Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

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se11
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Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » April 30th, 2005, 7:21 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4475513.stm

US police handcuff five-year-old

"A lawyer has threatened to sue police officers who handcuffed an allegedly uncontrollable five-year-old after she acted up at a Florida kindergarten.

The officers were called by the school after a teacher and assistant principal failed to calm down the little girl.

The incident was caught on a video camera which was rolling in the classroom as part of a self-improvement exercise at the St Petersburg school.

A lawyer for the girl's mother said the episode was "incomprehensible".

The video, made public by the lawyer this week, shows the unfolding of the violent tantrum, which started when the little girl refused to take part in a maths lesson.

She then ripped some papers off a bulletin board and lashed out at staff trying to calm her down.

After calling her mother and learning she would not be able to pick up the child for at least one more hour, the teachers resorted to calling the police.

Three officers rushed to the scene and handcuffed the girl, by that time apparently calm, after pinning her arms behind her back.

The footage showed her in distress after being handcuffed.

They finally drove her to her mother in the back of a police cruiser.

The St Petersburg Police Department declined to comment on the incident and said an investigation was under way. "

should racial action be taken here? what do you think. i think you could watch the video of it all on the link.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by DC » April 30th, 2005, 7:48 pm

I dont think it has anything to do with race, it has more to do with weak cops who cannot control a five year old. I think these incompetant cops would have done the same to an out of control hispanic or white 5 year old. Seriously they should look for new employment.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Word » April 30th, 2005, 9:07 pm

se11 wrote:Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?


I hate how you and many other members on this board look at it as if a black person is convicted for anything, then it has to do with a racial matter. Just because they arrested a 5 yr. old doesnt mean squat shit that it has to do with her race.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » April 30th, 2005, 9:21 pm

the only reason i posted this was cause i seen this story on the news and they said black leaders in that area were meeting to discuss the issue of 3 white cops handcuffing a 5 year old black girl.

me, personally, this it is ridiculous to even bring race up with this, but some peopl bring race up no matter, n i just wanted to see what people here thought.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by DC » April 30th, 2005, 10:27 pm

thats the problem in society these days, its always a race issue. Forget about race, crime is crime, crime is universal and it happens in every country around the globe.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by purplecityhello » April 30th, 2005, 10:59 pm

if the child was white i doubt this would have happened

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » May 1st, 2005, 12:41 am

it was unnecessary for them to handcuff her, since she seemed calmer when they came in. but to press charges and sue them thats complete BS. cops handcuff most people they encounter.

if 3 black cops did this, or the kid was white, nobody would give two shits about this. this is more unnecessary problems being exagerated.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by julialee » May 1st, 2005, 1:03 am

So the Parents are exagerating in sueing? I don't think so , they should sue the police, the principal and the school district.
The school should be better trained and equiped in how to deal with children who have behavior problems.That shows the sorry state our schools are in.Under no circumstances should a 5 yr old child be handcuffed like a criminal.Its not right and for sure that little girl is going to grow up hating police and have more problems.And then law enforment wonders why people have such hate and distrust for them.
If that was my child, hell yeah i'd sue.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by WhiteBoy » May 1st, 2005, 1:43 am

julialee wrote:So the Parents are exagerating in sueing? I don't think so , they should sue the police, the principal and the school district.
The school should be better trained and equiped in how to deal with children who have behavior problems.That shows the sorry state our schools are in.Under no circumstances should a 5 yr old child be handcuffed like a criminal.Its not right and for sure that little girl is going to grow up hating police and have more problems.And then law enforment wonders why people have such hate and distrust for them.
If that was my child, hell yeah i'd sue.


yeah they should have maced her too.. c'mon now she was freaking right out,, what should they have held onto her til she ran out of energy? what would you have done? anybody?
oh for sure i hate the police for all the dirty shit that they did to me, but its not like they took her down, put a knee in her neck and called her some racial slurrs. they are cops they got called and did their job.
although i wish i had sued for getting arreste in school and filed with felony assault.... bla bla bla bla.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Anesis » May 1st, 2005, 9:13 am

