Nortenos in Southern California?

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MMRbkaRudog
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Unread post by MMRbkaRudog » April 16th, 2007, 9:13 am

pistolslanga wrote:
MMRbkaRudog wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
MMRbkaRudog wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:yo J, you heard of "the brothahood" in santa clara? some norteno was claimin it, that a 14 click?
It might be a Norteno clique. I haven't much about it, except maybe once. Did you bring it up on this forum before?
yea man i lived in SC for awhile, moved from L.A. tho, ay where in san jose you at dawg? im goin to milpitas high, got kicked outta independence tho ya know, but jeah, homie i know there got a grip of foos claiming the brothahood, i aint knowin bout norte shit, ya know, just kick it with a couple folks.

naw i didnt bring it up.
I'm from the ES, & I don't know much about these new gangs either. I also went to Independence & got kicked out, but that was back in 1996. What kind of gangs did you kick it with in LA?

but its coo man, im a youngsta hit me up sometime we can smoke a blunt or somethin haha
Haha, where do you live by?

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Unread post by pistolslanga » April 16th, 2007, 1:41 pm

MMRbkaRudog wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
MMRbkaRudog wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
MMRbkaRudog wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:yo J, you heard of "the brothahood" in santa clara? some norteno was claimin it, that a 14 click?
It might be a Norteno clique. I haven't much about it, except maybe once. Did you bring it up on this forum before?
yea man i lived in SC for awhile, moved from L.A. tho, ay where in san jose you at dawg? im goin to milpitas high, got kicked outta independence tho ya know, but jeah, homie i know there got a grip of foos claiming the brothahood, i aint knowin bout norte shit, ya know, just kick it with a couple folks.

naw i didnt bring it up.
I'm from the ES, & I don't know much about these new gangs either. I also went to Independence & got kicked out, but that was back in 1996. What kind of gangs did you kick it with in LA?

but its coo man, im a youngsta hit me up sometime we can smoke a blunt or somethin haha
Haha, where do you live by?

i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.

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Unread post by ~J~ » April 16th, 2007, 3:11 pm

pistolslanga wrote:
i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.
I know where you live by... near the NorthEastern point of San Jose close to the Target on Landess & S. Victoria. M.C Hammer use to live in one of those Mansions to the NE of you in the Milpitas/Fremont Hills.

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Unread post by pistolslanga » April 16th, 2007, 8:27 pm

~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.
I know where you live by... near the NorthEastern point of San Jose close to the Target on Landess & S. Victoria. M.C Hammer use to live in one of those Mansions to the NE of you in the Milpitas/Fremont Hills.

yea im on landess, you close to meh too?

haha didnt know MC hammer was around there, you talkin bout the hills by milpitas high?

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Unread post by ~J~ » April 16th, 2007, 11:03 pm

pistolslanga wrote:
~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.
I know where you live by... near the NorthEastern point of San Jose close to the Target on Landess & S. Victoria. M.C Hammer use to live in one of those Mansions to the NE of you in the Milpitas/Fremont Hills.

yea im on landess, you close to meh too?

haha didnt know MC hammer was around there, you talkin bout the hills by milpitas high?
I live downtown but I know the area you live in somewhat. MC Hammer is from Oakland but he had a Mansion in the Fremont hills before he went bankrupt, just NE of you. I 'm not sure where he stays at now.

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Unread post by pistolslanga » April 17th, 2007, 1:55 pm

~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.
I know where you live by... near the NorthEastern point of San Jose close to the Target on Landess & S. Victoria. M.C Hammer use to live in one of those Mansions to the NE of you in the Milpitas/Fremont Hills.

yea im on landess, you close to meh too?

haha didnt know MC hammer was around there, you talkin bout the hills by milpitas high?
I live downtown but I know the area you live in somewhat. MC Hammer is from Oakland but he had a Mansion in the Fremont hills before he went bankrupt, just NE of you. I 'm not sure where he stays at now.

oh ahha i go to downtown a lil to drink with a mexican dude i know who works at a hookah spot there

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Unread post by StillNoScript » April 20th, 2007, 10:26 pm

