god and gangs p1 &p2

Religion is probably the biggest divider in world history, but for those that believe in God it is central to our existence. Share your views.
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ratt
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god and gangs p1 &p2

Unread post by ratt » July 6th, 2005, 6:52 pm

which god do you obey? :D

read latest article:
http://www.streetgangs.com/magazine/060705false.html

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Kemosave
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Unread post by Kemosave » July 6th, 2005, 11:32 pm

There is only one and you are not and will never be Him.

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Unread post by ratt » July 8th, 2005, 12:52 pm

GOD HIMSELF SAYS THAT THERE ARE MANY GODS. FALSE GODS OF COURSE BUT MANY IN OPPOSITION TO THE TRUE GOD, NOT ME.

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Unread post by Kemosave » July 8th, 2005, 1:31 pm

They are not actual gods. That is the point.

Anonymous20

Unread post by Anonymous20 » July 9th, 2005, 1:58 am

Kemosave wrote:They are not actual gods. That is the point.
God himself does use the term "god" with reference to others. Read 2 Corinthians 4:4, god is used to describe Satan. But ofcourse this is not referring to AlMighty God from, Genesis 17:1, or in Revelation 1:8, so in essence they are actual gods, just not Gof Almighty.

Also the scriptures make reference to Egyptian gods somewhere.

TmaaN

Unread post by TmaaN » July 9th, 2005, 6:12 pm

I think he meant that there is only one true God by definition. Yes the other (lower case g) gods do exist but they are not comparable to the One only True and Living God.

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Unread post by Kemosave » July 10th, 2005, 5:21 pm

I will answer Alonso shortly. I'm looking up a few things. It's really an interesting disagreement and I appreciate him making me do some more research to qualify my position. Peace.

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Unread post by Kemosave » July 13th, 2005, 3:10 pm

Alonso: God himself does use the term "god" with reference to others. Read 2 Corinthians 4:4, god is used to describe Satan. But of course this is not referring to Almighty God from, Genesis 17:1, or in Revelation 1:8, so in essence they are actual gods, just not God Almighty. Also the scriptures make reference to Egyptian gods somewhere.

Kemosave: I apologize for the long post Alonso but as usual I strive to be both accurate and complete as far as I am able. I know you are busy with your PhD; however, I always try to give special attention to your posts knowing the level of intelligence that you have been blessed with. Ok, here’s the way I see it:

If we follow the biblical usage, I don't think we can use the term "gods" to refer to angels or demons or any supernatural being other than God Himself. It comes out pretty clearly when you survey the usage of this term through the Bible.

The OT Hebrew word ‘elohim’ is translated into English as "gods" (1) and often means literally "judges" or "magistrates." It can therefore refer to human beings rather than supernatural beings. This Hebrew usage of the word "gods" finds its way into the Greek NT on one occasion, in John 10:33-36 (and I don't find any others), where Jesus is first translated into Greek before being translated into English:

The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?" (John 10:33-36, NASB).

Jesus is quoting from here: “I said, "You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you will die like men, and fall like any one of the princes." (Ps 82:6-7, NASB)

You can see clearly in this Psalm at least that the Hebrew word translated "gods" is referring to people, not supernatural beings.

Note also that Verse 1 of this same psalm says:

God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers.
(Ps 82:1, NASB)

This word translated "rulers" in this verse is the Hebrew elohim, or "gods". Because the NT Greek of John 10:33-36 is quoting from the OT Hebrew, it uses this word "gods" in the sense of "rulers" this one time. I don't see any other place in the NT where it is used this way.

While "gods" can therefore refer to human judges/magistrates in Hebrew, it is possible that it could have been used in the same way to refer to supernatural beings such as angels and demons in the sense that they, too, are powerful rulers over various domains and realms. However, it seems that the NT writers were very careful to avoid calling demons "gods", probably because they didn't want to dignify Greek polytheism in any way and therefore cause a stumbling block.

