Surenos love old Black soul music why?

[policyking52]

It's curious to me as to my the Surenos hate Black people so much to the point of trying to kill them but at the same time they love to listen to old Black Soul Music. They put out these collections of music such as "Lost Soul Oldies" Under Ground Soul Oldies" "Ganstas of Love" etc these are all songs made by Black Musicians even Blacks don't listen to this by and large, which is one of the reaons it's called Lost Soul music, but Mexicans love it. Now if one of these musicians were to walk through a Sureno hood he'd probably be killed while being called a mayate but that same killer most likely rolls around listening to his music in his low rider go fucking figure??

[MMRbkaRudog]

Not all of them hate blacks, but I do question the 1's that talk all that shit & listen to rap too.

[femun]

It's curious to me as to my the Surenos hate Black people so much to the point of trying to kill them but at the same time they love to listen to old Black Soul Music. They put out these collections of music such as "Lost Soul Oldies" Under Ground Soul Oldies" "Ganstas of Love" etc these are all songs made by Black Musicians even Blacks don't listen to this by and large, which is one of the reaons it's called Lost Soul music, but Mexicans love it. Now if one of these musicians were to walk through a Sureno hood he'd probably be killed while being called a mayate but that same killer most likely rolls around listening to his music in his low rider go #%@&#%@ figure??

I think you've seen certain episodes of Gangland one too many times. You have no idea what your talking about.

[policyking52]

It's curious to me as to my the Surenos hate Black people so much to the point of trying to kill them but at the same time they love to listen to old Black Soul Music. They put out these collections of music such as "Lost Soul Oldies" Under Ground Soul Oldies" "Ganstas of Love" etc these are all songs made by Black Musicians even Blacks don't listen to this by and large, which is one of the reaons it's called Lost Soul music, but Mexicans love it. Now if one of these musicians were to walk through a Sureno hood he'd probably be killed while being called a mayate but that same killer most likely rolls around listening to his music in his low rider go #%@&#%@ figure??

I think you've seen certain episodes of Gangland one too many times. You have no idea what your talking about.

I don't know what I"m talking about???? Really well maybe no one on these forom does either, but a lot of what I'm saying on this topic comes from this forum. As well as police reports, news, papers etc, so maybe they don't know what they are talkig about eiter Do you deny the Brown vs Black killings in Southern California???

[femun]

Do you deny the Brown vs Black killings in Southern California???

There are Brown on Black killings in Southern California and in Chicago,NY,Philly,Miami,Texas etc.... But the media blows the situation way outta control and misinformed impessionable youngsters eat that shiat up.

[mayugastank]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!

Now do black artists who ink themselves in the style of fine line black and grey----or the musicians wearing cholo chicano gang gear on their shirts think about the machine who created the art?

An artform mind you that begun amongst oppressed Mexican Americans who sought out an identity? Why do these rappers wear the uniform of their supposed enemy?

[mayugastank]

It's curious to me as to my the Surenos hate Black people so much to the point of trying to kill them but at the same time they love to listen to old Black Soul Music. They put out these collections of music such as "Lost Soul Oldies" Under Ground Soul Oldies" "Ganstas of Love" etc these are all songs made by Black Musicians even Blacks don't listen to this by and large, which is one of the reaons it's called Lost Soul music, but Mexicans love it. Now if one of these musicians were to walk through a Sureno hood he'd probably be killed while being called a mayate but that same killer most likely rolls around listening to his music in his low rider go #%@&#%@ figure??

I think you've seen certain episodes of Gangland one too many times. You have no idea what your talking about.

I don't know what I"m talking about???? Really well maybe no one on these forom does either, but a lot of what I'm saying on this topic comes from this forum. As well as police reports, news, papers etc, so maybe they don't know what they are talkig about eiter Do you deny the Brown vs Black killings in Southern California???

He most certainly would be killed at certain times of night with certain Sureno gangs. Its not media hype the situation is VERY real. What you get on the news is only a fraction of what really transpires. If the depths of the number of actual killings was really known youd have a race war by no other name in certain parts of Los Angelos. Compton-Long Beach-Pomona-Pasadena-South Central-The Inland Empire-Riverside-city after sity were murders happen on a daily, all in the name of race.

For instance I read a story about a mexican kid gunned down in LBC where the news article forgot to mention the race of killers and the reason. Had I not personally heard about it -Id be the lesser of readers and believe it was just another gang shooting. The real story was a race related payback murder of a 16 year old chicano kid who was gunned down as retribution for an earlier murder of 2 black teens. The 16 year old wasnt a banger nor affiliated but he was killed because he was (1) young (2) chicano (3) lived in a neighborhood that was home to gang members.

We can say situations like this arent racial.......but really the killers both black and brown go in with the intention of shooting anyone black or brown under the age of 35. They target solely based on race and age. That is racial. Their are probably hundreds maybe thousands of murders committed like this where the motive is dismissed or downplayed so as not to create a race war.

Dont be fooled you got it right there is a race war in Los Angelos.

[Rudog]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!

Now do black artists who ink themselves in the style of fine line black and grey----or the musicians wearing cholo chicano gang gear on their shirts think about the machine who created the art?

An artform mind you that begun amongst oppressed Mexican Americans who sought out an identity? Why do these rappers wear the uniform of their supposed enemy?

Horrible example, but do you think that is why surenos listen to norteno rap so much?

[policyking52]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!

Now do black artists who ink themselves in the style of fine line black and grey----or the musicians wearing cholo chicano gang gear on their shirts think about the machine who created the art?

An artform mind you that begun amongst oppressed Mexican Americans who sought out an identity? Why do these rappers wear the uniform of their supposed enemy?

I know the rest of the world likes black music but I still find it strange that a group of people who are killing soley based on skin color if you have that much hate that you would kill a person just because of the color of their skin then you would think that group would want nothing to do with that group of people music or anything else. The music tht I was mentioning is old black soul music which a lot of black people don't even listen to anymore which why is often called lost soul music. So they take great pains to find this music a put it out on cd collections all the while hating the people who made the music, strange to me very very strange.

As far as rappers wearing enemies of their so called enemy I don't think it was the rappers who started the ethnic cleansing that was Eme. Yes, there were black and brown tensions before what's going on now but it mostly revolved around black gang vs brown gang Eme took it to the level of just killing blacks period so your point isn't valid. You also mention rappers such as cube, wayne sporting clothes like the Sureno. Naw that isn't totally true that style of dressing started with both black and brown they borrowed from each other a nd it just evolved. Blacks added their own flair to it the Brown had their on flair to it. For example you never say blacks wearing the flannel shirts with only the top button, buttoned up that was stricly brown, but blacks did where flannel shirts but rocked them their own way, so again your point is invalid. You got to remember blacks and browns in Cali grew up in many cases in close proximity to one another so, of course both groups will have many styles in common. So it's a little hard to totally be accurate about who started what. Remember the Zoot suits, it wasn't the Mexicans who started wearing those first it was the blacks.