~J~ wrote:Right, Zoot suits came from Black youth on the east coast.
In ways, they did. Research the Central Avenue jazz scene of the 1940s. Also, read "Always Running", by Luis Rodriguez, a former Sureno himself who grew up in Watts and banged in the San Gabriel Valley in the '60s, who talks of Mexicans in L.A., in the early part of the 20th century, adopting the "Black English".
Mexicans have been living in Chicago for many many years, so one would asume some of them have family in SoCal. but it's tough for me to say how much Chicano influence, I'm not from Chicago. I think that Chi-town has always had more of a Black flavor to bangin where has L.A has more of a Chicano flavor. (L.A from the 90's until today, some of the Black flavor of bangin is becoming prevalent in some if not most Surenos)
If anything, L.A. has more of a Mexican flavor of gang banging today than a Chicano flavor. When I say Mexican, I mean Mexican national. You have to consider just how many Surenos, in Los Angeles, today, are Mexicans and first generation Chicanos, born to Mexican parents.

I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

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Unread post by ~J~ » April 20th, 2007, 11:41 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
~J~ wrote:Right, Zoot suits came from Black youth on the east coast.
In ways, they did. Research the Central Avenue jazz scene of the 1940s. Also, read "Always Running", by Luis Rodriguez, a former Sureno himself who grew up in Watts and banged in the San Gabriel Valley in the '60s, who talks of Mexicans in L.A., in the early part of the 20th century, adopting the "Black English".
Mexicans have been living in Chicago for many many years, so one would asume some of them have family in SoCal. but it's tough for me to say how much Chicano influence, I'm not from Chicago. I think that Chi-town has always had more of a Black flavor to bangin where has L.A has more of a Chicano flavor. (L.A from the 90's until today, some of the Black flavor of bangin is becoming prevalent in some if not most Surenos)
If anything, L.A. has more of a Mexican flavor of gang banging today than a Chicano flavor. When I say Mexican, I mean Mexican national. You have to consider just how many Surenos, in Los Angeles, today, are Mexicans and first generation Chicanos, born to Mexican parents.

I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.
Black/Hip-Hop influence is in a lot of the US youth and Nortenos-Surenos are not exempt. It's not alway easy to call the Black influence with regards to Nortenos-Surenos as region-area and individuals can differ. (trust me) yeah, Nortenos youngster tend to be more Black influenced, I'd say. having say that, I still see some Norteno youngster with Ben Davis-Dickies & cut-offs-NikeCortez-apparel belts-white tees. the traditional Norteno appearance-mindset still there for the most part (maybe they throw around a few Black slang words & listen to Rap but still mostly Chicano) San Jo differs from S.F/Oakland-EastBay/Sacramento (I've already touched on that with you) as to where traditional is insisted in some of the Norteno youngsters not that there are none in those areas, I'm assuming? "3rd world Mexican culture"?

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Re: Nortenos

Unread post by ~J~ » April 21st, 2007, 1:06 am

Shaun wrote:
paulie wrote:i heard that the nortenos r starting to come in strong in L.A. Doesne1 from from the LA area know about this?? Also there at war with the crips and bloods.
nortenos are not at war with the bloods and the crips, we're allies with the bloods and crips. i've been to LA a lot in my colors and dont plan on movin there, i got familia that are surenos in that Clanton and MS-13 gang, but i dont plan on movin to LA because of dem, but because i dont wanna live in a city that smells like piss.
Nortenos/Northern Mexicans I believe for the most part have a loose and I mean loose alliance with Bloods-Crips-BGF on the inside/CDC because of common enemies: Surenos/Southern Mexicans-Whites. In the Oakland-S.F area Nortenos & Brothas have rapped on albums together (Black&Brown) so it cool there between them for the most part, I'm assuming? From what I've wrote before... I don't want you to assume that I'm saying Nortenos & Bloods-Crips have a tight alliance, which I assure you is not alway the case even today. like StillNoScript said: Nortenos didn't always get along with Blacks and I conquer. most Nortenos that I knew from my time and even today, there's no love lost there for Bloods-Crips/Blacks and even a dislike but definitely not hate for the most part neither and I may add some Nortenos were-are cool with Brothas. This is San Jo I'm talking about so I know it's different else where with regards to Norteno and Bloods-Crips/Blacks as mentioned in S.F/Oakland area.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 10:28 am

StillNoScript wrote:
~J~ wrote:Right, Zoot suits came from Black youth on the east coast.
In ways, they did. Research the Central Avenue jazz scene of the 1940s. Also, read "Always Running", by Luis Rodriguez, a former Sureno himself who grew up in Watts and banged in the San Gabriel Valley in the '60s, who talks of Mexicans in L.A., in the early part of the 20th century, adopting the "Black English".
If anything, L.A. has more of a Mexican flavor of gang banging today than a Chicano flavor. When I say Mexican, I mean Mexican national. You have to consider just how many Surenos, in Los Angeles, today, are Mexicans and first generation Chicanos, born to Mexican parents.