Paul prefers to say that Greek gods are "nothing". Although he also says that those who sacrifice to idols are sacrificing to "demons", he never says that the idol represents a particular demon in a one-for-one relationship. That direct connection between idols and demons would have been tantamount to admitting actual existence for the Greek gods in the persons of demons. Furthermore, Paul never uses the word "gods" to describe these demons that are being worshipped in Greek religion.

For example, Paul's enemies understood him as saying that the Greek gods aren't really gods at all: "And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus, but in almost all of Asia, this Paul has persuaded and turned away a considerable number of people, saying that gods made with hands are no gods at all." (Acts 19:26, NASB)

Paul says as much in 1 Corinthians: “Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.” (1 Cor 8:4-6, NASB).

Although Paul clearly says, "there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one," still it seems he may be admitting the counterclaim that there really are many "gods" when he further says, "as indeed there are many gods and many lords." However, I don't think this verse supports this counterclaim. This would be a contradiction of what Paul had just said in the previous sentence. Instead, this phrase may be referring to the belief in many gods and many lords, not their actual existence. In other words, it may literally mean "as indeed there are many gods and many lords in Greek religion." This seems to make better sense in the overall context of these verses.

In any case, Paul said in this passage "for even if there are so-called gods" which implies that he believes there aren't really any and that he is speaking only hypothetically. And of course he had just finished saying "there is no such thing as an idol in the world" meaning no such thing as the supernatural being that the statue represents. And he said "there is no God but one." The word "God" is simply the singular case of the same Greek word "gods", and since Paul said there is no "god" but the one "God", it is clear that Paul does not admit the use of the word "god" for any being except Almighty God alone.

This same idea is taught in his letter to the Galatians where he wrote: "However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods." (Gal 4:8, NASB).

So Paul really did teach that the Greek gods are "no gods at all" as his enemies claimed. Yet, he does teach that real, supernature beings are somehow associated with Greek worship: "What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.
"You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons." (1 Cor 10:19-21, NASB).

So again he is clearly saying that an idol is not anything (it is nothing, or "no god at all"), but he is also saying that worshipping idols is to involve oneself with demons. I think that Paul is very carefully trying to avoid giving any dignity to demons by using the term "gods" to describe them. The demons associated with the worship of Apollo, for example, aren't the "god" that the Greeks were thinking about when they were worshipping Apollo. The demons are taking advantage of the worshipers of Apollo, but it wouldn't be right to associate any particular demon with the name Apollo or to call the demons "gods".

I think we can conclude that Paul does not allow the word "god" to be used for any supernatural beings other than God Himself. I can't find any place where "gods" is used this way in the NT except when it refers to the false beliefs of non-Christians and except for the one passage where Jesus' words are translated from the Jewish usage ("gods" = "rulers") into Greek before being translated into English.

On the other hand, while Paul doesn't allow the Greek word for "god" to be used for any except for the Almighty, nevertheless he does teach that the other, subordinate, supernatural beings really do exist and that they are indeed exalted rulers. If Paul had been writing in Hebrew and not to his Greek culture, then he could have used the Hebrew word "gods" (meaning "magistrates") in describing angels and demons. You can see this in these verses:

“In order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. (Eph 3:10, NASB).

“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12, NASB).

“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him.” (Col 1:16, NASB).

“When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.” (Col 2:15, NASB).

It is remarkable that Paul could have used the Greek word "gods" as being equivalent to the Hebrew "gods" to mean rulers or authorities or powers, but he consistently avoided doing this. I think that we see a similar usage of the word "gods" in the OT. There are numerous times where the prophets wrote that the idols are "nothing" just as Paul did later:

"Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron and the Levites, and made for yourselves priests like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams, even he may become a priest of what are no gods...” (2 Chr 13:9, NASB).

“and have cast their gods into the fire, for they were not gods but the work of men's hands, wood and stone...” (Isa 37:19, NASB).

"Has a nation changed gods, when they were not gods? But My people have changed their glory for that which does not profit." (Jer 2:11, NASB).

“Can man make gods for himself? Yet they are not gods!” (Jer 16:20, NASB).

In the OT, idols are never admitted as representing any real supernatural beings. They are always described as representing "nothing". On the other hand, demons do exist in the OT. They are never called "gods" to my knowledge, though. (Perhaps they are called "sons of God" in the sense that they are fallen angels, but never do I see them called "gods").

