Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Mexico and El Salvador has received the most international recognition for street gang development as a result of US deportation, but other countries in South & Central America & the Caribbean including Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Domincan Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, French Guiana, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti [d'Haïti], Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico [Estados Unidos Mexicanos], Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru [Perú], Puerto Rico, Suriname, Uruguay, Venenzuela and many other islands in the Caribbean.
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Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by thewestside » June 24th, 2010, 9:44 pm

Mass grave in Taxco, Mexico, is largest discovered in violent drug wars
By William Booth
Thursday, June 24, 2010


TAXCO, MEXICO -- Many times, the victims in Mexico's drug war simply disappear. Just a few miles outside this quaint tourist town filled with silver jewelry shops, Mexican authorities discovered where some ended up.

For months, maybe for years, feuding drug mafias have unloaded their bound-and-gagged victims from pickup trucks and car trunks and thrown them down a deep, dark hole. It is one of the most macabre spectacles in a drug war that each week brings news of greater barbarities.

For the past year, locals here reported rumors of strange vehicles on the road at night. And in May, the Mexican military arrested some gunmen who revealed under pressure the existence of a mass grave, which is the largest ever found in Mexico.

It does not look like much from the surface. A simple concrete-block building, tagged with a crawl of graffiti, covers the entrance to a ventilation shaft designed to feed air into nearby silver mines. The mines have been closed for three years by striking workers demanding better pay from the owner, one of the biggest corporations in Mexico.

State investigators rappelled down the 15-foot-wide shaft through darkness to reach the bottom, 50 stories down, where they found a cold, dripping-wet cavern filled with noxious gases. As they panned their headlamps around the cave, they found a subterranean killing field. Initially, they thought there were 25 dead, then 55. But as they struggle to reassemble the bodies at the morgue in the capital city, they think they have found the remains of 64 people.

"It was like a quicksand, but filled with bodies," said Luis Rivera, a young chief criminologist, who was one of the first to descend into the mine.

"We were stepping on them," Rivera said. "It was a very challenging working environment."

The recovery of the remains took five days, and the work of identifying the dead has just begun, a task made more difficult by the fact that some cadavers were mummified, others were dismembered by the fall and at least four of the victims had been decapitated.

"There are headless bodies, but some of the heads don't match the bodies," Rivera said.

Based on examinations of wounds, investigators said it also appears that many of the victims were alive when they were thrown down the mine shaft.

A few might even have survived the fall before they succumbed to injuries.

Medical examiners have identified only eight bodies so far. One was Daniel Bravo Mota, a Guerrero state prison director who had gone missing in late May.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05176.html

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 25th, 2010, 9:27 pm

Mine turned into bottomless pit of death
June 25, 2010 by Capo · 1 Comment



- Hundreds of feet deep, this ventilation shaft at a mine outside of Taxco, about 100 miles southwest of Mexico City in Guerrero state, was the last thing many drug gang victims ever saw. -
Mexican drug-war victims thrown into 600-foot shaft alive, police say

TAXCO, Mexico – One of the nastier chapters of Mexico’s gangster wars now haunts this beguiling colonial city long known for its silversmiths and tourist throngs.

Investigators have pulled 56 corpses and four heads from the 600-foot-deep mine shaft on the edge of this town, nestled in the verdant mountains 110 miles south of Mexico City.

Many of the victims were dumped into the slanted chute while still alive and aware.

“The rocks in the shaft are sharp-edged and tore at the bodies,” Luis Rivera, 23, Guerrero state’s senior criminologist in Taxco, said in explaining the feet, hands and legs torn from some victims. “There were some who arrived alive at the bottom.”

Only eight of the badly decomposed bodies have been identified so far, including that of a prison warden kidnapped in late May. But police say all the victims were killed by the henchmen of a Texas-born gangster, Edgar Valdez, who is warring for control of one of Mexico’s largest drug-trafficking organizations.

Not long ago, such a gruesome discovery would have been headline news for weeks in Mexico. But the atrocities linked to the country’s gangland wars come too fast these days for any to draw notice for long.

Shootouts no longer shock. Beheadings have become boring and massacres mundane. Unearthed narco-graves — the clandestine mass tombs where many drug war victims lie – now serve merely as mileposts.

More than 400 people this year have been killed gangland style in Guerrero state, which includes Taxco, as Valdez’s group fights with his rivals for smuggling routes and local markets. Amid that fighting, men have been disappearing by the dozens in Taxco and surrounding towns.

