Toughest City in Europe

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Ice » May 9th, 2004, 6:37 pm

compton, watts, etc aint the United States...the United States has a great educational system, kids go to school in most cities, and schools are at a high level in general...go anywhere in eastern europe and you'll see schools without electricity or 10 year old kids smokin or skippin classes in EVERY school in the city... + the system doesnt do sh|t to help them out... you're only talkin about minorities here, in general Americans have good conditions to live if they put a little effort, again thats IN GENERAL, i'm not saying some people in south central arent having it hard, but you gotta look at the big picture if you're gonna compare countries, and that means you gotta include illinois, ohio, pennsylvania, texas, and so on, not only the cali hoods where people dont live well...why do you think so many people from central & eastern europe immigrate to the United States? if they had better education, living standards , and employment why would they leave their country? peace

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by ElGuero » May 11th, 2004, 2:17 pm

The US education system is not up to par with the rest of the industrial world......and the university drop out rate is a lot higher than the graduation rate.

Compton, Watts, Pico Union, etc ARE the USA....and minorities ARE a part of America....... when you look at the poverty rates, and the drop out rates, by percentage minorities have it worse, but by actual numbers white Americans do....In general, you have very wealthy, and very poor areas in every US state.....sure, if you average Jackson Heights and Manhattan, life in NYC sounds alright......or if you look at inner city Houston and the suburbs, sure, its not so bad when you make a statistical average......however, the actual numbers speak much louder.....


WHERE is eastern Europe are you talking about?? Specific examples???

I don't believe you.....I know plenty of people who are from Eastern Europe, including Bulgaria.....and I have had the opportunity to see the Czech Republic and Ukraine for myself.

People immigrate from East Europe for various reasons......some did because of political reasons, others were opportunists, and now a lot are immigrating because they are Jews, or because they are blinded by the hype they hear about the US......

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Ice » May 11th, 2004, 3:17 pm

political reasons dont count anymore homie, oppression is over, as a matter of fact it was over more than 10 years ago, its all about education & jobs now...get your sh|t straight, the US in general is a country with a very good education and good employment rates, so dont give me that "compton, watts is part of the USA" sh|t...yes they are, but they are one small tiny piece of it...

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by ElGuero » May 11th, 2004, 8:45 pm

When I said political reasons, I was referring to those who left during the 1980's and before.....

The US doesn't have a great education system, if it did, it wouldn't be in the condition it is in right now.......So lets forget the ghettos and the barrios and look at other aspects.......In Nevada only 6% of the people have a university degree......in New Mexico and most of the south the drop out rate in highschools is around 50%......

In the Inner cities of Houston, LA, Dallas, NYC, CHicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, there are areas where unemployment is near 75%.......

Now sure......this is not ALL of the US......yeah, Beverly Hills, the Upper East Side, Palm Springs, Bel Air, Brentwood.....those are all parts of the US too......

And sure, nice suburbs are part of the US too......

But then so are poor little towns like Borax, Severe, etc.....too many to name.....

Now look at where more people live.......and you'll see the US isn't all that.......More people live in poverty, or at the poverty level......and the lower class and the lower middle class are the largest part of society.....

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Ice » May 12th, 2004, 11:58 am

how many americans you got leavin the US to go to central & eastern europe for education, jobs, health care or anything like that?

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by ElGuero » May 12th, 2004, 10:33 pm

Except for the Czech republic, east European countries don't allow immigration as such........so Americans really can't immigrate there as such.....Nor anywhere else, other countries have tighter immigration controls.......so your comment is pretty ignorant......

A better question is, how many Americans can even afford to travel to Eastern Europe?

WHo comes to the US? Mostly people who can't get anywhere else..... Australia, Canada, are the number one destinations for Europeans.......while the overall number one country when it comes to numbers of people seeking assylum every year is Iran.....

Open your eyes, there is more to the world than the US........

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Ice » May 13th, 2004, 7:57 am

it's easier to immigrate to any country around the world compared to immigrating to the US...