[Cold Bear]

Just got back from a quick trip to LA. Out there I have to admit I copped a couple of these compilations called BLVD Phunk. I mean the shit even has 13 fuckin songs on every compilation, with sureno imagery on the covers
http://www.cruizinmemories.com/BLVD_PHU ... kvol11.htm

Black dude who saw me getting the CDs along w/ a lot of other Latin shit like Latin Oldies, which has a more Latin influence than the other shit, kinda gave me the eye like "ay what the fuck is this?" lol

Tell the truth Chicano compilations it's the best place to get rare 80's funk, cause it's the best music to cruise to, and it deals with relationship issues, and it's not straight up rap which is what you could say owned by Blacks. It's funny that it is very Black music but Chicanos definitely keep the tradition alive. White people call it "Boogie" and they are very into it as well as far as being collectors of rare 80's shit that has that synthesizer funk sound, but they're tastes are a little different, it runs into disco and it's not that stripped down urban sound that Chicanos can feel. When you hit up Funkmosphere at Carbon in Culver City, home of Dam Funk who is a master collector and DJ of 80's funk, you will sometimes see a good amount of cholos in there listening to the music and prolly taking some notes LOL and it's all peace.

They just like that old school feel. Plenty of Chicano artists like Jorge Santana, Los Alacranes, Malo, Thee Midnighters, El Chicano, Azteca, Tierra, etc. put a very Latin groove on soul and funk music. But at the same time the Zapp style funk you witness on the BLVD Phunk compilations and AAAALLLL over the hundreds of funk themed Myspace pages outta Santa Ana, Wilmington, Wasco, cities like that, are straight up Black.

It's been like that since even I was a kid. A lot of those songs on Blvd Phunk I listened to today I heard at chicano functions growing up. Black folks don't really check for the old stuff like that. It's reminiscent of an older time, which Chicanos are almost obsessed with... tradition, history, never changing w/ trends. The topics they sing about and the sound of it goes w/ the lifestyle and always has.

[policyking52]

[quote="Cold Bear"]Just got back from a quick trip to LA. Out there I have to admit I copped a couple of these compilations called BLVD Phunk. I mean the shit even has 13 fuckin songs on every compilation, with sureno imagery on the covers
http://www.cruizinmemories.com/BLVD_PHU ... kvol11.htm

Black dude who saw me getting the CDs along w/ a lot of other Latin shit like Latin Oldies, which has a more Latin influence than the other shit, kinda gave me the eye like "ay what the fu-- is this?" lol

Dude you should have grabbed some of them cds for me. I love that shit. I got to hand it for to the chicanos who are keeping that shit alive. Even though they original artist aren't making any money off these bootlegged compiliations, but hell I still buy them though lol.

[mayugastank]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!

Now do black artists who ink themselves in the style of fine line black and grey----or the musicians wearing cholo chicano gang gear on their shirts think about the machine who created the art?

An artform mind you that begun amongst oppressed Mexican Americans who sought out an identity? Why do these rappers wear the uniform of their supposed enemy?

I know the rest of the world likes black music but I still find it strange that a group of people who are killing soley based on skin color if you have that much hate that you would kill a person just because of the color of their skin then you would think that group would want nothing to do with that group of people music or anything else. The music tht I was mentioning is old black soul music which a lot of black people don't even listen to anymore which why is often called lost soul music. So they take great pains to find this music a put it out on cd collections all the while hating the people who made the music, strange to me very very strange.

As far as rappers wearing enemies of their so called enemy I don't think it was the rappers who started the ethnic cleansing that was Eme. Yes, there were black and brown tensions before what's going on now but it mostly revolved around black gang vs brown gang Eme took it to the level of just killing blacks period so your point isn't valid. You also mention rappers such as cube, wayne sporting clothes like the Sureno. Naw that isn't totally true that style of dressing started with both black and brown they borrowed from each other a nd it just evolved. Blacks added their own flair to it the Brown had their on flair to it. For example you never say blacks wearing the flannel shirts with only the top button, buttoned up that was stricly brown, but blacks did where flannel shirts but rocked them their own way, so again your point is invalid. You got to remember blacks and browns in Cali grew up in many cases in close proximity to one another so, of course both groups will have many styles in common. So it's a little hard to totally be accurate about who started what. Remember the Zoot suits, it wasn't the Mexicans who started wearing those first it was the blacks.

Blacks and browns did not borrow from eachother to create the worlds most popular form of artistry..........which is currently blasted across a 1000 rappers bodies.The form of tattooing didnt originate with blacks. It started amongst mexicans in the states of Texas-Arizona-New Mexico-Nevada-Colorado. Which is why 80% of all African Americans live in the southern states and the lowriders/tattoo culture/dickies and ben davis/red and blue/gang symbols and signs/flashing/pendletons and black and grey tattooos didnt originate in the south. I have said it a million times .........if you want to see African American culture go to the south.........jazz/bluegrass/soul food/.........not dickies/lowriders/red/blue inked up.................those are mexican styles that blacks copied! They didnt bring it to Los Angelos from Mississippi or Louisiana! It was brought to Los Angelos from other mexicans in Texas! mainly! The entire westcoast getdown is nothing but plays on chicano culture. Why would TYGA blast a form of tattooing on his body that started amongst mexican american convicts who sought out their own identity against White American Society? I mean does TYGA long to be Mexican? What about GAME? Show me one African American outside of Los Angelos or anywhere mexicans reside that ever got the form of tattooing ---50 cent-Eminem-Tupac-Game -Cube-Ice Tyga-Wayne- do? Show me one African American outside of Los Angelos who sported the dickies/flannels/drove lowriders/graffitied in teh style of Mexican American gangs! NOWHERE......................but in reverse Mexican youths' in Texas-Arizona-New Mexico-Nevada-Colorado,.......all have got the same inkwork-drove the same whips-had same gangs styles-dressed the same across the board in all southern states. Mexican American gangs in Los Angelos outlive EVERY black gang by over 50 years in most cases! IT isnt some big coincidence that we happen to dress similair in Los Angelos but we dont dress similar in New York! African Americans from the west coast REALLY stand out amongst African Americans' nationwide because..............they dress/drive/gang structured/graffitiied/ and patterned themselves after Mexicans!!! You point to blacks not wearing the top button on a flannel ? Well show me where outside Los Angelos .,....they wore flannels and dickies and chucks and rags to begin with? Its like me braiding my hair singing rap in spanish-eating some gumbo with "salsa" in it and claiming I didnt rip off blacks!!!!!!!!