‘Count the heads’
There were rumors that some of those who vanished had been dumped down the ventilation tunnel of the mine, which like most others nearby has been closed for three years by a labor strike.

The vent sits alongside a badly rutted road that overlooks a valley of grazing livestock and farm fields a few miles from town. A 465-year-old hacienda, which was the first silver processing plant in Mexico and now hosts a New Age wellness retreat, sits half a mile away.

Precisely to keep people from falling into the shaft, the mining company years ago had it enclosed by tall cinder- block walls topped with closely spaced iron beams. But someone had removed some of the blocks, leaving a small breach in one wall.

People used to throw trash and sometimes dead animals into the pit through that gap, one local resident said. Gangsters dispatched their victims the same way.

Investigators had responded to past rumors by searching the upper reaches of the vent, finding nothing. They were sent in again on May 29 after captured gangsters told army interrogators that they recently had dumped three men into the hole.

Rivera, the state criminologist, got the call before dawn that Saturday morning. He sent an underling into the mine, who called by late morning to report there were “many bodies” in a large pit at the foot of the shaft.

The number of victims wasn’t easy to calculate, the man told Rivera, because there also were many unattached limbs.
“I told him to count the heads,” Rivera said in a hushed voice. “I knew I would have a lot of work.”

Rivera informed his superiors of the discovery and was told to retrieve the mangled remains by any means necessary, despite a lack of proper rescue equipment. Rounding up local firefighters and police officers for the task, Rivera reluctantly decided he had to go down into the mine himself.

Climbing into his office’s single disposable biohazard suit, Rivera descended on a rusted ladder for the first 11 yards or so, then rappelled the rest of the way down.

Once on the bottom, Rivera said, he stumbled over something and stepped into a tangled heap of decaying flesh. It felt like quicksand, he said, the dead floating in a thickened broth of water and the fluids from their decomposing remains.

Bodies stacked deep
Rivera had assumed the pit was no more than a foot or two deep. But when he tried to gauge it with a 5-foot board, he couldn’t touch bottom. The team then realized that the floating bodies were stacked several deep. As one was pulled out, another would surface.

Working in the dank, dark cavern, Rivera and the other men began pulling bodies from the pit. They lifted the victims in their arms, wrapped them in burlap sacks and looped ropes around them. Others at the surface pulled the bodies up by hand.

The crews managed to retrieve only four victims in the first 24 hours. It took six days to remove them all.

Rivera said that scabs on some of the bodies suggested their hearts were still beating when they were plunged into the mine’s maw, the rocks and jutting metal bars biting into them like fangs.

“Many were thrown in alive,” the criminologist said.
People have been coming to Rivera’s office and to morgues all month, searching for family members who have gone missing. They bring face shots, descriptions of tattoos and birthmarks, lists of clothes the missing were wearing when last seen.

Many to remain nameless
Investigators positively identified one of the men by a leg that bore a tattoo of the Virgin of Guadalupe and another proclaiming “Made in Mexico.” Another reclaimed his name because “Rosa” was inked into his chest.

But most of the bodies are decayed almost beyond recognition as human. A few had become mummified, Rivera said. The cold and humid conditions of the mine – and its lack of insects and foraging wild animals – make establishing any time of death difficult, he said.

So Rivera can offer little hope to most of the searching relatives. But he’ll keep trying.

“These might have been bad people,” Rivera said of the victims. “But their families are not at fault. They need to know.”

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 25th, 2010, 9:34 pm

I dont get the shear amount of violence -why is it being done who is doing it-when it started ,why it started -whos involved..................thousands dead ? it seems ridicolous! Killings in Cancun -seems too far away for it( cancun) to be a factor in the drug war. I lived in Cancun at one point and can tell you it was the most safest place Ive ever known. The worst neighborhoods didnt hold a flame to the streets of LA. The bloodletting just seems incomprehensible their cant possible be that much money being a courier for drugs -when Columbia is actually where its all produced. Mexicans are just a courier to cocaine. Hwo does one become a cartel member-is their a initiation requirement or has it turned into a free for all like LA gangs? it seems like alot of this violence is a result of the mass deportations of American criminals into the Mexican enviroment. Can anyone with good information shed light on the subject ? it just seems really convoluted and senseless is their even a rythm to the mayhem? How would one even know whom is a ZETA or FAMILIANO ....as alot of the players seem like everyday cholos in their attires and tattoos.....someone break it down.

