Norway safest country in the world, America in 96th place...

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Norway safest country in the world, America in 96th place...

Unread post by A Ghost » June 14th, 2007, 11:29 pm

http://www.3v8.org/2007/05/30/norway-is ... study.html

Norway is the most peaceful country in the world and Iraq the least, according to a study launched.

New Zealand ranks second and Australia is 25th on the list, which notably puts Japan near the top and Russia and Israel close to the bottom.

The Global Peace Index, published a week before a Group of Eight (G Eight) summit in Germany, rates 121 countries from Algeria to Zimbabwe on factors including levels of violence, organised crime and military expenditure.

While most European countries including Britain rank in the top, more peaceful, half of the league table, the United States is nearer the bottom in 96th place, while Russia is fifth from last on 118th.

“This is a wake-up call for leaders around the globe,” said Steve Killelea, who commissioned the study from the Economist Intelligence Unit, which is linked to the news weekly The Economist.

“Countries like Japan and Germany can give hope and optimism to countries further down the Index that there can be light at the end of what may seem at the moment like a very dark tunnel,” he added.

The index is backed by international figures including the Dalai Lama, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, former US president Jimmy Carter and US economist Joseph Stiglitz, all winners of the Nobel peace prize. It is also supported by Queen Noor of Jordan.

Overall the study found that small, stable countries which are part of regional blocs such as the 27-nation European Union are most likely to be more peaceful. Income and education are crucial in promoting peace, it said.

“I believe there is a link between the peacefulness and the wealth of nations and therefore business has a key role to play in peace,” said Killelea.

The Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Buddhist leader who fled China after an aborted uprising in 1959, said the launch of the Index could be a useful tool for policymakers.

“Compiling and maintaining an Index of which countries are the most peaceful and publishing the results will undoubtedly make the factors and qualities that contribute to that status better known, and will encourage people to foster them in their own countries,” he said.

The top 25 on the Global Peace Index:

1 Norway

2 New Zealand

3 Denmark

4 Ireland

5 Japan

6 Finland

7 Sweden

8 Canada

9 Portugal

10 Austria

11 Belgium

12 Germany

13 Czech Republic

14 Switzerland

15 Slovenia

16 Chile

17 Slovakia

18 Hungary

19 Bhutan

20 Netherlands

21 Spain

22 Oman

23 Hong Kong

24 Uruguay

25 Australia

The bottom 10 on the Global Peace Index:

112 Angola

113 Ivory Coast

114 Lebanon

115 Pakistan

116 Colombia

117 Nigeria.

118 Russia

119 Israel

120 Sudan

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Unread post by A Ghost » June 14th, 2007, 11:55 pm

Apparantly they take military spending into account, and thats why its so low

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Unread post by londonpride » June 29th, 2007, 1:41 am

Woul dhave thought japan,switzerland,sweden would have been far safer than ireland.Also New Zealand suprises me.Would though iraq would be in last place.

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Unread post by EmperorPenguin » June 29th, 2007, 8:42 am

Would be interesting to see this list in 2000. Where was America listed before 9/11 and how about Afghanistan and Iraq? I bet all 3 countries were considered "safer" back then. I find this quote some what strange:

“Countries like Japan and Germany can give hope and optimism to countries further down the Index that there can be light at the end of what may seem at the moment like a very dark tunnel,” he added.

I think the difference between Japan and Germany versus countries like Afghanistan and Iraq are that Japan and Germany brought war upon themselves, were as Afghanistan and Iraq had war thurst upon them. That and when WWII was over you had a whole bunch of countries trying to fill the power vacuum for Japan and Germany were as in Afghanistan and Iraq you have a couple first world countries that don't even care to fill the vacuum and a handful of insurgent groups fighting over power. At this point in time I don't see either middle eastern nation becoming the next Germany or Japan in terms of rebuilding.

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Unread post by niro » June 30th, 2007, 3:20 pm

how the hell is iraq not in the bottom 10? how old is this list?

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Unread post by niro » June 30th, 2007, 3:25 pm

duno bout that report but this one is more up to date and looks more right...duno if they're the same report but that site reported it wrong then

Code: Select all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/6704767.stm

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Unread post by A Ghost » July 1st, 2007, 5:43 pm

niro wrote:how the hell is iraq not in the bottom 10? how old is this list?
the bottom means that most dangerous

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Unread post by niro » July 2nd, 2007, 10:50 am

yea i kno...still doesnt take away from fact that Iraq should be in the bottom 10 list if not rite at the bottom

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Unread post by Sentenza » July 11th, 2007, 7:55 am

I think probably they didnt include countries with wars going on. But then they might aswell take Israel and Colombia out there too...Dont know.

