America. Simple. Just Like Chicano Art isnt Mexican but American derived from Mexicans experience in America.

Whatever the reason the worlds fashion and art is heavily laced with Japanese and Chicano forms of tattooing....its on shirts/surfboards/peoples skin/shorts/boards/album covers/ and on athletes and actors bodies.

The Art had never been seen outside the Southwestern United States BARRIOS. Its a chicano thing and its OUR BIGGEST IDENTIFIER. Should Lil Wayne/Tyga and others be allowed to wear it without acknowledgement? NIL.I believe as much as this thread takes on chicanos for listening to black music!!

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 23rd, 2011, 2:08 pm

Jonathanvic wrote:What I want to know is when did Mexicans become Blacks masters? We don't need permission from Mexicans or anyone else to any damned thing, you jackass.

If you dont need permission from Mexicans to do any dam thing then why do mexicans need permission to listen to black music or rap?

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 23rd, 2011, 2:08 pm

Jonathanvic wrote:What I want to know is when did Mexicans become Blacks masters? We don't need permission from Mexicans or anyone else to any damned thing, you jackass.

If you dont need permission from Mexicans to do any dam thing then why do mexicans need permission to listen to black music or rap?

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Jonathanvic » August 23rd, 2011, 3:14 pm

At Mayuga: Who the hell said Mexicans need permission to listen to black music? I have never read or heard anything that stupid. You are the one claiming certain people need permission to do certain things such as getting a style of tattoo.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 24th, 2011, 1:35 pm

Jonathanvic wrote:At Mayuga: Who the hell said Mexicans need permission to listen to black music? I have never read or heard anything that stupid. You are the one claiming certain people need permission to do certain things such as getting a style of tattoo.

The form of tattooing is EXTREMELY personal to the movement. When rap was being exploited by Vanilla Ice and many other whites in the early 90s, Blacks were in an uproar ....OUTSIDE of MAYUGASTANK.....ME----their arent any chicanos in the world of tattooing-art-fashion lacing blacks/whites up for getting our inkstyles. I merely brought it up when blacks throughout this thread and others derided chicano rappers and denied the origins of the art/the crip-blood look/westcoast styles and much more......all these fashions/styles/artwork and more came from a people ( CHICANOS ) seeking out an identity as the children of immigrants raised in America such as did the Italians in NYC.

You and others who grew around chicanos know the art...and the form of tattooing for what it is and youve seen it your entire lives inked on mexicans.....outside of the Southwest ( TEXAS-ARIZONA-NEW MEXICO-NEVADA-COLORADO ) the world had never known the grey shading-line work-play on fonts and placements of Southern Mexican-Americans.

This art has exploded throughout Europe/Russia/Canada.........and these people have never lived-breathed or met a Mexican American in fact Chicanos are RARE indeed outside of the above (5) states.

Blacks are far more dispersed throughout the USA and have far more influence for this reason. To hear policyking and others deny ............the origins of the clothing/styles/art/look/cars/ as if they originated amongst any people anywhere EXCEPT chicanos is a racist and afront to what my people been thru and what made the look what it is.

Give me soulfood-rnb-speakeasys-jazz-bluegrass-dice games-ebonics-cotton-lemonade-watermelons-BBQs-southern slavery-Southern Slavery derived art............thats the black American experience..............after all 29 MILLION African Americans reside in those states to this day and not a spot throughout them were any of them getting inked up/smashing lowlows/wearing red/bleu to identify their gangs/throwing gang signs/graffing/ ro doing anything ELSE in dispute on thsi thread!!!!!!!!

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 24th, 2011, 1:40 pm

FACT CHICANO VARRIOS ARE IN EXCESS OF 120 YEARS OLD . FACT. THE SAME GANGS OF THE 1890S ARE THE SAME GANGS OF TODAY. NOT THE AREA THEY WERE LOCATED IN NOR THEIR NAMES HAVE CHANGED. FACT. THE OLDEST GANGS WERE IN FACT STARTED BY CHICANO TRANSPLANTS FROM TEXAS WHO BROUGHT THESE GANGS AND STYLES WITH THEM GIVING CREDENCE TO CHICANO VARRIOS BEING WAY OLDER THEN THE 1890S.



