MINUTEMEN

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 23rd, 2005, 6:46 pm

What do you think about the minutemen and their gameplay at the border?

Unread post by **Tyrant** » July 23rd, 2005, 7:38 pm

they the guys that shoot border hoppers right?

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 24th, 2005, 3:47 pm

Slakcs n a Tshirt wrote:they the guys that shoot border hoppers right?

If they start shooting, they better be ready for what they start with us down here, this ain't the desert in Arizona to say the least.

Unread post by DC » July 24th, 2005, 6:22 pm

Personally I believe they are within there rights to defend there country and its border.

Unread post by **yahyah** » July 24th, 2005, 6:24 pm

CAN YOU EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT THESE MINUTE MEN
http://www.soundclick.com/blksun

Unread post by **shadoworder** » July 24th, 2005, 10:27 pm

lonewolf wrote:What do you think about the minutemen and their gameplay at the border?

They are real American heroes doing what the gutless and corrupt government is supposed to be doing,not just defending the borders,but carrying out the will of the people since the majority of Americans want an end to the illegal invasion.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 24th, 2005, 10:55 pm

shadoworder wrote:
They are real American heroes doing what the gutless and corrupt government is supposed to be doing,not just defending the borders,but carrying out the will of the people since the majority of Americans want an end to the illegal invasion.

Defending the borders from illegal invasion you say?
I call them undocumented immigrants, which have historically been participants in the labor force, which helped and continues to help in creating this country into the great nation that it is today.

I do beleive that many are truly in the beleif that they are helping out, but at the same time they are also creating conflict and anymosity between Americans. For sure, many in the Hispanic community feel that they forment racial conflict, and a better understanding of the problem can be attained under a true educated look into the root causes. Real solutions can be attained without this simplistic view of "lets stop them at the border", cause I tell you right now - straight up - with no doubts about it whatsoever, that this minutemen stuff ain't going to accomplish much other than division and anger between Americans.

Can you imagine what one serious stupid act by either side, be by a minuteman or an undocumented immigrant, could end up causing?

In a time when we should be working towards progress and equality for all in the neighborhood, instead we continue to feed and cultivate an atmosphere of resentment and insecurity. Instead of securing our borders, as you so beleive it is happening, we are in reality alienating our own citizenry with such responses and methods to a problem that has been, to a large extent of our own making.

Unread post by **se11** » July 25th, 2005, 2:01 pm

i could see if illegal mexicans caused problems or something, but they simple run across the border, live in a cheap house in neighborhoods like east LA which are 99.9% mexican and work for $50 a day doing hard labor work. they probably do little crime because if they are arested they go back to mexico. maybe these guys should start shooting at people who are really a problem to the community, rather than illegal mexicans that do nothing out of the ordinary.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 25th, 2005, 2:14 pm

^ ^ ^ ^ There you go, DEPORT ALL THE HATERS & TROUBLEMAKERS.

I still take issue with the term "illegal aliens", this ain't no MIB movie.

We strongly feel that when it comes to Mexicans, the borderline is simply a line drawn on the sand. When it comes to the border states, we feel that we are home, and some war treaty which dispossesed us of our place in this land is itself what is illegal, not our people which toil hard, just like the rest, if not harder.

Unread post by **Sentenza** » July 25th, 2005, 2:22 pm

If its true what is said about the minutemen, then they are a bunch of animals.
Self justice leads nowhere. What if someone does not agree with them and starts shooting them just because he considers them criminal for what they do.
They d cry for the police and start complaining and whining.
What if their ancestors would have been killed for migrating to america?
America (apart from the natives-and even they were immigrants once) consists exclusively of immigrants.
Those guys are fuckin pricks. In my eyes.....

Unread post by **BIG DUSTY LOCO** » July 25th, 2005, 2:27 pm

Watch a "Day Without A Mexican".

Even though it's a comedy/farce...it kind of still has some truth to it.

Minutemen will get shot up quick if they mess with the wrong people, that's all I'm gonna say. They are just as bad as rent-a-cops.