[mayugastank]

They just like that old school feel. Plenty of Chicano artists like Jorge Santana, Los Alacranes, Malo, Thee Midnighters, El Chicano, Azteca, Tierra, etc. put a very Latin groove on soul and funk music. But at the same time the Zapp style funk you witness on the BLVD Phunk compilations and AAAALLLL over the hundreds of funk themed Myspace pages outta Santa Ana, Wilmington, Wasco, cities like that, are straight up Black.

It's been like that since even I was a kid. A lot of those songs on Blvd Phunk I listened to today I heard at chicano functions growing up. Black folks don't really check for the old stuff like that. It's reminiscent of an older time, which Chicanos are almost obsessed with... tradition, history, never changing w/ trends. The topics they sing about and the sound of it goes w/ the lifestyle and always has.

Yes sir latino artists gave soul their own "twist"..............but who in reality originated it? Do we ever hear some hairbrain argument about blacks not having started prefunk-disco-jazz-funk-soul? All chicanos know it is an artform originated by African Americans they like the music most definetly.........they gave it their own twist......asuredly.

Kinda like the crips/bloods did the cholo-vato-look. But in this case blacks swear they didnt jack the look-art-tattoos-lowriders-stacking-colors-and getdown.......NO> They want to say we borrowed from eachother! Patently FALSE. We borrowed nothing from eachother............blacks did to the westcoast style what chicanos like santana-el chicano-azteca-tierra all did to black music...............copy-imitate-change up a bit and repackage and resell liek something original or something that wasnt ripped off. Give me a break..........cube and game and snoop and dre are all mexican lite.

[policyking52]

[Look here! Blacks didn't borrow the Mexican form of tattooing. Blacks to be getting tattoos but most of them just have tattoos not in the same elobarate fashion as the Mexican bangers. It can be argued that, the style in question isn't even Mexican that it's borrowed from the Japanese yaquza. Did the borrown from the Mexicans too??? As well as Eastern European gangs tatoo in a similar fashion.
Who started wearing the White Ts first? Who started wearing the colored rags on the head first? Who started the hand shakes first? No one stole much of anything from the Mexicans. You referenced Ice Cube in one of your pst. Well let me quote him regarding when he was asked some years ago about the gang look from L.A. that was sweeping the country. He said that they ( referring to him and other youths he came up with) weren't trying to start a fashion trend or anything N***s was just wearing what they could afford. You could take a few bucks get some khakis and a back of tshirts and you have clothes for the week. So you see blacks didn't borrow from the Mexicans they developed their own style. Like I said both groups grew up in proximity to one another so some overlap would of course be possible and expected.

[mayugastank]

[Look here! Blacks didn't borrow the Mexican form of tattooing. Blacks to be getting tattoos but most of them just have tattoos not in the same elobarate fashion as the Mexican bangers. It can be argued that, the style in question isn't even Mexican that it's borrowed from the Japanese yaquza. Did the borrown from the Mexicans too??? As well as Eastern European gangs tatoo in a similar fashion.
Who started wearing the White Ts first? Who started wearing the colored rags on the head first? Who started the hand shakes first? No one stole much of anything from the Mexicans. You referenced Ice Cube in one of your pst. Well let me quote him regarding when he was asked some years ago about the gang look from L.A. that was sweeping the country. He said that they ( referring to him and other youths he came up with) weren't trying to start a fashion trend or anything N***s was just wearing what they could afford. You could take a few bucks get some khakis and a back of tshirts and you have clothes for the week. So you see blacks didn't borrow from the Mexicans they developed their own style. Like I said both groups grew up in proximity to one another so some overlap would of course be possible and expected.

Yukuza? Eastern Europeans >? these people tattoo in fashion that is 100% in the opposite direction of mexican gangs ---the yukuza tattoo in color----the eastern europeans have not even close to the designs Mexican bangers came up with. This style of tattooing has a name and started with a people under oppression who sought out an identity and a way to retain their manhood in the face of white aggression........blacks dont just get to put it on their skin without acknowledging that. Just liek you seek to label Surenos for listening to black music why do your people wear our patterns/dress like us/stack like us??? I mean you make it sound like Los Angelos blacks arent the most different blacks nationwide!!!!!!!!Ice Cube said they was wearing what they could afford? LOL>....so why werent blacks wearing it in Oakland or in the deep south? Gang look from Los Angelos..........there you go with your black lies ....like it just started in a region and not with a people. Mexicans were wearing khakis/pendletons/white Ts/lowriding in Texas and Arizona before they were in California! Blacks were not wearing those styles in New York -Chicago-Texas or even in Oakland! which is in Califas! a few hours away blacks were wearing the style of blacks nationwide the hip hop /multitude of colors etc!! Crips and Bloods are an invention that rode the back of historic mexican gangs. The styel of the westcoast what people think is a regional flavor is a style developed by mexicans for mexicans that EVERYONE took and repackaged. You dont see Mexicans getting inked up like blacks do. In fact growing up teh only tattoos blacks around Los Angelos would get would be delivered by the hand of a mexican. Do you wonder why mexicans and blacks dress similiar? Take a look at the photo below and youll understand. THE GAME getting inked up by a vato. These Los Angelos blacks have taken this style to other regional blacks but this style is MEXICAN and blacks had NO hand in it. In fact all they did was sell what we did since the early 1900s. Oldest gang in America? located in East Los Angelos.......started in 1890..........still there today! There arent any black gangs with this history. We borrowed nothing from blacks to get the cholo look. Even the zootsuit............was started 40 years after mexican gansg were around. You go to East Los Angelos and there aint a mexican gang under 80 years young. There aint a black gang in America coast to coast with that history. West Coast is a blasphemous lie black rappers used to steal and cold jack everything we been doing for over a 100 years.........

[Rudog]

Blah blah blah blah

[policyking52]

[Look here! Blacks didn't borrow the Mexican form of tattooing. Blacks to be getting tattoos but most of them just have tattoos not in the same elobarate fashion as the Mexican bangers. It can be argued that, the style in question isn't even Mexican that it's borrowed from the Japanese yaquza. Did the borrown from the Mexicans too??? As well as Eastern European gangs tatoo in a similar fashion.
Who started wearing the White Ts first? Who started wearing the colored rags on the head first? Who started the hand shakes first? No one stole much of anything from the Mexicans. You referenced Ice Cube in one of your pst. Well let me quote him regarding when he was asked some years ago about the gang look from L.A. that was sweeping the country. He said that they ( referring to him and other youths he came up with) weren't trying to start a fashion trend or anything N***s was just wearing what they could afford. You could take a few bucks get some khakis and a back of tshirts and you have clothes for the week. So you see blacks didn't borrow from the Mexicans they developed their own style. Like I said both groups grew up in proximity to one another so some overlap would of course be possible and expected.