AMERICAS and THE WORLDEST OLDEST LIVING LONGEST LIVING GANG....................LOCATED IN EAST LOS ANGELOS. FACT.........THERE ARE DOZENS OF GANGS IN EAST LOS ANGELOS OVER 100 YEARS OLD AND MANY MORE DOZENS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 24th, 2011, 2:25 pm

mayugastank wrote:FACT CHICANO VARRIOS ARE IN EXCESS OF 120 YEARS OLD . FACT. THE SAME GANGS OF THE 1890S ARE THE SAME GANGS OF TODAY. NOT THE AREA THEY WERE LOCATED IN NOR THEIR NAMES HAVE CHANGED. FACT. THE OLDEST GANGS WERE IN FACT STARTED BY CHICANO TRANSPLANTS FROM TEXAS WHO BROUGHT THESE GANGS AND STYLES WITH THEM GIVING CREDENCE TO CHICANO VARRIOS BEING WAY OLDER THEN THE 1890S.



AMERICAS and THE WORLDEST OLDEST LIVING LONGEST LIVING GANG....................LOCATED IN EAST LOS ANGELOS. FACT.........THERE ARE DOZENS OF GANGS IN EAST LOS ANGELOS OVER 100 YEARS OLD AND MANY MORE DOZENS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.
For real mane! This big writing is giving me a headache. It's too much bruh!

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Silencioso » August 24th, 2011, 5:57 pm

... FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

Fact: there's no big univeral street gang culture out there. There's three main gang cultures in the US today: LA black, Cholo/SW Chicano and Chicago. If we're being totally honest, LA black gangs have had the biggest impact nationwide.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by PrinceTheReal » August 25th, 2011, 4:01 am

i dont know why yall even arguing about the first gang in america.

they are neither black or Chicano .

the first gang in america IS OBVIOUSLY WHITE. Western Gangs,Nigger killing Gangs,Outlaw Gangs. them folks been around since 1650 or something.

and how does it even matter whose race had the first gang. theres been plenny crew of niggas that took over a hood that was ran by some other niggas for a long time.

and Everybody been on black people shit...its cool though...its because black is powerful, all the pain our ancestors endured helped us thrive(music,culture,athletically,every body wants to fukk a black guy etc)

yea black people like mexican food and might dress white to work. but in the most part black folks do our own thing.

we get immolated ...a lot of chicano's and some whites dress baggy and say NIGGA a lot even when referring to each other...its cool though

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Cold Bear » August 27th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Lmao this dude said cotton-lemonade-watermelons

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by ViciousRidah » August 28th, 2011, 7:29 am

Quepolo3 wrote:
@ Femun & Tre- I understand and hear both of your positions. However, if you listen to not just the media, but many bangers they say differently. I know this has been discussed on other threads, but I think it's important to note. In the documentary Dead Homies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UagKer5y ... 5CAD74479D) several gang members discuss this issue. In particular, Fat Rat from payback and Cartoon from RSC. Additionally, in the documentary War Stories, monster Kody discusses this issue, and feels that there is a war. Maybe I phrased it incorrectly in my previous post. I am not saying that mexicans are at war with blacks, I'm saying that there is a war with Surenos and Black gangs. Even my family members who bang and have spent many years incarcerated feel that there is a war. It's my belief that the prison system breeds this animosity and it spills into the streets. The big homies get out and school the young homies on this mindset and it permeates into our society. There are Mexican and Black gangs killing each other now, that in past years lived together and in some instances did business together. Yes there are mexican gangs that co-exist but often its based on the old philosophy, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". However, in most cases once that common enemy is removed, the once friends become enemies. That's just my view.
Its really not an all out war between black gangs and surenos.I believe ,those clips from the video just give an example of how politics operate in jail and how they always have been since the 80s. In Jail your race is your allegiance ,and so the Damus and Locs would always be on the other side of the fence towards the Surenos.

But the politics and dealings inside jail are very different from what goes on in the street, I don't find it legit for most people to suggest its an all out war between black gangs and surenos just because they are problems between both behind the wall.

