Russian mafia in america..

Unread post by **VostokSila** » October 21st, 2008, 12:16 pm

I was searching this online and found this article..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/07/ ... 7683.shtml

I started reading and this caught my attention right away..

"Italian organized crime in America is a pimple on a horse's ass compared with Russian organized crime in America—and globally,"

Poeple have differant opinions.. I do not live in America so I have less knowledge of what is going on there.. I want to know the basic truth of this sentence.. if there is any.. Fuciliana please do not comment here. I want comments from people who know what they are talking about..

Unread post by **Faciulina** » October 21st, 2008, 5:43 pm

"Italian organized crime in America is a pimple on a horse's ass compared with Russian organized crime in America—and globally,"

Poeple have differant opinions.. I do not live in America so I have less knowledge of what is going on there.. I want to know the basic truth of this sentence.. if there is any.. Fuciliana please do not comment here. I want comments from people who know what they are talking about..

i doubt this writer know what he is talking about the italian mafia in the states killed thousands of mobsters and even cops politicians businessmen and judges although in the past and not in these days... the russians never killed any cops or judges or anyone out of the underworld and i doubt it could do it today the fbi is ready to fight everyone if it fights the mafia that is the most powerful it can fight everyone and it has a by far major knowledge of organized crime than the past... i don't want to destroy your dreams but no other criminal groups will be even close to be powerful like la cosa nostra

Unread post by **thewestside** » October 21st, 2008, 6:34 pm

VostokSila wrote:I was searching this online and found this article..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/07/ ... 7683.shtml

I started reading and this caught my attention right away..

"Italian organized crime in America is a pimple on a horse's ass compared with Russian organized crime in America—and globally,"

Poeple have differant opinions.. I do not live in America so I have less knowledge of what is going on there.. I want to know the basic truth of this sentence.. if there is any.. Fuciliana please do not comment here. I want comments from people who know what they are talking about..

I remember that article. I've said many times that the "new groups" tend to be overrated by both law enforcement and media personell when they first start receiving a lot of attention. And inevitably, they will say that the traditional Italian Mafia Families are nothing compared to whatever the new group is. This is a classic case of that, where Robert Friedman has written a few books on Russian organized crime. His comment above has proven to be a vast overstatement, both in the U.S. and around the world. It happened with other groups before the Russians, as well as the Albanians afterwards.

As one former law enforcement official I've talked to said, during the 1990's there was lots of talk about the "Red Menance" of the Russian Mafia rising in the U.S. Time has shown that the powerful syndicates in Moscow limit their activity in the U.S. due to having a "healthy respect" for American law enforcement and intelligence services. Most of the Russian mosters here are your typical case of "diaspora gangsterism," many not having strong ties to Russia. Nevertheless, the Russians are still considered to be the largest domestic organized crime investigative priority for the FBI after La Cosa Nostra. They benefit from both their education level, which is often very high, as well as their white skin. This makes them more mobile in American society. You have various groups active throughout the U.S. but most are relatively small and fluid, not traditionally organized in the same hierarchial sense as the LCN.

The rise of Russian organized crime in the U.S. and around the globe has mirrored each other in the fact that in both cases they have allied themselves with the Italian syndicates almost from the very beginning. And they have always been considered a top threat because of their influence over one of the most powerful geo-political centers of the world. But as far as Russian organized crime in the U.S. goes, a good summary can be found in the link below -

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/218560.pdf

JohnnyRed · Unread post by **JohnnyRed** » October 23rd, 2008, 12:35 pm

Faciulina wrote:
"Italian organized crime in America is a pimple on a horse's ass compared with Russian organized crime in America—and globally,"

Poeple have differant opinions.. I do not live in America so I have less knowledge of what is going on there.. I want to know the basic truth of this sentence.. if there is any.. Fuciliana please do not comment here. I want comments from people who know what they are talking about..
i doubt this writer know what he is talking about the italian mafia in the states killed thousands of mobsters and even cops politicians businessmen and judges although in the past and not in these days... the russians never killed any cops or judges or anyone out of the underworld and i doubt it could do it today the fbi is ready to fight everyone if it fights the mafia that is the most powerful it can fight everyone and it has a by far major knowledge of organized crime than the past... i don't want to destroy your dreams but no other criminal groups will be even close to be powerful like la cosa nostra

Faciulina you cannot compare the Russian mafia to the United States of 2008 against the Italian mafia in Al Capone's era. The Italians killed prosectuors, cops, and judges when everyone was doing it. The Irish and Jews were doing the same thing back then. It was random at the time. Cops were going down like flies. The last politician to be killed by the Italians was in like what? the 50's? And the entire Bonnano family isolated him because he did it. You doubt this writer knows what he is talking about but look, he is a writer. He has studied the field.

