Gomorrah

American organized crime groups included traditional groups such as La Cosa Nostra & the Italian Mafia to modern groups such as Black Mafia Family. Discuss the most organized criminal groups in the United States including gangs in Canada.
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mayugastank
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Gomorrah

Unread post by mayugastank » March 16th, 2011, 7:08 pm

Seen the movie for the 2nd time and was--questioning its validity.

(1)Some things that seemed never discussed amongst mafia clans before in Italy or America,for instance the recruitment of young Italian boys to join as full members at ages as young as 14.
(2) The difference in initation ceremonys between Cosa Nostra and Camorra-where you are shot in the chest by wearing a bulletproof vest.
(3) The vast racism depicted against Africans
(4) The extreme cultural differences in Italians as Europeans against the rest of Europes Europeans.........the peoples customs/lives and culture resemble much more of a Latin American country then England/Ireland/France/Norway etc....
(5) The ongoing constant running battles and feuds between clans much like in Mexico now.
(6) The greaseball attire spoken about so much by Italian American gangsters in USA.

Anyone shed any light on the films accuracy or anything Ive mentioned? Anyone who has seen the movie also review it.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by mayugastank » March 16th, 2011, 7:10 pm

Also the similarities in the Italian language against the spanish language is striking..........I nearly understood EVERYTHING they were saying without any sort of translation. The language is very very close.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by cliffard » March 16th, 2011, 7:36 pm

mayuga italian and spanish are both romance languages ie they both derived from the latin language spoken initially by the romans and then by the catholic church, italy and spain have strong links as strongly catholic countries geographically close to each other, english is a germanic language, however it also shows a great deal of influence from latin as for thousand years or more thats what the educated people spoke here too, hence words that look similar across all three languages....obviously it will be much more marked between italian and spanish though

italians have been racist since hannibal came up through with his armies and elephants, and left a lot of them with dark skin and kinky hair for generations afterwards, they didnt have an empire or colonies (after rome) like us or the french did, so black or muslim (especially muslim!) italians are much much rarer than black or muslim brits or french, plus being muslim in the home of the catholic church doesnt play well, we allow mosques built over here, so do the french, the italians will die before their country gets smashed with mosques....

what you said about the latin culture, yeah it does exist, the northern european countries are a bit more similar, usually protestant as well, whereas the southern european countries are catholic, latin countries are renowned as having quicker tempers, more demonstrative and open than the more reserved northern europeans, dont believe it too much, come out on a friday night in the uk or ireland, its only the rich fuckers over here that are uptight and look like theyre suckin a lemon, the rest of us know how to throw a party....

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by thewestside » March 16th, 2011, 10:11 pm

Back in 2009, Camorra gunmen killed several Nigerian immigrants. The attack stemmed from disputes over the local drug trade. And the infighting among Camorra clans is well known.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by mayugastank » March 17th, 2011, 1:09 am

thanks cliffard

Does anyone else know about any mafia movies similar to Gomorrah? this movie really touched on the Italian people as a whole and how the culture and influence of the mafia is reserved to ghettos and areas of poverty for young Italian boys. The ages of made members in Italy is what really struck me-they would formally initiate children as soldiers in crews kids as young as 14. I also noticed the extreme similarites in Architecture amongst the citys in the film and the citys throughout Latin America. The look of the people would not be what anyone in this country would consider "white". They are almost identical to the people of Latin America/Colombia/Brazil/Venezuela and the shores of Mexico. The boccoli' playing of cards amongst the women/the hair/the music/ the language.The way even the grocery stores looked is exactly as Ive seen in my visits to latin America. The invasion of foreigners into Italy seemed to be a very sore subjetc for the film and one that was touched on not to lightly........do you know why Italians migrate from Italy? they seem to have a very deep dispora all thru the world. Another thing that struck me is my review of the corsican mafia and how in actuality the people of Corsica are Italians and not French.......seems like anywhere they are the Italian people are joined at the hip with clans and mafias......and doesnt seem like any other people really anywhere have such a history.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by ViciousRidah » March 17th, 2011, 9:46 am