Here is the viedo showing more of what she DID before the polic came:
http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/200 ... rest.shtml

There is so much more to this story that is important that we don't know. Did the girl has a legal behavior plan? There was supposedly a conflict between the mother, the assistant principal, and the child in the past. Mom thinks it's a personality conflict. She had hit the AP and kicked several other teachers. Does she do this on a daily basis? The mother had been called immediately, but didn't get there until an hour later. Apparantly things had gotten out of contol BEFORE this and the cops had already told her and her mother that if this happened again, he would put the cuffs on her. Apparantly she only calmed down when she was told that the cops were getting involved.

And from my experience , parents who blame "personality conflicts" between school staff and kids are an immediate warning sign. Like I have nothing else better to do in my life that concoct stories trying to get some kid in trouble? I don't get paid enough to be kicked, cussed at, or otherwise threatened.

It seems to me that this a case of bad parenting, from the evidence that I've seen.

What would I have done? It's easy for me to say this would have never happened, because it has never gotten this far.

Legally, there is not much that a teacher or an AP can do to calm down a kid nowadays. I'm not advocating corporal punishment, but I am sickened that the school felt like they had no other options other than the bring the cops in for a scare tactic.

A lawsuit is just going to hurt other schools that use law enforcement properly. What kind of effects are going to be seen in middle schools and high schools? Sure, watching a five year old hit a teacher may seem comical, but the majority of my students are bigger than me. I have been physically threated by an eleven year old who was throwing desks across the room. He had emotional problems and we dealt with it accordingly. He lived with the consequences, but he wasn't traumtized or humiliated.

And what would your response be if this five year had hurt a teacher? What if she pushed a teacher down and that teacher broke her hip? That coul dhave very easily happpened.

On the other hand, did they make it clear to the mother what would happen if she did not arrive immediatly? Is the girl in Special Education for behavior problems?

They should not have handcuffed this girl. They called the polic because she had spent almost an hour in a violent temper tantrum and the mother had not showed up. When she was told about the polic, she calmed down. She should have recieved consequences, but there was NO REASON at that point to restrain the girl. If they had to do it over again, do you actually think they would have handcuffed the child again? No.

One last comment: I have also heard that "if the police take you into custody the cuffs go on. Period. This is to avoid arguments and lawsuits about why one person gets cuffed and another doesn't." Any truth to that?

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Q » May 1st, 2005, 9:36 am

purplecityhello wrote:if the child was white i doubt this would have happened


exactly. a white girl would not have been handcuffed

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Anesis » May 1st, 2005, 9:58 am

Q wrote:exactly. a white girl would not have been handcuffed


And how do you know that? Is there a similar incident at that school of a white kid attacking teachers with a different ending?

If the teacher/cop/or assistant principal had been black, would it have made a difference? No.
Or are you saying that because a good of black leaders got together to discuss the incident? That doesn't mean squat. Even if they begged the question of discrimination, the lawyer isn't touching it. Which means there is no evidence to support that claim.

I didn't even bring it up earlier because it was so ridiculous to even mention. Just because a diabetic driver gets pulled from a car doesn't mean it is done because she has the last name of Leon. Just because a child who has a history of violence in schools gets handcuffed doesn't HAVE to mean she was handcuffed because she was black. Does that mean it shouldn't be a question at all? It depends on the situation.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Anesis » May 1st, 2005, 10:00 am

This has to be the BEST article that I have read about the situation since it became public -

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.asp ... hersbee427

Commentary: If She Doesn’t Get Help, That Five-Year-Old’s First Encounter with Cops Won’t Be Her Last
Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2005
By: Tonyaa Weathersbee, BlackAmericaWeb.com

The lawyer who represented the woman whose five-year-old daughter was handcuffed by police after she tore up an office and punched adults during a tirade last month said something that could backfire on him.