But to all, you should really look at the bigger picture and try to understand what the man is doing. We have a Governor supporting minutemen on the podium...so what you think and how you think he feels about immigrants in general (non-white)???

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 25th, 2005, 3:40 pm

The fool is an immigrant himself that can't even get rid of the thick accent, yet he wants to close the border with California's #1 business trading partner, and he would like to create a separate state border patrol, that would act independent from the federal border patrol. He knows nada about the ties that bond, and he understands the border very little. The man is acting according to the hyped up problems blamed on undocumented immigrants, but fails to stretch out a hand to the community by cutting billions from the schools, and giving big business large incentives to make bigger profits. He helped pass the new work-comp laws that basically puts an injured employee out in the street within 1 year's term with no real compensation or rehabilitation. He is anti-union and pro-large corporations, which basically drive the small & family owned businesses out.
To top it all, he supports the minutemen project, failing to realize just how explosive the issue is down here at the border. I was just down on the southern side this weekend, and the sh*t is ready to explode. La Raza is saying that they ain't going to take no abuse or interference from these people. La Migra down here already knows that there is nothing but brown faces along the border, therefore they act only when for sure, and not just because they assumed. Not to mention the narcotraficantes already putting out a greenlight on these minutemen. San Ysidro/Tijuana "is not" the Arizona desert, this is a whole different environment. The minutemen are packing and so are the Mexicans.

IT IS WRONG MAN, JUST PLAIN WRONG. THEY'RE CREATING CONFLICT, AND THEY SURELY AIN'T STOPPING SH*T FROM COMING ACROSS. IT IS TOO WELL ORGANIZED DOWN HERE, AND THE ONLY FEW THAT CROSS THROUGH THE HILLS NOWADAYS ARE THOSE WITH NO ONE NORTH OF THE FENCE, THE REST DRIVE THRU WITH PERFECTLY GOOD PAPERS.

Unread post by **Tyrant** » July 25th, 2005, 7:58 pm

lonewolf wrote:The fool is an immigrant himself that can't even get rid of the thick accent, yet he wants to close the border with California's #1 business trading partner, and he would like to create a separate state border patrol, that would act independent from the federal border patrol. He knows nada about the ties that bond, and he understands the border very little. The man is acting according to the hyped up problems blamed on undocumented immigrants, but fails to stretch out a hand to the community by cutting billions from the schools, and giving big business large incentives to make bigger profits. He helped pass the new work-comp laws that basically puts an injured employee out in the street within 1 year's term with no real compensation or rehabilitation. He is anti-union and pro-large corporations, which basically drive the small & family owned businesses out.
To top it all, he supports the minutemen project, failing to realize just how explosive the issue is down here at the border. I was just down on the southern side this weekend, and the sh*t is ready to explode. La Raza is saying that they ain't going to take no abuse or interference from these people. La Migra down here already knows that there is nothing but brown faces along the border, therefore they act only when for sure, and not just because they assumed. Not to mention the narcotraficantes already putting out a greenlight on these minutemen. San Ysidro/Tijuana "is not" the Arizona desert, this is a whole different environment. The minutemen are packing and so are the Mexicans.

foo should have a stukc to being a movie star

Unread post by **TheReal** » July 26th, 2005, 11:07 am

lonewolf wrote:The fool is an immigrant himself that can't even get rid of the thick accent, yet he wants to close the border with California's #1 business trading partner, and he would like to create a separate state border patrol, that would act independent from the federal border patrol. He knows nada about the ties that bond, and he understands the border very little. The man is acting according to the hyped up problems blamed on undocumented immigrants, but fails to stretch out a hand to the community by cutting billions from the schools, and giving big business large incentives to make bigger profits. He helped pass the new work-comp laws that basically puts an injured employee out in the street within 1 year's term with no real compensation or rehabilitation. He is anti-union and pro-large corporations, which basically drive the small & family owned businesses out.
To top it all, he supports the minutemen project, failing to realize just how explosive the issue is down here at the border. I was just down on the southern side this weekend, and the sh*t is ready to explode. La Raza is saying that they ain't going to take no abuse or interference from these people. La Migra down here already knows that there is nothing but brown faces along the border, therefore they act only when for sure, and not just because they assumed. Not to mention the narcotraficantes already putting out a greenlight on these minutemen. San Ysidro/Tijuana "is not" the Arizona desert, this is a whole different environment. The minutemen are packing and so are the Mexicans.