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Unread post by 9Caliber » October 29th, 2007, 10:15 am

they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..

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Unread post by flame_guards_member1 » February 15th, 2008, 2:10 am

9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.

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Unread post by flame_guards_member1 » February 15th, 2008, 2:13 am

They should name America the biggest war zone in the world. :D

Really, the only reason America isn't in civil war status is because this could happen anywhere at anytime, and not at mass.

If it was a civil war, you would have Bagdhad style battles on the streets of Los Angeles and them, and attacks would happen every day at one place at mass, killing hundreds of people each time --- key word --- one place.

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Unread post by 9Caliber » February 15th, 2008, 9:24 am

flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.

Well take into account the size and population of the country!

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Unread post by eMachine » February 16th, 2008, 5:25 pm

I noticed number 1, 3,6,7, and 8 are not in the EU.

Even more interesting is they are Social Democracy(Socialist) governments.

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Unread post by eMachine » February 16th, 2008, 5:29 pm

I believe Norway also has the highest standard of living on earth.

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Unread post by Sentenza » February 16th, 2008, 8:37 pm

eMachine wrote:I noticed number 1, 3,6,7, and 8 are not in the EU.

Even more interesting is they are Social Democracy(Socialist) governments.
Social Democrat and Socialist is not the same. My Dad is a long time member of the Social Democrate party here and he taught me to abandon socialist ideas, cause they wont work. Socialists are borderline democrats. Social democrats are full democrats.

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Unread post by flame_guards_member1 » March 8th, 2008, 4:25 am

9Caliber wrote:
flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.

Well take into account the size and population of the country!
Ok. Both China and India have a population of over a billion people and their statistics compared to America's I posted above aren't even a 10th, or a 100th for that matter. America is the most dangerous place to live overall, if you take facts into account, but it is surely a wonderful place for businessmen and rich people. It's only wonderful for them. It's also a heaven for criminals since it's so easy to steal just about anything without the worry that witnesses will rat you about because there are no witnesses since everyone doesn't care and everyone minds their own business.

Size? Population? China. India. Both bigger, yet have more than 100x less of the statistics America has when it comes to criminal offenses and criminals themselves.

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Unread post by 9Caliber » March 8th, 2008, 10:51 am

flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:
flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.

Well take into account the size and population of the country!
Ok. Both China and India have a population of over a billion people and their statistics compared to America's I posted above aren't even a 10th, or a 100th for that matter. America is the most dangerous place to live overall, if you take facts into account, but it is surely a wonderful place for businessmen and rich people. It's only wonderful for them. It's also a heaven for criminals since it's so easy to steal just about anything without the worry that witnesses will rat you about because there are no witnesses since everyone doesn't care and everyone minds their own business.

Size? Population? China. India. Both bigger, yet have more than 100x less of the statistics America has when it comes to criminal offenses and criminals themselves.

First of all you cant really get accurate measurements of crime etc.. in china and india for the simple reason that there just too big and also that both their goverments are liable to fiddle with those statistics, i mean chinas only just got out of communism. But to be fair the crime rate is probably very low in china because everysones scared shitless that if they commit a crime they'll have their head chopped off. And i doubt that indias crime rate is that low when you take into account the size of some of the slums they have over there. Theres still millions of people living in shanty towns there. So crime must be rampant.

And america is far from being the most dangerous place to live. Most killings that happen in the U.S are due to personal disputes, not some person at random running around with an AK47 killing people.

Also i wasnt saying that the bigger the country the more crime, im saying that those figures are due to the population of the country, there obviuosly going to be higher than most other countrys. You have to look at crimes per 100 persons or so.