"Italian organized crime has an unwritten rule that they don't go after cops. They don't go after prosecutors. They don't go after American journalists," the author says. "The Russians go after everybody. One retired cop in New York told me, 'They'll shoot you just to see if their gun works.'"

That was a quote from a New York cop.

JohnnyRed · Unread post by **JohnnyRed** » October 23rd, 2008, 12:40 pm

thewestside wrote:
VostokSila wrote:I was searching this online and found this article..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/07/ ... 7683.shtml

I started reading and this caught my attention right away..

"Italian organized crime in America is a pimple on a horse's ass compared with Russian organized crime in America—and globally,"

Poeple have differant opinions.. I do not live in America so I have less knowledge of what is going on there.. I want to know the basic truth of this sentence.. if there is any.. Fuciliana please do not comment here. I want comments from people who know what they are talking about..
I remember that article. I've said many times that the "new groups" tend to be overrated by both law enforcement and media personell when they first start receiving a lot of attention. And inevitably, they will say that the traditional Italian Mafia Families are nothing compared to whatever the new group is. This is a classic case of that, where Robert Friedman has written a few books on Russian organized crime. His comment above has proven to be a vast overstatement, both in the U.S. and around the world. It happened with other groups before the Russians, as well as the Albanians afterwards.

As one former law enforcement official I've talked to said, during the 1990's there was lots of talk about the "Red Menance" of the Russian Mafia rising in the U.S. Time has shown that the powerful syndicates in Moscow limit their activity in the U.S. due to having a "healthy respect" for American law enforcement and intelligence services. Most of the Russian mosters here are your typical case of "diaspora gangsterism," many not having strong ties to Russia. Nevertheless, the Russians are still considered to be the largest domestic organized crime investigative priority for the FBI after La Cosa Nostra. They benefit from both their education level, which is often very high, as well as their white skin. This makes them more mobile in American society. You have various groups active throughout the U.S. but most are relatively small and fluid, not traditionally organized in the same hierarchial sense as the LCN.

The rise of Russian organized crime in the U.S. and around the globe has mirrored each other in the fact that in both cases they have allied themselves with the Italian syndicates almost from the very beginning. And they have always been considered a top threat because of their influence over one of the most powerful geo-political centers of the world. But as far as Russian organized crime in the U.S. goes, a good summary can be found in the link below -

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/218560.pdf

Whoever the most powerful in America is as far as organized crime goes, the Italians or the Russians. I can say one thing, the Russians pose a greater DANGER. The Italians might be more powerful, rich and what not. But the Russians are a threat. The Italians do not supply nukes or arms the way the Russians do. They are not as ruthless. And they have a code that they follow which is pretty light and Americanized compared to the Russian way of crime. As John Gotti once said, "The Italians will kill you, but the Russians will kill you and your family".

Unread post by **thewestside** » October 23rd, 2008, 6:02 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:Whoever the most powerful in America is as far as organized crime goes, the Italians or the Russians. I can say one thing, the Russians pose a greater DANGER. The Italians might be more powerful, rich and what not. But the Russians are a threat. The Italians do not supply nukes or arms the way the Russians do. They are not as ruthless. And they have a code that they follow which is pretty light and Americanized compared to the Russian way of crime. As John Gotti once said, "The Italians will kill you, but the Russians will kill you and your family".

You tend to overrate the overall effect of how violent a group is, whether it be the Russians or Albanians. Yes, both tend to use violence more readily than the LCN here in the U.S., but that doesn't necessarily make them more of a threat. After all, the same thing could be said about MS-13 or any other violent street gang. Furthermore, while law enforcement has always considered the possibility of Russian organized crime supplying nuclear weapons to other groups, there is no hardcore evidence of that to date. Plenty of other weapons, yes, but no nukes.

Unread post by **Richboy17** » October 23rd, 2008, 7:15 pm

I heard that one supposbly hardcore Russian Mobster was having problems in a COUNTY jail, not even a penetentiary. He was afraid of getting beaten up by gangbangers and all this other shit.

Unread post by **VostokSila** » October 24th, 2008, 8:43 am

I dont think that there is a group that can match the Italians in power (=influence, control of certain markets and financial power).
Why? Time. The Italians enjoy 1 huge factor and that is time. No other group has the connections or entrenchment that italians have because they are all relativly new.
Russian maybe come close to them, but still.. the authoreties started noticing Russians in the late 80's and 90's. Time is what the Italians have over the Russians, and time is a lot of things.