IT IS WRONG MAN, JUST PLAIN WRONG. THEY'RE CREATING CONFLICT, AND THEY SURELY AIN'T STOPPING SH*T FROM COMING ACROSS. IT IS TOO WELL ORGANIZED DOWN HERE, AND THE ONLY FEW THAT CROSS THROUGH THE HILLS NOWADAYS ARE THOSE WITH NO ONE NORTH OF THE FENCE, THE REST DRIVE THRU WITH PERFECTLY GOOD PAPERS.

*The way you passionately feel about this issue, is the same way I feel about mexican gang bangers, shooting innocent black civilians...

Not only that, I don't care if the border is sealed or not, because mexicans aren't black folks allies anyway, right?

Unread post by **shadoworder** » July 26th, 2005, 7:11 pm

lonewolf wrote:
shadoworder wrote:
They are real American heroes doing what the gutless and corrupt government is supposed to be doing,not just defending the borders,but carrying out the will of the people since the majority of Americans want an end to the illegal invasion.

Defending the borders from illegal invasion you say?
I call them undocumented immigrants, which have historically been participants in the labor force, which helped and continues to help in creating this country into the great nation that it is today.

I do beleive that many are truly in the beleif that they are helping out, but at the same time they are also creating conflict and anymosity between Americans. For sure, many in the Hispanic community feel that they forment racial conflict, and a better understanding of the problem can be attained under a true educated look into the root causes. Real solutions can be attained without this simplistic view of "lets stop them at the border", cause I tell you right now - straight up - with no doubts about it whatsoever, that this minutemen stuff ain't going to accomplish much other than division and anger between Americans.

Can you imagine what one serious stupid act by either side, be by a minuteman or an undocumented immigrant, could end up causing?

In a time when we should be working towards progress and equality for all in the neighborhood, instead we continue to feed and cultivate an atmosphere of resentment and insecurity. Instead of securing our borders, as you so beleive it is happening, we are in reality alienating our own citizenry with such responses and methods to a problem that has been, to a large extent of our own making.[/quote

"Alienating our citizenry"????you mean citizens who belong to mexican rights organiztion,and who have zero respect for this country.what about all the citizens who dont want them coming in??i guess their opinions dont count,right?and i guess its ok to reward millions of illegales who broke the law?why stop with poor mexicans,lets allow India,Ethiopia,Haiti,and the entire third world to come on in as well!I forgot who said this,but some great man once said(and im paraphrasing slightly) that when a country cant control its borders,its no longer a country.I dont know if you are aware of this,but Mexico is not part of the United states,Mexico has to solve its own problems of corruption and poverty,its not my countrys problem,fault or responsibility to do that.how are they "helping"america by coming here and working at lower wages then native born americans??Americans who cant support a family on minumum wage,and who obviously cant compete with those who will work for 2 dollars an hour.Considering that their are over 9 million people unemployed in the USA why do we need any foriegn labor at all??obviously we dont,The minutemen are at least stepping up and doing what the government lacks the backbone to do,please remember that the overwhelming majority of americans(not just whites)are completely against illegal immigrants,Democracy still has something to do with the will of the people ,right?and since you seem to not care about americas borders,let me hear you advocate that mexico open its borders with guatemala and let that countries poor invade them and see how they like it.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 26th, 2005, 7:22 pm

I've gone into the issue of labor and public services regarding undocumented immigrants in other topics, including the debate with my good ole' buddy "PANIK", for all those who remember that one, lol.

But here is the bottom line how I feel about this border deliniated under the gun barrel and self serving individuals.

This land belongs to "ALL" who work to build it into what it is today, and "among" those are the Mexicans. The U.S. may have won the prior armed battles, but the Mexicans ultimately will win by sheer numbers -no doubt at all about it- without even firing a canon.

