Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

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Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by E-b.o.n.e. » April 24th, 2004, 12:41 pm

that homie had skills back in the days. Go and ask Sonny Liston, George Foreman,.....The list goes on & on, lol.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Impala » April 24th, 2004, 2:12 pm

Ali was and will always be the "GREATEST"


...just my humble opinion.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » April 24th, 2004, 7:19 pm

Agree. But it's sad how long he stayed in when he should of retired after the 3rd remacth with Joe Frazier.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by stateraised2000 » April 24th, 2004, 7:54 pm

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. (Career Record) (born January 17, 1942), better known as Muhammad Ali, is an American boxer. He is one of the world's greatest heavyweight boxers, as well as one of the world's most famous individuals, renowned the world over for his boxing and political activism.

Clay was born in Louisville, Kentucky.

He turned professional under the tutelage of boxing legend Angelo Dundee, and quickly became famous for his unorthodox style, his spectacular results, and his tireless self-promotion. He made a name for himself as the "Louisville Lip" by composing poems predicting in which round he would knock his opponent out. He boisterously sang his own praises, with sayings like "I am the greatest" and "I'm young, I'm pretty, and I can't possibly be beat."

In Louisville on October 29, 1960 Cassius Clay won his first professional fight.

In 1964, Clay managed to get himself an opportunity to fight heavyweight champion Sonny Liston. He stunned the world by upsetting the heavy favorite Liston, who refused to leave his corner for the eighth round, claiming he had injured his shoulder. Clay was duly crowned the heavyweight champion of the world. He would confirm his abilities in 1965, when he knocked Liston out in the first round of their rematch, albeit controversially as few observers saw the "phantom punch" that floored Liston

In between the two matches, he also became famous for other reasons: he joined the Nation of Islam, and changed his name to Muhammad Ali. In 1966, he refused to serve in the American army in the Vietnam War as a conscientious objector, famously saying that he "got nothing against no Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a nigger." He was stripped of his championship belt and his license to box, and sentenced to five years in prison (this was overturned on appeal three years later).

In 1970, granted a license to box once more, he began a comeback, but suffered a setback when he lost his 1971 title fight, a bruising 15 round encounter with Joe Frazier at Madison Square Garden. He split two bouts with Ken Norton before beating Frazier on points in 1974 to earn another title shot.

The incumbent, George Foreman, was a large, hard-hitting, undefeated young fighter who had previously demolished Frazier, KO'ing him in the second round of their championship fight, and was the heavy favorite. The fight was held in Zaire and promoted by Don King as "The Rumble in The Jungle." In the October 30, 1974 bout that would cement his reputation as "The Greatest", Ali boxed his best tactical fight. Leading with his "wrong" hand and playing "rope-a-dope" by leaning far back on the ropes (that had supposedly been loosened by Dundee), Ali absorbed everything Foreman could throw at him, whilst only occasionally throwing counter punches. By the end of the sixth round, Foreman had punched himself out and Ali was able to attack a little more. Foreman kept advancing, but his blows were much less effective and near the end of the eighth, Ali's right hand finally sent the exhausted Foreman to the floor. As a result of this fight, he was awarded the 1974 Hickok Belt as top professional athlete of the year and Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year" award.

In 1975, Ali defeated Joe Frazier once more in the Thrilla In Manila in the Philippines. Along with the "Rumble", his fights with Frazier are widely considered among the greatest in boxing history.

He would retain his title until a 1978 loss to Leon Spinks. He defeated Spinks in a rematch, becoming the heavyweight champion for the record third time. He vacated the title and retired.

That retirement was short-lived, however, and on October 2, 1980, he challenged Larry Holmes for the WBC's version of the world Heavyweight title. Looking to set another record, as the first boxer to win the Heavyweight title four times, he lost by technical knockout in round eleven, when Dundee would not let him come out for the round. The Holmes fight, promoted as The Last Hurrah, was a fight many fans and experts view with disdain, because of what many viewed as a "deteriorated version" of Ali. Holmes was Ali's sparring partner when Holmes was a budding fighter and because of that, some viewed the result of the fight as a symbolic "passing of the torch".