“The image itself will be seared into people’s minds when you have three police officers bending a child over a table and forcibly handcuffing her,” John Trevena told the St. Petersburg Times recently. “It’s incomprehensible.”

He’s right. It is a disturbing image, seeing the tiny hellion burst into tears as the police slap the cuffs on her –– and elevate a tantrum to the level of criminality.

But the image that is even more disturbing –– and the one that will also be seared into people’s minds –– is the image that unfolded on the videotape long before the police were called. Because in those 30 minutes or so, you get the entire picture of why that child –– and why so many other children –– are so out of control these days.

They’re out of control because too many adults either don’t have the authority, or the will, or the common sense needed to get them under control.

I watched the entire videotape of the incident. What I saw was a little girl who was, in essence, running the show with her horrific behavior. This little girl tore up an entire classroom, broke objects and acted up so badly that she forced the teacher to remove the other children from the class.

Later, in the assistant principal’s office, she climbed up on the table numerous times. And in a show of defiance that would have certainly earned me three or four butt-whippings back in my day, she punched the assistant principal and teacher many, many times.

Yet the adults in charge, because they aren’t allowed to touch students or talk too tough to them, were literally reduced to begging this child to stop. And it was a sad sight to behold.

When the girl breaks an apple on the teacher’s desk, the assistant principal says, “Oh, you broke her apple. That is so sad.” And when the girl hit her, all she could do was put her palms up to deflect her tiny punches.

No child should ever have that kind of power over adults. But this videotape also revealed why the girl was able to get away with that outrageousness.

“I called [the girl’s] mother again,” another woman said. “She said she won’t be able to get here until about 3:15… she gets off at three, and she cannot leave.”

Now it might have been difficult for the girl’s mother, Inga Akins, to leave work. These days, many people work jobs that don’t even allow them to take phone calls. Yet I find it hard to believe that if Akins had told her boss that there was an emergency involving her daughter, he or she wouldn’t have had a problem with her leaving an hour early.

So basically, Akins left it up to the school to find a way to deal with her child. The school officials couldn’t touch her, but they had to find a way to stop her from destroying the school and possibly even hurting herself. So they called the police.

Now Akins, who apparently couldn’t find the will to ask her boss to allow her to leave early to tend to her daughter’s problems, found the will to hire a lawyer to possibly pursue legal action against someone. She also found the time to fly to New York to appear on “A Current Affair,” to talk about it all.

Talk about misplaced priorities.

Now, I’m not saying that schools should begin to resort to calling the police when a child is out of control. And as black people, we should all worry as to whether white teachers and administrators, many of whom tend to overreact to black children, will start to do this as a first, rather than a last, resort. To me, the police didn’t have to handcuff the girl, because she was sitting calmly in her chair by then. Perhaps one of the police officers should have called Akins. Maybe she would have come then.

But it shouldn’t take that kind of a drastic measure to make a parent be a parent. And Akins’ actions afterward are truly worrisome. That’s because by the time this is all over, the girl won’t see her behavior as the problem, but the attempts to get her behavior under control as the problem. She’ll see herself as a victim –– and to an extent, she is. But she’s as much of a victim of her mother’s bad parenting as she is a victim of the school officials’ judgment call.

According to the St. Petersburg Times, Akins recently fired Trevena. I hope that she applies whatever resources she was using to pay him towards hiring a child psychiatrist instead. That’s what she needs.

Because if Akins doesn’t help her daughter work on improving her behavior now, her child’s first encounter with the police won’t be her last.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » May 1st, 2005, 12:51 pm

what if during her 30 minuet tantrum, she picked something up, threw it, and it hit another kid in the head and killed the child? then should they handcuff her?