Either we are fully and equally incorporated, or we will continue the struggle. The choice is yours, but I truly say unto you, WE WILL NOT BE DEFEATED AND OUR LAND WILL NOT BE DENIED US.

Unread post by **se11** » July 26th, 2005, 11:47 pm

one thing i dont agree with you wolf is the issue of "OUR LAND WILL NOT BE DENIED US." because those SW states are US territory and even though heavily influenced by mexicans, it is still not their property. saying something like that, sounds like you support an invasion of those states which would be terms of war, which i don't think either country needs or wants.

also what do you mean by "Either we are fully and equally incorporated". are you talking about illegals, because then i don't agree. there are plenty of people alredy living in the US legally that need their problems addressed and deserve equality.

illegal immigration is not a problem right now. they aren't really taking away jobs, there not doing crime, and they are not effecting people already living here. one thing that may be an issue down the road however is overpopulation, but thats it.

Unread post by **Cold Bear** » July 27th, 2005, 7:45 am

se11 wrote:one thing i dont agree with you wolf is the issue of "OUR LAND WILL NOT BE DENIED US." because those SW states are US territory and even though heavily influenced by mexicans, it is still not their property. saying something like that, sounds like you support an invasion of those states which would be terms of war, which i don't think either country needs or wants.

Not to be on some shit but that land was taken from the Mexicans... If you ever drove up from Mexico up to LA you see that there is no 'real' division in the land, in the weather, in nothing, the only division is the money and borders put down. Little blue and orange street signs and concrete and 7-11. Nothing changes in the landscape and underneath all that's built, the land is the same. Why you think they call LA occupied mexico?

Unread post by **shadoworder** » July 27th, 2005, 11:01 am

lonewolf wrote:I've gone into the issue of labor and public services regarding undocumented immigrants in other topics, including the debate with my good ole' buddy "PANIK", for all those who remember that one, lol.

But here is the bottom line how I feel about this border deliniated under the gun barrel and self serving individuals.

This land belongs to "ALL" who work to build it into what it is today, and "among" those are the Mexicans. The U.S. may have won the prior armed battles, but the Mexicans ultimately will win by sheer numbers -no doubt at all about it- without even firing a canon.

Either we are fully and equally incorporated, or we will continue the struggle. The choice is yours, but I truly say unto you, WE WILL NOT BE DEFEATED AND OUR LAND WILL NOT BE DENIED US.

Well i guess we will have to wait and see about that.

Unread post by **shadoworder** » July 27th, 2005, 11:18 am

"illegal immigration is not a problem right now. they aren't really taking away jobs, there not doing crime, and they are not effecting people already living here. one thing that may be an issue down the road however is overpopulation, but thats it."

WHAT??thats completely wrong in all counts.It was recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare,also the Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a jaw-dropping $55,000 each.the illegals demand for social services has driven california to bankruptcy.the american media shamefully,like politicians of both parties,is saying next to nothing about this problem,you really have to dig deep to get the real picture
http://www.fairus.org/

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 27th, 2005, 7:06 pm

Q; It was recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens.

Look my man, I know how all that works with locking up tons of people from the lowest scale of society, while the real crooks go unpunished because they now how to work the system and/or they have the money and connections to get off with a slap on the wrist.
A white kid can get caught selling dope to his college friends and it is quietly swept under the rug, while a black kid caught doing the same, would be hogged tied and his college education would be over, unless of course he is a mean linebacker and can bring more money to the school athletics program, otherwise he is history. This is precisely how the reigns of power are kept away from the minorities. Trump up the charges and go heavy handed on anyone not in their social strata.

Q; 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare.

AS far as I know, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO GIVE WELFARE AID TO UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE. But for arguments sake, let just say it is true, could it be to a large degree because that is exactly where they are kept by paying them low wages and denying them the benefits for which they pay into with the taxes deducted from their "illegal" paycheck?

Q; For a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare.