cliffard wrote:
italians have been racist since hannibal came up through with his armies and elephants, and left a lot of them with dark skin and kinky hair for generations afterwards, they didnt have an empire or colonies (after rome) like us or the french did, so black or muslim (especially muslim!) italians are much much rarer than black or muslim brits or french, plus being muslim in the home of the catholic church doesnt play well, we allow mosques built over here, so do the french, the italians will die before their country gets smashed with mosques....
Italians actual did have colonies . Eritrea,Libya,and a part of Somalia was actually under Italian control.

Also the Italians did also did retain some sort of power since after the fall of the Roman Empire, many of them presided over the Catholic church as Popes and Clergy,which greatly influenced many of the KIngs,Earls, and Dukes of medieval principalities. The Holy Roman Empire in Germany and Carolingians of France were very much influenced by the Catholic Church . The Catholic Church a remnant of the Roman Empire was still very wealthy.
cliffard wrote: whereas the southern european countries are catholic,
Which Southern Europe are you referring to the Balkans?Cause then they would be Muslim and Eastern Orthodox before they are Catholic.


thewestside wrote:Back in 2009, Camorra gunmen killed several Nigerian immigrants. The attack stemmed from disputes over the local drug trade. And the infighting among Camorra clans is well known.
I was watching something about this couple years ago on a documentary, there was a war between Nigerians and Italians in an Italian town , to my surprise. It was all about how Nigerians first came as mules and smugglers, but when they reached the town the remained stranded and got involved in some kind of criminal activity that threatened the Mafiosos position in the town.I wonder if the Italian gangsters chased the Nigerians out since they threatened their business?The Nigerians actually did hold up well for some time, considering they went against Italians mafiosos.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by thewestside » March 17th, 2011, 10:27 pm

ViciousRidah wrote:I was watching something about this couple years ago on a documentary, there was a war between Nigerians and Italians in an Italian town , to my surprise. It was all about how Nigerians first came as mules and smugglers, but when they reached the town the remained stranded and got involved in some kind of criminal activity that threatened the Mafiosos position in the town.I wonder if the Italian gangsters chased the Nigerians out since they threatened their business?The Nigerians actually did hold up well for some time, considering they went against Italians mafiosos.
It was basically a case of the Nigerians trying to operate independently of the Camorra in the latter's territory and/or not paying tribute for the right to engage in the drug trade. I'm not sure how much of a "war" actually took place. There was a lot of racial tension between the Italians and blacks in a more general sense, some of it ending in rioting. But the only organized crime related violence that I remember reading about is the incident I mentioned - Camorra gunmen dressed up as police officers, pulled up in a police-type car, and opened fire, killing 6 blacks who were actually from Ghana.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by RDRIGN » March 18th, 2011, 3:29 am

mayugastank wrote:thanks cliffard

Does anyone else know about any mafia movies similar to Gomorrah? this movie really touched on the Italian people as a whole and how the culture and influence of the mafia is reserved to ghettos and areas of poverty for young Italian boys. The ages of made members in Italy is what really struck me-they would formally initiate children as soldiers in crews kids as young as 14. I also noticed the extreme similarites in Architecture amongst the citys in the film and the citys throughout Latin America. The look of the people would not be what anyone in this country would consider "white". They are almost identical to the people of Latin America/Colombia/Brazil/Venezuela and the shores of Mexico. The boccoli' playing of cards amongst the women/the hair/the music/ the language.The way even the grocery stores looked is exactly as Ive seen in my visits to latin America. The invasion of foreigners into Italy seemed to be a very sore subjetc for the film and one that was touched on not to lightly........do you know why Italians migrate from Italy? they seem to have a very deep dispora all thru the world. Another thing that struck me is my review of the corsican mafia and how in actuality the people of Corsica are Italians and not French.......seems like anywhere they are the Italian people are joined at the hip with clans and mafias......and doesnt seem like any other people really anywhere have such a history.
I saw one a while back where some mobsters kill some black immigrants and it also showed the city's problem with heroin addiction, don't remember much since it was years ago. I do agree with you that Italians don't really look or have that "white" culture or society, they have a lot more in common with Latin American countries like Mexico, Brazil or Colombia from what I've seen. From the buildings to the culture, it's almost like Latin America in Europe. Anyone have other documentaries similar to the one I saw? Links?