"there's more to the world than the US" ???????????????

that's what i've been tryin to tell you for the last couple of days , check yourself, you got problems son

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Invincible » May 23rd, 2004, 3:26 am

"In the Inner cities of Houston, LA, Dallas, NYC, CHicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, there are areas where unemployment is near 75%....... "

It's because they don't wanna work. Work is available but they rather sell drugs in those kinds of destructive envioerments.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by zzzz » May 24th, 2004, 10:40 pm

^^^^ Great analysis. Why in the hell wouldn't anybody in the projects wanna work? I hear you get a lot of jobs without a high school education. Maybe even a network executive.

But luckily for some of them with those affirmitive action names, their resume's are bound to land them positions at some of the hottest, run down factories filled with enough back breaking hard labour for all the Shevonte's, Laquisha's, and Lopez's too. Or if they're real lucky, they might even be able to work in the mail room. :shock: A brotha can always dream.

What's that? He might join a gang? Why would he join a gang when he has all this to look forward too??? I'd be jumping for joy if I had the chance to work in the Mail room and still live in the projects, like Mr. Bennet accross the street. Why would you say that? Is it because there's gangs on every corner in his community? Is it because there's drugs on every corner in his community? Is it because he goes to sleep listening to the sickening rhythm of gunshots every night? Is it because, for every success story he's heard, he's seen about 50 more failures? Is it because the people in his neighborhood who recieve the most attention, are criminals? Is it because his school is poor, and underfunded to the point where 5 students are huddled at a desk reading out of the same textbook with missing pages? Is it because the little kids growing up in these neighborhoods bow down to the feet of "rappers" who every day beat it into their ears that living in the ghetto is something to be proud of and endure, instead of overcoming? Is it because so many of the black kids growing up in the projects are lacking in knowledge of self, and think "Black Culture" is somewhere on BET, or lying on the shelf at a retail store for $19.95 plus tax? Is it because so many in the projects have given up and don't care? Damn, why would anyone give up like that? I mean, I can understand giving up on life if your girlfriend who you fell in love with at first site just left you, or if daddy embarrassed you at your sweet sixteen party. But giving up on life because you've come to the conclusion that it's downhill from here on out....I just don't get it. What could be contributing to that 75% unemployment rate? I guess we'll never know. Oh fucck it! What am I saying, they're all just lazy.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by PolakoMafia » May 28th, 2004, 10:07 pm

but I think it's alot harder to get a job in certain Eastern European countries and they pay less. U.S is certanly better why do you see so many people even form other first world countries like Canada coming in but you don't see Americans going out?

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Invincible » May 30th, 2004, 12:14 am

When I first moved to California, I landed in Oakland. The public schools are among the worst and dangerous in the state. The Filipino family next door was fresh off the plane and the 4 kids went through the Oakland PS system, went to UC Berkeley, Stanford, San Jose State, and US Marine Corps!

It always boils down to what values are important to the family. I'm confident that if any of you educated people (like wrockets seems to be for instance) got laid off, declared bankruptcy, sold the house, and took up residence in the worst part of town, your kids will probably do more than fine.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by zzzz » May 30th, 2004, 1:24 am

Invincible wrote:I'm confident that if any of you educated people (like wrockets seems to be for instance) got laid off, declared bankruptcy, sold the house, and took up residence in the worst part of town, your kids will probably do more than fine.
Maybe.... There's a chance that they would turn out fine. But how many "good kids gone bad" stories do we hear? Not just in the ghetto, but everywhere. There's lots of gang members, drug addicts, drug dealers, prostitutes, murderers, and crazy people who have family members who are the opposite of them. It even goes both ways. Lots of people come from some of the worst families, and become successful. There's lots of people who come from racist KKK families who don't grow up to be confederate flag loving klansmen.
It always boils down to what values are important to the family.
I think it all comes down to who/what has the most influence over the individual, and it doesn't always come from the family. Sometimes it's Mad Tyrone from down the street, or the punk rocker dude that paints his face and dresses up in a trench coat, or it might even come from one of the 21st century's favorite baby sitters; Panasonic, SONY, or JVC...people like to downplay the effects that TV has on viewers. But they're fulla $h!t.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Invincible » June 1st, 2004, 12:19 am

I think it all comes down to who/what has the most influence over the individual, and it doesn't always come from the family. Sometimes it's Mad Tyrone from down the street, or the punk rocker dude that paints his face and dresses up in a trench coat, or it might even come from one of the 21st century's favorite baby sitters; Panasonic, SONY, or JVC...people like to downplay the effects that TV has on viewers. But they're fulla $h!t.