Well many learn the crime here in the American way of life, and a lot of it, is mouth fed by the predatory & discriminatory practices of law enforcement and self-serving big business. Take for instance Wal-Mart, when they hire you and have you fill out all those personal info forms, they also give you an application for Medi-cal instead of employer medical insurance forms.

Q; Center for Immigration Studies estimates, that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a jaw-dropping $55,000 each.

Yet they fail to take into account the profits made by those who employ them and deny them their deserved benefits, and to top it all, the government keeps the collected taxes not claimed for fear of being found out and deported, or collected from fraudulent SSN’s. They also fail to put in the equation, all the property seized from people who are deported and re-po’s by banks (because it is not illegal for an illegal to buy a house or truck). And what about all those low-wages paid? The ones that keep prices low? The prices which allow you to afford more?
Where do all those things play out in the equation?

Q; The illegals demand for social services has driven California to bankruptcy.

I see that you still buy into this simplistic view on California economics.

NAFTA allows for businesses to cross borders, not only does this create unemployment here, but it also puts more and more wealth into the hands of a few and out of the hands of many (business credits and less taxes, put that in the equation). Globalization is the name of the game nowadays. Big Business knows no boundaries, when you pick the phone to call Pac-Bell and you are speaking with a real person –not a machine, you are no longer speaking to an American employee, you are more than likely speaking to a person in India earning $2 a day.

When you get a prescription from a doctor, and then have it filled out at the pharmacy, what does it say? Did they give you the real or generic? Why the switch? And why the high cost for the non-real?

Does it pay to cure cancer? Or are the research labs & drug makers better off by just treating it? Same goes for all types of diseases. It is more profitable to keep the pain going, because there is no money in the cure. In the meantime you foot the bill, and a big one at that.

Ever heard that racial joke? When a driver passes by some road construction and sees 4 white men in hard hats and ties, but only one black man digging.
A lot of big money goes into projects like these that take years to complete (some even decades) at high payroll costs, yet very little work is done on the daily. Not because of the workers, but because of the white-collars and companies hiked up costs.

How is it that when immigrants from all kinds of nations in past times, would build bridges, skyscrapers, railroads and freeways, they got it done quick and stood the test of times? Yet today IT TAKES FOREVER!

What about the insurance sector, how much do you pay into insurances a year? And what do you get in return if you ever file a clain? CANCEL...

Q; The American media shamefully, like politicians of both parties, is saying next to nothing about this problem, you really have to dig deep to get the real picture.

You’re right; YOU REALLY HAVE TO DIG DEEP, TO GET THE REAL PICTURE.

Unread post by **shadoworder** » July 27th, 2005, 11:34 pm

lonewolf wrote:
Q; It was recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens.
Look my man, I know how all that works with locking up tons of people from the lowest scale of society, while the real crooks go unpunished because they now how to work the system and/or they have the money and connections to get off with a slap on the wrist.
A white kid can get caught selling dope to his college friends and it is quietly swept under the rug, while a black kid caught doing the same, would be hogged tied and his college education would be over, unless of course he is a mean linebacker and can bring more money to the school athletics program, otherwise he is history. This is precisely how the reigns of power are kept away from the minorities. Trump up the charges and go heavy handed on anyone not in their social strata.

yeah its all big conspiracy right? so why is it that other minorties like asians and west indians never seem to have those problems??or jews or arabs??or other hispanic groups like cubans??and if the government was really as racist as you imply,why have they allowed america to change so much ethnicaly/racially??why did they change the immigration laws in 1965 so it would favor people from third world nations instead of from europe?whites are going to be a minority in the USA by 2050,why would they allow that to happen if they are really racists?

Q; 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare.
AS far as I know, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO GIVE WELFARE AID TO UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE. But for arguments sake, let just say it is true, could it be to a large degree because that is exactly where they are kept by paying them low wages and denying them the benefits for which they pay into with the taxes deducted from their "illegal" paycheck?

yeah,and if i remember correctly their is also a law put on the books by ronald reagan that would severely punish employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens,so what??if no one is enforcing the law,what good is it?most illegals arent even paying taxes,and im sure you know very,very well that those 3 american dollars an hour thats paid in the USA,goes a lot furthur and buys a lot more in mexico then it does here.