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by purplecityhello » May 1st, 2005, 1:46 pm

^^^ home we're talking about a 5 year old, they shoulda sat her ass down in the corner - or tossed her in the backseat of squad car and give her a scare ---- handcuffs is ODing

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » May 1st, 2005, 3:08 pm

sitting her down in the corner didnt work. but this isnt about if the punishment was right, it was about if it should be looked at, as a racial thing.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by purplecityhello » May 1st, 2005, 3:11 pm

the area where it happened at is notorious for racist shit homie ----
we all know this wouldnt have happened in a white school

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Cold Bear » May 1st, 2005, 3:13 pm

they would have given her a 'time out' and stern 'talking to'. LOL

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by se11 » May 1st, 2005, 3:14 pm

has a white girl ever done something like that, that gained publicity. you dunno what wuda gone on if it was a white school. to have to evacuate the kids from the class thats pretty serious stuff.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by purplecityhello » May 1st, 2005, 3:17 pm

its a 5 year old ---- I have a 5 year old, trust me when i say no matter how much my lil man wanna wild out there is no call for handcuffs. u can hold down a 5 year old with one hand, our schools are like prisons in the hood home skillet , i doubt youll understand

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Dr Funky » May 1st, 2005, 4:38 pm

No surprise this was Florida. The cops screwed up and the little girl and her family will be getting a lot of money. There was no need for police. She was 5 years old. I don't care if she was throwing a fit. SHE'S 5 YEARS OLD. She is supposed to throw fits. If anything they should have had her parents come and control her. Not the police department. Or put her in some type of punishment room. We had the "stop room" in elementary. Room 114 in middle. And "ISR" in high school. There is no need for police in grade school. Period. Unless a gun is involved but that is VERY rare. Practically never happens.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by WhiteBoy » May 1st, 2005, 5:15 pm

like a little girl can pose imminate threat to who ever they though,,, that school has issues, trying to make little kids grow up way to fast,,, they aren't even physically mature enough to understand anything,, their brains arn't done growing etc.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Dr Funky » May 1st, 2005, 5:18 pm

exactly.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by julialee » May 1st, 2005, 5:58 pm

My point exactly.Its unecessary to handcuff such a young child.I myself would never do that to a child and I wouldnt want that done to my kid.The school should have help in some form in place like most schools do for kids who need it.A Counselor, social worker or school pyschologist knows how to handle behavior problems.
Purples right, 5 yr olds can be controlled in less forceful ways.The girl obviously has problems which need to be dealt with by her Mom and Medical professionals.I wonder if the little girl has had any help in the past since she's done this before.
If a parent were to do something like that to their kid they would be arrested and its considered abuse.
This is not the 1st case like this.I found this one from courttv.com

http://www.courttv.com/people/2004/1216 ... ff_ap.html

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by Anesis » May 1st, 2005, 6:23 pm

Just to clarify - I think the handcuffs were over the top, but I don't think it had anything to do with racism (at this time and point).

Time out rooms are quickly becoming illegal. They had no place to put this little girl because her mother wouldn't/couldn't come and get her (although she sure has plenty of time for interviews and reporters and lawyers). They couldn't keep her in the classroom with the other students and she was continuing to freak out in the office. Mom wasn't coming anytime soon. And they can't touch the child.

Sure, the principal could have restrained the child by holding her down, but then other lawsuits would have taken place. I will never break up a fight at school for that very reason - I am not going to give anyone an excuse to say that I physically hurt a child. After watching a lawsuit in my school district over a cop accidentally breaking a student's arm who was ATTACKING him, I have decided it is too risky to get involved.

What would have happened if, while restaining this child, she accidentally hit her head or broke an arm?

Cold Bear wrote:they would have given her a 'time out' and stern 'talking to'. LOL


No matter who you are, if you hit/kick/bite a teacher, you get in trouble. In most cases, you get put in an alternative school or suspended, and the school presses charges. Charges weren't pressed. I'd say that's pretty damn lucky. I haven't read if she is back in school or not.