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by mayugastank » March 18th, 2011, 4:47 am

RDRIGN-

there is a few the Sicilian Girl is a good movie.....it shows alot of how life in Italy is.......also the movie Gomorrah..........which is being discussed in this topic here......these movies really give you a feel of the land as it is . Anyone who wonders why Italians had a hard go in America can take a look at these movies and see much more of a latin american people then a European white one......the architecture in Italy and the layout of the streets and the look of the people is NOTHING at all of what one would consider European. These movies show real in depth the life of the Italian people in their own countries---they have a diet/cuisine/speech that resembles Spain-----really and not Latin America. Latin America would actually resemble Italy and not the other way around since the Italian culture is alot older then modern Latin Americas. The term used to describe the peoples of Italy/Spain/Southern France/Southern Romanian/Some Greek is a term used "Iberian". It identifies the people of this land as a unique culture removed from Europe and European people. The Iberian actually considered Irish/Welsh/German/English as dry...without scruples and less then human. So it shows you ----just how different the people of Europe were......when people speak of cultured Europe they are actually describing the Iberians. Napoleon was Iberian.....as well as Sophia/Columbus/and all the famous conquistadors.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by Faciulina » March 18th, 2011, 9:04 pm

I do agree with you that Italians don't really look or have that "white" culture or society, they have a lot more in common with Latin American countries like Mexico, Brazil or Colombia from what I've seen
you should do a difference between north and south italy anyway, southern italians are very similar to latin americans northern italians are europeans

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by cliffard » March 18th, 2011, 9:07 pm

v/r forgive me you are correct, the italians did have colonies, and fought some vicious wars in ethiopia to extend them, the emperor of ethiopia made a famous speech to the league of nations (forerunner to the UN) in 1936, but snidey behaviour between the british and the french delegate ensured that he didnt get his country back till after the war, sorry im wandering off the point a bit here, what i meant to say was the italians never had the overseas empire that britain and france had, at the height of the british empire it covered 1/4 of the earths landmass, france held large parts of africa also and what was then called indo china (thailand vietnam etc), obviously in those times england and france were equally as if not more racist than the italians, however when those empires collapsed and many citizens of the old colonial countries moved to the 'motherland(!)' it became common to see non white englishmen and frenchmen, italy has never gone through this stage...

as for the roman empire im not sure that you can draw a line straight from the roman empire through the catholic church to the holy roman empire, one of the things historians said about the holy roman empire is 'it was neither holy, roman, or an empire', you can argue the toss about that, the roman empire in the west fell apart after about the 4th/5th century ad, the eastern roman empire which became byzantium was stronger and held on for another nearly thousand years, it would probably be easier to draw an unbroken line from the conversion of the roman empire to christianity under constantine to eastern orthodox christianity

and yeah, youre right to correct me there, i wasnt thinking of the balkans, i was thinking of spain/italy/france/portugal, south western europe rather than south eastern europe and the balkans....