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 25th, 2010, 9:44 pm

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/8 ... 81232.html





DONT KNOW IF THIS IS REAL BUT ITS INSANITY WHATS GOING ON OVER THERE.

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mnjmc » June 26th, 2010, 10:51 pm

mayugastank wrote:I dont get the shear amount of violence -why is it being done who is doing it-when it started ,why it started -whos involved..................thousands dead ? it seems ridicolous! Killings in Cancun -seems too far away for it( cancun) to be a factor in the drug war. I lived in Cancun at one point and can tell you it was the most safest place Ive ever known. The worst neighborhoods didnt hold a flame to the streets of LA. The bloodletting just seems incomprehensible their cant possible be that much money being a courier for drugs -when Columbia is actually where its all produced. Mexicans are just a courier to cocaine. Hwo does one become a cartel member-is their a initiation requirement or has it turned into a free for all like LA gangs? it seems like alot of this violence is a result of the mass deportations of American criminals into the Mexican enviroment. Can anyone with good information shed light on the subject ? it just seems really convoluted and senseless is their even a rythm to the mayhem? How would one even know whom is a ZETA or FAMILIANO ....as alot of the players seem like everyday cholos in their attires and tattoos.....someone break it down.

I thought you had it all figured out? But to answer your question shortly the violence is due to Sinaloa's greed and the Zetas insurgency tactics. Zetas recruit heavily from Central America, they tend to have a lot Mara gang members.

As too how can you tell them a part, a lot of times they mark their own clothes and vehicles.
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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by youngspade » June 26th, 2010, 11:11 pm

mnjmc wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I dont get the shear amount of violence -why is it being done who is doing it-when it started ,why it started -whos involved..................thousands dead ? it seems ridicolous! Killings in Cancun -seems too far away for it( cancun) to be a factor in the drug war. I lived in Cancun at one point and can tell you it was the most safest place Ive ever known. The worst neighborhoods didnt hold a flame to the streets of LA. The bloodletting just seems incomprehensible their cant possible be that much money being a courier for drugs -when Columbia is actually where its all produced. Mexicans are just a courier to cocaine. Hwo does one become a cartel member-is their a initiation requirement or has it turned into a free for all like LA gangs? it seems like alot of this violence is a result of the mass deportations of American criminals into the Mexican enviroment. Can anyone with good information shed light on the subject ? it just seems really convoluted and senseless is their even a rythm to the mayhem? How would one even know whom is a ZETA or FAMILIANO ....as alot of the players seem like everyday cholos in their attires and tattoos.....someone break it down.

I thought you had it all figured out? But to answer your question shortly the violence is due to Sinaloa's greed and the Zetas insurgency tactics. Zetas recruit heavily from Central America, they tend to have a lot Mara gang members.

As too how can you tell them a part, a lot of times they mark their own clothes and vehicles.

Good post.

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 26th, 2010, 11:23 pm

mnjmc wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I dont get the shear amount of violence -why is it being done who is doing it-when it started ,why it started -whos involved..................thousands dead ? it seems ridicolous! Killings in Cancun -seems too far away for it( cancun) to be a factor in the drug war. I lived in Cancun at one point and can tell you it was the most safest place Ive ever known. The worst neighborhoods didnt hold a flame to the streets of LA. The bloodletting just seems incomprehensible their cant possible be that much money being a courier for drugs -when Columbia is actually where its all produced. Mexicans are just a courier to cocaine. Hwo does one become a cartel member-is their a initiation requirement or has it turned into a free for all like LA gangs? it seems like alot of this violence is a result of the mass deportations of American criminals into the Mexican enviroment. Can anyone with good information shed light on the subject ? it just seems really convoluted and senseless is their even a rythm to the mayhem? How would one even know whom is a ZETA or FAMILIANO ....as alot of the players seem like everyday cholos in their attires and tattoos.....someone break it down.

I thought you had it all figured out? But to answer your question shortly the violence is due to Sinaloa's greed and the Zetas insurgency tactics. Zetas recruit heavily from Central America, they tend to have a lot Mara gang members.
As too how can you tell them a part, a lot of times they mark their own clothes and vehicles.