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 8th, 2008, 12:33 pm

Another problem is the effectiveness of law enforcement and the willingness of of people to report crimes in those countries. For example people will be less likely to report a crime in countries where the police is corrupt and violent and they have no chance for a fair trial, like in India for example. Once the police got you, you are at their mercy and if they kill you during interrogation, nothing will happen. You will just rot somewhere in the bushes. Thats not the case in most western countries and thats why the crime figures are more accurate there. Even though there are also huge flaws and injustices in most western countries the system is more effective.
If a cop beats you, you can drag him into court or go to the media in most cases. Try that in India or China. You will never be heard of again.
For example Germany statistically has one of the highest crime rates, but thats not because it is so dangerous, but because people report every violation of the law, from someone parking the wrong way to someones dog pissing in the wrong place.
Whereas in India or other countries the murder rates or just rough estimates because no one really investigates in most of the murder cases. If you get your skull cracked by your neighbour and he drops you in the woods nothing will ever happen most likely, especially if you are poor. In many of these countries the cops are more violent trhen the criminals.
I once saw a documentary about police work in India and there was a cop from Mumbay confessing that he had killed more then 90 criminals and he explained how they work there. In most cases if a serious crime is reported they would just go there, shoot up the place, dispose the bodies and thats it. Same in Brazil or other countries. And these killings would never be counted into crime statistics by these goverments cause they are "legal".
I also got a friend from Vietnam and he told me that it is not unusual to have corpses laying in the ditches or in the jungles and no one does shit about it or cares, except for the vultures who are getting a meal from it.
And in Africa its even worse. Murder is an everyday thing and in most of these countries there is no one to enforce the law.
So that being said i would say it is impossible to compare crime statistics of countries whose political and social situations are completely different.

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Unread post by flame_guards_member1 » March 8th, 2008, 4:06 pm

Western countries the system is very effective you say???

My brother got robbed twice, once with an automatic firearm, the second time with a knife. The first time he got shot at, and he fought with the robber and his gun. I belive this is armed robbery, aggrivated assault and attempted murder. The second time he just gave it up, he didn't want a repeat of 1. Besides that even if the guy had a knife with the gun he has to pull a button this way the guy could just swing and cut him up, so only another case of armed robbery. My brother is a small skinny person, not a big fighting type. My dad once got robbed, I don't know if they fight, but I belive my dad chased the robber which had a gun, and I guess they didn't fight, so it only turns out to be armed robbery. I know other people that got robbed, all at the same gas station as my brother and my dad. They even tore off the cabin part once with a pickup truck. Did we ever get justice? No. The people haven't even been caught and I doubt this is even classified as a cold case. My brother and dad could've been murdered, but they weren't, so the cops didn't have to chase anyone, and even if that, show it on the local news today, they chase the guy for like 6 months, they put the murder as a cold case.

No. I look at this as a random crime that could happen to a random person. This is in Canada, too. So if all those times the robbers robbed the gas station, numerous people too, and some even fought with them, some got stabbed, some got shot at, none are caught?

Is that justice?

I'd rather go to corrupt police, owe them 5 grand, but in the end let them murder all those who did this, than go to honest police who give these guys a break.

You apparently don't take in unreported crimes. If it's 29 million crimes in 1999, 1 year, that were reported, then how much would've been unreported? I guarentee 3-4x more than the population of the entire United States. This being maybe a billion crimes in total, both reported and unreported.

But let's break down a crime. What's a crime? Bullying is a crime. It happens every 9 seconds on the playground at any school, so then what? Assault and battery, or fights, even if they're staged between two people, it's considered a crime because bodily harm occours, and there is a great chance the staged fight could escelate into a brawl between the two sides cheering them on.

How much of this happens every day in big western cities?

Traffic crimes? Look at NYC. Nobody obeys traffic laws, the taxi drivers would tell you to fuck you and get the fuck out of the way, even if it's your time to pass the street as a pedestrain, just so they could speed past a red light.

I belive this is failing to stop on a red signal, speeding, and disorderly conduct for randomly yelling and swearing at people.

You get my point.

As for China, yes, everyone is too afriad to commit a crime, but besides that, people don't. There are bad people in China as well in the states, but they're not criminals. Bad people in the states are not criminals, but criminals are criminals, and there are more criminals in the states than bad people.

As for India, well, it's a jungle. Alot of people are poor, and due to the fact that the population goes beyond downtown Manhattan at day time in some parts of Mumbai's slums, how can one tell what goes on? Random noise could be a fight.

But why compare the states with India and China? And why add the rates on top of that? Rates are way lower than in the states. If you wanted high rates, take a look at some African countries. Good and bad people, as well as criminals from all over the world go to the states on a daily basis. You get the mix effect then, violance, because you have race, religion, ethnicity, language and alot of other things to go for.