Mexican gangs would not usually align themselves with black gangs just because they have a common enemy especially with tensions now, a lot of those alliances you see with Mexican gangs are because they have some history with each other,ie the Swans and F13.And they are quite a few alliances between both Mexican and black gangs.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by ViciousRidah » August 28th, 2011, 7:31 am

Silencioso wrote:... FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

Fact: there's no big univeral street gang culture out there. There's three main gang cultures in the US today: LA black, Cholo/SW Chicano and Chicago. If we're being totally honest, LA black gangs have had the biggest impact nationwide.
There some people who would tell you a different story,I would say Chicago gangs make a bigger impact nationwide.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 28th, 2011, 10:59 am

ViciousRidah wrote:
Silencioso wrote:... FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

Fact: there's no big univeral street gang culture out there. There's three main gang cultures in the US today: LA black, Cholo/SW Chicano and Chicago. If we're being totally honest, LA black gangs have had the biggest impact nationwide.
There some people who would tell you a different story,I would say Chicago gangs make a bigger impact nationwide.
@ViciousRidah- That's an interesting point. I think that both you and Silencioso make good points, but what are the factors you are using the as the basis for this view? Are you talking primarily about the emergence of those sets in other places throughout the country, or indicators like crime rates or other influences? I think that is important to note, because I agree that both LA and Chi town's Black and Latino gangs have definately had the biggest impact on a national level, but I think they have in different ways, so it's important to distinguish them.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by ViciousRidah » August 28th, 2011, 11:21 am

Quepolo3 wrote: @ViciousRidah- That's an interesting point. I think that both you and Silencioso make good points, but what are the factors you are using the as the basis for this view? Are you talking primarily about the emergence of those sets in other places throughout the country, or indicators like crime rates or other influences? I think that is important to note, because I agree that both LA and Chi town's Black and Latino gangs have definately had the biggest impact on a national level, but I think they have in different ways, so it's important to distinguish them.

I am talking about they are more Folks and Peoples gangs in nationwide then they are Bloods and Crips.I even think Alabama has more GDs than bloods and crips combined.The south is has a lot of GDs,4CHs,Stones,and Vice Lords ,add to the fact they have more legitimate ties to Chi Townon average than out of town bloods and crips would have to LA .And the Midwest also has more Folks and Brothers, even in midwestern cities were the Bloods and Crips take prominence like KC and St Louis, you still have a full load of GDs there.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 28th, 2011, 2:24 pm

I am talking about they are more Folks and Peoples gangs in nationwide then they are Bloods and Crips.I even think Alabama has more GDs than bloods and crips combined.The south is has a lot of GDs,4CHs,Stones,and Vice Lords ,add to the fact they have more legitimate ties to Chi Townon average than out of town bloods and crips would have to LA .And the Midwest also has more Folks and Brothers, even in midwestern cities were the Bloods and Crips take prominence like KC and St Louis, you still have a full load of GDs there.[/quote]

@ ViciousRidah- I thought that's what you were saying, I agree. You are absolutely right that GD's are definately the biggest gang in the south, and that the Chicago influence is huge down here. I remember guys in Alabama claiming Peoples and Folks when I was high school in the early eighties. You really did not hear about many LA sets being in the south until after the movie colors.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 28th, 2011, 4:07 pm

Silencioso wrote:... FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

Fact: there's no big univeral street gang culture out there. There's three main gang cultures in the US today: LA black, Cholo/SW Chicano and Chicago. If we're being totally honest, LA black gangs have had the biggest impact nationwide.

LA BLACK???????????/ how so? what is really uniqe about LA black gangs? I mean they changed up the cholo style a little and came up with flannels that werent buttoned at the top, dickies that sagged instead of being pulled up and chucks instead of stacy adams?

What else? When I see red/blue I see Californias (2) largest gangs Nortenos and Surenos.....who were wearing those colors dozens of years BEFORE crips and bloods. If blacks from California did anything it was to bring HIP HOP NEW YORK styles to the westcoast. PERIOD. But on their own? NADA.

New York styles and Chicago styles are IDENTICAL .......its the NEW YORK EAST COAST look that is Americas other underground youth/urban/minority style. What is polar opposites from East Coast Hip Hop Fashion is teh Southwestern Cholo gangster look. The one the rappers of the 1990s exported to America as if they didnt steal the look from chicanos!
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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Quepolo3 » August 29th, 2011, 1:10 pm

LA BLACK???????????/ how so? what is really uniqe about LA black gangs? I mean they changed up the cholo style a little and came up with flannels that werent buttoned at the top, dickies that sagged instead of being pulled up and chucks instead of stacy adams?

What else? When I see red/blue I see Californias (2) largest gangs Nortenos and Surenos.....who were wearing those colors dozens of years BEFORE crips and bloods. If blacks from California did anything it was to bring HIP HOP NEW YORK styles to the westcoast. PERIOD. But on their own? NADA.