Yukuza? Eastern Europeans >? these people tattoo in fashion that is 100% in the opposite direction of mexican gangs ---the yukuza tattoo in color----the eastern europeans have not even close to the designs Mexican bangers came up with. This style of tattooing has a name and started with a people under oppression who sought out an identity and a way to retain their manhood in the face of white aggression........blacks dont just get to put it on their skin without acknowledging that. Just liek you seek to label Surenos for listening to black music why do your people wear our patterns/dress like us/stack like us??? I mean you make it sound like Los Angelos blacks arent the most different blacks nationwide!!!!!!!!Ice Cube said they was wearing what they could afford? LOL>....so why werent blacks wearing it in Oakland or in the deep south? Gang look from Los Angelos..........there you go with your black lies ....like it just started in a region and not with a people. Mexicans were wearing khakis/pendletons/white Ts/lowriding in Texas and Arizona before they were in California! Blacks were not wearing those styles in New York -Chicago-Texas or even in Oakland! which is in Califas! a few hours away blacks were wearing the style of blacks nationwide the hip hop /multitude of colors etc!! Crips and Bloods are an invention that rode the back of historic mexican gangs. The styel of the westcoast what people think is a regional flavor is a style developed by mexicans for mexicans that EVERYONE took and repackaged. You dont see Mexicans getting inked up like blacks do. In fact growing up teh only tattoos blacks around Los Angelos would get would be delivered by the hand of a mexican. Do you wonder why mexicans and blacks dress similiar? Take a look at the photo below and youll understand. THE GAME getting inked up by a vato. These Los Angelos blacks have taken this style to other regional blacks but this style is MEXICAN and blacks had NO hand in it. In fact all they did was sell what we did since the early 1900s. Oldest gang in America? located in East Los Angelos.......started in 1890..........still there today! There arent any black gangs with this history. We borrowed nothing from blacks to get the cholo look. Even the zootsuit............was started 40 years after mexican gansg were around. You go to East Los Angelos and there aint a mexican gang under 80 years young. There aint a black gang in America coast to coast with that history. West Coast is a blasphemous lie black rappers used to steal and cold jack everything we been doing for over a 100 years.........

You laugh about what Ice Cube says well he said it not me this was years ago. As far as why Oakland. In your rambling you pretty much confirmed what I had said. Blacks and Mexicans grew up in close proximity so yes there is some similiarities in their style. All I was saying that to say blacks just straight up borrowed from Mexicans is a stretch. But as I said last time blacks added their own flavor. You NEVER saw blacks wear the checkered shirts with only the topped button fastened like the Vatos do. I see you don't dispute that the colored bandanas, handshakes started with the blacks, as well as the white T genre. You point about rappers is plain stupid seeing how black people invented rap and gangsta rap. ( unless you are going to claim the vatos started that too?)Study your history blaks were wearing zoot suits as far back as the 1930s in Harlem. You are really talking trash when you say their aint a black gang in America with that history. In the Midwest you got black gangs going back as far is they late 1800s early 1900s.
Its no surpise that GAME was getting a tatto from a Vato because until recently blacks didn't even that much get tattoos that was considered a white thing. So out in Cali the mexicans were deep into that so they went to them, just like in other areas they went to whites. Also remember the early eighties a whole lot of Vatos were claiming Crip and Blood they had whole vato sets of these black gangs.
I stiill want to point out again sense you say that backs cold jocked everything from you vatos??? Who started gangsta rapping first? Who stared the soul music first that the surenos love so much even modeled their latin soul after?

[mayugastank]

who started gangster rap? blacks............soul music..............blacks. Bandana banging/flashing gang signs/gang graffiti/modern style of street tattooing/lowriding/red/blue and who has the worlds oldest gangs? MEXICANS and specifically MExicans from East Los Angelos. Their is NOT ONE black gang in AMERICA older then the youngest gang in East Los Angelos. PERIOD.

Whats considered young gangs in East Los Angelos? 1950s........Americans oldest black gang? Vice Lords . 1958.

Miss me their arent even close to the dozen and dozens of chicano varrios throughout Texas and Socal ..........who are over 90 years old. In East Los there are dozen gangs that started in the 1920s...........38th street.White Fence.Maravilla. Hazard.LA RANA. Jardin.......................gangs that are ACTIVE today which started in the early 1900s and such.

The entire gangster culture that black rappers exported was a rip off of mexican gangs.......do you really believe crips and bloods just so happen to come out with teh same colors as Nortenos and Surenos? BY ACCIDENT........lol.

G THANG-THE CHRONIC-on and on and on...........were shocking to us chicanos in East Los because these videos and rappers were dressed in chicano fashion NOT BLACK FASHION. You can go anywhere outside of Los Angelos anywhere at all in America ---NEw York -Harlem-Lousiana-New Orleans -Missippi JAckson and there are NOT even close to what Snoop and Dre and Easy E were dressed/droved or stacked.

Blacks sold most of what mexicans did to the world as some sort of WESTCOAST...........its just plain thieving. say what you want about the music. I dont disagree. But you lie when you say their are black gangs with even HALF the history of chicano gangs from Texas and East Los Angelos. We set the trend because we have done it the longest.

[mayugastank]

Look dude blacks merely changed up and gave the mexican cholo look their own style in Los Angelos. Its your exact same argument about mexican groups like Santana and others who changed black music up to make it sound "latino-chicano". The arguments are 100% identical.

What I dont get is how you or anyone can deny when looking at EASY E and or GAME-TYGA-LIL WAYNE-KID CUDDY-JR SMITH-WAK -MAINO-TUPACs thug life tattoo-EMINEM- and a million other brothers who dress like cholos/get inked 100% in our fashion that this isnt the exact same thing !!!!!!!!!


THESE FOOLS are wannabe mexicans.......I mean if you dress just like us and put our art all over your bodies what else could you be? Do a google search on BOW WOW and youll see mexican prison art blasted all over the kids body.........in a few years blacks will not even know that this was our style of tattooing going back a 100 years......

The art is called fine line black and grey. It originated in prisons in the southwest-amongst Mexicans. Its our biggest identifier .........yet blacks wear it without permission. But your thread seeks acknowledgment of what chicanos listen to? Are you kidding me?

[Jonathanvic]

What I want to know is when did Mexicans become Blacks masters? We don't need permission from Mexicans or anyone else to any damned thing, you jackass.

[policyking52]

.Let me break this down once and for all for you. You keep saying that Black gangsters and rapper stole their image from Mexicans

1. Hair: Black gangstes and rappers are notorious for wearing braids or dread locks.They is even a specific style I can't recall the name the Crips were notorious for wearing. In no way for or fashion did they get this from Mexicans. However one can see quite a few mexican bangers and rappers rocking braids both male and female, so who's taking from who?