There are many place where God Almighty is contrasted with the "gods" in a way that makes it sound as if they really exist. For example:

“For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods,” (Ps 95:3, NASB).

“...worship Him, all you gods.” (Ps 97:7b, NASB).

This does not necessarily mean that the "gods" actually exist. It is probably speaking poetically to teach that God is exalted because He is real whereas the polytheistic "gods" are in a lowly state of shame primarily because they don't really exist. And these poetic uses in the OT are really very few. The vast number of times the word "gods" is found in the OT are just referring to the false beliefs of those who are not God's people, and to the teaching that they are "nothing", and in a few occasions it uses the word for human judges or magistrates. The same word also refers to God himself.

Of course, if someone were to go outside of the biblical usage of the word "gods" and were to use it in the sense of "magistrates" to refer to angels or demons, this would in no way imply that these beings are co-eternal with God. They would still be "magistrates" who are created beings. Notice also that even in polytheism the gods aren't the creators of the cosmos and they aren't eternal beings. They are almost always created beings that were born from an earlier generation of "gods" which were themselves generated by the primordial god or goddess (who was usually associated with the primordial chaos). Hence, the idea of "gods" in polytheism isn't too far from the idea of angels or demons in monotheism because they are subordinate, created beings that exist within the creation and not above it. Perhaps we could have accepted that (for example) Apollo might have really existed in Greek history and that he was a demon who had fooled the Greeks into worshiping him. But when Paul refers to Greeks as sacrificing to demons, it seems he is very careful to avoid giving any credence to Greek belief, and so he never says the Greek gods are demons or that they are anything at all. Instead, he strictly says that there aren't any "gods" but God. The Greeks are involving themselves with demons in some way through the ordinances of their Greek religion, but Paul never associates those demons with the name of any Greek god or with the term "gods". Demons are never dignified in that way, and not even angels are giving the status of that term.

This brings me to the verse you quote friend: 2 Cor. 4:4. The NT does refer to the devil as the "god of this world" or equivalent in a couple of places, but I think that is an analogical contrast to the real God and it is not using the word "god" as a general term of classification for subordinate supernatural beings. Note that it is always used in the singular in those instances, never in the plural.

It is remarkable that polytheistic beliefs of Greece and Mesopotamia involved an overthrow of an earlier generation of gods by the later generation of gods. This overthrow puts the younger generation of gods into the role of being rulers of this world. I have wondered if this story of overthrow is an ancient reflection of the biblical account of the Fall, by which the devil "overthrew" God and became the god of this world. In Greek mythology, for example, Zeus overthrew his father Chronos and Chronos had overthrown his father Uranus ("sky"). It is similar in Mesopotamian mythology. On the other hand, is it possible that the idea of these polytheistic gods may have contained a reflection of the actual attributes of the true God? (For example, Premetheus of the earlier generation of Greek Gods -- the Titans -- is the creator of mankind and the one who rescued their "Noah" by warning him to make an ark. Ea/Enki plays both these same roles in Mesopotamian mythology, although Ea/Enki is of the younger generation.) It is hard to say either way whether the devil or the True God is being subsumed in some way into these polytheistic myths -- perhaps there is a mixture. Certainly it would have been shameful to associate the low view of god contained in polytheism with the true God. In any case, was Paul making a statement about polytheism when he called the devil "the god of this age"? I can't say. But clearly the Bible never uses the term "gods" in the plural to describe a class of supernatural beings that actually existed. As far as I can see this term only refers to false beliefs about beings that do not really exist and hence are "nothing", or to human magistrates (in the OT and quoted once by Jesus in the NT), or in the singular case to God Himself.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3) God commands that we, as his crowning creation have no other gods before the only true and Almighty God. Yes the Bible speaks frequently about other gods. For instance, there are a variety of "other gods" seen through the Bible which have proper names: Erech (Gen. 10:10); Bel or Baal (Isaiah 46:1; Jer. 50:2; 51:44); Nebo (Isaiah 46:1); Ishtar, also referred to as the queen of heaven (Jer. 7:18; 44:17-19); Ashtoreth (2 Kings 23:13); Rimon (2 Kings 5:18); Dagon (Judges 16:23); Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5; 2 Kings 23:10; Jer. 32:35); Chemosh (2 Kings 3:27); Zeus and Hermes (Acts 14:8-18). All of these are other gods. Many other ancient gods are recorded in history from all parts of the globe. They are not God in representation. They are "gods" created and worshipped which have absolutely nothing to do with the Almighty God. Some are made up fantasies which in some way or another satisfied the creator of that particular god. These "gods" were worshipped and adored by people who thought that these gods were actually real, although they had been fabricated. Imagine some “oracle” sitting around and thinking up a name for the god of "fertility" because the ruler’s nephew had not conceived with his wife for the last three months.