New York styles and Chicago styles are IDENTICAL .......its the NEW YORK EAST COAST look that is Americas other underground youth/urban/minority style. What is polar opposites from East Coast Hip Hop Fashion is teh Southwestern Cholo gangster look. The one the rappers of the 1990s exported to America as if they didnt steal the look from chicanos![/quote]

@Mayugastank- If you look at my clarification addressed to ViciousRidah, you would see that we are talking about the impact gangs from LA and Chicago have made overall. In particular, as it relates to other cities adopting those particular gangs. Although, when you see red/blue you see Californias (2) largest gangs Nortenos and Surenos, mostly everyone else in this country relates it to Bloods/Crips so on. I'm sure that you will agree ,that you tend to see Bloods/Crips/Folks/Brothers in almost every state. However, You can't say the same about the Surenos. I kw that this is futile and no matter what anyone says you will still have the same view, but I thought it was necessary to note.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 29th, 2011, 9:26 pm

PrinceTheReal wrote:i dont know why yall even arguing about the first gang in america.

they are neither black or Chicano .

the first gang in america IS OBVIOUSLY WHITE. Western Gangs,Nigger killing Gangs,Outlaw Gangs. them folks been around since 1650 or something.

and how does it even matter whose race had the first gang. theres been plenny crew of niggas that took over a hood that was ran by some other niggas for a long time.

and Everybody been on black people shit...its cool though...its because black is powerful, all the pain our ancestors endured helped us thrive(music,culture,athletically,every body wants to #%@& a black guy etc)

yea black people like mexican food and might dress white to work. but in the most part black folks do our own thing.

we get immolated ...a lot of chicano's and some whites dress baggy and say NIGGA a lot even when referring to each other...its cool though









Dressing Baggy is a black thing ?LOL.............as far as whom emulates whom........take a look at the million rappers sporting permanently on their bodies the designs/placements/coloring and symbols of MEXICAN AMERICAN GANG MEMBERS.............now take a look at chicanos and just pry deeply into what we do even remotely similar to blacks! yeah their is a few chicano rappers but everyone including other chicanos know their FAKE ASS HELL and CORNY AS HELL......personally I would like to take every chicano rapper and bitch slap him and tell him to wake the hell up..........


go tell Lil Wayne TYGA-JEEZY-WAK-MAINO-BOW WOW...............to stop acting mexican I mean they all were the fashions/inkwork/drive the whips and do just about everything Southwestern United States Chicanos DO!!!

As far as oldest gang..............WELL ITS HICTORICALLY DOCUMENTED THAT .......................Dogtown 13 and White Fence 13 are the oldest gangs in America still standing. Meaning that these gangs are here today ....exactly where they were in the early 19th century. They didnt fade out-die out-disappear. They are as thick and as deep as EVER.

These (2) gangs are outside of LA COSA NOSTRA .......the oldest criminal organizations WORLDWIDE.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 29th, 2011, 9:35 pm

Quepolo3 wrote:LA BLACK???????????/ how so? what is really uniqe about LA black gangs? I mean they changed up the cholo style a little and came up with flannels that werent buttoned at the top, dickies that sagged instead of being pulled up and chucks instead of stacy adams?

What else? When I see red/blue I see Californias (2) largest gangs Nortenos and Surenos.....who were wearing those colors dozens of years BEFORE crips and bloods. If blacks from California did anything it was to bring HIP HOP NEW YORK styles to the westcoast. PERIOD. But on their own? NADA.

New York styles and Chicago styles are IDENTICAL .......its the NEW YORK EAST COAST look that is Americas other underground youth/urban/minority style. What is polar opposites from East Coast Hip Hop Fashion is teh Southwestern Cholo gangster look. The one the rappers of the 1990s exported to America as if they didnt steal the look from chicanos!
@Mayugastank- If you look at my clarification addressed to ViciousRidah, you would see that we are talking about the impact gangs from LA and Chicago have made overall. In particular, as it relates to other cities adopting those particular gangs. Although, when you see red/blue you see Californias (2) largest gangs Nortenos and Surenos, mostly everyone else in this country relates it to Bloods/Crips so on. I'm sure that you will agree ,that you tend to see Bloods/Crips/Folks/Brothers in almost every state. However, You can't say the same about the Surenos. I kw that this is futile and no matter what anyone says you will still have the same view, but I thought it was necessary to note.[/quote]






I absoultely AGREE with everything you are saying. Yes America reiterates RED/BLUE with crips and bloods..................because Nortenos and Surenos arent or never did place teh importance on those colors as C/B .............a Sureno can go his entire life and never meet a Norteno vice versa.