JohnnyRed · Unread post by **JohnnyRed** » October 24th, 2008, 10:03 am

Richboy17 wrote:I heard that one supposbly hardcore Russian Mobster was having problems in a COUNTY jail, not even a penetentiary. He was afraid of getting beaten up by gangbangers and all this other shit.

That doesnt really mean anything though. I mean the Russian could have been the brains of his organization, not violent or tough at all. John Gotti got his ass beat in jail. But that doesnt mean Gotti wasent tough, he was just out fought, it happens.

Unread post by **thewestside** » October 24th, 2008, 11:17 am

VostokSila wrote:I dont think that there is a group that can match the Italians in power (=influence, control of certain markets and financial power).
Why? Time. The Italians enjoy 1 huge factor and that is time. No other group has the connections or entrenchment that italians have because they are all relativly new.
Russian maybe come close to them, but still.. the authoreties started noticing Russians in the late 80's and 90's. Time is what the Italians have over the Russians, and time is a lot of things.

That's pretty much it in nutshell. Not only have the Italians been here for much longer than other groups, they had about half a century to become entrenched before American law enforcement really started going after them. The newer groups today don't have that luxury. Also, there were other elements (Prohibition, the labor movement, corrupt political machines, etc.) that enabled La Cosa Nostra to become as powerful as it did. Furthermore, Italian organized crime is built on tradition that perpetuates itself from one generation to the next. The Irish and Jews were in the U.S. before the Italians were but faded away long ago because they weren't built on that same criminal tradition. And many other groups that came after the Italians also lack the longetivity of the LCN because they also don't have that same tradition.

Unread post by **Richboy17** » October 24th, 2008, 12:05 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Richboy17 wrote:I heard that one supposbly hardcore Russian Mobster was having problems in a COUNTY jail, not even a penetentiary. He was afraid of getting beaten up by gangbangers and all this other shit.

That doesnt really mean anything though. I mean the Russian could have been the brains of his organization, not violent or tough at all. John Gotti got his ass beat in jail. But that doesnt mean Gotti wasent tough, he was just out fought, it happens.

Yah but Gotti was like 60 years old and even when he was outnumbered he still talked shit. He the balls to not even pay AB protection money until the AB payed some Black dude to beat up Gotti. I could understand if somebody was just some low life down ass white boy getting punked in County, but come on this guy is a Russian mobster who killed people. I know anybody could get it in jail, but this was just ridiculous, this mutherfucker was complain about the jail beds, like come on it is JAIL of course its gonna be shit.

Unread post by **thewestside** » October 24th, 2008, 2:28 pm

Richboy17 wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:
Richboy17 wrote:I heard that one supposbly hardcore Russian Mobster was having problems in a COUNTY jail, not even a penetentiary. He was afraid of getting beaten up by gangbangers and all this other shit.

That doesnt really mean anything though. I mean the Russian could have been the brains of his organization, not violent or tough at all. John Gotti got his ass beat in jail. But that doesnt mean Gotti wasent tough, he was just out fought, it happens.
Yah but Gotti was like 60 years old and even when he was outnumbered he still talked shit. He the balls to not even pay AB protection money until the AB payed some Black dude to beat up Gotti. I could understand if somebody was just some low life down ass white boy getting punked in County, but come on this guy is a Russian mobster who killed people. I know anybody could get it in jail, but this was just ridiculous, this mutherfucker was complain about the jail beds, like come on it is JAIL of course its gonna be shit.

You can't really judge an entire group one one criminal or incident. They may be outnumbered in American prisons but Russian mobsters are known for being extremely tough and the guy you're describing above doesn't sound like your typical Russian mobster. The prisons many of them have been in back in Russia are far worse than anything here in the U.S.

A well known former law enforcement official in New York told the story one time of how they arrested one Russian mobster back in the 1990's when they were really on the rise. They tried to interrogate him but were getting nothing and they told him he would likely be going to a harsh prison. He responded by pulling one of his pant legs up and showing them his deformed leg, which he had received by being tortured by prison officials in Russia. He said "You're going to do worse to me?"

Unread post by **Richboy17** » October 24th, 2008, 4:39 pm

You can't really judge an entire group one one criminal or incident. They may be outnumbered in American prisons but Russian mobsters are known for being extremely tough and the guy you're describing above doesn't sound like your typical Russian mobster. The prisons many of them have been in back in Russia are far worse than anything here in the U.S.