I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.
Nobody knows for sure but there are a few different theories on zoot suit origins. My personal belief is that it was originated in the black ghettos because there are some who will deny, cover up, rob, distort, and divert TRUTH from those without a voice. But it's also possible that it had been taken from the movie "Gone with the wind" Hollywood 1939. Either way, Chicano gangsters been around before that time so it was a style but not the only style.

One theory of the origins of the zoot suit was that it was imitated from the suit worn by Clark Cable in the movie Gone with the Wind. In fact, some people called them "Gone with the Wind suits." Others say that a big band leader and clothier, Harold C. Fox from Chicago, designed the first zoot suit. He said he copied the fashions of ghetto-dwelling teenagers, and in 1941 made such suits for musicians who wanted an "eye-poppin' style." When Fox died in 1996 at the age of 86, he was buried in a lavender zoot suit. The most believed story is one published in the New York Times in 1943 during the zoot suit riots taking place in Los Angeles, stating that a young African-American busboy from Gainesville, Georgia, placed an order with a tailor for what would be the "first zoot suit on record." Clyde Duncan ordered a suit with a 37-inch-long coat and with pants 26 inches at the knees and 14 inches at the ankle. Once the suit was made, the tailor took his picture and sent it to Men's Apparel Reporter, where the photo was printed.
Image


Yes there are alot of Mexican immigrants who try to be like Chicanos but no the 213 gangster style is NOT from Mexicans from Mexico. BEWARE OF IMITATIONS!

"No Chicano style anymore...anywhere?" You're full of sh-it and I have to say you don't know what you're talking about (or are just hating). End of story.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 10:35 am

StillNoScript wrote:[

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

Damn, that's gasho. If my hood were Surenos, I would take offense to that last comment. :shock:

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Unread post by StillNoScript » April 21st, 2007, 12:40 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

Damn, that's gasho. If my hood were Surenos, I would take offense to that last comment. :shock:
Okay, are you going to tell me that guys tattooing their entire heads and faces, and shooting at anything and everything is more a form of Los Angeles Chicano culture, or 3rd world Mexican/Central American gangland culture?

What's being discussed is Chicano influence. Chicano to me represents a culture independent of both White American culture and old world Mexican culture. It's a culture Mexican Americans, primarily in the SW part of the country, invented. Both Chicano gangs in Southern and Northern California had a Chicano influence for many years. But today, I believe Chicanos up North have more of a Black influence and Chicanos in L.A. have more of a Mexican influence, meaning Mexican National. I don't see the Chicano influence anywhere. Chicano culture is becoming more of a form of nostalgia anymore, limited to oldies radio shows, car shows, etc. I just don't see where it's the primary influence of gang culture, anywhere. ....at least on the streets. Prison is another story.

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Unread post by StillNoScript » April 21st, 2007, 12:43 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

Damn, that's gasho. If my hood were Surenos, I would take offense to that last comment. :shock:
If your hood were Nortenos, would you be offended by the 'Black influence' comment?

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 1:28 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

Damn, that's gasho. If my hood were Surenos, I would take offense to that last comment. :shock:
Okay, are you going to tell me that guys tattooing their entire heads and faces, and shooting at anything and everything is more a form of Los Angeles Chicano culture, or 3rd world Mexican/Central American gangland culture?