A real example of a made up false god would be Molech from Old Testament times. He is mentioned in Leviticus 18:21; 20:2-5 to name two places. There was a statue of Molech in the Hinnom Valley which was made of brass in the form of a man. It was hollow so that the people could stoke wood in it and make a raging fire burn within. The brass would become incredibly hot, as you would imagine; metal becomes red and glowing under an intense flame and heat. The idolatrous Jews then took their children and offered them to this idol by placing them in its hands and burned them to death. The Jews thought that if a father sacrificed a child as an offering to this "god", then the rest of his house and family prospered. This was a concept which was known as "passing the children through the fire." It was deemed an abomination by the real Almighty God for obvious reasons.

(1) In the Old Testament, the Hebrew plural 'elohim is generally known as the plural of "majesty" and is the ordinary name for God. The meaning of the plural seems to be "plenitude of powers." It denotes the fullness of those attributes of power which belonged to only Almighty God. Thus it is usually translated in the singular, "God," when referring to the God of Israel. When reference is made to the gods of the other nations the word is translated in the plural, "gods." The heathen nations usually had a plurality of gods that supposedly had different powers. Among the Semites it was customary for one nation or tribe to have its own particular god. Often there were many tribes, or families, or communities, in one nation, each having a particular god. Thus, even among Semites a nation may have many gods and be polytheistic. Among the other nations, Iranian, Hamitic, etc., there were always a number of deities, sometimes a multitude. There are many references to these in the Old Testament. In a few cases where the plural is used, the singular would be better, e.g. Genesis 3:5 the King James Version; Exodus 32:4, Exodus 32:8, Exodus 32:23; Ruth 1:15 the King James Version; Judges 17:5; Judges 18:24; 1 Samuel 17:43. This, however, might be disputed.

The ancestors of Israel "beyond the River" had their gods (Joshua 24:14 f.). While there is no mention of idolatry before the Deluge, the ancestors and kindred of Abraham were idolaters. Ur of the Chaldees was the center for the worship of Sin, the Moon-god. Many others were worshipped in the various cities of Babylon. And the gods of Laban and his family (Genesis 31:30, Genesis 31:32; Genesis 35:2, Genesis 35:4) were household gods or teraphim, and were stolen by Rachel and carried off in her flight with Jacob.

And you are correct there were the gods of Egypt: For many centuries before the time of Abraham there had been numerous objects of worship in Egypt. Many of these were animals, birds and natural objects. Horus, the hawk, was one of the earliest of all. The cat, the bull, etc., were worshipped at times. The plagues of Egypt were specially directed against these wretched deities (Numbers 33:4; Exodus 12:12). Yahweh took vengeance on all the gods of Egypt. These terrible events showed that "Yahweh is greater than all gods" (Exodus 18:11). He redeemed His people from the nations and its gods (2 Samuel 7:23). Jeremiah predicted the time when Yahweh should destroy the gods of Egypt (Jeremiah 43:12 f.; Jeremiah 46:25).

