Stop and search powers ....

[Michelle]

If you want to leave your opinions in here....

...(for anyone who doesn't know)...it's when Police officers have the power to stop and search you if they suspect you are carrying:

-drugs
-weapons
-stolen property
-items which could be used to commit a crime or damage property.

here's some existing data I found of a website


- Black people were eight times, and Asians were three times more likely, to be stopped and searched than white people

-In June 1998, ethnic minorities accounted for 18% of the male prison population (12%, 3% Asian, and 5% 'other'. Black and Asian prisoners tended to be younger than white. White and Asian prisoners tended to be serving shorter sentences)

-On average black people are six times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people

-Black and ethnic minority people are more likely to be seen by many in the criminal justice system as a criminal; more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested and charged rather than be cautioned by the police; more likely to be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service and face a harsher charge in court; more likely to be refused bail; more likely to go to prison than get a community sentence; more likely to be imprisoned with a longer sentence than a white offender who is convicted of a similar crime; and while in prison, more likely to be subjected to racial abuse and discrimination by prison officers and other inmates.

[sexy365]

Tell me something i don't know.

[wcrockets]

Lol.. I was going to say the same thing.

[wcrockets]

Here's a kind of on topic newsworthy item I saw today:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... in_custody

By JOHN NOLAN, Associated Press Writer

CINCINNATI - A 350-pound black man died after being clubbed repeatedly by police in a videotaped beating that stoked racial tensions in Cincinnati nearly three years after the city was rocked by riots.

The mayor said Monday that the videotape showed that the nightstick-wielding officers were defending themselves.

The cause of Nathaniel Jones' death on Sunday was under investigation. But preliminary autopsy results showed that the 41-year-old man had an enlarged heart, and his blood contained cocaine and PCP, or "angel dust," both of which can cause bizarre or aggressive behavior, Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said.

Black activists said Jones' death was another example of brutality by Cincinnati police. The fatal shooting of an unarmed black man by a white officer in April 2001 set off three nights of rioting.

"How many of our people have to die before the city decides to do something about it?" said Nathaniel Livingston Jr. of the Coalition for a Just Cincinnati.

The videotape from a police cruiser's camera showed two white police officers landing at least a half dozen blows with their nightsticks on Jones and tackling him, while shouting at him to put his hands behind his back. But the tape also showed Jones lunging at one of the officers.

The officers who were at the scene — five whites and one black — were placed on administrative leave, which is standard procedure.

After seeing the video, Mayor Charlie Luken rejected activists' demand that he force Police Chief Thomas Streicher Jr. to resign.

"What I saw was a 400-pound man violently attacking a police officer in a manner that put the lives of police officers at risk," Luken said. "While the investigations will continue, there is nothing on those tapes to suggest that the police did anything wrong."

An employee at a fast-food restaurant had called 911 early Sunday to report that a man had passed out on the grass outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.

The first two officers to arrive, Baron Osterman and James Pike, were shown on the video striking Jones after he was warned to stay back. Jones then lunged at one of the two officers and knocked him down. The officers kept yelling, "Put your hands behind your back!" as they struggled to handcuff him.

They called for an ambulance when Jones appeared to be in distress. He died within minutes of arriving at the hospital, Assistant Chief Richard Janke said.

The Cincinnati chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (news - web sites) called for changes in police use of force.

"If proper procedure means that you can use that kind of force to clobber people repeatedly who are clearly disarmed, then there's something wrong with the policy," said Calvert Smith, chapter president.

Black activist groups staged an economic boycott of Cincinnati after the 2001 shooting of Timothy Thomas, 19, who was wanted on charges of fleeing police. Officer Stephen Roach shot him in a dark alley and was later cleared at trial of criminal charges.

A federal investigation of that shooting, requested by the city, resulted in a 2002 agreement by the city to tighten policies regarding use of force and to improve handling of citizen complaints against the police.

Last February, a white officer chased and fatally shot a black man who was spotted running from a store that had been broken into. Police, prosecutors and a citizen review panel concluded the shooting was justified because the suspect was beating the officer with his nightstick

[sexy365]

NO EXCUSE, WE WANT AN END TO POLICE BRUTALITY.

[Monkeywrench]

NO EXCUSE, WE WANT AN END TO POLICE BRUTALITY.

Sure........and we want an end to stupid people like you,who post things just to get some attention.....

[Michelle]

On the news, months ago. They showed a clip of 3 white police officers handling a young black 16 year old. A man was secretly filming from his window. The youth wasn't even reacting or being agressive to the officers. He was doing as he was told. But then one of the police officers just lept on him, and pushed him on the wall, it looked pretty hard.
The guy wasn't even doing anything, just standing there.