So you think middleclass kids (or teens I should say) in the suburbs living a descent life can be influenced by tv and media portraying the gangsta lifetyle as honorable and start commiting murder? I'm not disagreeing with you but statistics don't show this to be true except with cases such as Columbine and some copycat gangs (who don't commit crime generally just act tough).

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by zzzz » June 2nd, 2004, 12:37 am

Invincible wrote: So you think middleclass kids (or teens I should say) in the suburbs living a descent life can be influenced by tv and media portraying the gangsta lifetyle as honorable and start commiting murder? I'm not disagreeing with you but statistics don't show this to be true except with cases such as Columbine and some copycat gangs (who don't commit crime generally just act tough).
Murder? I doubt TV directly causes someone to commit murder. I don't think someone without a criminal history, would just watch something on TV one day, and go out and kill someone. LOL. But if they are infact fascinated by it, that could lead to a problem. Fascination can lead towards participation. Fascination is pretty much like the gasoline, all you need now is for someone or something to strike the match. Which usually comes from their idiot friends.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, TV and media won't directly fuck up someone's head, but it can start them on their way to self destruction. Do you really think the Bloods and Crips would be this popular without TV, music, and Internet? LOL. They probably wouldn't have even made it down to Compton, much less clear to the east coast in New York city and even over seas!! Notice the Norte/Sur are even older than B's and C's but have not recieved the same amount of media attention, and therefor they don't have anywhere near the popularity that the B's and C's have outside of the western United States. Some Mexicans on the eastcoast don't even know there is such thing as 'Chicano Rap'.

I've seen a lot of suburban middle class (and some slightly above middle class, but not quite yet rich) neighborhoods with little white kids claiming crips and bloods. LOL, but they don't shoot at eachother. I think the reason why those kids in the suburbs aren't just going crazy and killing eachother off, is because nobody has really made the ante up and challenged their manhood. They've kept it strictly to cursing, and fist fighting...and maybe even slashing/stabbing. If someone decides to raise the bar and uses a gun to kill, the other will probably retaliate with the same lethal force, and then you have a gang war going on for a longass time. Gang life puts so much emphasis on 'respect', you'll have people doing all kinds of dumb $h!t to prove how 'Hard' they are, or when they feel they have been disrespected.

But before all that happens, their parents would probably ground 'em all, and they wouldn't get that convertible for their sweet 16. :lol: You couldn't do $h!t like that to a kid from the ghetto with nothing to lose. :lol:

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Invincible » June 2nd, 2004, 3:43 am

But before all that happens, their parents would probably ground 'em all, and they wouldn't get that convertible for their sweet 16. You couldn't do $h!t like that to a kid from the ghetto with nothing to lose.
ANd what prevents parents in the ghetto from doing that as alot of them start out young and aren't even that rebellious yet, but the parents either don't do anything or pretend nothing is happening. Plus alot fo the families in the ghetto can't afford to move out so they could tell the kid to hit the road if he associates with a gang or use other methods to scare him away from them.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Invincible » June 6th, 2004, 11:13 pm


Anonymous20

Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Anonymous20 » June 21st, 2004, 10:50 am

Damn if there's one extremely war-traumatised city in eastern europe, called brcko (yes thats how you spell it!) which is located in bosnia. I've got people in my neighborhood who come from that place and over there its as if the war there hasn't ended amongst moslims and croats.

If I'd have to choose a bad city in western europeit would have to be a few neighborhoods in Glasgow. It's not particurly the violence but more the living standards there. We got friends who live in some shitty hood (forget the name) which has this unbelievably ''cold'' and cruel atmosphere.