I don't know how to say it without people flaming me, but I will anyways in the most simplest way possible:

Why would people in India or China want to commit crimes against eachother? It's mostly the same race, religion or so fourth, and I said I don't count killing sprees, just random crimes. They have enough problems to worry about themselves, such as their finance.

In the USA it's different. Yes, there are gangs and criminal organizations in China and India too, but not every single youth wants to be in that culture, unlike America. You have most of the mainstream youth wanting to be gangsta, they dress that way, and they behave like hooligans. Next thing you know, they either form their own gang, get access to weapons and drugs, and start to commit crimes, do graffiti and so on, or they just join a gang and do that.

Back in Europe, people don't understand why the youth cares about gang culture so much and see it as their life just like how people in the USA don't see the point of having sport as your life, aka football hooliganism.

I don't know. Western countries seem worse to me crime wise because people are given more freedom and that freedom creates an illusion that you won't get caught because, hey, everyone is doing it.

As for Eastern, communist states, all you need to do is obey the law, mind your own business when it comes to the government, and you will live fine. Have fun. If you want a bonus, like a an award like a medal or maybe a cash prize, rat on someone you see doing a crime. This also increases your relationship with the government because people usually commiting crimes in a communist country are what the government calls coups, resistance, overthrow, etc.

That's it.

Freedom, and more flexibility in law, as you said, is what gives people the ability to commit more crimes in Western society than in Eastern society.

I don't see how this is better for anyone but the criminal himself. If it isn't flexbile enough, law enforcement and judges, can be bribed very easily. That's more flexibility.

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 8th, 2008, 5:47 pm

What i was trying to say is, that in western countries more crimes are likely to be reported then in 3rd world countries, thats what distorts these statistics.

NikexCortez

Unread post by NikexCortez » March 8th, 2008, 5:57 pm

Doesn't America has the most or highest murder rate in the world?

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Unread post by 9Caliber » March 9th, 2008, 3:58 am

Look you cant compare any MEDC to a LEDC(less economically developed country) when talking about crime. Because the situation in the LEDC is always twice as bad. The U.S.A is a safe country, so is every other MEDC. You cant try and say that the U.S.A has the highest crime rates, murder rates etc in the world becuause it doesnt. Maybe it does if youre just looking at MEDC's (more economically developed countrys). In fact the U.S probably does have thehighest crime rates of any MEDC's. Also maybe youre dad and brother did get robbed, they reported it to the police yes. In an LEDC i doubt they would even bother reporting it, they would probably get a knife and get revenge.


But you cannot even attempt to start comparing the U.S with any LEDC's. Its stupid.
1. The LEDC's wont usually give the correct data
2. There is a lot more unreported crime there
3. There is a lot less money in the country, people are more desperate and more willing to get money, the goverment doesnt have any money to sort the problem out or in a dictatorship they wont even if they had the money.


So dont even start to try and compare the U.S to LEDC's because the U.S would seem like heaven.

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Unread post by Mcminister » March 9th, 2008, 1:00 pm

flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.
america doesnt have nothing cloes to 100,000 murders a yaer....maybe over a 10 year count but a year..damn dats a state of emergency

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Unread post by A Ghost » March 9th, 2008, 9:24 pm

9Caliber wrote:Also maybe youre dad and brother did get robbed, they reported it to the police yes. In an LEDC i doubt they would even bother reporting it, they would probably get a knife and get revenge.


But you cannot even attempt to start comparing the U.S with any LEDC's. Its stupid.
1. The LEDC's wont usually give the correct data
2. There is a lot more unreported crime there
3. There is a lot less money in the country, people are more desperate and more willing to get money, the goverment doesnt have any money to sort the problem out or in a dictatorship they wont even if they had the money.


So dont even start to try and compare the U.S to LEDC's because the U.S would seem like heaven.
What about people in the US who have lost loved ones to street violence?

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Unread post by 9Caliber » March 10th, 2008, 8:58 am

You dont get the point do ya. Yes there are some people that have lost loved ones to street violence, its the same in every other countrys in the world. All the was from america to japan.

But in the U.S at least the police or government will help you, they will look for the murderer etc.. it will probably get reported in the local newspaper. At least the victim and his/her family would get attention.