Also a few weeks ago on the news. A black youth was running from the police, I can't remember what for, but according to him, the police car were chasing behind him. Then he gave in,stopped in front of a wall. And they drove straight into him(the whole wall had crashed, in pieces)
The police's excuse was they drove too fast and they couldn't stop.........
...I don't understand these people.
He was also showing his scars...it looked like his skin had been ripped off..

[sexy365]

ALL THE TIME YOU'VE BEEN HERE ALL YOU'VE DONE IS FIND MY REPLY'S AND QUOTE THEM, COME ON THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD THERE ARE TOPICS TO REPLY TO . WHY REPLY TO REPLYS.

[Monkeywrench]

ALL THE TIME YOU'VE BEEN HERE ALL YOU'VE DONE IS FIND MY REPLY'S AND QUOTE THEM, COME ON THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD THERE ARE TOPICS TO REPLY TO . WHY REPLY TO REPLYS.

CAUSE YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND I FIND HUMOR IN CLOWNING YOU.AS DO MANY OTHERS ON HERE...

[Michelle]

oh leave her alone ^^... so far all the posts I've read of yours, you're starting arguemts with her. You've done this, in almost every topic she's replied in.
What is your point?

[Monkeywrench]

oh leave her alone ^^... so far all the posts I've read of yours, you're starting arguemts with her. You've done this, in almost every topic she's replied in.
What is your point?

No point.Just clowning her.She can take up for herself,thank you very much

[sexy365]

THANKS DOPE, IF I'M AN IDIOT FOR STATING MY OPINION, THEN WHAT ARE YOU, FOR STATING YOURS?

[wcrockets]

We need to end the personal arguing here and get back on topic. These are some pretty important topics. Don't you think?

[Monkeywrench]

They are important topics,very much so.I'm trying to be cool but man,S365 is just itching for dissing homie.Some of her posts are so contradictory that it burns me up man! As far as the personal attacks I need to chill.But everytime she wants some,I'll call her out,minus the insults.

[sexy365]

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD RIGHT, WELL WHY CAN'T I POST MY OPINIONS, VIEWS, AND SIDES TO THE TOPICS. EVERYONE HERE FEELS DIFFERENT ABOUT EACH TOPIC.EVERYONE IS GIVEN A CHANCE TO STATE WHAT AND HOW THEY FEEL. I TO DISAGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS PEOPLE SAY. BUT I DON'T THINK THEIR IGNORANT, DUM, STUPID, OR CONTRIDICTING JUST BECAUSE THEY FEEL DIFF. FROM ME. IT'S AMERICA AND EVERYONES FEELINGS, OPINIONS, VIEWS, AND ETC...WILL BE DIFF. AND IF YOU CAN'T GET USE TO THAT. THEN I'LL HAVE TO SAY THAT THIS MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU. IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT I TYPE, THEN LET ME KNOW WHY, LET ME KNOW HOW YOU FEEL, THEN GIVE ME SOME FACTS. WE ALL LEARN SOMETHING NEW EACH DAY. WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM EACH OTHER, OR WE CAN CONTINUS TO RUIN THE MESSAGE BOARD, WASTE SPACE, AND STOP OTHERS FROM ENJOYING THEIR TIME HERE. I CAN READ, REPLY, AND LEARN. BUT, CAN YOU?

[BIG DUSTY LOCO]

Back to topic:

These powers of search & seizure are a joke. They can pretty much do anything with "probable cause". So kids, if your out there doing bad, and you got the kind of luck that attracts the "popo", don't get caught with your pants down. But to the average citizen, it's no big deal...only when they harass you in "injuncted" neighborhoods. Let's just accept the reality of it. If you live in a janky neighborhood, you'll get searched and your stuff will get seized. If you look suspicious and fit the description, you'll get checked. If you are at the wrong place at the wrong time, you'll get pinched.

Now if that doesn't help the kids to stray the right path, then your probably just going to end up in jail anyways...LOL.

I'd advise some of you cats to pick up "The Outlaw's Bible"...it's a little dated to our current situation, but it's a good read on the reality of "rights". I lent my copy out to a friend and he's been clean ever since...LOL...that's a good 10 years!

[wcrockets]

As I'm sure you already know BDL, outlaws who had the nerve to put God's law above man's law wrote the Bible.

But back to your post, you are absolutely right about how it get's played out in real life. Had to add this after I checked out The Outlaw's Bible on the net and it gets only good reviews, however, was 1988 the last release?

Not a bad idea to have some insurance. They sell these prepaid legal plans like http://www.prepaidlegal.com that might be helpful. I know perfectly law abiding guys that don't "look right" that have them so as they can get through life better. It's nice to be able to call up an attorney and ask questions to educate yourself better as well.