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by ViciousRidah » March 19th, 2011, 1:47 am

cliffard wrote:v/r forgive me you are correct, the italians did have colonies, and fought some vicious wars in ethiopia to extend them, the emperor of ethiopia made a famous speech to the league of nations (forerunner to the UN) in 1936, but snidey behaviour between the british and the french delegate ensured that he didnt get his country back till after the war, sorry im wandering off the point a bit here, what i meant to say was the italians never had the overseas empire that britain and france had, at the height of the british empire it covered 1/4 of the earths landmass, france held large parts of africa also and what was then called indo china (thailand vietnam etc), obviously in those times england and france were equally as if not more racist than the italians, however when those empires collapsed and many citizens of the old colonial countries moved to the 'motherland(!)' it became common to see non white englishmen and frenchmen, italy has never gone through this stage...

as for the roman empire im not sure that you can draw a line straight from the roman empire through the catholic church to the holy roman empire, one of the things historians said about the holy roman empire is 'it was neither holy, roman, or an empire', you can argue the toss about that, the roman empire in the west fell apart after about the 4th/5th century ad, the eastern roman empire which became byzantium was stronger and held on for another nearly thousand years, it would probably be easier to draw an unbroken line from the conversion of the roman empire to christianity under constantine to eastern orthodox christianity

and yeah, youre right to correct me there, i wasnt thinking of the balkans, i was thinking of spain/italy/france/portugal, south western europe rather than south eastern europe and the balkans....
Yea I hear what your saying, but I think the Italians were very much racist against blacks, as soon as Mussolini's regime catapulted Italy into far right wingist, they specifically targeted Ethiopia for invasion and reattempted to colonize it, it played no strategic role in WWII what so ever and was very costly, for Italy,but they still had a vendetta.

And you have a point about the archaic components of the Roman Empire, to the Catholic Church ,to the Holy Roman Empire.

But I don't think you see my point, Italy for most Part had been Papal states during the Middle Ages compared to the rest of Europe who in sum total system of government were kingdoms,principalities,and fiefdoms. In other words Europe was ruled in monarchy , the point I was trying to make was that each king of Europe at one point was ordained or blessed by the church to come into power, sometime you could not come into power with out the Pope's blessings.Charlemagne and Ferndinand II were some kings who were blessed by the Pope. The Holy Roman Empire kings like Otto I was also blessed by the Pope in order to come into power.Of course this was not a prerequisite but this did really emphasize your validity into power.

The church also sometimes played a role in mediating issues between royalty and nobility, it was also very responsible for the funding of the Crusades.That was my point.

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Re: Gomorrah

Unread post by cliffard » March 25th, 2011, 5:05 pm

ViciousRidah wrote: Yea I hear what your saying, but I think the Italians were very much racist against blacks, as soon as Mussolini's regime catapulted Italy into far right wingist, they specifically targeted Ethiopia for invasion and reattempted to colonize it, it played no strategic role in WWII what so ever and was very costly, for Italy,but they still had a vendetta.

And you have a point about the archaic components of the Roman Empire, to the Catholic Church ,to the Holy Roman Empire.

But I don't think you see my point, Italy for most Part had been Papal states during the Middle Ages compared to the rest of Europe who in sum total system of government were kingdoms,principalities,and fiefdoms. In other words Europe was ruled in monarchy , the point I was trying to make was that each king of Europe at one point was ordained or blessed by the church to come into power, sometime you could not come into power with out the Pope's blessings.Charlemagne and Ferndinand II were some kings who were blessed by the Pope. The Holy Roman Empire kings like Otto I was also blessed by the Pope in order to come into power.Of course this was not a prerequisite but this did really emphasize your validity into power.

The church also sometimes played a role in mediating issues between royalty and nobility, it was also very responsible for the funding of the Crusades.That was my point.
absolutely, we, the english were the first to say fuck that and mean it - people had tried in the past, but the pope had always got the upper hand until henry viii couldnt get a divorce and decided to break away from the church of rome and set up the church of england, obviously it tied in to a lot of anti papist/anti clerical feeling (martin luther etc.), they were protesting, hence the protestants...it caused us no end of problems, the catholic church blessed the spanish armada to go and invade england, guy fawkes was a catholic, bonnie prince charlie etc etc, it took a good couple of hundred years before the pope accepted it, pretty much the whole of europe was against the english at one point, shows how much power the popes had...

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