But when you look at LEDC's the police would probably just shrug you off, they wouldnt make a record of it, they would probably just dispose of the body and forget about it. In some countrys the police probably wuldnt even dipose of the body. And this would happen everyday, nobody would care, just another normal day. If you wanted justice youd do it your way, or if you wanted the police to do something you would pay them to find a kill the murderer.

So i dont know how you can think that the U.S.A is dangerous compared to every other country in the world.

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Unread post by A Ghost » March 10th, 2008, 11:29 am

9Caliber wrote:You dont get the point do ya. Yes there are some people that have lost loved ones to street violence, its the same in every other countrys in the world. All the was from america to japan.

But in the U.S at least the police or government will help you, they will look for the murderer etc.. it will probably get reported in the local newspaper. At least the victim and his/her family would get attention.

But when you look at LEDC's the police would probably just shrug you off, they wouldnt make a record of it, they would probably just dispose of the body and forget about it. In some countrys the police probably wuldnt even dipose of the body. And this would happen everyday, nobody would care, just another normal day. If you wanted justice youd do it your way, or if you wanted the police to do something you would pay them to find a kill the murderer.

So i dont know how you can think that the U.S.A is dangerous compared to every other country in the world.
Danger level doesnt have anything to do with what happens to the murderer after he kills.

Im not saying America is as bad as 3rd world countries.

But people who laugh at American violence need a wake up call.

America is a place where 12 year old bust guns and kill people, and it's not rare. America is a place where south American death squad escape over the border and continue their murderous ways in the states. It's a place were 15 year olds can be walking down the street and get cut in half from over 100 rounds of AK-47 fire because of mistaken identity.

And in some cities the cops dont give a shit either...


I know of incidents out here where the cops barely investigated crimes just because they didnt like the people who got killed.

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Unread post by 9Caliber » March 10th, 2008, 1:54 pm

A Ghost wrote:
9Caliber wrote:You dont get the point do ya. Yes there are some people that have lost loved ones to street violence, its the same in every other countrys in the world. All the was from america to japan.

But in the U.S at least the police or government will help you, they will look for the murderer etc.. it will probably get reported in the local newspaper. At least the victim and his/her family would get attention.

But when you look at LEDC's the police would probably just shrug you off, they wouldnt make a record of it, they would probably just dispose of the body and forget about it. In some countrys the police probably wuldnt even dipose of the body. And this would happen everyday, nobody would care, just another normal day. If you wanted justice youd do it your way, or if you wanted the police to do something you would pay them to find a kill the murderer.

So i dont know how you can think that the U.S.A is dangerous compared to every other country in the world.
Danger level doesnt have anything to do with what happens to the murderer after he kills.

Im not saying America is as bad as 3rd world countries.

But people who laugh at American violence need a wake up call.

America is a place where 12 year old bust guns and kill people, and it's not rare. America is a place where south American death squad escape over the border and continue their murderous ways in the states. It's a place were 15 year olds can be walking down the street and get cut in half from over 100 rounds of AK-47 fire because of mistaken identity.

And in some cities the cops dont give a shit either...


I know of incidents out here where the cops barely investigated crimes just because they didnt like the people who got killed.



HA

you think that doesnt happen in other countrys? ( apart from the bit about the south american death squad)
all over the word youll find the same thing happening, i mean in london a boy was killed as he was asleep in his bed, the killer broke into his home and shot him through the chest, later we found out it was a case of mistaken identity, he wasnt even safe in his own home let alone walking down a street.

It shows that this sort of thing happens all over the place, its not just confined to america.
And youll also find that it happens a lot more frequently and brutaly in other countrys.

But yea you can think that america is amazingly violent, i agree in some pockets it is very violent, but those pockets are in most cases very small areas. The same with any other well deveploped country. The only reason amerca gets a reputaion for that sort of thing is becuase of the sheer size of it. But when you look at a country like Brazil which is fairly similiar, (population of brazil= about 200 million,, population of U.S.A=about 300 million) The situation in brazil is so much worse. The death rate in Rio sometimes is even worse than that of Iraq. And you say that people that laugh at violence in the U.S.A need to wake up. Well the U.S.A would seem like a heaven to most brazillians. The U.S.A is not violent, Britain is not violent, France is not violent, pritty much every MEDC is not violent compared to LEDC's.

But if you want to think that the U.S.A is violent than carry on, i cant stop you.

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 10th, 2008, 2:02 pm

A Ghost wrote:
9Caliber wrote:You dont get the point do ya. Yes there are some people that have lost loved ones to street violence, its the same in every other countrys in the world. All the was from america to japan.