DIDNT you say that chicanos didnt hold much sway in the drug war? MS is definetly a chicano influenced gang. Also how do they use MS -but still call themselves ZETAS -I never claimed to know anything about the drug war in Mexico. I merely stated that it was obvious that chicano gangs were responsible for many of the killings and deaths-it was never written in stone. The situation exploded it seems like in the last 5 years. Where did you get that they use MS? any articles....is their an initation ritual for getting into these cartels or are they lossely affiliated like the colombians were during their heyday....I dont get why these guys are doing the cartels dirty work why wouldnt they just blast them and take over....so basically its the Aztecas and Texas Syndicate versus MS and who else? I havent been able to find a real answer anywhere

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mnjmc » June 27th, 2010, 1:10 am

mayugastank wrote:
mnjmc wrote:
mayugastank wrote:I dont get the shear amount of violence -why is it being done who is doing it-when it started ,why it started -whos involved..................thousands dead ? it seems ridicolous! Killings in Cancun -seems too far away for it( cancun) to be a factor in the drug war. I lived in Cancun at one point and can tell you it was the most safest place Ive ever known. The worst neighborhoods didnt hold a flame to the streets of LA. The bloodletting just seems incomprehensible their cant possible be that much money being a courier for drugs -when Columbia is actually where its all produced. Mexicans are just a courier to cocaine. Hwo does one become a cartel member-is their a initiation requirement or has it turned into a free for all like LA gangs? it seems like alot of this violence is a result of the mass deportations of American criminals into the Mexican enviroment. Can anyone with good information shed light on the subject ? it just seems really convoluted and senseless is their even a rythm to the mayhem? How would one even know whom is a ZETA or FAMILIANO ....as alot of the players seem like everyday cholos in their attires and tattoos.....someone break it down.

I thought you had it all figured out? But to answer your question shortly the violence is due to Sinaloa's greed and the Zetas insurgency tactics. Zetas recruit heavily from Central America, they tend to have a lot Mara gang members.
As too how can you tell them a part, a lot of times they mark their own clothes and vehicles.

DIDNT you say that chicanos didnt hold much sway in the drug war? MS is definetly a chicano influenced gang. Also how do they use MS -but still call themselves ZETAS -I never claimed to know anything about the drug war in Mexico. I merely stated that it was obvious that chicano gangs were responsible for many of the killings and deaths-it was never written in stone. The situation exploded it seems like in the last 5 years. Where did you get that they use MS? any articles....is their an initation ritual for getting into these cartels or are they lossely affiliated like the colombians were during their heyday....I dont get why these guys are doing the cartels dirty work why wouldnt they just blast them and take over....Obsessed

Yeah I said that chicanos don't hold sway in the drug war, and I stand by that. For one the Zetas don't let Maras have any say in what's going on, they just follow orders and nothing else. You what happens if they disobey? They get murdered. Again you seem to think that pulling triggers for the Cartel is something that automatically makes you important. As a gunman you are above lookouts and common street dealers, above you is every one else. I know Maras are LA gang influenced but they themselves are not chicanos. They are Central Americans, don't matter to me what little style they follow, something you seemed to be obsessed about, they sure as hell don't think of themselves as chicanos. And you said so yourself that you only consider hispanics that have been in the US for generations chicanos, isn't that the ELA way?

But fuuck all that pathetic shit about who started wearing what, you got embarrassed in every single one of those debates but can't seem to realize it. Let me tell what's going on.

First and foremost you have to remember that the founder of the the zetas was special forces trained, Arturo Guzman ex GAFE. He is now dead but he got a bunch of soldiers, although most were just regular soldiers unlike the myth that all the original zetas were all ex GAFE, together and set up this military structure for the zetas. The current leader of the Zetas was also a GAFE and attended the School of the America's, his name is Humberto Lazcano. You know what they teach at now closed School of the Americans, counterinsurgency and how to stabilize governments. As you can see those skill will come in handy. Now as I said before the Zetas also recruited a lot of Kaibiles from Guatemala. Kaibiles have a nick name that they got during the Guatemalan civil war, Death Machines. 200,00 people died in that war and 80,000 were blamed on the Kaibiles, and they don't have high numbers. I know Guatemala is a small country with limited resources, but among special forces groups Kailbiles are respected. Many soldiers from many countries go to Guatemala to take a Kaibil course. One Kaibil was a the personal bodyguard of a high level zeta, his nickname was el Ostion, he died in a shootout. And what are Kaibiles trained in? Counterinsurgency and jungle warfare. That head chopping in Mexico was said to be started by the Kaibiles. The Kaibiles are also used in the Congo under the UN.