Well nothing much else to say, except that I noticed someone replied on page 3 of this topic saying that Amsterdam is ''okay'' or something well I'mma tell you this: WEST Amsterdam sucks, NORTH amsterdam is the ''ghetto'' of amsterdam, and the worst is the Bijlmer in south-east Amsterdam, whenever me and my family visit my aunt in the Bijlmer its as if you're in a foreign country. 75% percent is Black in that nieghborhood, and for a small country like the netherlands that aint normal to have 3 quarters of a hood totally black.

Oh yeah as Valsta_loco said Marseille is bad too,I've seen North-Marseille, and it matches the exact same looks as a ghetto in America, for real. Still the toughest city would be brcko in bosnia to my opinion.....

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Staxman » July 9th, 2004, 1:10 pm

the toughest city in europe is in my opinion berlin, exspecaly a part of berlin called wedding. there are streets in wich the police dont go without special police support ( these special police groups are the same like swat squads in the usa ).
hard place
cya

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by ALGERIAN souljah » July 10th, 2004, 11:10 am

I think the toughest city is Vénissieux, vaulx en velin ( surburb of lyon) and Sarcelles north of Paris, soutshide paris , Hoods of Manchester London and Leeds are hard too

In my hood we have a lot of thugs, gunfights, and we have terrorists.. these guys are crazy ahahhan the cut heads and do shit like that ..

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by sniff » July 25th, 2004, 7:35 am

ElGuero wrote:It depends what your criteria is.....

If it comes to things like street gangs, the chance of getting jacked or killed on the street.......Its going to be Western Europe. Places like Paris, Hamburg, Leipzig, Rotterdam.....where you get a lot of the Arab-Kurdish-Turkish gangs.....plus a lot of Skinhead activity, as well as Anarchist gangs that fight the Skinheads regularly.

If you mean things like getting robbed, scammed.....then its eastern Europe.....Bucharest and Sofia probably the capitals of this stuff......but also Athens....Istanbul....

If you mean organized crime, then you're looking at Moscow, St. Petersburg, Istanbul, and Palermo.....


If you mean drunk hooligans, soccer fan fights, or just fighting drunks.....then its any city in the UK and Ireland.....


But in all, its very different from the US......
Well put...IMO Russia is probably the worse. You either
A) Join the army and probably die in combat or related cirumstances
B) Get a job (good fuckin luck)
C) Shift heroin

I really aint jokin, you do one of the three...Fucked up country.

Ireland generally is a dodgy place to live. You go into the wrong pub and your askin for serious beatings. Lots of drive by shootins in Ireland when my dad stayed there.

the UK in general is well known for drunken brawls in "the town" on friday, saturdays. Lots of fightin with the local police. You know those video phone things? I saw this kiddie called Stoner fuckin nut this cop, lots of shit like that. For ACTUAL gang culture, i'd sat US. Some crazy fuckin shit.

I saw this documentry about Watts and the police tryin to "protect them". The police appeared to be the most stubborn ass holes ever. "We're bust em for litering, j-walkin whatever we can take them in for".

The thing that stuck in my mind was when they stopped and talked to these 18 yos on some crossroad. They questioned them, they didnt look like g's. The next scene is a police car flyin down the road and someone on the radio "officer down, officer down request back-up". The cameraman arrives and you see these two fuckin gang bangers who getting questioned in the last scene. They looked fuckin harmless...str8 people but nah these people approached the coppers and said "where u from" and shot this pig point blank with a shawn off. You see the kid on the floor with a bullet in his head and his mate cuffed up..Seriously fucked up. The presenter said some places in LA compare to 3rd world countries.

Where the fuck is YOUR goverment?!

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by londonpride » July 25th, 2004, 3:54 pm

Snff you ignorant prick.Ever been to mosside,brixton,peckham,toxteth,hackney.,st.paulshansworth,aston,.MUG.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by S-Rot40 » July 25th, 2004, 5:22 pm

londonpride wrote:Snff you ignorant prick.Ever been to mosside,brixton,peckham,toxteth,hackney.,st.paulshansworth,aston,.MUG.
brixton aint no joke! i often been there since i got family livin in brixton...