Ali retired permanently in 1981 with a career record of 56 wins, 37 by knockout, against 5 losses.

Ali had a highly unorthodox style for a heavyweight boxer. He carried his hands at his sides rather than the orthodox boxing style of carrying the hands high to defend the face. Instead, he relied on his extraordinary reflexes and reach to keep him away from his opponents' blows. Ali punched to the head much more than most boxers--a high-risk strategy since over the duration of a long fight punches to the body can be much more effective in tiring an opponent out.

A friend of Malcolm X's, Clay converted to Islam, joining the Nation of Islam. Though both he and Malcolm eventually parted ways with the Nation of Islam, he remained a vocal and eloquent advocate on black civil rights issues. The English journalist Tony Parsons described him as a hero because "no white man could look at him or listen to him and feel superior".

He was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease in 1982, following which his motor functions began a slow decline. Despite this, he remains a hero to millions around the world. In 1985, he was called on to negotiate for the release of kidnapped Americans in Lebanon; in 1996, to light the Olympic flame in Atlanta, Georgia. At the same Olympics, Ali was also presented with a replacement gold medal. He had thrown the previous one, won in 1960, in the Ohio River after he had been refused service in a restaurant because of his race.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by E-b.o.n.e. » April 25th, 2004, 7:10 am

sup state

Thanx fo the info!

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » April 25th, 2004, 9:22 am

I dont think there would be a heavy weight fighter who would ever be called the greatest of all time. Reason being back then there were so many great fighters in the heavy weight division. And most of them fighters in there prime would beat all the ones who came after them. You will never see so much talent in the heavy weight division like that again. Only good ones since then was Tyson, Hollyfeild, Lewis, Bowe that stand out. And out of them Tyson would be the one who can hold his own better then the rest, If he was fighting back then and maybe Leiws. Anybody agree?

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by mr 503 » April 26th, 2004, 12:44 am

YEA I THINK ALI WAS THE BEST HEAVY WEIGHT. BUT WHAT ABOUT JOE LOUIS. HE WAS A COLD AZZ FIGHTER TOO

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by wcrockets » April 26th, 2004, 11:10 am

Ali was marvelous.. fantastic! But I'd give the nod to Joe Louis for all time. Peace.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by juniorx » April 27th, 2004, 6:31 pm

i dun understand this was and ALWAYS will be the greatest stuff.. who is u homie?.. God..? pleeze.. cant Compare todays Boxers with old school boxers.. Styles is different Training is different.. Totally different Era.. Clay to me is Considered the best Boxer of hes Time.. u couldnt tell who out of todays Boxers would win against the boxers of back then.. there is no way to Prove or check this.. Just accept that Clay was the best.. and will Obviously be one of the GREATS.. but not necessarily the greatest.. that cant be Determined.. EVER !..

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Past » April 27th, 2004, 7:28 pm

JuniorX wrote:i dun understand this was and ALWAYS will be the greatest stuff.. who is u homie?.. God..? pleeze.. cant Compare todays Boxers with old school boxers.. Styles is different Training is different.. Totally different Era.. Clay to me is Considered the best Boxer of hes Time.. u couldnt tell who out of todays Boxers would win against the boxers of back then.. there is no way to Prove or check this.. Just accept that Clay was the best.. and will Obviously be one of the GREATS.. but not necessarily the greatest.. that cant be Determined.. EVER !..
I agree

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 6th, 2004, 2:28 pm

That generations...every adult around during his time....idolized him and are the ones in power..politicians, marketing/TV/magazine executives etc., today. They marketed him as the greatest since he was the first to win the belt 3X and exhibited skills that noone else did.

I think every generation had "THEIR" greatest (Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis etc.). Ali transcends all the others because of what he went through (politically, racial divide, etc.) and the fact that he was one helluva boxer....He outsmarted and manipulated those physically better then him and dominated all the others. I agree with Junior X...you can not compare generations.