So to how they use maras but still call themselves zetas. Well they keep those gang loyalties behind them. Yes there is many maras that were recruited by the Zetas, but there is also many that are not. So how do you think the Zetas keep order. They just simply kill anyone that is disobeying their orders. They don't punish, they don't check some fool, no they just simply murder the insubordinate person in front of the rest to set an example. No not a bullet to the head, some one start slicing away at your neck with a knife. Is the life a soldier any glamorous, hell no, they fight and die. Today in the military in first world countries if you disobey order you get time in jail. The Zetas are old school if you don't do what you are told you die a horrible death at their hands. Once you are a zeta you are a zeta, if you half step you die. Although I don't like to use the word zeta for your common gunner. So put it like this, once you are a gunner for the zetas you can ever give off the impression that you are thinking independently.
mayugastank wrote:I dont get why these guys are doing the cartels dirty work why wouldnt they just blast them and take over.
Could it be because they are just gunners that wouldn't know the first thing about running shit themselves. Look the Zetas started off as High Level security for the Gulf Cartel, they could make contacts with politicians, drug suppliers, businessmen, and were actually men that were trained to take on governments. The gunners the zetas recruit, they recruit knowing that most of them are just throw aways. They keep them isolated so those guys can't make contacts. Look if you're a recruit that's ex military special forces you are obviously going to be in a higher position than that gangmember they fully believe is just cannon fodder. Say you are a mara in el Salvador and they send you to Sonora Mexico. Who the hell does that banger know in Sonora, you think the zetas are going show him around and teach the guy who is who, no, he just there to fight die and nothing else. Gunmen are kept isolated so they don't get any ideas. Again there is nothing glamorous or special about being a gunman, I honestly think most of them got suckered in thinking it was.

I'll get deeper into this tomorrow. Every cartel has a different style of doing things.

little clip from youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v8XDAbV9Nc

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 27th, 2010, 2:16 am

Yeah I said that chicanos don't hold sway in the drug war, and I stand by that. For one the Zetas don't let Maras have any say in what's going on, they just follow orders and nothing else. You what happens if they disobey? They get murdered. Again you seem to think that pulling triggers for the Cartel is something that automatically makes you important. As a gunman you are above lookouts and common street dealers, above you is every one else. I know Maras are LA gang influenced but they themselves are not chicanos. They are Central Americans, don't matter to me what little style they follow, something you seemed to be obsessed about, they sure as hell don't think of themselves as chicanos. And you said so yourself that you only consider hispanics that have been in the US for generations chicanos, isn't that the ELA way?

But fuuck all that pathetic shit about who started wearing what, you got embarrassed in every single one of those debates but can't seem to realize it. Let me tell what's going on.


YOU JUST HAD TO SAY THAT? you need to learn to leave arguments in the thread they started at-I dont argue with the same people in different threads that have nothing to do with what we are CURRENTLY talking about.

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 27th, 2010, 2:25 am

Okay back to what interests me --I read about 5 hours a day on everything -its an obsession and my active hobby, has been for at least 7 years.


Now this gang war seems to have exploded all thru Mexico it was real rough in Tijuana, It seems to me that the cartels are killing alot of non affiliated people.How in actuality could you go and kidnapp a rival cartel member...I mean do they have neighborhoods they live in? How is it possible that chapo would send a whole army of hitmen to a state so far away....its like having an Texas and California gang war. They must be pretty out in the open to be doing dirty work like that. Is their anything like a commission where disputes get settled? Their seems to be no rythm to the madness-ist like they are trying to annihilate whole citys. Do these police allow this to happen-it doesnt make sense as far as teh brazen attacks being committed against the goverment while at the same time I have read that the cartel is the goverment. Do you know anything about the contacts with columbia? hwo much dope are we talking about-? Has their been any proof of direct links with the colombian cartels...last I heard they were going to cut Mexico off because they were losing too much money. where do they transport these drugs to when dealing with colombians? just how active are the MARAS in Mexico? youd figure chiano gangs would be alot more active.

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by thewestside » June 27th, 2010, 9:43 pm

As is well known, there are currently 7 major cartels in Mexico. But alliances are constantly shifting as they have been fighting for territory during the government crackdown the last few years. They, and they operatives here in the U.S., are the major players and the ones that dominate the drug trade. The Hispanic gangs here in the U.S. are lower on the food chain.