A well known former law enforcement official in New York told the story one time of how they arrested one Russian mobster back in the 1990's when they were really on the rise. They tried to interrogate him but were getting nothing and they told him he would likely be going to a harsh prison. He responded by pulling one of his pant legs up and showing them his deformed leg, which he had received by being tortured by prison officials in Russia. He said "You're going to do worse to me?"[/quote]

Well this Russian mobster didnt look so tough, but i heard of many Russian criminals in the US were from Russian prisons or camps and it was supposed be hundred times worser than Pelican Bay, Rikers Island, or any tough prisons in America.

JohnnyRed · Unread post by **JohnnyRed** » October 25th, 2008, 12:20 pm

Well this Russian mobster didnt look so tough, but i heard of many Russian criminals in the US were from Russian prisons or camps and it was supposed be hundred times worser than Pelican Bay, Rikers Island, or any tough prisons in America.

Of course Russian prisons are worse. They Russian government is worse thats why. In America, it would be headline news for two years if an inmate was treated the way they are treated in Russia and we would have protests on the streets and everything. Freaking stupid country...

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » October 26th, 2008, 7:17 pm

JohnnyRed wrote:
Well this Russian mobster didnt look so tough, but i heard of many Russian criminals in the US were from Russian prisons or camps and it was supposed be hundred times worser than Pelican Bay, Rikers Island, or any tough prisons in America.
Of course Russian prisons are worse. They Russian government is worse thats why. In America, it would be headline news for two years if an inmate was treated the way they are treated in Russia and we would have protests on the streets and everything. Freaking stupid country...

No shit.

But...you live in Toronto. Unless you're at your cousin's house atm???

AlbaniaUnited · Unread post by **AlbaniaUnited** » October 27th, 2008, 9:38 am

razbojnik wrote:
JohnnyRed wrote:
Well this Russian mobster didnt look so tough, but i heard of many Russian criminals in the US were from Russian prisons or camps and it was supposed be hundred times worser than Pelican Bay, Rikers Island, or any tough prisons in America.
Of course Russian prisons are worse. They Russian government is worse thats why. In America, it would be headline news for two years if an inmate was treated the way they are treated in Russia and we would have protests on the streets and everything. Freaking stupid country...
No shit.

But...you live in Toronto. Unless you're at your cousin's house atm???

Maybe I am, maybe I am not. Maybe Teekay has a tendancy for BS. Whne are you coing to Toronto?

Unread post by **Richboy17** » October 27th, 2008, 4:04 pm

WTF just happened?

AlbaniaUnited · Unread post by **AlbaniaUnited** » October 27th, 2008, 4:05 pm

Richboy17 wrote:WTF just happened?

What do you mean?

Unread post by **TeeKay** » October 27th, 2008, 6:18 pm

Nope,only one here spilling BS is you Johnny.

Unread post by **VostokSila** » October 28th, 2008, 9:50 am

razbojnik and AlbaniaUnited (Johnny), plz dont make this thread an internet fight between you.

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » October 28th, 2008, 12:52 pm

VostokSila wrote:razbojnik and AlbaniaUnited (Johnny), plz dont make this thread an internet fight between you.

LOL you notice every thread a person has made since Johnny's arrival on this forum in the organized crime section he always posts something about the Albanian mafia, even if the subject wasn't about the Albanian mafia.

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » October 28th, 2008, 12:55 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:Maybe I am, maybe I am not. Maybe Teekay has a tendancy for BS. Whne are you coing to Toronto?

Don't worry, if you were in some shitty village in Albania I would've had an easier time wiping you out with the predator, but since you're in Toronto and North Americans have big mouths it won't be that easy.

And no idea, to be honest, I don't want to go over there, as of now I'm planning to stay till next Sept, my parents are pressuring me to come over there THIS YEAR but I'm how the fuck am I going to fly in the winter........

So...

Maybe March. Idk.

If and when I do, you'll be the first one to know, Johnny.

Johnny Red lol. Johnny Black. Hahaha...

I know this guy named Ico Black. He's...was..one of the toughest and biggest criminals in my town. My daddy defeated him in a one on one fight. Suck it.

AlbaniaUnited · Unread post by **AlbaniaUnited** » October 28th, 2008, 2:20 pm

VostokSila wrote:razbojnik and AlbaniaUnited (Johnny), plz dont make this thread an internet fight between you.

Dont mention my name up there. Your implying that I had something to do with going off task if you do that. Mention Raxbjonik as a dumb outcast if you want but dont involve me in his BS.

Rabjonik: You wont do shit bitch, even if u were here. Since your staying there I guess Ill come to Stip and explode the fuckin town. Might as well do something good for society while im there

Russian mafia....