But in the U.S at least the police or government will help you, they will look for the murderer etc.. it will probably get reported in the local newspaper. At least the victim and his/her family would get attention.

But when you look at LEDC's the police would probably just shrug you off, they wouldnt make a record of it, they would probably just dispose of the body and forget about it. In some countrys the police probably wuldnt even dipose of the body. And this would happen everyday, nobody would care, just another normal day. If you wanted justice youd do it your way, or if you wanted the police to do something you would pay them to find a kill the murderer.

So i dont know how you can think that the U.S.A is dangerous compared to every other country in the world.
Danger level doesnt have anything to do with what happens to the murderer after he kills.

Im not saying America is as bad as 3rd world countries.

But people who laugh at American violence need a wake up call.

America is a place where 12 year old bust guns and kill people, and it's not rare. America is a place where south American death squad escape over the border and continue their murderous ways in the states. It's a place were 15 year olds can be walking down the street and get cut in half from over 100 rounds of AK-47 fire because of mistaken identity.

And in some cities the cops dont give a shit either...


I know of incidents out here where the cops barely investigated crimes just because they didnt like the people who got killed.
No one is laughing at America concerning these things. I am not even laughing at Europe, cause even though its pretty safe, there are some tough areas there too.
But i still think it is an unchangeable fact, that the law enforcement system is much more effective in these countries, then in South America, Africa and most parts of Asia.
Check these articles out:

Brazilian police 'execute thousands'

BBC News, Rio de Janeiro

Rio's police are heavily armed in many areas of the city
Hundreds, possibly thousands of people are shot by police every year in Brazil, a BBC investigation has found.

The authorities say it is mainly criminals caught in military-style raids on drug gangs but according to a former senior official, new evidence suggests that many of the shootings are cold-blooded executions conducted by the police.

Former police ombudsman Professor Julita Lemgruber has told BBC World Service's Assignment programme that, in the state of Rio alone, the police killed 983 people last year. The figure is similar for Sao Paulo.

"The federal government should be challenging the various state governments in Brazil about the hundreds of people that the police kill in this country," she says.

Victims

As a former ombudsman, Professor Lemgruber was responsible for investigating the police as part of a previous crack down on corruption.

In the past five years, the number of fatal police shootings has more than doubled. Based on her experience as a government official, Professor Lemgruber says she believes the police are free to act with impunity.

It's all premeditated - very cold-blooded and calculated

Former military policeman
"You couldn't really investigate complaints because you knew there was this curtain of silence that was always present," she says.

She adds that she had personally dealt with cases in which summary executions had happened.

The authorities in Rio dismiss these allegations. They say most people killed by the police are criminals, shot in military-style raids.

But in the spring of this year events took a sinister turn when, on 31 March, two men entered a bar and started shooting, not once or twice, but again and again. Most of the victims were shot at close range - in the chest and in the head.

In all, 29 people were shot dead, apparently not by members of a criminal drug gang - but by off-duty police officers.

Executions

A former military policeman, Gordinho (not his real name), says executions by police death squads are common.

"Everyone knows the police here in Rio de Janeiro... nearly all of them abuse their authority," he says.


Most people killed by police are criminals caught up in raids, officials say
"When you get excited you feel you are the law... The shooting cases you hear about, most of them are executions.

"It's all premeditated - very cold-blooded and calculated."

After the killings in March, Marcello Itagebah, Secretary of State for Public Security and the man ultimately responsible for policing in Rio, promised to take a "meat cleaver" to police corruption. Following the investigation, 11 police officers were arrested.

"That shows to the people that we can conduct a very good investigation and that we can arrest police officers that committed crime," he said.

"We already have arrested more than 500 police officers, and we have expelled about 200 since last February. That is a job that has to be done every day."

But executions by death squads appear to be a traditional feature of Rio policing. While the authorities no longer give them official backing, evidence from the city morgues suggests they continue.

"Around 60% of the bodies of people that were killed by the police had more than six shots," explains Professor Lemgruber.

"Most of them [were shot] in the head and in the back - mostly executions."

Brazil is a deeply religious nation. Leaders of the Catholic Church have spoken out against corruption in politics and in the police force.

And among the congregations in the favelas, there is growing anger. They are determined to fight for change.