Sinaloa Cartel
Gulf Cartel
Juarez Cartel
Tijuana Cartel
Beltran Leyva Cartel
Zetas
La Familia


Incidentally, there is a very good article in the current issue of Time Magazine about the La Familia cartel. You have to buy it at the store or sign up for it to read the whole thing but part of it is at the link below.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 49,00.html

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mnjmc » June 27th, 2010, 10:44 pm

mayugastank wrote:Okay back to what interests me --
Hey you were the that brought up Maras being chicano influenced. I just wanted to stop you dead in your tracks before you do what you did last time and claim that the reason Mexico’s war is out of hand is because some gang members joined the cartels and end up becoming cannon fodder. Now we can begin.

mayugastank wrote:Now this gang war seems to have exploded all thru Mexico it was real rough in Tijuana
Tijuana is peaceful now because the Sinaloa Cartel for now has stopped trying to take over Tijuana. Not they are still not passing loads through the place, but now they are being covert about it. It’s not open warfare like before, because the Sinaloan’s lost their insider El Teo, so they backed up for a little bit. But things are looking to heat up in Baja California because Mexicali, Sinaloa Cartel territory, is getting hot right now. My guess is that el Inge is planning a counter attack.
mayugastank wrote:It seems to me that the cartels are killing alot of non affiliated people.
Yes there is. Now since you have to pay for so many gunmen and this war, the cartels are getting into different forms of making money. So they kidnap and extort innocent people for money. If they don’t pay the ransom or the extortion quota they kill their victims. Also with pirated goods, the Zetas and La Familia Michoacana will not let you sell a pirated dvd or software with out them getting their cut. Both Z’s and LFM have warehouses were they produce pirated goods and supply the street vendors. In territories controlled by them the pirated software and movies better have their logo sticker on it or you will get a visit from them.

Sure technically what the street vendors are doing is illegal but selling bootleg dvd’s does not make you a hardcore criminal. So to me those guys are also considered non affiliates.
mayugastank wrote:How in actuality could you go and kidnapp a rival cartel member
Depends on who you are trying to get. Example when el Chapo was fighting the Arellanos in the 90s he wasn’t nearly as powerful as he is now. Back then you could of got to him with a squad of killers and some intelligence on his whereabouts. Now Chapo is 50 times what he was. Chapo today was nothing but ex soldiers guarding him, and the are armed with 50. Cals machine guns, bazookas, mortars and hundreds if not thousands of soldiers surrounding his location for many miles. It would be like trying to find Bin Laden. No other cartel’s gunmen can get to him. If there were to capture/kill the guy only the governments troops could, of course with the help of the US backing.

Mexican troops nearly caught him once but since his people extend for many miles, he was long gone before they got to the place he was hiding out, and the according to different sources Chapo spends much of his time high up in the Golden Triangle’s mountain region, kind of hard to get a guy in that type of landscape even if he didn‘t have vast amounts of resources.

Or say you wanted to kill Lazcano or El 40, well good luck. They make sure in the areas they rule the people terrified of the Zetas. Like the guy in the youtube video I showed, you act out of line in their territories and they will put the fear of God in you. Again they have a huge network of people working for them that moniter the soldiers and federal police. And of course they have many of them in their pocket. Like I said before most gunman for the Zetas are easily replaceable, it’s not the hardest thing in the world to convince young men in 3 rd world countries to fight and die for a cartel with the promise, even though it’s a fake promise, of money and power. When Zeta gunman take on soldiers they always get their ass handed to them. There is not one gun fight the Zetas ever won against the soldiers, out of all that the men the Mexican forces have killed the Zetas are the majority of them. But it doesn’t matter to them because they know they got many recruits to replenish their ranks. So since the Zetas can’t seem to kill many soldiers in a head on shootout they kidnap, torture and kill them when they are off duty.

It’s like Vietnam and Afghanistan, the Soldiers or Marines kill many more of the insurgents than insurgents kill Soldiers/Marines. But it doesn’t matter because they have millions of recruits to fill their ranks. The Zetas are using the same strategy, no matter how many of them die or get captured they will keep coming back until they wear you down.