What's being discussed is Chicano influence. Chicano to me represents a culture independent of both White American culture and old world Mexican culture. It's a culture Mexican Americans, primarily in the SW part of the country, invented. Both Chicano gangs in Southern and Northern California had a Chicano influence for many years. But today, I believe Chicanos up North have more of a Black influence and Chicanos in L.A. have more of a Mexican influence, meaning Mexican National. I don't see the Chicano influence anywhere. Chicano culture is becoming more of a form of nostalgia anymore, limited to oldies radio shows, car shows, etc. I just don't see where it's the primary influence of gang culture, anywhere. ....at least on the streets. Prison is another story.
Are you saying that Mexicans from Mexico and central Americans have not copied the 213 gangster style? Tattoos have been around forever. Natives were the first to tattoo their entire bodies so that's nothing new. Tattoo tears, crosses on faces and ears, tats on necks, backs, have been part of the Chicano cholo style for decades! Shooting at anything? If that means intentionally shooting at innocents, kids, animals, then you are right about that--you can have that fame. I would like to see the original Mexican gangsters that you say we copied. You made the argument, so now it's time for you to back it up with FACTS. I can't see any Americans glorifying anything from Mexico, expcept maybe the food.

The Chicano style can be found in current hip hop trends but since you probably haven't been in the USA long enough, then you wouldn't know that. So, don't speak on things you know nothing about. The only thing I would agree with is that there are more immigrants TRYING to gangbang....just like in the movie "Born in East LA."

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 1:30 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

/quote]:
If your hood were Nortenos, would you be offended by the 'Black influence' comment?
English class is that way :arrow:

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Unread post by StillNoScript » April 21st, 2007, 1:50 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:Are you saying that Mexicans from Mexico and central Americans have not copied the 213 gangster style?
As far as the gang names? Yes.

As far as the style of representing the varrio? Absolutely not. The violence today in Los Angeles barrios is becoming more and more similar to that of Mexican and Central American drug towns.
Tattoos have been around forever.
Not the entire head and face tattoos, that you're seeing more and more Surenos with. That's as 3rd world as it gets.
Natives were the first to tattoo their entire bodies so that's nothing new.
I'm referring to Chicano culture, not Native American culture. There's a huge difference.
Tattoo tears, crosses on faces and ears, tats on necks, backs, have been part of the Chicano cholo style for decades!
necks, backs, a small cross or tear drop on the face? Yes. But this entire mural covering the head and face? That is not the traditional L.A. style.
Shooting at anything? If that means intentionally shooting at innocents, kids, animals, then you are right about that--you can have that fame.
I'll pass on the fame. Is that what this debate is about to you? But, yes, I do believe that the more violent nature of L.A. varrios at present day has a lot to do with the influx of Mexican and Central American immigrants coming from a 3rd world culture, where drug lords rule the day.
I would like to see the original Mexican gangsters that you say we copied.
Who's 'we'?

And, I don't know what you mean by 'copied'. I never accused anyone of copying anything. You're being defensive, now.
You made the argument, so now it's time for you to back it up with FACTS.
The trends of violence in L.A. varrios today in places like Compton do not need to be backed up with any factual talking points. All one has to do is observe the urban culture of Mexico's drug ridden regions and observe Los Angeles barrio culture more and more resembling it.
I can't see any Americans glorifying anything from Mexico, expcept maybe the food.
I don't know what you mean by 'glorifying'.
The Chicano style can be found in current hip hop trends
For example?

In the early '90s, there certainly was. With Kid Frost, Lighter Shade of Brown, et. al.

Today? "trends"..meaning... nation wide? Please, show me.
but since you probably haven't been in the USA long enough,
I'm a United States born citizen, over 30 years of age.
So, don't speak on things you know nothing about.
I made an observation and stated my beliefs as to the nature of that observation. You want to refute it? Fine. It's just that you're off to a poor start. I can only gather that meaning that I'm pretty close to the truth, and you know it.
The only thing I would agree with is that there are more immigrants TRYING to gangbang....just like in the movie "Born in East LA."
Just off hand, what percentage of active Latino gang members in Los Angeles do you believe are either Mexican born, or are first generation Chicanos (Mexican descent, born in America)?

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Unread post by StillNoScript » April 21st, 2007, 1:53 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

/quote]:
If your hood were Nortenos, would you be offended by the 'Black influence' comment?
English class is that way :arrow:
Does you ad hominem answer my question? Why do you take so much offense to the claim that Surenos are losing their Chicano identity, but have nothing to say about the same claim being made of Nortenos?

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 2:32 pm

StillNoScript wrote:[
As far as the gang names? Yes. As far as the style of representing the varrio? Absolutely not. The violence today in Los Angeles barrios is becoming more and more similar to that of Mexican and Central American drug towns.
Not the entire head and face tattoos, that you're seeing more and more Surenos with. That's as 3rd world as it gets.


