Conservative Images

An open section to speak about anything on your mind from News, politics, Conspiracy Theories, and any random street or urban event.
Sentenza
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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by Sentenza » February 8th, 2005, 8:07 am

why has this discussion always go to the level of: you dont like us, we dont like you, you are jealous, we are not jealous blablabla....
for me its not about that!
i am definitely NOT jealous on america, but i also dont hate it.
I have only been there once but i liked it.
I respect americans a lot and know some personally.
I have to admit i am really irritated by some"ways of thinking" americans have...but i could say that about every country, cause every country has its own special history and culture and not one is better than the other.
All are equal...at least to me.
The thing is that the bush administration and some blinded americans were the first to "hate" on Europe, just because we had our own opinion
towards the Iraq war. (Remember French Fries getting called Freedom Fries and people throwing french whine bottles into ditches and stuff)
That started in America.
I just dont understand that a simple disagreement causes so many emotions in America.
And as far as socialist governments are concerned....it was all a thing of eastern europe. It never really spread to western europe, because of the Allies (US, France, UK) and the people not wanting to have it.thanks to all of them for that.
But that still doesnt mean that europeans see the point where we should
let ourselves be instrumenatlized by ANY American administration to fullfill their plans. And the goals of those plans arent really clear if we are all honest.
And really believe me as a german.....
It was the first time i was proud of my country, cause for the first time we werent the first ones on the front. We rejected war. And that showed me that Germany learned its lesson. And thats good. No doubt about it.
Try to understand that it is all a matter of historical developement.
germans are no whimps but we are neurotized with war cause we went throug hell.
it was our own fault, but we never want to go through that again....at all costs.....

peace

Sentenza
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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by Sentenza » February 8th, 2005, 8:38 am

and i think that at least some certain (not only communist) circles in South America have some strong "anti-gringo" tendencies.
but thats only what i read about, heard in the news and got told by somebody.
I have never been there, so i cant say for sure.

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by punamusta » February 8th, 2005, 9:40 am

Krookid,

You really need to understand that people don't critisize your government, or your sometimes VERY hypocrite ways of thinking, because people are jealous. No. I've tried asking you wherefrom you get those kind of thoughts, because those are not based on facts. You're just guessing and assuming, and that don't take you nowhere.

People in South America are very friendly, that I've heard. But also based on that continental's political history, and Bush administartion, there (just as all around the world) are a lot of people who don't like you. It has started whit a hate of Bush and his foreign policy, but whit some people that hate of Bush has turned to hate of your country and everything that USA stands for. Just like Bush (and many of you) don't make no difference between Al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein, and 9/11 and Iraq, people who don't like Bush don't always make no difference between Bush and the USA as a nation. It's equally ignorant, but that's just how it is.

And as far as me hating the USA, I say that I don't. Otherwise I wouldn't be here in this board, otherwise I wouldn't be listening to American rap, etc. I don't hate you, but I do hate Bush and especially his foreign policy. Bush is a village idiot whit big guns and evil, greedy means. And everyone of you who says that Bush is doing a great job outside of the USA, I think you're just as stupid as Bush is. But still I don't hate you. I really don't look up to you as a nation in anything, but that don't mean that I would hate you. I'm just proud of my own culture and my own people. I have a very neutral stand for you as a nation, but as I said, that you can't take as a hate. And if you still can't understand (or belive) that, you can blame only yourself. Or the media.

And about that I shouldn't consern about your doings... I don't care about your "inner policy". You can keep your ghettos alive, and poor people poor just like you want, but when it comes to your foreign policy I think I have a right to talk about that. If you (=Bush) can talk about foreign countries and start wars there, why couldn't I speak about that? You don't own the rest of the world, so we do have an equal right to talk about that. Right? If Bush is killing 100 000 Iraqis why I couldn't say that that is wrong? Because I'm not Iraqi? You're not either, but still you're talking about that.

And about those places in South America where it's not healthy to be an American... I can ask those places when my cousin gets back. As far as I remember he told that atleast in Nicaragua there are those kinds of places. Even the local police had told him that (plus several locals). Some people there really do hate you whit a reason. I never said every people there hate you, but some really do. If you would know the history of that continental you would know those reasons too.

And the reason why I'm telling you that the people outside of USA don't support your foreign policy and Bush (and why some people actually hate you) is that I'd like you to understand that there MUST be something WRONG whit your government if so many people ALL AROUND the world dislike you. And if you support Bush and his foreign policy, you're one of the reasons why Americans are not very popular outside of your country. And no matter what YOU think about Bush & Co. you should atleast understand and believe that he's making your whole country look bad outside of the USA. But I guess I'm just wasting my time here, as you've already said that you don't care. But even if you don't care, you should believe it.

And as far it goes whit this conversation, South America isn't the main point here. You just keep hanging on that, 'cause it seems that you don't have anything else to say. Beside talking about Finland like you would be hating us ;)
krookid wrote:As far as the facts of Europe being jealous, thats the kind of thing youn can see.
Where can you see that? That I've been asking you from the start. From the Fox News?
being able to be %100 free.
And what does that exactly mean? To be 100% free? Free from what and how?