Another thing is that the Sinaloan’s seem to prefer to just provide intel to the corrupt Federal forces on their payroll of their enemies. People have always thought it strange that even though the Sinaloa Cartel is the one that smuggles the most drugs and make the most money, their high level people never seem to get touched. In the Zetas, Lazcano is the only one left alive and free from the original 20 that made them up, all the rest are either dead or are in prison. The Sinaloan’s greatest enemy, Arturo Beltran was killed in a raid the Mexican Marines did in a apartment complex. Just about all the Arellano clan or either dead or in prison. But have any of the Sinaloan’s top people ever been caught, nope. They just catch a low level person from the Sinaloa Cartel and pump him up to be a lot bigger than what he was. I kid you not, not to long ago they were saying a guy they found in stash house with like a pound of cocaine and one AK was the head of Chapo Guzman’s gunman.
mayugastank wrote:...I mean do they have neighborhoods they live in?
Wouldn’t really matter, they own plenty of houses and move around all the time. If it gets to hot in the spot they are in they can always move somewhere else. And since cartel figures have informants all over the place they will know before anyone else if someone is moving on a state or city they control. They have taxi drivers, local police, the street kids, and street vendors reporting to them suspicious activity.
mayugastank wrote:How is it possible that chapo would send a whole army of hitmen to a state so far away
A lot of times it’s with local support. The whole reason Chapo was able to get into Juarez is that many people under the Juarez Cartel’s rule were not happy with they way things were being run. They turned their allegiance to Chapo and started helping his people sneak into Juarez to wage war. They still don’t control the whole city but according to the FBI Chapo’s people now control most the drug being moved through Juarez.

Another example is Arturo Beltran and his partnership with the Zetas. When Arturo was still with Sinaloa Cartel the Zetas could not enter Sinaloa. After he turned on his fellow Sinaloans he helped Zetas move into Sinaloa too help him take on El Mayo and Chapo’s people. Recently in a prison in Mazatlan, Sinaloa they butchered about 20 zetas. Why? Because Chapo’s people are winning in that area and he is ordering his men to wipe out the Z’s from his territory. And when I say wipe out I mean wipe out, they want all the remaining Zetas/Beltran people dead.
mayugastank wrote:....its like having an Texas and California gang war.
And that’s why Cartels and Streetgangs are two totally different animals. The cartels have a much greater sphere of influence that any steetgang could dream of. You can’t compare the two. Two different gangs would not gang against each other if they were in different states.
mayugastank wrote:They must be pretty out in the open to be doing dirty work like that. Is their anything like a commission where disputes get settled?
There kind of was back around the time of Amado Carrillo. But all of that went to pieces, and even when he was alive he wanted to take out the Arellanos so it was never 100% peaceful.

Right now the LFM, Gulf Cartel, and the Sinaloa Cartel have alliance because or their common enemy, Zetas. The Beltrans and the Zetas were allied too but I honestly don’t know where they stand now after Arturo died.
mayugastank wrote:Their seems to be no rythm to the madness-ist like they are trying to annihilate whole citys.
They are not trying to annihilate whole cities, but when one cartel is to starting lose a city or state they act desperate. The Juarez Cartel of old would of never given the Aztecas the firepower and money they ended up given them. When Chapo Guzman’s people arrived in Juarez, well lets just I was very impressed how quickly they got rid of the important people for the Juarez Cartel in the city. The Gente Nueva, Chapo’s gunners, put out a list of cops that were important to La Linea, Police that are hitmen for the Juarez Cartel, and they killed off all that were in the list except those who fled the city. They also sent the Soldiers to capture very high level people from Juarez, El Tigre and El Rikin. So what does Juarez do when things around them are going south, they go to the gangs to cause havoc, and likewise the Sinaloa Cartel responds in kind and gave the Aztecas gang rivals, Artistas Asesinos and Mexicles, funding. But in the end of the day the Sinaloa Cartel is getting more dope across the border according to the FBI. Doesn’t matter to the Chapo if the gangs are destroying the city, as long as he has more control of the flow of drug traffic I think he is happy the people are busy worrying about the violence in Juarez than the movement of drugs in through Juarez.
mayugastank wrote:Do these police allow this to happen-it doesnt make sense as far as teh brazen attacks being committed against the goverment while at the same time I have read that the cartel is the goverment.
Not all of Mexico is ruled by the Cartels. In some places however they are the full authority. In Culiacan the mayor of Culiacan, and many people think future governor of Sinaloa, is the Godfather to one of Mayo Zambada’s kids or the other way around I’m not really sure.