I'm referring to Chicano culture, not Native American culture. There's a huge difference.
Tattoo tears, crosses on faces and ears, tats on necks, backs, have been part of the Chicano cholo style for decades!
necks, backs, a small cross or tear drop on the face? Yes. But this entire mural covering the head and face? That is not the traditional L.A. style.
Shooting at anything? If that means intentionally shooting at innocents, kids, animals, then you are right about that--you can have that fame.
I'll pass on the fame. Is that what this debate is about to you? But, yes, I do believe that the more violent nature of L.A. varrios at present day has a lot to do with the influx of Mexican and Central American immigrants coming from a 3rd world culture, where drug lords rule the day.
I would like to see the original Mexican gangsters that you say we copied.
Who's 'we'?

And, I don't know what you mean by 'copied'. I never accused anyone of copying anything. You're being defensive, now.
You made the argument, so now it's time for you to back it up with FACTS.
The trends of violence in L.A. varrios today in places like Compton do not need to be backed up with any factual talking points. All one has to do is observe the urban culture of Mexico's drug ridden regions and observe Los Angeles barrio culture more and more resembling it.
I can't see any Americans glorifying anything from Mexico, expcept maybe the food.
I don't know what you mean by 'glorifying'.
The Chicano style can be found in current hip hop trends
For example?

In the early '90s, there certainly was. With Kid Frost, Lighter Shade of Brown, et. al.

Today? "trends"..meaning... nation wide? Please, show me.
but since you probably haven't been in the USA long enough,
I'm a United States born citizen, over 30 years of age.

I made an observation and stated my beliefs as to the nature of that observation. You want to refute it? Fine. It's just that you're off to a poor start. I can only gather that meaning that I'm pretty close to the truth, and you know it.

Just off hand, what percentage of active Latino gang members in Los Angeles do you believe are either Mexican born, or are first generation Chicanos (Mexican descent, born in America)?[/quote]

I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.[/quote]

I'm off to a poor start? You just refuted your enitre theory by admitting that Mexicans from Mexico and other central Americans have stolen Chicano gang names. Are you also saying that they don't TRY to copy the Cholo look too? Many immigrants come here, dress up, try to act like Chicano gangsters, then put some funky looking twist on things but that don't make it theirs.

Anyway, the Sur and Norte names were originally Chicano and those have blown up all over the world. Again, your theory is refuted.

What city are you from anyway? I have to ask because if you are really from the varrio then you would know which trends today have Chicano influence. It's almost like you don't really know what's going on. You bang?

What percentage of "bangers" today do I believe were born on the USA? I would say "not many." I know authenticity when I see it. I understand that but to dispute all Chicano influence is some bullsh-it.

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Unread post by Rollin_inmy_SixFo » April 21st, 2007, 2:45 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

/quote]:
Does you ad hominem answer my question? Why do you take so much offense to the claim that Surenos are losing their Chicano identity, but have nothing to say about the same claim being made of Nortenos?
I give credit where credit is due. If it's true then I wouldn't have a problem with a statement being made. If it's bull then I'll tell you it's bull. That's all this is.

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Unread post by ~J~ » April 21st, 2007, 5:00 pm

Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote: Nobody knows for sure but there are a few different theories on zoot suit origins. My personal belief is that it was originated in the black ghettos because there are some who will deny, cover up, rob, distort, and divert TRUTH from those without a voice. But it's also possible that it had been taken from the movie "Gone with the wind" Hollywood 1939. Either way, Chicano gangsters been around before that time so it was a style but not the only style.

One theory of the origins of the zoot suit was that it was imitated from the suit worn by Clark Cable in the movie Gone with the Wind. In fact, some people called them "Gone with the Wind suits." Others say that a big band leader and clothier, Harold C. Fox from Chicago, designed the first zoot suit. He said he copied the fashions of ghetto-dwelling teenagers, and in 1941 made such suits for musicians who wanted an "eye-poppin' style." When Fox died in 1996 at the age of 86, he was buried in a lavender zoot suit. The most believed story is one published in the New York Times in 1943 during the zoot suit riots taking place in Los Angeles, stating that a young African-American busboy from Gainesville, Georgia, placed an order with a tailor for what would be the "first zoot suit on record." Clyde Duncan ordered a suit with a 37-inch-long coat and with pants 26 inches at the knees and 14 inches at the ankle. Once the suit was made, the tailor took his picture and sent it to Men's Apparel Reporter, where the photo was printed.
Image


Yes there are alot of Mexican immigrants who try to be like Chicanos but no the 213 gangster style is NOT from Mexicans from Mexico. BEWARE OF IMITATIONS!