"You see children playing in the streets, and the people all happy - but when the cops come here - pop pop pop - some people are killed," says one resident, Paolo Cesar.

"They kill everybody. They got bad cops - bad cops."

Another resident insists that "we are fighting really hard for justice because the guilty people have to pay".

The crucial test now for Brazil's politicians is whether they have the will and ability to overturn a longstanding and lethal police culture of justice by bullet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4463010.stm

Brazil police killings condemned

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7095808.stm

Brazil: Conviction in the Baixada Fluminense massacre case

“The conviction of Carlos Jorge Carvalho, military police officer in Rio de Janeiro, for his involvement in the indiscriminate killings of 29 civilians in the Baixada Fluminense area of Rio de Janeiro on 31 March 2005 is an important step in fighting impunity for human rights violators,” Amnesty International stated today.

http://asiapacific.amnesty.org/library/ ... of=ENG-332

INDIA: Police criminal nexus and absence of a legal framework perpetuates crime

Monoranjan Ghosh, a resident of Gopalpur village in South 24 Parganas District of West Bengal, was threatened by a money-extorting gang at least half a dozen times. Monoranjan was assaulted several times and had to be hospitalised once. His family and the entire village were threatened by the members of the gang. On each occasion, Monoranjan filed complaints at local police stations, but none of these complaints were investigated.

The local police in India are, by and large, corrupt, although this reality is often disputed even by some human rights organisations and by the government of India.

Most police officers associate themselves with criminals in their locality as the police are often involved in the same crimes and/or in many cases seek to claim a share of the money collected by the criminals. The police assist the criminals by either refusing to take any action against them or, if under pressure, by registering cases but failing to properly investigate them.

http://www.ahrchk.net/statements/mainfi ... ments/997/

Russia: Police Corruption Chokes Progress

Moscow, 19 February 2003 (RFE/RL) -- It's not hard to find evidence of police corruption in Russia. This according to someone who knows about the subject: a former police detective who recently served time in prison after being ensnared in what he says was an internal department setup.

Released from jail last year, Anatolii -- not his real name -- is now a beat cop. He refuses to discuss the details of his own case, but says overall police corruption is hard to miss. "You can easily take a look at the cars that drive up to the Interior Ministry or even any police precinct. There are foreign models and jeeps that cost so much that an honest employee wouldn't earn that kind of money if he worked irreproachably for a decade," he said.

http://www.freeserbia.net/Articles/2003/Corruption.html

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Unread post by Sentenza » March 10th, 2008, 2:05 pm

^^ In countries like that you think twice before you report any crime to the police.

Thats on a completely different level then the US or Europe.

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Unread post by 9Caliber » March 10th, 2008, 2:35 pm

Sentenza wrote:^^ In countries like that you think twice before you report any crime to the police.

Thats on a completely different level then the US or Europe.

Thats we are trying to point out
you cant compare te U.S or europe to south america, africa etc..
So i dont know how the hell someone managed to rank the U.S.A in 96th place.
Also i don know why people think that you can compare the U.S.A in terms of violence to south america, africa etc...

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Unread post by flame_guards_member1 » April 13th, 2008, 11:31 pm

Mcminister wrote:
flame_guards_member1 wrote:
9Caliber wrote:they always do lists like this
best places to live safest etc...
it suprises me that the U.S is so low because its usually in the top ten for best places to live, safest etc..
Well, take this into account:

Total number of crimes in 1999: 30 million
Total number of gangs: around 35,000
Total number of gang members: 700,000+
Total number of people in prison: 2 million+
Total number of homicides in an average year: 100,000
Total number of gun murders in an average year: 30,000-40,000 or 80-100+ each day
Total number of criminals: over 10 million
Total number of people who have commited criminal offenses, from parking tickets to murders: over 100 million

That is both an estimate and a statistic. You don't take into account less common occourances like mass shootings and terrorist attacks.

Besides this, there are tens of millions of fights each year in the states that are reported, while hundreds of millions are unreported.

Numbers too unrealistic? It's the states! You are the most ethniclly diverse nation in the world. Literally. Hate leads to violance.
america doesnt have nothing cloes to 100,000 murders a yaer....maybe over a 10 year count but a year..damn dats a state of emergency
Now you notice?

According to a gang documentary, in South Central Los Angeles alone, from 1994 until now, there have been more than 15,000 murders. Now you compare that to the entire USA, do the math and figure out the result.

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