My generations has had 2 (well 3) dominate heavyweights.....Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, and ???Lennox Lewis. I could have added Holyfield and Bowe to that but they to me did not dominate the division.

Ali will always be labeled the greatest because he was around at the right time winning!

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 6th, 2004, 4:45 pm

Conman wrote:That generations...every adult around during his time....idolized him and are the ones in power..politicians, marketing/TV/magazine executives etc., today. They marketed him as the greatest since he was the first to win the belt 3X and exhibited skills that noone else did.

I think every generation had "THEIR" greatest (Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis etc.). Ali transcends all the others because of what he went through (politically, racial divide, etc.) and the fact that he was one helluva boxer....He outsmarted and manipulated those physically better then him and dominated all the others. I agree with Junior X...you can not compare generations.

My generations has had 2 (well 3) dominate heavyweights.....Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, and ???Lennox Lewis. I could have added Holyfield and Bowe to that but they to me did not dominate the division.

Ali will always be labeled the greatest because he was around at the right time winning!
I agree with you. Ali is name the greatest not because of boxing it was also what he did out side of the ring that makes him the greatest. Nobody can match that and doubt anybody will.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by juniorx » May 6th, 2004, 7:47 pm

Conman im straight up with u on that.. he was the greatest not just becoz of hes Boxing skills but everything else he went through and stood up for.. but for Boxing generations will never be comparable

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by NYorker » May 8th, 2004, 9:31 am

If Roy Jones stayed at heavyweight...he would be the greatest heavyweight of all time. RJJ has skills and power and I think he'd beat most of the heavyweights out there now.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 8th, 2004, 1:22 pm

NYorker wrote:If Roy Jones stayed at heavyweight...he would be the greatest heavyweight of all time. RJJ has skills and power and I think he'd beat most of the heavyweights out there now.
Roy Jone is the best fighter pound for pound but I don't think he would become the greatest heavyweight. 2 reasons first there are no heavy weights left to make him become the greatest same thing happen to Lewis. And second, Roy is not in his prime.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 10th, 2004, 1:36 pm

blkjoker wrote:
NYorker wrote:If Roy Jones stayed at heavyweight...he would be the greatest heavyweight of all time. RJJ has skills and power and I think he'd beat most of the heavyweights out there now.
Roy Jone is the best fighter pound for pound but I don't think he would become the greatest heavyweight. 2 reasons first there are no heavy weights left to make him become the greatest same thing happen to Lewis. And second, Roy is not in his prime.
^^

Roy is NOT a real heavyweight. Roy is a great boxer, and manipulator, but he is not and would not be a great heavyweight. Roy could have never beat the Tyson of old, the Holyfield of old, the Lewis of old, etc. etc. Roy knew exactly when it was time to move up to the heavy's (Mike is unfocused and exposed, Lewis is old and exposed, Klitchkos have glass jaws), I mean he is pound for pound the best because he is the smartest out there. He has already left his mark and will definitely have his place in history, but noway would he have been the greatest heavyweight.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 11th, 2004, 4:01 pm

Conman wrote:
blkjoker wrote:
NYorker wrote:If Roy Jones stayed at heavyweight...he would be the greatest heavyweight of all time. RJJ has skills and power and I think he'd beat most of the heavyweights out there now.
Roy Jone is the best fighter pound for pound but I don't think he would become the greatest heavyweight. 2 reasons first there are no heavy weights left to make him become the greatest same thing happen to Lewis. And second, Roy is not in his prime.
^^