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Boris » July 26th, 2004, 3:51 am

Brixton's getting a lot better in my opinion. I think a lot of its rep comes from the riots, whereas now its becoming quite a fashionable and popular part of London. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt like my girlfriend walking round Coldharbour Lane on her own at night lol, but I wouldnt say its the toughest place in Europe.

Same with Hackney, loads of business men/women are moving there now as its easy to get into the city.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by S-Rot40 » July 26th, 2004, 4:15 am

i see i didnt know. last time i been there to visit the family was 4 or 5 years ago...

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Boris » July 26th, 2004, 4:30 am

My vote for toughest city in Europe would be Belfast. I used to know someone who was from the Shankhill Rd estate, and some of the stories he told me were just dark.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by londonpride » July 28th, 2004, 12:13 am

I hear what ya saying about brixton,a lot of shite been pushed out to other ares in lambeth, i know norwood is bad news all the overflow from brixton.Brixton though still is very bad news no matter what is happening in regards to yuppies and property prices still maily black area.

Personally i fing lewisham,peckham,newcross more gang orientatted and frightening than brixton on the surface,just all high rise housing estates.But brixton is still more deadly.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Pepito_That_Ese » August 6th, 2004, 5:13 am

IMO Paris got crazy hoods, along with Marseille & Lyon. I heard Dublin was hard too. And most of the Eastern Europe is like the 3rd world, shit is crazy right there, nothin we can compare to the Western Europe.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Noog » August 6th, 2004, 8:26 am

Why you all obsessed with what the toughest city in Europe is....maybe you mean the city which has been run down the most, has the most unemployment, lack of social justice, poverty, crime n so on. Every city has its tough parts. I live in Hackney. Its a patchwork borough. Nice Victorian houses mixed in with ghetto estates. Crack house city, jack central, the block. But it can be beautiful on a sunny day chillin in London Fields with a fat zoot n a beer, all cares can drift away. Toughest city - some say Hackney, some Brixton, some Peckham, some Moss Side, some Belfast, some outside Paris and on and on? I dont care - all these places and more are just suffering cos so many people have dirt. I just care that boys n girls round my ends get decent housing, training, jobs and a hope and a future n stay away from our growing gang problems with better alternatives. Peace.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by SpacerLoco » August 8th, 2004, 2:04 pm

Walk through the falls Road in Belfast in a Rangers shirt or a Celtic one down the Shankill & you won't get out alive.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Holmlund » September 11th, 2004, 1:59 pm

Yeah! Thats true.. You will get checked as soon as you enter some most "working class" areas in Belfast and if you are from the wrong side of the fence.. then you wont make it out... Its a segregated city (with few exceptions) and people just dont go were they dont belong which means that you have to know where you are at all times.. Luckily its not that hard, just read the walls, the flags on the lightposts and the colour of the pavingstones.. =)

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Bumpy Knuckles » October 26th, 2004, 2:23 pm

worst cities in europe (western), got's to be marseille, or poor cities in southern italy like napoli.

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Re: Toughest City in Europe

Unread post by Noog » October 29th, 2004, 9:17 am

Man, this thread is so effin boring, get me! Cummon people, say something more interseting than 'this city is er, hard' 'no this other city is harder'! Got nothing intereseting to say? Go get an education. Go think about the issues. It comes accross like many of you are wanting to compete 'bout whci city/.area is the toughest! The whole poor world is a ghetto blood! Every place which is materially deprived will have suffering and maybe gangs etc. What are you all saying?

I threw in a thread, but it wasn't picked up - straight back to the bull... Ach well....I mean its coming across like you lot would actively welcome LA style gang stuff in Europe.....news for you all...it aint like that here....we suffer if we poor just like the poor in LA, but its culturally very different. Dont glamourize LA, those boys die like flies out there cos of a lack of justice, jobs, decent housing, employment and beacause their government doent give a damn about any people from the inner cities.

Cummon peeps, get creative, use yer grey matter. Peace

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