2. Crip walking Blood walking.For a long time one couldn't watch a rap video without seeing someone crip walking or blood walking. You are saying blacks stole a dancing style from Mexicans??? I can just picture it Mira amigo que voy a iniciar un estilo llamado sureno caminando LFMAO

3. Many black rappers and gang bangers rock the gold teeth/grills. This didn't start with Mexican it didn't even start in Cali it truly orginate a long time ago with black pimps getting gold teeth in their mouths, but for the time in questions it became popular from blacks in the south dirty south rappers started that and put it on the map

4. Sagging of the pants: Now this stupid ass trend I wish Mexicans did start, but most accounts record it was started by blacks from the prison system because they couldn't wear belts some say it was the ones who are someone's bitch hard to wear it like that but at any rate blacks started this as a look

5. Bald heads. It was a trend for a lil minute that a lot of rappers and black gang members to rock the bald head. This equaly with the braids and locks didn't come from Mexicans blacs have forever been wearing the bald head. Now one can see a lot of the Vatos rocking bald heads be they gang bangers or rappers. Who are they trying to be like? Maybe the nazi skinheads

6. Gangsta Rap is well acknoldged that Ice-T is the father of gangsa rap. Look at his early videos, album covers etc their is nothing Vato about him. After him NWA took it to the next level. Look at their early videos and photos. Most of the time they were wearing all black sweat shirts, or tshirts, black pants, black caps and white gym shoes. Neutral colors that a lot of blacks wore who weren't affilated with red or blue. You never saw them with hair nets on their head checker shirts with only the top button fastened

7. You said bloods and crips got blue and red from Nort and Sur. Wrong again. Bloods got red from T. Rodger. He was from Chicago and a member of the Almighty Black P. Stone nation and their colors were red. Trust me P. Stone founders Jeff Fort and Eugene Harriston didn't get this from the Vatos. When T got to L.A. he sent back to Chi for one of his people and the orgnaized what is now know as Bloods and started his own Black P Stone Bloods that's where they got red from not from Surs. Matter of fact orignally Crips wore red bandanas but when the bloods started wearing red the Crips naturally switched to the opposite colr blue, so agin nothing to do with Mexicans.

8. Earrings. Most black rappers and bangers are known to wear earrings. This didn't come from the vatos blacks had been wearing earing way back in the black power movement linking to their African roots not to the Aztecs .

9. Caps. Its common to see black rappes wearing their baseball cap turned to the left or right. This didn't come from the vatos this is a look black Chicago gangs started

10. Baggy clothes. A lot of rappers west coast included rock the baggy look. Again nothing borrowed from Mexicans this is East Coast look originated with black youth in NY who were wear baggy clothes to make it easier to conceal the drugs they were carrying to sell.

11. Gang hand signs and handshakes. Black gangs didn't get this from Mexicans. Black gangs in Chicago were during this way way back in the day. And even before them it's been documented that blacks have long used hand signs in the underground railroad, in black elk and masonic lodges and black fraternities so this is something that's been in black culture since forever even before america.

12. Gang stacking. Telling a story with hand signs to piggy back of the above black gangs started too and the mexicans jumped on board

13. Slang. Black gangs and rappers have their own unique slang such as Crips saying Cuz. Even in the nearest black hood to a mexican hood you don't hear black gangs or rappers saying stuff like Ese. However one will hear Mexican in L.A and elswehre using heavy black slang even in the midst of using spanish and spanglish there talk will be laced with heavy black slang it's not even uncommon to hear Surs calling each other nigga. So who is stealing from who?

14. Dancing I mentioned the Crip walk earlier but all of the dancing that went with west coast gangsta rap are you really saying blacks got that idea from Mexican cholos? BS

15. Zoot suits. Zoot suits emerged out of the jazz music era of the early 1930 maybe even late 20s in Harlem. These were black musicans and even some Jewish but not Mexican.( Unless you are about to tell me Jazz music was created by blacks stealing from mexican music) Zoot didn't make it down to Cali until later If one looks at old photos on concerts, read memooirs of that era all of the earliest recordings of the zoots are of blacks in Harlem so agin nothing stole from the vatos.

16. You mentioned that the vice lords starting in 1958 as blacks oldest gang. This is wrong on 2 levels. First of all vices began way beofe 58. I've personally scence news papers from the 1920s mentioning vice lords. Just like people think the Disciples started with David Barksdale in the early 60s. Wrong this is an old old gang. Both these gangs we surface die out then reemerge again, but it wasn't until the late 50s early 60s that they stuck. But besides this there are other much older black gangs suchs as the abos, gents etc many that don't exist anymore becuase they were absored into one of the above 2 groups or other nations.

17. You mentioned another fallacy that Mexican gangs are the oldest. Mexicans nor black gangs are the oldest the white gangs are. White people had gangs before both groups. Just look at the movie "Gangs of New York" This was suppossed to take place sometime in the 1800s but theirs recordered history of white gangs going back even before this. (Yes white people aslo bang)
Real talk it's really impossible to accurately know who started the first gang. It's a well know fact that most gangs (discounting the wannabes and rich kids who think gangs are so cool) started out of conditions of oppression, poverty, fear and isolation. So Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Italians, Irish etc all have a history of this so each group early in their history started gangs. Not to imiatate so one else, but for survial. Sometimes these gangs had names, sometimes they didn't so who really had the rist gang is anybody's guess. Black people were forming what can be considered gangs shortly after slavery in 1865 to fight of KKK even before this during slavery in free states blacks had gangs to protect themselves against white who saught to abuse them, with no idea of Mexican anything. Mexican gang history does go way way back too because they also faced oppression at the hands of the dominate culture and they weren't think about copying blacks they were thinking about survival.

18. To piggy back off the above in the early 80s and 90s maybe even before this their were whole sets of Mexican Bloods and Crips. Do you deny this? Let me ask you can you tell me a set of blacks using a mexican gang name? ( you are probably going to say it was mexicans who started bloodsd and crips) so whose copying who here? In other parts of the country there are mexican neighborhoods that are dominated by mexican bloods and crips not the black ones.

19. Even if mexican gangs are older the idea of gang structure and organization was taken from the blacks. It wasn't until the era of crips and bloods did L.A. have gangs that spread across neighborhoods. The Crips started it by absorbing local neighborhood black gangs and making them take on Crip but he didn't necessarily unite them as one. The Bloods under T.Rodgers were formed, organized and united, that's why for the longest Bloods sets pretty much stuck together whereas Crips sets would battle each other as bad as they would the Bloods. Early Mexican gangs didn't unite across neighborhood until the blood crip era and when they did many of them united as a blood set or crip set.
If you want to mention how La Ema and Nuestra Famalia organized most of the north and south street gangs under the Norteno and Sureno banner, yes they did do that, but they didn't origniate that. That was pulled of a long time ago first by Jeff Fort and Eugene Harristion when the were Black Stone Rangers they made all other black gangs in the area take on stone or ranger in their name making them part of the Black P.Stone Nation guided by the Main 21 this concept was taken to the next level by other Black gang leaders such as Larry Hoover as they established the Folk and People nation which put all the gangs in the city irrespective of color under alls well or alls one, 5 point start or 6 point star etc.