Roy is NOT a real heavyweight. Roy is a great boxer, and manipulator, but he is not and would not be a great heavyweight. Roy could have never beat the Tyson of old, the Holyfield of old, the Lewis of old, etc. etc. Roy knew exactly when it was time to move up to the heavy's (Mike is unfocused and exposed, Lewis is old and exposed, Klitchkos have glass jaws), I mean he is pound for pound the best because he is the smartest out there. He has already left his mark and will definitely have his place in history, but noway would he have been the greatest heavyweight.
Roy is the pound for pound best because he was woopin azz, name somebody who can beat Roy and we not talking about heavy weights. Name a fighter who can move up in weight class and do what Roy has done? Even drop weight? Roy is not trying to take over the heavy weight game, he just want that one fight. Now I would agree with you on he knew when to move up in the heavy weight division. And the only reason he wants to fight mike cause mike is not focus. If mike really gets into shape and comes back strong I doubt Roy would fight him. But the way mike was I think Roy could of beat him. I really think Roy really needs to train and have more fights in the heavy weight division. But that would take a while for him to really become a threat in the heavy weight division. And Roy is only getting older and not in his prime. So his chances of taking over the division won't happen. When Roy was hungery and in his prime nobody really wanted to get in his way.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 11th, 2004, 4:57 pm

blkjoker wrote:Roy is the pound for pound best because he was woopin azz, name somebody who can beat Roy and we not talking about heavy weights.
^^^
Yeah...he was woopin ass. I don't think that there is someone that can beat Roy that is not a heavyweight....Tarver is going to try and Hopkins is tooooo small.
blkjoker wrote:Name a fighter who can move up in weight class and do what Roy has done? Even drop weight?
^^^
James Toney...Why won't Roy fight him again at Heavy?????????????
blkjoker wrote:So his chances of taking over the division won't happen. When Roy was hungery and in his prime nobody really wanted to get in his way.
^^^
True, but if he stops going up and down he could at least make a major mark. Everyone knows that he beat Ruiz (true paper champ) at 190-195 tops). If he can stay around 200.......man....

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 11th, 2004, 6:00 pm

Conman wrote: James Toney...Why won't Roy fight him again at Heavy?????????????


Roy really don't want to box much longer, and he is not trying to dominate the heavy weight division. And if I am not mistaking he already whooped Toney's azz. But Roy knows in order to fight Toney he is going to have to get use to the weight and may take on more fights to be ready. I think Roy does not want to go through all that for a fighter he already beat and would beat again. If the money is right Roy may do it. And Taver lucky Roy was not at his best. But if they fight again I think Taver would have been happier with there first fight, because Roy is going to get in that azz next time.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 12th, 2004, 9:07 am

blkjoker wrote:Conman wrote: James Toney...Why won't Roy fight him again at Heavy?????????????


And if I am not mistaking he already whooped Toney's azz.
^^^

Yeah at middle weight. And if anything, Toney beat himself (he let Roy get in his head and he was trying to imitate Roy). As heavy's I think it could be a different story.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Past » May 12th, 2004, 2:22 pm

In the James against Roy fight Toney had no chance, He was in the bahamas while his manager calls him up and tells him he is fighting Roy Jones Jr in 3 weeks. How on earth are you going to prepare to fight a guy like Roy in 3 weeks? by the time he was back to traning was only 2 weeks before the fight so he was really unprepared , if they had a rematch i dont know who would win but it would be good.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 12th, 2004, 3:05 pm

Past wrote:In the James against Roy fight Toney had no chance, He was in the bahamas while his manager calls him up and tells him he is fighting Roy Jones Jr in 3 weeks. How on earth are you going to prepare to fight a guy like Roy in 3 weeks? by the time he was back to traning was only 2 weeks before the fight so he was really unprepared , if they had a rematch i dont know who would win but it would be good.
^^^
Yeah........there was all sorts of drama after that. He didn't get focused again until he hooked up with Goosen. Now, I think at heavy, Toney would win, via decision.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 12th, 2004, 11:40 pm

Conman wrote:
Past wrote:In the James against Roy fight Toney had no chance, He was in the bahamas while his manager calls him up and tells him he is fighting Roy Jones Jr in 3 weeks. How on earth are you going to prepare to fight a guy like Roy in 3 weeks? by the time he was back to traning was only 2 weeks before the fight so he was really unprepared , if they had a rematch i dont know who would win but it would be good.
^^^
Yeah........there was all sorts of drama after that. He didn't get focused again until he hooked up with Goosen. Now, I think at heavy, Toney would win, via decision.
Well Toney was prepared for Montell Griffin and lost to him 2 times. What happen there? Roy str8 whooped Montell both time, and Toney could not.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 12th, 2004, 11:42 pm

Past wrote:In the James against Roy fight Toney had no chance, He was in the bahamas while his manager calls him up and tells him he is fighting Roy Jones Jr in 3 weeks. How on earth are you going to prepare to fight a guy like Roy in 3 weeks? by the time he was back to traning was only 2 weeks before the fight so he was really unprepared , if they had a rematch i dont know who would win but it would be good.