Q; For a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare.
so give you an application for Medi-cal instead of employer medical insurance forms.

im not a fan of big business anymore then you are,so dont expect me to defend walmart,the statistics support what i said.

Q; Center for Immigration Studies estimates, that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a jaw-dropping $55,000 each.
Yet they fail to take into account the profits made by those who employ them and deny them their deserved benefits, and to top it all, the government keeps the collected taxes not claimed for fear of being found out and deported, or collected from fraudulent SSN’s. They also fail to put in the equation, all the property seized from people who are deported and re-po’s by banks (because it is not illegal for an illegal to buy a house or truck). And what about all those low-wages paid? The ones that keep prices low? The prices which allow you to afford more?
Where do all those things play out in the equation?

I think that number takes into account illegals who have kids here(which american taxpayers pay for),as well as those who are in prison,as well as people who lose jobs or cant find jobs because they cant compete with an illegal that will work for 2 dollars an hour.Ill be the first person in line that advocates that employers who knowingly hire illegals should go stright to jail.and when does the government ever deport illegal aliens??or seize their property??are you kidding me?they are allowing them to come in pure and simple,its no accident.you seem to be under the delusion that the government is opposed to their presence,nothing could be furthur from the truth.as i said,and you know very well,those low wages are not so low back in mexico,i dont know off the top of my head the exchange rate for the american dollar versus the mexican peso,but i know it can be stretched very far and buy a whole lot more then it does over here,they are hardly being underpaid.and the only thing it does is lower the wages for everyone and put real americans out of work

Q; The illegals demand for social services has driven California to bankruptcy.
I see that you still buy into this simplistic view on California economics.

NAFTA allows for businesses to cross borders, not only does this create unemployment here, but it also puts more and more wealth into the hands of a few and out of the hands of many (business credits and less taxes, put that in the equation). Globalization is the name of the game nowadays. Big Business knows no boundaries, when you pick the phone to call Pac-Bell and you are speaking with a real person –not a machine, you are no longer speaking to an American employee, you are more than likely speaking to a person in India earning $2 a day.

When you get a prescription from a doctor, and then have it filled out at the pharmacy, what does it say? Did they give you the real or generic? Why the switch? And why the high cost for the non-real?

Does it pay to cure cancer? Or are the research labs & drug makers better off by just treating it? Same goes for all types of diseases. It is more profitable to keep the pain going, because there is no money in the cure. In the meantime you foot the bill, and a big one at that.

Ever heard that racial joke? When a driver passes by some road construction and sees 4 white men in hard hats and ties, but only one black man digging.
A lot of big money goes into projects like these that take years to complete (some even decades) at high payroll costs, yet very little work is done on the daily. Not because of the workers, but because of the white-collars and companies hiked up costs.

How is it that when immigrants from all kinds of nations in past times, would build bridges, skyscrapers, railroads and freeways, they got it done quick and stood the test of times? Yet today IT TAKES FOREVER!

What about the insurance sector, how much do you pay into insurances a year? And what do you get in return if you ever file a clain? CANCEL...

well heres a surprise for you,i actually agree with a lot of what you said here,especially about NAFTA(as well as CAFTA)and globalization and all,but getting rid of borders is a part of that too.and the bankruptcy of california is largely due to the enormous influx of illegals and the strain they put on social services,irregardless of the fact that alot of those services have all kinds of flaws.
l

Q; The American media shamefully, like politicians of both parties, is saying next to nothing about this problem, you really have to dig deep to get the real picture.
You’re right; YOU REALLY HAVE TO DIG DEEP, TO GET THE REAL PICTURE.

exactly!let me throw out the link again
http://www.fairus.org/

Unread post by **jae** » July 28th, 2005, 12:21 pm

shadoworder wrote:"illegal immigration is not a problem right now. they aren't really taking away jobs, there not doing crime, and they are not effecting people already living here. one thing that may be an issue down the road however is overpopulation, but thats it."