BUT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>those colors and that style of dress appropriated by Crips and Bloods was used throughout the SOUTHWESTERN UNITED STATES by chicano .........it was a chicano uniform used from place to place. Outside of Los Angelos African Americans had NO GANGS AT ALL even closely or remotely similiar to the ones formed in the company of Mexican Americans. In Atlanta-New Orleans-Jackson-Montgomery-New York-DC-Miami- Tallahassee-Charlotte-Baltimore-Little Rock- and most every other HISTORIC AFRICAN AMERICAN CITIES.....................there was nothing similiar to the dickie/flannel/lowriding/stacking/white Td/501/chuck wearing and tatted down AFRICAN AMERICAN of Los Angelos............who resembled almost completely his Mexican American originator...............Blacks from Los Angelos exported a CHICANO style to the rest of black America..............sure it had its own twist and sure blacks gave it its own flavor...............BUT IT IS 110% MEXICAN AMERICAN. And it was never done/seen or practiced outside of SouthWeestern United States EXCEPT by CHICANOS. END OF STORY.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Silencioso » August 30th, 2011, 4:35 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:
Silencioso wrote:... FACT MODERN GANG CULTURE IS DERIVED FROM AMERICAS OLDEST LONGEST LIVING TRADITION.

Fact: there's no big univeral street gang culture out there. There's three main gang cultures in the US today: LA black, Cholo/SW Chicano and Chicago. If we're being totally honest, LA black gangs have had the biggest impact nationwide.
There some people who would tell you a different story,I would say Chicago gangs make a bigger impact nationwide.
You could be right. There's probably more Folks/People gang members than Blood/Crip gang members out there. But I still think Crips/Bloods have had the most impact on modern gang stlye.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by femun » August 30th, 2011, 4:50 pm

Silencioso wrote:But I still think Crips/Bloods have had the most impact on modern gang stlye.
Your probably right but the fact is they are getting credit for something that was started So.Cal Chicanos.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by Tre » August 31st, 2011, 2:04 am

mayugastank wrote:
Tre wrote:That term 'gang' is being used very loosely in this thread femun. How can WF be the oldest gang when they started out as a church social group (unless you view church people as gangs). The cops didn't identify WF as a gang until the 1940's when they started organizing with other church kids to Fight the Establishment in the era of Sleepy Lagoon.

what about soto-gerahty-maravilla-canta rana-opal-temple..............................all gangs who started 30 years before the invention or popularity of the ZOOTSUIT. All made up gangs to TRE>?

Loose definition of gang? Id have to disagree. All these gangs were around as early as the 1920s.............all these gangs are ACTIVE .....TODAY RIGHT NOW AT THIS MOMENT IN THE SAME AREA THEY BEGUN.
"Truth be Told" Crips and Bloods raised the bar, set the standard on how modern streetgangs are defined. It's unfortunate the war between C's and B's and the death count involved reached unprecedented heights, but they established the blueprint. If you think some mischievous juvenile delinquents among a 1940's car club or Christian social/ sports club even compares to what the B's and C's put down, you are sadly mistaken, and naive. To try to reinvent these social clubs into streetgangs in order to establish a pre-history that even rivals the C's and B's is ridiculous too. There's no comparing El Jardin, Maravilla, Soto, Garehty Lomas, Canta Rana, Opal, Temple Street, La Rana, Bassett, Black Diamonds, Chino Sinners, Casa Blanca, Hazard, and a dozen MORE to what the C's and B's put down.

In the context of history, I don't think most groups outside of Chicanos buy into Chicanos being the oldest gang. Maybe it's some rallying point for some Chicanos... idk. Most observers would ask if they "Chicanos" are "the oldest living gang" than what makes them that? Who are their enemies?? Maybe the oldest living gang boast is indicative of a gang that's not active at all, but playing it safe, and not engaging any REAL enemies?

The B's and C's made their rep not because of tattoos, clothes, or because they happen to live in the same hood longer than any other gang. They made their rep because they went at it hard! Each side was a force to be reckoned with. A gang is only as tough as its enemies. If the enemy is weak and obscure so is your gang. The C's made the B's and the B's made the C's!!! When these two gangs went to war, it was on a whole other level. They went at it HARD... NO-HOLDS-BARRED!!!