"No Chicano style anymore...anywhere?" You're full of sh-it and I have to say you don't know what you're talking about (or are just hating). End of story.
You're right, no one knows for sure. my general statement was only one take on the possible origin of the Zoot/Drape Suit. It appears that the name "Zoot" orginated with the El Paso Pachucos, where as the Blacks in Harlem, orginally called them "Drapes"

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Unread post by ~J~ » April 21st, 2007, 5:52 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.
Why do you insist that there is no Chicano culture left in Nortenos-Surenos? I'm not denying that that statement hold weight, probably a lot of weight with regards to the youngsters. Believe you me... Chicano culture is still there for the most part with some Nortenos and I'm damn sure it's there with some Surenos. If your image is that of a Calo speaking 70's Cholo... then yeah, you're 99% correct. just like the Pachucos... those days of nostalgia are gone. times have changed for the worst.

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 4th, 2007, 3:01 pm

~J~ wrote:Why do you insist that there is no Chicano culture left in Nortenos-Surenos?
I never said there was 'none'. I said that Surenos are becoming more and more influenced by Mexican culture (as opposed to Mexican American "Chicano" culture), and Nortenos are becoming more and more influenced by urban Black hip hop culture.

"Majority" does not mean "all".
Believe you me... Chicano culture is still there for the most part with some Nortenos
Again, would the 'some' you speak of represent the majority?

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Unread post by ~J~ » May 4th, 2007, 3:27 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
Rollin_inmy_SixFo wrote:
StillNoScript wrote:[

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.

Damn, that's gasho. If my hood were Surenos, I would take offense to that last comment. :shock:
If your hood were Nortenos, would you be offended by the 'Black influence' comment?
Most if not all Nortenos I know-knew would probably if not definitely take offense to that comment. (Nortenos from a half generation ago)

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Unread post by ~J~ » May 4th, 2007, 3:57 pm

StillNoScript wrote:
If anything, L.A. has more of a Mexican flavor of gang banging today than a Chicano flavor. When I say Mexican, I mean Mexican national. You have to consider just how many Surenos, in Los Angeles, today, are Mexicans and first generation Chicanos, born to Mexican parents.

*How do you figure? it has alway been a Chicano flavor of banging among Surenos. (though a small amount of Black influence today) I think the rogue behavior some-most Surenos youngsters exhibit is a just a sign of the times, for the worst I might add.

I don't think there is a "Chicano" style, anymore....Anywhere.

*This statememt means all not most. maybe you meant most :?

Nortenos are more Black influenced, and Surenos are more influenced by a 3rd world Mexican culture than a Los Angeles Chicano culture.
*True, I'd say an average so-called Norteno youngster is more Black influenced. A lot of this behavior is exhibited in the wanabee Nortenos. The real Norteno youngster (a dying breed) are as Chicano as most of the Sureno counterparts with little Black influence.

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Unread post by MARTINEZ » May 4th, 2007, 4:10 pm

StillNoScript and ~J~,

Where are you from?

Varrio/hood and city?

Not to dis, but So I can get a flavor of where your coming from.

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Unread post by ~J~ » May 4th, 2007, 5:02 pm

MARTINEZ wrote:StillNoScript and ~J~,

Where are you from?

Varrio/hood and city?

Not to dis, but So I can get a flavor of where your coming from.
No offense taken. you've not replied to me since I asked about most respected Chicano gangs in Los with regards to tradition & stronghold, it's all good though. I'm from NorCal, grew-up in San Jo. my observation is best with regards to Nortenos. I've never been from a varrio but have been an Outsiders looking in my younger days. I know a few neighbor guys that been gone to the pen. my neighborhood has no gangs anymore 5 of which are inactive-gone.