[Michelle]

Part of the training of new recruits (in the UK) to enter the Police Force is to go through a race relation programme, to raise awareness e.tc. In a wake up call in response to to a documentary secretly revealing racism in the police force, the Home Office Minister, insists new recruits undergo a different, new training procedure. This is as follows : two written exercises, two tests in numeracy and verbal logical reasoning, four interactive exercises and an interview -Since they were introduced in May, 4.5% of would-be recruits have failed.
Obviously the majority of them can cheat their way through this, but, is it even possible to test for prejudices?

I watched this programme, it was on quite a while back(a few months?) did anyone else from the Uk watch it ? Some very disturbing comments, one vile police officer, bragged about charging an asian man, and letting the white woman off for exactly the same offence, also at one point he was secretly filmed wearing a KKK style hood, and rendering his fantasy of killing an asian recruit in the team.Other police recuits, admitted to stopping asian and blacks rather then whites, but stopping a few whites over the weekend, to even the figures up a bit.
One police officer, when asked if saw a bunch of black guys in a car, ''would he stop them?'' replied,''Yes, I would. At the end of the day, we look after our own''

And to think these are the people that enforce the law, it makes me truly sick.


Apologies for deviation but similarly there have been plans to introduce ID cards in the UK(computerised cards could store a photograph, finger prints and personal information including name and address).
Now, these have won quite a bit of backing from the people here."One of the main reasons, for which these cards could be introduced is to stop illegal immigration, and also another good side to them, they help to prevent terrorism.'' -Notions of those in support of them.

Me personally, I think it's a very bad idea, I believe they're extremely dangerous.We already see black people treated unfairly by police with stop-and-search and singled out by immigration officials at airports.
"Introducing these cards will only add to this and have a bad affect on race relations in this country." It is currently being debated, unlikely to go through, it would take at least 7/10 years for the bill to pass......

[Michelle]

I'd advise some of you cats to pick up "The Outlaw's Bible"...it's a little dated to our current situation, but it's a good read on the reality of "rights". !

A bible? LOL

[wcrockets]

I ordered it today from Amazon.com. You can buy used ones there too. Anytime BDL shares in here it is worth taking note of. Peace.

michelledope, doesn't the UK have cameras all over the neighborhoods already which police monitor around the clock? How saturated are the camera in the UK anyway?

[Michelle]

I don't know about the whole of the UK, but in Lewisham, we have CCTV cameras covering town centres. Operators monitor these cameras 24 hours a day, 7 days a week so if you wanted to report an emergency or er.. suspicious activity you just call them. They work closely with the Metropolitan police to prevent and reduce the crime affecting our borough, and also members of the public who inform the operators of suspicious activity, and give feedback on the system.

Here's a map of CCTV cameras covered in this area. http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/socialcare/cameras.htm

The thing is though, they are areas which are not covered by CCTV, so in the end crime is just moved to the fringes. I believe cameras here don't really deter crime, if you ask the majority over here, they'll tell you the same thing. My overall picture is that CCTV hasn't made much of a difference in reducing crime, although to counter that, they can be effective in identifying culprits, and maybe useful as a deterrant ( although as afformentioned I don't believe it actually is).

But, then again, even if we had round the clock security cameras in operation on every street corner, this is hardly going to drop crime figures in surrounding neighbourhoods. Physical presence, like more police officers covering the street would be much better, in my opinion.
But then this reverts back to increasing friction between the police and residents etc.

I apologise for going off topic...

[wcrockets]

No, thank you for answering the question. The map looks fairly saturated. Governments intruding on their citizens, even in public places, to that degree should be up for debate in my opinion.

[Michelle]

No problem.

This is a good subject for debate anyway. We have a CCTV post just outside our estate, and it hasn't really done much apart from cause problems. I'm not going back on my word, and although I've already acknowledged: more cameras- means safer community, everyone too has the right to privacy, it's not a very nice feeling, walking in your own neighborhood, knowing your every move is being filmed. But I do understand it would just cost too much to get more police up on the streets, so extra CCTV is just a substitute. Even though figures show there hasn't been a decline in crime, with it actually increasing.

[wcrockets]

And congrats. .

[sexy365]

PROBABLE CAUSE IS BULL.

[AcmeWhiteBread]

I wouldnt dare to dispute that cops give blacks a much harder time than whites. Im responding for this reason. Most people in prison put themselves there. You wanna know why? They talk. Yep its that simple, they talk. They lie and get caught, or they think that if they cooperate it might help. Let me tell ya something, when a police officer shows up at your door, or stops you, your only, and I mean only answer should be,
" I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY " repeat that in the mirror 2,000 times.
You are only required to tell them your name and address. Beyond that, shut up. Yes, they might run you in and put you through the loop for 72 hours. But what that compared to serious time? Also, do not ever invite them in the house. You can talk through a window to them, you can leave the door chained. Unless they have a warrent, no entrada!

[sexy365]

I can agree with that!