20. Graffi. If one looks at gang graffati in a vato hood then a black hood one will quickly notice the stark differences. I'm not saying blacks started the whole graffati things. I personally believe this was individually started by every group. One can look at photos old photos in Paris and see graffati. But I will say Black gangs in L.A. didn't get it from Mexicans. Both gropus probably got if from Black and Hispanics ( when I say hispanic I'm referring to Puerto Ricans not Mexicans)from New York. They may not have started graffati but they sure as hell put it on the map.

21. Tattos: I might have to give you this one. Blacks gangs were probably using tattoos before black gangs by in large. Tattooing is new to blacks as a whole it was always considered a white thing for the most part. Seeing how blacks really weren't into tattoo it's not surprising that they went to and still in large probably go to a vato. And when the vato did the tattoo they did it mexican style. However a lot of the rappers you refer to there is a distinct difference in the tattooing. Blacks don't have a lot of they religous symbolism the vatos have for example. I will add this one can argue that the Surs who going around with the bald heads and tattoo faced they are coping that look from the nazi skin head and aryan brotherhood because they've been sporting that look for a good while.

22. Cars: I'm willling to bet that the low rider thing especially using the hydraculic/hitting switches started with the vatos. But I wonder how blacks got into in. Maybe when blacks and mexicans saw each other and those were they played black soul music that to this day mexicans love so much or a rap music show which mexicans love so much

Ok I'm bored now so I'm going to end with this. Maybe there are some things that blacks may have gotten from Mexicans just as there are some things no duubt mexicans got from blacks, but to say that the whole gangsta hip hop culture is stolen by blacks from mexicans is just plain old stupid. But believe what you want. One can even argue that neither group took anything from the other. As I said before when you have 2 groups of people living in close proximity of each other similiraties are boud to happen. Hell just look at Jews and Arabs in the middle east they shit is damn near the same even though jews came first both groups got shit in common that predates both of them they develped shit based of local with each other in mind. And saying blacks took shit from Cholos in East L.A come on now back in the day and especially today blacks weren't rollign through East Los nor were Vatos rolling through deep parts of South Central everybody stayed in the own hood.

[policyking52]

[quote="mayugastank"][quote="policyking52"][quote="mayugastank"]Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!



You say blacks from the west coast stand out amongst blacks from everywhere else? Now you are an expert on black cultre? Well that is your opinion because where I'm from we thing those dirty south blacks stand out the most it's always been like that the southern blacks damn near have they own language. And the Blacks from the midwest especially Chicago truly stand out in how they kick it. You can be anywhere in America and people will know a black from Chicago.

No blacks elsewhere didn't by in large wear wear flannel and khakis until the emergence of west coast because it was considred country. Up here prior to west coast rap we would laugh our asses off if somebody came to school in a shirt like that. People across L.A. was wearing that shit because it was cheap and the could afford it. But each group rocked it their own way. You really trying to tell me a black person never picked up a flanned shirt until he say a mexican wearing it. Shit I got old black and white family photos of realitves in missippi wearing flannel shirts from before world war II. So keeping it real that flannel shirt shit is real some country ass dressing style that was picked up on in L.A.

You say people rarely think about the artist who make the music that's bs and you don't know history. Everything in America is about race. Black music used to be called race music to stop white kids from listening to it. All the controvesry around black music especially rap a lways turns to a thing about race, so one can't listen to rap and not think about race. In any interview with a black musican they start that talk about how they got their style from gospel signing in the church. But other music aside everyone now rap music is black and people who hate mayates really begs a question is to why the listen to it let alone copy it. And far as black rappers wearing mexican tattoos blacks didn't start the war to this day you still got mexicans in black gangs, blacks never tried to cleanse mexican from their hoods, so the comparison isn't the same.

And some of those blacks you mentioned were banging before Eme issued it's green light on all blacks, so those rappers most likely got their tattoo from a Mexican in his gang. There were large sets of Mexican bloods and crips before the Sureno banner started and Snoops tattoos don't really look all that Mexican and Cube does he even have tattoos?

[MMRbkaRudog]

I think the lop got his topics mixed up. Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=233&t=37635&p=8737119#p8737119

[mayugastank]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!



You say blacks from the west coast stand out amongst blacks from everywhere else? Now you are an expert on black cultre? Well that is your opinion because where I'm from we thing those dirty south blacks stand out the most it's always been like that the southern blacks damn near have they own language. And the Blacks from the midwest especially Chicago truly stand out in how they kick it. You can be anywhere in America and people will know a black from Chicago.

No blacks elsewhere didn't by in large wear wear flannel and khakis until the emergence of west coast because it was considred country. Up here prior to west coast rap we would laugh our asses off if somebody came to school in a shirt like that. People across L.A. was wearing that shit because it was cheap and the could afford it. But each group rocked it their own way. You really trying to tell me a black person never picked up a flanned shirt until he say a mexican wearing it. Shit I got old black and white family photos of realitves in missippi wearing flannel shirts from before world war II. So keeping it real that flannel shirt shit is real some country ass dressing style that was picked up on in L.A.

You say people rarely think about the artist who make the music that's bs and you don't know history. Everything in America is about race. Black music used to be called race music to stop white kids from listening to it. All the controvesry around black music especially rap a lways turns to a thing about race, so one can't listen to rap and not think about race. In any interview with a black musican they start that talk about how they got their style from gospel signing in the church. But other music aside everyone now rap music is black and people who hate mayates really begs a question is to why the listen to it let alone copy it. And far as black rappers wearing mexican tattoos blacks didn't start the war to this day you still got mexicans in black gangs, blacks never tried to cleanse mexican from their hoods, so the comparison isn't the same.

And some of those blacks you mentioned were banging before Eme issued it's green light on all blacks, so those rappers most likely got their tattoo from a Mexican in his gang. There were large sets of Mexican bloods and crips before the Sureno banner started and Snoops tattoos don't really look all that Mexican and Cube does he even have tattoos?

There you go OF COURSE people were wearing flannels .........but were they wearing like ESEs do? You point to it being a California thing! NIL~~ its a southwestern chicano thing. The form of tattooing mexicans gangs have done since the 1920s has developed extremely unique........its a form of art NEVER seen anywhere in the world. People across all cultures ot the dawn of man........sported tattoos.........but NONE ever sported or came up with the styles seen on YOUNG MEXICAN AMERICANS from texas-arizona-nevada-colorado-new mexico and california. This artform is on everything you look at today.......graphic shirts/billabong/vans/jordans/rappers bodies/white boys/ EVERYONE! Up until the mid 1990s NO ONE besides chicanos EVER used this artform........and it was never done inany country.