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Unread post by MMRbkaRudog » May 4th, 2007, 10:48 pm

pistolslanga wrote:
~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
~J~ wrote:
pistolslanga wrote:
i live close to morrill middle school, shits like on the borderline of milpitas and san jose.
I know where you live by... near the NorthEastern point of San Jose close to the Target on Landess & S. Victoria. M.C Hammer use to live in one of those Mansions to the NE of you in the Milpitas/Fremont Hills.

yea im on landess, you close to meh too?

haha didnt know MC hammer was around there, you talkin bout the hills by milpitas high?
I live downtown but I know the area you live in somewhat. MC Hammer is from Oakland but he had a Mansion in the Fremont hills before he went bankrupt, just NE of you. I 'm not sure where he stays at now.

oh ahha i go to downtown a lil to drink with a mexican dude i know who works at a hookah spot there
So you drive a car yet youngster?

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Unread post by pistolslanga » May 5th, 2007, 12:21 pm

^ nope, on probation + got caught illegally driving while i was drunk and crashed into another car in L.A.

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Unread post by ~J~ » May 5th, 2007, 2:29 pm

MMRbkaRudog> could you make a list of San Jo Varrios-Norteno-Sureno gangs active/inactive & years started? I curious about this, you being from the ES I'm sure you'd have a better heads up then me with regards to ES gangs. (One either has to have been there or get the info from the Homies as SJPD Gang Division is tight lipped about these statistics.)

I heard about Sur being in San Jo since at least 86' maybe that would be Sur Santos Pride?

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Unread post by MMRbkaRudog » May 5th, 2007, 3:18 pm

~J~ wrote:MMRbkaRudog> could you make a list of San Jo Varrios-Norteno-Sureno gangs active/inactive & years started? I curious about this, you being from the ES I'm sure you'd have a better heads up then me with regards to ES gangs. (One either has to have been there or get the info from the Homies as SJPD Gang Division is tight lipped about these statistics.)

I heard about Sur being in San Jo since at least 86' maybe that would be Sur Santos Pride?
Fuck SJPD gang division! Any ways the list is too much work, especially since I don't know it all & wouldn't want to put out all that info.. I think SSP was here in the 1980's, but Surenos have been here longer than that. Surenos have been here since the 1970's, with some lasting & some not lasting. VST has been here since the 1970's, & for some reason they're some of the ones who lasted. VST over here used to go by Vicky'S Town, untill some real Vicky'S Towners came up from LA to check them.

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Unread post by ~J~ » May 5th, 2007, 11:34 pm

MMRbkaRudog wrote:
~J~ wrote:MMRbkaRudog> could you make a list of San Jo Varrios-Norteno-Sureno gangs active/inactive & years started? I curious about this, you being from the ES I'm sure you'd have a better heads up then me with regards to ES gangs. (One either has to have been there or get the info from the Homies as SJPD Gang Division is tight lipped about these statistics.)

I heard about Sur being in San Jo since at least 86' maybe that would be Sur Santos Pride?
fu-- SJPD gang division! Any ways the list is too much work, especially since I don't know it all & wouldn't want to put out all that info.. I think SSP was here in the 1980's, but Surenos have been here longer than that. Surenos have been here since the 1970's, with some lasting & some not lasting. VST has been here since the 1970's, & for some reason they're some of the ones who lasted. VST over here used to go by Vicky'S Town, untill some real Vicky'S Towners came up from LA to check them.
Yeah, I figure as much. it's like if you don't know... you don't really need to know basis. I can understand that. it's like you need to be careful because you never know who you're talking to. I ask myself why I even care about this stuff? well... what can I say. I guess, I'll take your info as a small sign of confidence from you. "VST over here used to go by Vicky'S Town, untill some real Vicky'S Towners came up from LA to check them." :lol: Them East LA Vicky's Town gangsters are hardcore-dedicated dudes to come up 350 miles to do that. I wondering... are you one of those Victory-Outreach people?

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Unread post by StillNoScript » May 6th, 2007, 2:16 am

J, have you heard of this book?

"Cholo Style", by Reynaldo Berrios, who's the editor of a magazine called "Mi Vida Loca", kind of like Teen Angels. I'm reading it right now. From reading your posts, I can tell this book is right up your alley.

Here's the book,

Amazon.com/

Six Fo, you too. All disagreements aside. You'd probably like this book.


And here's the guy's magazine's homepage, in case you haven't seen it. He's got old school pictures from both Norte and Sur.

http://mividalocamagazine.com/_wsn/page3.html

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