Unread post by **thewestside** » October 28th, 2008, 7:24 pm

razbojnik wrote:LOL you notice every thread a person has made since Johnny's arrival on this forum in the organized crime section he always posts something about the Albanian mafia, even if the subject wasn't about the Albanian mafia.

Yes, I've noticed it. And so has everyone else here. JohnnyRed/AlbaniaUnited isn't really interested in organized crime per se. He's really only interested in Albanian organized crime and makes sure to mention it, even if it's not the topic of discussion. And why does he do this? Because he wants to make sure everyone gives Albanian criminals their due. It's a matter of honor with Johnny/Albania and, as he has said himself, it pisses him off when others "downsize" the criminals from his country.

Unread post by **TeeKay** » October 28th, 2008, 7:48 pm

Yeah but Johnny's done it to the point where the albanian discussion has just been done to death,even when he can't bring up anything else non-related to Rudaj or the Albanian mafia,he finds a way to just bring it up lol.

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » October 29th, 2008, 4:57 pm

TeeKay wrote:Yeah but Johnny's done it to the point where the albanian discussion has just been done to death,even when he can't bring up anything else non-related to Rudaj or the Albanian mafia,he finds a way to just bring it up lol.

He's great at pulling out articles on the Albanian mob out of his ass.

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » October 29th, 2008, 4:58 pm

AlbaniaUnited wrote:
VostokSila wrote:razbojnik and AlbaniaUnited (Johnny), plz dont make this thread an internet fight between you.

Dont mention my name up there. Your implying that I had something to do with going off task if you do that. Mention Raxbjonik as a dumb outcast if you want but dont involve me in his BS.

Rabjonik: You wont do shit bitch, even if u were here. Since your staying there I guess Ill come to Stip and explode the fuckin town. Might as well do something good for society while im there

Russian mafia....

We'll see motherfucker come to this town I'll hang you on my fucking grapevine you'll be like a scarecrow or something, or we could duel it out on the CN tower???

Unread post by **punamusta** » October 30th, 2008, 8:53 am

I know that some Russian organization is involved with the movie business in USA. Easy way to launder money...

Unread post by **punamusta** » October 30th, 2008, 8:57 am

And I have way more respect towards Russians than Albanians based on my experiences of both groups of people. I would have a funny story about Albanians that I met last weekend, but I don't wan't to start a hell of an argument.... ;)

razbojnik · Unread post by **razbojnik** » November 1st, 2008, 8:19 pm

punamusta wrote:And I have way more respect towards Russians than Albanians based on my experiences of both groups of people. I would have a funny story about Albanians that I met last weekend, but I don't wan't to start a hell of an argument....

PLEASE, tell us the story.

Unread post by **thewestside** » November 1st, 2008, 9:16 pm

punamusta wrote:I know that some Russian organization is involved with the movie business in USA. Easy way to launder money...

I've never heard that. Any additional information?

Unread post by **punamusta** » November 2nd, 2008, 7:44 am

thewestside wrote:
punamusta wrote:I know that some Russian organization is involved with the movie business in USA. Easy way to launder money...
I've never heard that. Any additional information?

I heard it from a guy who has been working with two mainstream movies in USA during the past few years. Seems like it's pretty common there that foreign mafias launder money via movie productions.

razbojnik wrote:
punamusta wrote:And I have way more respect towards Russians than Albanians based on my experiences of both groups of people. I would have a funny story about Albanians that I met last weekend, but I don't wan't to start a hell of an argument....
PLEASE, tell us the story.

Hahah, yeah okay. But I tell this only to put an end to the talks that some nationalities are full of hardcore people. There is differences between each individuals, and to assume that all people coming from certain nations are tougher than anyone else is straight BS.

So I was with my girlfriend at this pizza place as I saw four Albanian guys looking at my girl, talking something on their own language, laughing, glancing at me, etc. That went on for a while and it started to feel very disrespectful. I was already on a bad mood and a bit drunk, too. So after we got our pizzas to go, I told my girl to go to the bus stop, and wait me there. Then I took a fork from the pizza place, went outside where those guys now where smoking cigarrets, and pushed that fork on the biggest guy's throat. Only hard enough to let him really feel the fork on his throat, but not actually penetrate his throat. That guy went all pale his eyes rolling around, holding his hands up like he would be pointed with a gun. He didn't say a word, and neither did his friends. They all freezed completelly. I said something for them, and left. None of them shouted anything at me as I walked away, they were just all silent and shooked.

I don't want you to think that I told this to boost myself here, but to point out that hardness is individualistic. And that a LOT of guys act like they'd be hard, but in the reality they are the ones that fear the most. And those kind of people can be found among every nationalities, just as there is tough guys among every nationalities.

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