That's their rep Mayuga... it had nothing to do with tattoos, clothes, or whatever other shit you talking about.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 31st, 2011, 1:21 pm

TRE~

Okay. Yes C/Bs went at it hard and brought banging to a far more heinous-murderous and savage light. But gangbanging had been going on since the 1920s in latino hoods and although even today -the murder count by latino gangs versus black gangs is way slanted with blacks doing a vast majority of the banging. Facts cant be denied blacks banged harder and killed more people.

I dont see how you turn maybe 3 dozen gangs into christian clubs......from San Diego to Sacremento their are varrios over a hundred years old scattered across the entire SOUTHWEST. Forget California-it isnt even on the map for history of cholos/cholo style/dress nor inkwork. These styles-lifestyle-art all came from Mexican Americans in Texas. The Tejanos have way deeper history of banging Cholo style then Chicanos from East Los Angelos. In fact almost ALL the first chicano gangs were brought from Texas to Los Angelos by Tejanos. East Los Chicanos merely transformed the Texas cholo gear and life into a BIG CITY affair.

Its completely verifiable that (1) The oldest gangs in America reside in East Los Angelos and EL Paso.

Name one gang COAST 2 COAST with even a smidgent of the history of DOGTOWN-CLOVER-AVENUES-CANTA RANA-WHITE FENCE-JARDIN-OPAL-SOTEL-TEMPLE-CASA BLANCA-LA RANA-HARPIES-GERAHTY..............

There arent any. The vast majority of streetgangs of "white origin" have died out. Only the Italians and the Mexicans in this country have turned this banging into culture. We both brought the lifestyle with us from our home countries.


You also point to the savagery performed by black gangs ---but fail to mention-that in a history of 120+ years banging HARD during the 1980s..........and early 1990s, doesnt is really small.

Thru World War 1 , the great depression, World War 2, Korea, Vietnam, The recession of the 1980s, the banging of the 1990s into the year 2010................WHITE FENCE-GERAHTY-OPAL-SOTEL-CLOVER-DOGTOWN-JARDIN-MARAVILLA and dozens more have lived right thru it ALL.

Its why the styles/art/life has been turned into a multigenerational family affair. Their aint no turning it back. We started it all -set the pattern and everyone from ........USOs-Blacks-and even whites today has took and repackaged it.

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Re: Surenos love old Black soul music why?

Unread post by mayugastank » August 31st, 2011, 1:38 pm

femun wrote:
Silencioso wrote:But I still think Crips/Bloods have had the most impact on modern gang stlye.
Your probably right but the fact is they are getting credit for something that was started So.Cal Chicanos.


Hes absolutely RIGHT. But so are you. I guess the argument can be made "blacks banged harder-got more reputation-were more murderous-and put Los Angelos banging on the map"

When thought of in that conjecture BLACKS WIN. But to deny-like some here do....that the entire black West Coast Gang culture isnt a complete bootleg off of Chicano gangs? INSANITY.

Yeah they gave it their own twist-made it their own and changed up the cholo style. So has everyone else! The argument can be made likewise that Santana-Chicano-Kid Frost-Lil Rob-High Power Soldiers ............and those other CORNY ass chicanos on the mike...........arent stealing or didnt copy black music since well.....they gave black music their own twist.

Its a ridicolous argument and if a chicano ever tried it he'd get verbally murdered. Elvis-Big Bopper-and most those "white disco" groups bit and stole and repackaged African American music. As much as Kid Frost-High Power Soldiers-Lil Rob- bit and stole and repackaged African American music. THE DIFFERENCE IS THEY DONT CLAIM TO NOT HAVE!!!


Crips and Bloods arent a "southern" invention- it didnt start in Harlem-Atlanta-Jackson-New Orleans-or any other spot the 99% of all African Americans live. It started in the company of Mexican gangs, and WAY AFTER THE FACT. To look at " SNOOP-DRE-ICE-CUBE-BOYZ IN THE HOOD-EASY E-TYGA" and say hey they original is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIZNIT.

They and the entire black gang culture of Los Angelos did nothing but repackage East Los gang life. To hear ICE CUBE give an interview and say " we wore dickies and white Ts cuz it was all we could afford..............AS IF they didnt STEAL and REPACKAGE chicano gang styles?"

Whats worse is that Chicanos dont even bring it up-call them on it or make a fuss about it! Not a one Cartoon-Micko- nor anyone is calling them or anyone on the carpet for sporting and repackaging our entire lifestyle in the United States. BUT OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! let anyone even try that on African Americans and we have a culture war.

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