You find tattoos across the world and only the JAPANESE and CHICANO have the detail/placement and colors. There was a documentary on modern tattooing and they traced the roots of it all to chicano gang members. This artform has an extreme significance to Chicanos......being mexican was cause for prejudice --being a mexican all tat down in the 1940s........was in and of itself a form of declaration of war against WHITE SOCIETY. I recieved my first tattoo in the exact same fashion of most mexicans* by the hand of a convict out on parole in the early 1990s.

I didnt begin to see -OUR art on "others" till the 2000s. What I meant by people listening to black music and not giving it a thought is that the german kids/japanese kids/austaralians/eskimos etc......who jam to it in their countries dont realize how this art developed. Gospel was a form of prayer blacks would use to lament the racist -evil bigoted country they were forced to live in. I personally appreciate its roots. When I listen to rap/motown/jazz Ive thought about how much of the music and its origins were inspired by racism -hardship-murder and inustice. Blacks put it all on lyrics and spoke it through song........now blacks like you seek to REMIND-mexicans -why and who invented it ...........I merely countered........that the label "westcoast" is a blatant attempt to still the heritage of American "other" underground culture.

A vast majority of these rappers were tattooed by chicanos--but why is our art being sported with no permission by MAINO from NYC and WAK from Georgia? theyve never met nor grew up with chicanos? who did they ask permission from to wear the war paint of my people?

Its the same argument.........blacks and browns in Los Angelos are at war.......in many citys' it isnt just the surenos doing the killing;.......read up on F13 and ECC and youll see a full scale gang war with both sides blasting away......innocent mexicans and blacks. Also you issued a blanket statement about "surenos" when their are citys all across California where no blacks and mexicans beef.

List of Black Brown gang wars and their locations?

Long Beach
Compton
South Central

These are the biggest and most murderous but yes its going on in many citys but not in all citys..........it isnt like surenos are popping blacks all over California!

[MMRbkaRudog]

Ignore this lop^

[femun]

How is he a lop? He's telling the truth but people just can't handle it.

[Quepolo3]

How is he a lop? He's telling the truth but people just can't handle it.

I'm not condoning any name calling or personal attacks, however it's like listening to a broken record. NO One on this site can definately say what race or group did or started any of the things that are being said. Unless thet were there when that particular event or item was created. Everything else is oppinion. We are supposed to be discussing certain topics like why Surenos love old Black soul music, not going back into topics already discussed. I value everyones oppionion, whether I agree or disagree with them. However, there is a limit to evertything. Moreover, I don't know if it's because people can't handle the truth or that it's annoying going back and forth over the same issues that will never be agreed upon.

[MMRbkaRudog]

How is he a lop? He's telling the truth but people just can't handle it.

I'm not condoning any name calling or personal attacks, however it's like listening to a broken record. NO One on this site can definately say what race or group did or started any of the things that are being said. Unless thet were there when that particular event or item was created. Everything else is oppinion. We are supposed to be discussing certain topics like why Surenos love old Black soul music, not going back into topics already discussed. I value everyones oppionion, whether I agree or disagree with them. However, there is a limit to evertything. Moreover, I don't know if it's because people can't handle the truth or that it's annoying going back and forth over the same issues that will never be agreed upon.

PLUS IT'S OFF TOPIC! Even if blacks were copying the style he's talking about, what does that have to do with people prejudice agaisnt blacks like their music? That's why he's a lop!

[Cold Bear]

yeah mayne dudes in here just tryna chop it up on one topic and we get the same story again and again

It detracts from the topic at hand

[policyking52]

Surenos love black music but so does the rest of the world. Black music is the worlds music. From reggaeton to salsa cumbia bacchata..........to motown -rap and hip hop......all are African derived types of music.

If we speak on whys' ............we have TYGA-LIL WAYNE-GAME-SNOOP-DRE-ICE CUBE-MAINO..........all sporting mexican gang style tattoos.........all dressing in the fashion Surenos started. They know about black and brown gang wars why do they ink themselves identically in the fashion of mexican gangs? WHY? because it looks good. WHY do surenos listen to black music? because it sounds good!

Black American music is so popular people RARELY think about the origins of the music. They dont contemplate the ties of slavery to gospel music nor the oppression and ghettoization of blacks in America contributing to their own form of speak-dress and music , shoot even food!



You say blacks from the west coast stand out amongst blacks from everywhere else? Now you are an expert on black cultre? Well that is your opinion because where I'm from we thing those dirty south blacks stand out the most it's always been like that the southern blacks damn near have they own language. And the Blacks from the midwest especially Chicago truly stand out in how they kick it. You can be anywhere in America and people will know a black from Chicago.

No blacks elsewhere didn't by in large wear wear flannel and khakis until the emergence of west coast because it was considred country. Up here prior to west coast rap we would laugh our asses off if somebody came to school in a shirt like that. People across L.A. was wearing that shit because it was cheap and the could afford it. But each group rocked it their own way. You really trying to tell me a black person never picked up a flanned shirt until he say a mexican wearing it. Shit I got old black and white family photos of realitves in missippi wearing flannel shirts from before world war II. So keeping it real that flannel shirt shit is real some country ass dressing style that was picked up on in L.A.

You say people rarely think about the artist who make the music that's bs and you don't know history. Everything in America is about race. Black music used to be called race music to stop white kids from listening to it. All the controvesry around black music especially rap a lways turns to a thing about race, so one can't listen to rap and not think about race. In any interview with a black musican they start that talk about how they got their style from gospel signing in the church. But other music aside everyone now rap music is black and people who hate mayates really begs a question is to why the listen to it let alone copy it. And far as black rappers wearing mexican tattoos blacks didn't start the war to this day you still got mexicans in black gangs, blacks never tried to cleanse mexican from their hoods, so the comparison isn't the same.

And some of those blacks you mentioned were banging before Eme issued it's green light on all blacks, so those rappers most likely got their tattoo from a Mexican in his gang. There were large sets of Mexican bloods and crips before the Sureno banner started and Snoops tattoos don't really look all that Mexican and Cube does he even have tattoos?

There you go OF COURSE people were wearing flannels .........but were they wearing like ESEs do? You point to it being a California thing! NIL~~ its a southwestern chicano thing. The form of tattooing mexicans gangs have done since the 1920s has developed extremely unique........its a form of art NEVER seen anywhere in the world. People across all cultures ot the dawn of man........sported tattoos.........but NONE ever sported or came up with the styles seen on YOUNG MEXICAN AMERICANS from texas-arizona-nevada-colorado-new mexico and california. This artform is on everything you look at today.......graphic shirts/billabong/vans/jordans/rappers bodies/white boys/ EVERYONE! Up until the mid 1990s NO ONE besides chicanos EVER used this artform........and it was never done inany country.