I agree but Roy still would win over Toney.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 13th, 2004, 9:18 am

^^^
Who says he was prepared for Griffin???

Griffin gave Roy problems that first fight......2nd fight was total domination by Roy.

As a Heavy, Toney looks more comfortable and has a harder punch. Roy would have major problems with him at heavy.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by blkjoker » May 14th, 2004, 1:34 am

Conman wrote:^^^
Who says he was prepared for Griffin???

Griffin gave Roy problems that first fight......2nd fight was total domination by Roy.

As a Heavy, Toney looks more comfortable and has a harder punch. Roy would have major problems with him at heavy.
So you mean to tell me both times Toney fought Griffin he was not prepared? True Griffin did give Roy problems the first fight and Roy still beat him and put him on his azz, then threw the late hit. But Toney lost both times. Roy dont got nothing really to prove he done made history and really he tring to go out and style and draw the big money fight. Even though I would of liked him to have a rematch with hopkins when it almost happen. I would like to see him fight Toney at heavy as well. I agree with u Roy would have troubles with Toney at heavy Roy does not fight well age is kicking Roy azz and he knows it, he cant fight as well with age like some fighters Hopkins to name one and even Toney. Some just dont have it some can keep going, depending how Roy looks against Traver we will know.

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 14th, 2004, 3:28 pm

blkjoker wrote:
So you mean to tell me both times Toney fought Griffin he was not prepared?.
^^^
Are we talkin physically or mentally??? If I remember, Toney was on one for a while in his personal life (pulled out a gun on his mgr., was getting in trouble with cops, etc.). I personally did not see the 2nd Toney/Griffin fight, but I remember Toney damn near became a Griffin stalker after that. LOL
blkjoker wrote:Roy dont got nothing really to prove he done made history and really he tring to go out and style and draw the big money fight.
^^^
True
blkjoker wrote:Even though I would of liked him to have a rematch with hopkins when it almost happen.
^^^
Hopkins doesn't hit hard enough.But when you think about it, it would have been a very slow fight. Hopkins would have been runnin the whole night......think about it, Roy is punching like a Lightheavy now...we know he has deceptive power and Hopkins is not trying to taste it....he would have counter-punched and ran all night. It would have bee very boring for some (real fight fans would have loved it)...but who knows who would have won.
blkjoker wrote:I would like to see him fight Toney at heavy as well.
^^^
Toney hits too hard!!!! Toooooooo big a risk for Roy...have you noticed that since Toney beat Jirov he has been calling Roy out??

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Re: Mohammed Ali---> GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Unread post by Conman » May 17th, 2004, 6:00 pm

NYorker wrote:You are right Conman........but anyone wo is saying RJJ may be getting his ass kicked by age....should look at how he looked lastnight at that weigh in...the man was cut and focused. I know he's always in pretty much good shape....but he looked like steel.
It would be interesting to see RJJ vs Toney at Hvy. In Toney vs RJJ 1 I think there was more to it than Toney being distracted and unprepared
1: Part of what makes Toney a bad ass is what messed him up when RJJ sucked him into taunting RJJ and then WHAM! knocked Toney on his ass lol Toney really wasnt that hurt if at all just surprised.
2: I really think Toney underestimated RJJ and paid the cost to lose to the boss.

Toney can be lazy/slow starter and might lose on points vs RJJ I know RJJ would'nt stand in front of Toney and bring it to him like Jirov made the mistake of doing......that plays into Toney's game.
^^^
After what just happened, Roy will not be fighting any real threats soon.........then again, he may want to prove something. Toney is still tooooooooo dangerous, could have a Tarver repeat.

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