WHAT??thats completely wrong in all counts.It was recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare,also the Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the average Mexican illegal alien costs U.S. taxpayers a jaw-dropping $55,000 each.the illegals demand for social services has driven california to bankruptcy.the american media shamefully,like politicians of both parties,is saying next to nothing about this problem,you really have to dig deep to get the real picture
http://www.fairus.org/

Question. Why are "our" jails filled with "illegal citizens" in the first place? lmao... and why are they servicing them welfare? America doesn't give ah rats tail about if they are here or not, trust me. It all comes down to money (politics). The government is saving and making money from these so-called "illegal aliens" being here. They have to pretend to act because people keep on complaining about things that aint got NOTHING to do with them. I say, worry about YOUR OWN life and stop messing around with them latin cats trying to make a living. I will say however, mexicans are about to run california baby,lol.... WELCOME BACK HOME!!

Unread post by **AcmeWhiteBread** » July 29th, 2005, 1:06 pm

The reality is that capitalism requires people on the bottom, or everything would hyper inflate. The other reality is we are moving steadily toreward a one world police state. The state will be raceless, borderless, the middle class of America will be wiped out which will increase the gap between the rich and the poor, cashless so they can track you better, weaponless, to control you better without distinquition to keep a sense of unity, devoid of religeous denomination to avoid conflict and so on. Just read George Orwells " Animal Farm " and "1984". These are good examples of what to expect. And it is elitist's whites that started this ball rolling. You can see how easily troops are duped into doing what their told by the Iraq fiasco. They will turn their guns on you in a second to assure compliance with the New World Order.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 29th, 2005, 9:03 pm

se11 wrote:one thing i dont agree with you wolf is the issue of "OUR LAND WILL NOT BE DENIED US." because those SW states are US territory and even though heavily influenced by mexicans, it is still not their property. saying something like that, sounds like you support an invasion of those states which would be terms of war, which i don't think either country needs or wants.

also what do you mean by "Either we are fully and equally incorporated". are you talking about illegals, because then i don't agree. there are plenty of people alredy living in the US legally that need their problems addressed and deserve equality.

Answer from L’Wolfie

It is not that I support an invasion, it is the fact that I believe with all my heart that just as this land was won from Mexico by an act of arms, it was done in an illegal and unjust manner. History has been obscured and whitewashed with untruths, yet there remains much that is available for one to find how and when the war really began.

But, even if you put that issue behind and accept it as a done deal, the issue of the peace treaty having not been honored in its guarantees made to the Mexican people and its lands, culture, and language, happened to be real points of contention and resentment from our behalf.

Then take a look at it from another perspective of ours, unlike the false assumption made that we want to establish our own country or re-join Mexico, the fact is that we are not blind to the realities of the modern age my friend, and we believe that since we all raced to migrate and populate the southwest, be they Spaniards, Mexicans, Americans, Blacks, Chinese, Filipinos, Japanese, Molokans, Italians, and so many other ethnic groups (of which the Spaniards & Mexicans were amongst the first), and we all continue to have families who migrate to the southwest, then why is it that those that serve a need and have real ties that bond are being denied and excluded from a land to which they have as much right as any immigrant through laws that don't consider in fair light, our roots here?

The U.S. started off in the eastern seaboard, and they brought the Blackmen in chains, they continued their manifest destiny westward dispossessing any and all that stood in their way, war after war they fought, they set their eyes in Texas & California where there "existed already a government in place" (a nation if you will), but that did not stop their expansion, by legal ways or not, and mostly through the use of force.

Rationalize it any which way you want, the fact remains that spoils of war don’t necessarily mean justice was done, and in this case, we feel that we have the right to the land and the right to be here, with documents or not, when we’re welcomed or not, when the harvest is ready or not, when the factories and restrooms need to worked and cleaned or not.

The southwest is also our land, and it will not be denied us. For all this legality talk, well, where was all that legality when the Mexicans were made landless after having been here before the Americans?