And a five year old can cause physical damage when they work themselves up into a rage, especially if the person on the other end is trying not to touch her to avoid a lawsuit. She could have thrown things, knocked people down, gone after other students, etc. That may not have happened in this case, but things have gotten that far in other schools. It was a very real possibilty. Am I defending the decision? Perhaps. There aren't many options left for out of control children at schools nowadays. Do I think they should have handcuffed an obviously terrified child? No.

I still don't think it was even necessary to handcuff her. I think putting her in a cop car would have scared her even more. She might have thought they were actually taking her to jail. The cops should have just sat with her until her mother got there. Plain and simple. No trauma.

purplecityhello wrote:the area where it happened at is notorious for racist shit homie ----
we all know this wouldnt have happened in a white school

I don't know about that area, but getting handcuffed could have happened anywhere to any child that was attacking another person. Unless I see more evidence to point to some wrongdoing, I maintain it was just a stupid mistake. This is serious violent behavior for a five year old - it's not just a normal temper tantrum. For her to be doing this in public is a sign of something seriously wrong. This is an early indication of behavior unless some kind of intervention happens.

Does that mean people shouldn't be alarmed and suspicious, especially if there have been previously allegations of racism? No. But you can't assume it was racism because the little girl was black. Just like that previous post about the diabetic driver - unless there is a real reason to pull the race card out in the open, there is more damage done because people get very emotional over racism. Emotional people generally don't take the time out to learn all the facts of the case. And as I said before, the mother is not suing on basis of race, but because of the handcuffs. If shehad any indication that this was because of skin color, the lawyers would have been all over that.

And as far as developing brains, they aren't done developing until early twenties. At five, she is just starting to develop her own ideas about right and wrong. Someone posted earlier about how this is going to screw up her view of the world - I think she is also going to have a weirded out view of the world if her mother teaches that this is acceptable behavior.
http://www.teachmorelovemore.org/Growin ... tid=21#172
http://www.pbs.org/wholechild/providers/building.html
http://www.thirteen.org/readytolearn/ experts-greene-answers.html

Like I said, I need more proof before I start accusing.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by WhiteBoy » May 1st, 2005, 8:03 pm

shit, at some of the schools i went to the teachers could physically restrain you, hold you down on the floor,
at Epworth in York, they had lock up rooms where they would take your shoes and what ever put you in a little ass room with a little port hole that was covered by the out side by a little peice of cloth,,,, that made me fu--in crazy....
same thing at alpha in omaha, if you acted up the sent you to "time out" and if you still were messing around they would put you in a room and hold the door shut.

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Re: Out of control 5 year old. racial incident?

Unread post by MICK » May 1st, 2005, 10:24 pm

DC wrote:I dont think it has anything to do with race, it has more to do with weak cops who cannot control a five year old. I think these incompetant cops would have done the same to an out of control hispanic or white 5 year old. Seriously they should look for new employment.


THAT IS EXACTLY, WORD FOR WORD WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

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Unread post by Anesis » May 20th, 2005, 5:50 pm

Hate to bring up a dead thread, but my school district was on the news the other day and I thought of this thread.

We had a white honor student (8th grade) moon his friend in the school parking lot. It was a dare. It was public lewdness. The punishment?

He is spending the rest of the school year in in-school suspension and will spend the beginning of his high school year in an alternative school. Many say a little extreme for showing his butt.

And he is a white honor roll kid. Not a black inner-city school kid.

Kids do stupid things no matter what they look like. If they do these stupid things at school, the school has to figure out a punishment. Granted, I am not going to say that racial discrimination doesn't happen at school - I have seen it first hand, but people can't assume that because a student is non-white that he/she got a harsher punishment without knowing details.

The school's comment - we punish the behavior, not the child. Now, whether the punishment fit the crime is another question.

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Unread post by Anesis » May 20th, 2005, 6:14 pm

to my last post - it gets even worse. The kid didn't even moon anyone - it was an ATTEMPTED mooning. That's even what the principal is calling it.

Schools give out stupid consequences to everyone, regardless of color.

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