You find tattoos across the world and only the JAPANESE and CHICANO have the detail/placement and colors. There was a documentary on modern tattooing and they traced the roots of it all to chicano gang members. This artform has an extreme significance to Chicanos......being mexican was cause for prejudice --being a mexican all tat down in the 1940s........was in and of itself a form of declaration of war against WHITE SOCIETY. I recieved my first tattoo in the exact same fashion of most mexicans* by the hand of a convict out on parole in the early 1990s.

I didnt begin to see -OUR art on "others" till the 2000s. What I meant by people listening to black music and not giving it a thought is that the german kids/japanese kids/austaralians/eskimos etc......who jam to it in their countries dont realize how this art developed. Gospel was a form of prayer blacks would use to lament the racist -evil bigoted country they were forced to live in. I personally appreciate its roots. When I listen to rap/motown/jazz Ive thought about how much of the music and its origins were inspired by racism -hardship-murder and inustice. Blacks put it all on lyrics and spoke it through song........now blacks like you seek to REMIND-mexicans -why and who invented it ...........I merely countered........that the label "westcoast" is a blatant attempt to still the heritage of American "other" underground culture.

A vast majority of these rappers were tattooed by chicanos--but why is our art being sported with no permission by MAINO from NYC and WAK from Georgia? theyve never met nor grew up with chicanos? who did they ask permission from to wear the war paint of my people?

Its the same argument.........blacks and browns in Los Angelos are at war.......in many citys' it isnt just the surenos doing the killing;.......read up on F13 and ECC and youll see a full scale gang war with both sides blasting away......innocent mexicans and blacks. Also you issued a blanket statement about "surenos" when their are citys all across California where no blacks and mexicans beef.

List of Black Brown gang wars and their locations?

Long Beach
Compton
South Central

These are the biggest and most murderous but yes its going on in many citys but not in all citys..........it isnt like surenos are popping blacks all over California!

Dude, in your haste to argue you are actually confirming a lot of what I said. You and those damn flannel shirts. There are only so many ways a shirt can be worn. Yet and still blacks had their own flava and ese's had their own. You the one who said blacks stealing chicano culture.
I gave you the kool aodi points about the tattoos already. But I already posted a lengthy information tearing down your argument about this whole topic so I'm not going to say anymore. If you want to hold on to the idea that someone is stealing from the vatos and ignore the facts so be it. Peace Out!

[mayugastank]

How is he a lop? He's telling the truth but people just can't handle it.

I'm not condoning any name calling or personal attacks, however it's like listening to a broken record. NO One on this site can definately say what race or group did or started any of the things that are being said. Unless thet were there when that particular event or item was created. Everything else is oppinion. We are supposed to be discussing certain topics like why Surenos love old Black soul music, not going back into topics already discussed. I value everyones oppionion, whether I agree or disagree with them. However, there is a limit to evertything. Moreover, I don't know if it's because people can't handle the truth or that it's annoying going back and forth over the same issues that will never be agreed upon.

The only way we can definetly declare something NEW or TRULY never done is to look around the world and not see it anywhere ELSE. The style of Los Angelos chicano gangs was done in other places.....by other chicanos! The tattoo style was also done in other places by OTHER CHICANOS. Outside of the places where mexican youth lived this style of art and this style of clothing and the style of gangs WASNT DONE ANYWHERE ELSE!

When I say the oldest living gangs in the world are located in East Los Angelos its ABSOLUTELY 100% VERIFIABLE. Generation to Generation a people have passed down a language/art/and uniform in a specific region ( THE SOUTHWESTERN UNITED STATES).

You dont see MY PEOPLE permenantly etch on their bodies pictures of Africa-which your people do CONSISTENTLY! Everytime I turn on the tube and see a rapper flossing his ink I am reminded of the 1990s when this form of art was just making its way outside "CHICANO NEIGBORHOODS" but believe this it was practiced for many many years. You go outside the southwest and look at prison tatts and you see ZERO similarities to the way chicano convicts drew/placed and etched their bodies.

Blacks have stolen alot from chicanos ---and to honestly straightfaced say we just HAPPPENED BY ACCIDENT to come up with the same dam colors of gangs/dress/tattoos is a DAM LIE.

SHOW ME anywhere in America where blacks dressed/talked/formed gangs/got inked/whipped lows/white Ts/flannels.....................NOWHERE.

Its only living near and by mexicans that theyve adapted our styles.

EAST COAST versus WEST COAST....................means nothing but the styles of African Americans versus the styles of CHICANOS in fashion and art. The GAME/SNOOP/DRE/ICE/TUPAC/TYGA/ and many many many others merely took the look-demeanor -gang structure-artform and everything else about SouthWestern Chicanos and sold it like they were just some renegade out the frame blacks who were "100% COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" then their brethren.

Crips and Bloods are nothing but cholo rejects who took the entire getdown of their neighbors to an extreme war on flag colors. But make no mistake their is NOTHING original about EASY E and croonies. They look like dirtied up vatos in their videos!

[mayugastank]

policyking wrote"


Dude, in your haste to argue you are actually confirming a lot of what I said. You and those damn flannel shirts. There are only so many ways a shirt can be worn. Yet and still blacks had their own flava and ese's had their own. You the one who said blacks stealing chicano culture.
I gave you the kool aodi points about the tattoos already. But I already posted a lengthy information tearing down your argument about this whole topic so I'm not going to say anymore. If you want to hold on to the idea that someone is stealing from the vatos and ignore the facts so be it. Peace Out!


You gave me kool aid points about the ink? your real protective of whom listens to black music..........well im real protective of Americas and the worlds most popular artform being stolen from chicanos!

You do me a favor and go into BILLABONG tomorrow and tell ME that huge freaking swaths of that white boy surfer gear shop arent ripped off of chicano gang art. Rewatch " REAL MOTHAFUCKING Gz" by EASY E, and tell me that he DIDNT STEAL EVERYTHING from the vatos! I mean here we have a video that showed chicano street life being sold to black America as if it was just some way blacks out here lived! When in reality all EASY E did to make that video was coldjack everything about ESEs. Dont come complaining about who listens to yoru peoples music when your people have been stealing our styles and using our art all over TV selling it to the world like chicanos didnt invent it LOCO.

Why dont your people pay copyrights to sport our WARPAINT ESE? I mean you come on here throwing zootsuits around like it just started it all when zootsuits are 30-40 years then the gangs in East Los Angelos.