Where is the honoring of the peace treaty? Where is the respect for our language in the workplace and in the schools? Where is our right to have laws that are not detrimental to our culture? Where is the right to self determination? Where is the equality in politics and governance?
This and so many other issues as yet unfulfilled and denied to our people as signed by treaty and afterwards discarded. These are the issues which keep us in contention and unsatisfied with how we have been treated.

You’re right, there is many people already here that need attention to their plight, but if they have a right as citizens and residents in this country, so much so and equally our brethren deserve as well.

If a person who journeyed across the seas to make a better living has that right, then more so our people, which were forcefully evicted from their land through the force of arms.

If Mexico and Mexicans have been made a slave economy to the Mighty U.S. Imperial economy, and they are the modern serfs and peons of that economy, laboring under a state of fear and inequality, under the joke of illegality, made slaves to the oppressive greed of an uncaring society.

These modern day slaves need to be freed and emancipated, ‘cause truly I say onto you, this is their land, just as it is anybody else who works in it.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 29th, 2005, 9:14 pm

TheReal wrote: *The way you passionately feel about this issue, is the same way I feel about mexican gang bangers, shooting innocent black civilians...

Not only that, I don't care if the border is sealed or not, because mexicans aren't black folks allies anyway, right?

Answer from L’Wolfie

I hear you loud and clear, but you’re barking up the wrong tree with me with that. And as matter of fact I say to you, yours ain’t free from evil play either. Allies or not is beyond you and me, because we are not players in that game anymore. But allies we can be, in the task of not allowing it to continue within ourselves nor with our offspring. We’re in the same boat ride, and we can either cherish the hate, or savor the freedom from it. We are two very different cultures, have no doubt about it whatsoever, and living next and amongst each other can get real testy, but I dare say that politics beyond our participation play a very real part in our peoples remaining in conflict. Hear me out and grasp my stretched out hand, be blind no more and liberate your mind.

Unread post by **Lonewolf** » July 29th, 2005, 9:40 pm

AcmeWhiteBread wrote:The reality is that capitalism requires people on the bottom, or everything would hyper inflate. The other reality is we are moving steadily toreward a one world police state. The state will be raceless, borderless, the middle class of America will be wiped out which will increase the gap between the rich and the poor, cashless so they can track you better, weaponless, to control you better without distinquition to keep a sense of unity, devoid of religeous denomination to avoid conflict and so on. Just read George Orwells " Animal Farm " and "1984". These are good examples of what to expect. And it is elitist's whites that started this ball rolling. You can see how easily troops are duped into doing what their told by the Iraq fiasco. They will turn their guns on you in a second to assure compliance with the New World Order.

Acme my man, I couldn't agree with you more. You are right on the money with this. Congratulation dear sir, for you see what the masses are blind to.
1. Capitalism requires people at the bottom "always".
2. The New World Order is becoming an "ELITE" reality.
3. Globalization will bring the industrialized world down to meet the third world, and not the other way around.
4. No longer rich & poor countries, the new order will be Super Rich Elite & the masses of the poor, with no middle man. You can see this clearly with Big Business & Giant Corporations, who can compete against them?
They make and brake economies of the world nations. And these Businessmen know no national borders or boundaries.
5. Everyone either already has or will have a number. You are no longer a person, you are now data, just another number on cumputers files. That ego of yours that claims to be someone important, is nothing but number being tracked and categorized. Everything you buy or sell, every penny you make, every trip you take with, and every word you type under that number is being recorded and can be used against you "illegaly".
6. Religion has now enetered a state of which most don't even know what they beleive in anymore, and conveniently science and methodology is being sublimaly inputed into your thinking. As that old movie with Rory Piper was titled "THEY LIVE", so it is becoming true.
7. Just like sheep being lead to a slaughter, many are duped into conformance under the guise of progress and unity.

I FOR ONE PREFER TO HAVE DIFFERENCES AND MANY FLAVORS, AND FREEDOM TO BE HUMAN AND ERR THAN MAKE UP, THAN TO BECOME A PUPPET WITH NO INDIVIDUAL SOUL. LONG LIVE DIVERSTY................

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