Of the gods of the Amorites (Judges 6:10) no names are given, but they probably were the same as the gods of the Canaanites. The gods of the Canaanites were Nature-gods, and their worship was that of the productive and chiefly reproductive powers of Nature. Their service was perhaps the most immoral and degrading of all. The high places and altars of the different Baals, Ashtoreths, etc., were numerous throughout Canaan. These deities were always represented by images and Moses makes frequent reference to them with warnings against this seductive worship (Deuteronomy 7:25; Deuteronomy 12:3, Deuteronomy 12:10, Deuteronomy 12:31; Deuteronomy 13:7; Deuteronomy 20:18; Deuteronomy 29:18; Deuteronomy 32:16, etc.).

Solomon's many wives worshipped their own gods, and he provided the means for their worship. Chief among these were Chemosh of Moab and Molech of Ammon (1 Kings 11:2, 1 Kings 11:4, 1 Kings 11:8).

The mixed peoples transplanted into Samaria by Sargon had their various gods and mingled their service with that of Yahweh, after being taught by a priest of Yahweh. The names of some of these gods were Succoth-benoth, Nergal, Ashima, Nibhaz, Tartak, Adrammelech (2 Kings 17:29-31, 2 Kings 17:33). See separate articles.

And there are many other examples of other peoples in ancient history that worshipped other gods. But notice the Biblical position of Yahweh’s superiority to all other Gods:

"King above all gods" (Psalms 95:3; Psalms 97:7, Psalms 97:9; Psalms 86:8; Psalms 135:5; Psalms 136:2; Psalms 138:1; Jeremiah 10:11; Zephaniah 2:11; Daniel 2:18, Daniel 2:47). Jeremiah advances so far toward a pure and well-defined monotheism that he speaks of all other gods as "not gods." They have no existence to him (Jeremiah 2:11; Jeremiah 5:7; Jeremiah 16:20). A similar position is taken in Isa. 41; 43, etc.

Anyway, my point is that many so called gods were simply made up without any real spiritual power behind them although in many cases demons were using the situation (read entire reply).

The first and second commandments are directed against idolatry of every form. Individuals and communities were equally amenable to the rigorous code. In the New Testament the term idolatry is used to designate covetousness (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13; Colossians 3:5; Ephesians.

Now let’s address the spiritual power behind false gods. The Bible extensively, accurately, and uniquely describes the spirit realm (the realm beyond matter, energy, and the ten space time dimensions associated with matter and energy) on any and all points that can be confirmed by scientific inquiry. Its integrity in these matters lends significant weight to its trustworthiness in addressing those matters that lie beyond the reach of direct scientific confirmation.

The Bible declares the existence of God and of two more distinctively spiritual types of creatures: humans and angels. Humans are physical beings with spiritual awareness and spiritual capabilities. Angels, on the other hand, are spiritual beings who are not bound to Earth but are capable of manifesting themselves - even physically- on Earth within limits established by God. According to the Bible, the majority of these creatures remain obedient to God, faithful in His service. A sizable minority, however, rebelled against God. The first and most powerful of these rebellious angels is called Lucifer, or Satan (among other designations). Those who followed him in rebellion are most often called evil spirits, fallen angels, or demons (Matthew 25:41; Luke 10:18; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6; Revelation 20:2).

Angels, according to the Bible, are intelligent beings existing beyond the space-time dimensions of the universe, subject to God's spiritual laws but not to all of Earth's natural laws. Angels within certain limits set by God have the capacity to make contact with humans and even to influence their actions. They can take on what appears to be human form and even consume physical food, as in the case of Abraham and Lot's visitors (Genesis 18:8; 19:3). Angels in apparent human form also heralded Samson's birth and greeted the women at Jesus' empty tomb (Judges 13:3-5, 9-21; Luke 24:4-7).

Angels do possess some supernatural powers: the two who visited Sodom struck Lot's attackers with blindness, and the angel who visited Manoah and his wife ascended in a flame. But angels, as God's creation, operate within limits set by God, and their powers in no way approach the magnitude of God's power. The Bible defines the boundaries of God's exercise of supernatural power. The miracles He shows to humans are designed to engender humility, to turn people away from exalting anything or anyone above God. Moreover, God does not waste miracles. He apparently performs only those necessary to achieve His purposes.