In Michoacan the La Familia are the in complete control of most of the state. They even decide who runs for a political position and collect taxes. They also provide social services and enforce law their own laws. They freaking tell people not to drink and drive and give lashings to petty thieves.
mayugastank wrote:Do you know anything about the contacts with columbia? hwo much dope are we talking about-?
When it comes to cocaine, 90 percent of the cocaine coming to the US goes through Mexico first. Of that 90 I would say half of that belongs to the Sinaloa Cartel. But you also have realize that Mexico is the country were most of the foreign marijuana consumed in the US comes from, most of the Meth consumed in the US is from Mexico, and heroin is something the Mexicans are getting more heavily into.
mayugastank wrote:Has their been any proof of direct links with the colombian cartels...last I heard they were going to cut Mexico off because they were losing too much money.
The Colombians can’t cut off the Mexicans for one, more than one country produces cocaine you still got Bolivia and Peru, and two Colombians don’t control wholesale distribution in the US, Mexicans are in control of that now. That’s why Colombians are concentrating more on Europe and Africa.

As for the links between the Mexican and Colombians well that’s all the time. Do a quick google search with Mexican Colombian and Coacaine. There are too many links to mention. Hell they even intermarry. As is the case with Sandra Avila Beltran aka the Queen of the Pacific(Sinaloa Cartel) and Juan Diego Espinoza Ramírez aka el Tigre(Norte Valle Cartel).
mayugastank wrote:where do they transport these drugs to when dealing with colombians?
Everywhere, you mentioned why is Cancun important to the Cartels. Well if you look on a map its right above Colombia. It’s a strategic location to control in Mexico. Also you got it on the ground through Central America, and you have the Pacific Ocean.

One guy nick named el Jabali told the Federales that Chapo would receive cocaine loads in Jamiaca and then transport them to Sonora via airplane.
mayugastank wrote:just how active are the MARAS in Mexico? youd figure chiano gangs would be alot more active.
Maras in Mexico ain’t much except maybe in Chiapas, it borders Central America. And no chicano gangs are not very active in this war.

mnjmc
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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mnjmc » June 27th, 2010, 10:54 pm

thewestside wrote:As is well known, there are currently 7 major cartels in Mexico. But alliances are constantly shifting as they have been fighting for territory during the government crackdown the last few years. They, and they operatives here in the U.S., are the major players and the ones that dominate the drug trade. The Hispanic gangs here in the U.S. are lower on the food chain.

Sinaloa Cartel
Gulf Cartel
Juarez Cartel
Tijuana Cartel
Beltran Leyva Cartel
Zetas
La Familia


Incidentally, there is a very good article in the current issue of Time Magazine about the La Familia cartel. You have to buy it at the store or sign up for it to read the whole thing but part of it is at the link below.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 49,00.html
Hey which of the two do you believe is the better article with regards to La Familia? I really don't want to spend money on it unless it tops this one.

http://www.technologyinvestor.com/wp-co ... orLead.pdf

mayugastank
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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by mayugastank » June 27th, 2010, 11:17 pm

When it comes to cocaine, 90 percent of the cocaine coming to the US goes through Mexico first. Of that 90 I would say half of that belongs to the Sinaloa Cartel. But you also have realize that Mexico is the country were most of the foreign marijuana consumed in the US comes from, most of the Meth consumed in the US is from Mexico, and heroin is something the Mexicans are getting more heavily into.


Yes but thru it all NO ONE can compare Americas -appetite for coke in the 1980s and 1990s to what it is now. Their is no way they were using these tactics back then>at that point Miami was the center for cocaine now its the SOuthwest. These cartels are pretty new and I dont know if they are even an organization -it isnt like a mafia with soldiers and initations and then captains and such. Or is it? I just got done reading this article on LA FAMILIA.....hwo old are these guys? whats their initiation ceremony and how does a group like that gain so much power so quickly its like one day no ones heard of them the next they are running states? What do people think is going to happen to this situation.......I mean is this the emergence of Italian mafia type organizations or will they fizzle like the cartels of colombia? As for what we know only the mafia has been able to reproduce and continue to thrive thru history -it just seems like so much chaos going on to be organized.....why would these people have loyalty to chapo ? its not like he gives them something to believe in like teh mafia does with their oaths to family? you have got dozens of gangs used like cannon fodder and they make no beef ? USA street beefs being brought into the cartel war?

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Re: Mass Grave Found in Mexico - Result of Drug Wars

Unread post by thewestside » June 28th, 2010, 9:51 pm

mnjmc wrote:Hey which of the two do you believe is the better article with regards to La Familia? I really don't want to spend money on it unless it tops this one.

http://www.technologyinvestor.com/wp-co ... orLead.pdf
They are both good articles but the one you posted is much more extensive.

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