All creatures who serve God, the Bible says, will be recognizable by their exaltation of Jesus Christ as the way, the truth, and the life given by God. They will further the fulfillment of God's stated purposes for human beings: to love and serve Him, to love and serve other human beings, and to take care of the world He created. They will never turn attention or worship away from Him toward any other person or being or message of salvation.

If, on the other hand, worshipping false gods result from the stated purposes and activities of fallen angels, they will reflect a penchant for rejecting or distorting God's authority and purposes. They will draw attention away from God and the historic Christian gospel and turn it elsewhere.

It is true that demons are dangerous. But people need not feel hopeless in the face of their attacks. There is a greater power at hand: God's. And by His gracious provision, God makes His power available to human beings through the agency of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Obviously, demon oppression can be manifested in people to different degrees. Moreover, a fine line separates demon oppression from the tendency in all people to sin and rebel against the authority of God. According to the Bible, God has provided all the defenses necessary to prevent demonic deception and attacks. In other words, no one need ever suffer from demonic oppression. But the Bible also acknowledges that humans are notoriously derelict in putting on "the full armor of God" (Ephesians 6:ll). Often people either dose their eyes and minds to the dangers or else think they are strong enough to face such perils on their own. Others believe demonic lies from demonic visitors who say they only want to help humans gain more knowledge and power (such as in occultic messages ranging from seance to UFO encounters and also Wicca for example).

Since we are discussing all of this I'll just present the Biblical solution for while I'm at it:

The full armor of God, as described and explained in the sixth chapter of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, not only can protect believers in Jesus Christ against the attacks and deceptions of demons, but also can equip believers for helping others escape spiritual deception and demonic depression.

"Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. (Ephesians 6: 10-1 8).

The defenses God has provided against demonic oppression and deception are neither complex nor difficult to implement. If you have been troubled because of occult doors opened in your life, here are some steps you can take: (1) Examine your life for any open invitations to demonic oppression and deception. (2) Repent of making those invitations. (Repenting means agreeing with God that providing invitations to demons was wrong and seeking His help to permanently turn away from such invitations.) (3) Confess to God that the invitations to demons provided by your parents or other dose relatives were wrong. (4) Take action to demonstrate repentance and to purify your life, including repudiating and renouncing all occult involvement. (5) Turn your Iife over to Jesus Christ, accepting His offer to forgive all of your sins and giving Him the complete authority He deserves. (6) Acknowledge privately and publicly that His will, not your own, is supreme. (7) Dedicate your heart, soul, mind, and strength to obeying the Lord in your life. You don't have to be perfect, no one is, just properly aligned with God, obeying him, and not engaging in any way with occult behavior including innocent sounding types like UFOs, ouija board, fortune telling, etc.. Repudiate it all forever in your life and seek his plans which last for eternity. Be sure to find a good assembly of Christian believers that understand such things. Victory Outreach is one such assembly. Peace and God bless.

ratt
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gods

Unread post by ratt » July 18th, 2005, 8:52 pm

it does'nt matter if you're human or spirit creature, if you are worshiped by someone, you become a god. animate or inanimate, if it is held in high esteem and persons are willing to sacrafice for it, then it becomes a god. so i repeat my question, which god do you obey? :)

Anonymous20

Unread post by Anonymous20 » July 18th, 2005, 9:13 pm

TmaaN wrote:I think he meant that there is only one true God by definition. Yes the other (lower case g) gods do exist but they are not comparable to the One only True and Living God.
i agree and you are correct.

Anonymous20

Unread post by Anonymous20 » July 18th, 2005, 9:31 pm

that was some thorough response, Kemosave, but yeah, I agree that there is only one true God, and I was just making the point that god has been used to identify and point out other people, individuals and spirits.

thanks for commenting on the sripture from Corinthians I mentioned earlier. I was reading you post, and I thought your forgot about that scripture, but yeah, there is only one God and all those other "gods" are in essence false gods.

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Unread post by Kemosave » July 19th, 2005, 9:34 am

The honor is mine Alonso. I apologize for being so wordy. Peace.

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Unread post by ratt » July 25th, 2005, 10:22 am

yes only one true god, but many false gods steal worship away from the one who it belongs to... Jehovah.

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