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by Sentenza » February 8th, 2005, 11:12 am

dont take it personal, but some1 once said to me: the american motto is being broke/starving in freedom....

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by MICK » February 8th, 2005, 9:16 pm

Sentenza wrote:why has this discussion always go to the level of: you dont like us, we dont like you, you are jealous, we are not jealous blablabla....
for me its not about that!
i am definitely NOT jealous on america, but i also dont hate it.
I have only been there once but i liked it.
I respect americans a lot and know some personally.
I have to admit i am really irritated by some"ways of thinking" americans have...but i could say that about every country, cause every country has its own special history and culture and not one is better than the other.
All are equal...at least to me.
The thing is that the bush administration and some blinded americans were the first to "hate" on Europe, just because we had our own opinion
towards the Iraq war. (Remember French Fries getting called Freedom Fries and people throwing french whine bottles into ditches and stuff)
That started in America.
I just dont understand that a simple disagreement causes so many emotions in America.
And as far as socialist governments are concerned....it was all a thing of eastern europe. It never really spread to western europe, because of the Allies (US, France, UK) and the people not wanting to have it.thanks to all of them for that.
But that still doesnt mean that europeans see the point where we should
let ourselves be instrumenatlized by ANY American administration to fullfill their plans. And the goals of those plans arent really clear if we are all honest.
And really believe me as a german.....
It was the first time i was proud of my country, cause for the first time we werent the first ones on the front. We rejected war. And that showed me that Germany learned its lesson. And thats good. No doubt about it.
Try to understand that it is all a matter of historical developement.
germans are no whimps but we are neurotized with war cause we went throug hell.
it was our own fault, but we never want to go through that again....at all costs.....

peace
Sentenza, youre a cool guy. none of what I am saying is aimed at you brother.

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by MICK » February 8th, 2005, 9:17 pm

ROOJOJR wrote:Krook Dont trip on some angry out of work chain smoker who claims to be from finland. He she should stop hating on other countries and start working towards cleaning up Finlands lack of relevance.
Thank You brother.

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by MICK » February 8th, 2005, 9:38 pm

OK Lizard........

#1. If you had come on here and just said " I disagree with Bush and I dont like him." That would have been another story. But you didnt. You came in here talkin sh*t and posting anti-american pictures. I took offense, so I started talkin sh*t back.

#2. As far as "some people in South America hating Americans"... Brother, I dont even know why you brought that up. Sure, SOME PEOPLE over there hate us. Just like some of them would give you sh*t about being from Finland. SOMEONE would. Thats like saying to an African guy that its unsafe for him to go to America, because in the south, the KKK is deep in the woods. Ok, so f*ckin what? Then dont go in the woods. But he would be safe just about anywhere else. You mentioned South America. You didnt say "some people in South America". Well yea, of course SOMEONE would not like us. And why dont you fill me in on the continental history of South America and America that makes them not like us. Other than the Alamo, and the close call with Granada and Cuba, I dont know what you are talking about.

#3. As far as something being wrong with our government, because people dislike us. They should look at their own f*ckin countries!
SH*T! Look at Germany, they are STILL recovering from WW2. Look at eastern Europe, look at Russia. THERES SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR GOVERNMENT. ROLMFAO!!! And if someone dislikes us, they can suck our nuts. We dont live to please the rest of the world.

And finaly, as far as being free... We can easily get jobs, we dont have to live in recovering former-socialist countries, where it must be a daily panic attack worrying about how you are going to make a living. We dont need our government to take care of us, we can live on our own without assistance from the government. We live free here. That is what I meant by that.

~Krookid

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by punamusta » February 9th, 2005, 11:09 am

krookid wrote:#1. If you had come on here and just said " I disagree with Bush and I dont like him." That would have been another story. But you didnt. You came in here talkin sh*t and posting anti-american pictures. I took offense, so I started talkin sh*t back.
OK. That was my bad if you thought that I was talking sh*t about people of your country. I need to be more precise in the future. I've been (or should be) talking only about your government and how their actions outside of your country affects on people's minds, and how that makes people dislike your country. I know that there's a lot of good people in the USA, so I wouldn't be mashing on your whole nation, and that's why I can't be hating you as a nation.

But those anti-american pictures.. I disagree. Every picture I posted was more like anti-Bush or anti-Republican.
As far as "some people in South America hating Americans"... Brother, I dont even know why you brought that up. Sure, SOME PEOPLE over there hate us. Just like some of them would give you sh*t about being from Finland. SOMEONE would. Thats like saying to an African guy that its unsafe for him to go to America, because in the south, the KKK is deep in the woods. Ok, so f*ckin what? Then dont go in the woods. But he would be safe just about anywhere else. You mentioned South America. You didnt say "some people in South America". Well yea, of course SOMEONE would not like us.
Well, that "some people" is a very comparative concept. I'm not talking about that you can maybe find couple of people there who hate you. No. That's in a lot bigger scale. Last year I spend 1,5 months in Iceland where my girlfirend studied at that moment, and there were also people from Argentina and Brazilia. They told me that atleast in their countries there were kinda lot of the people who actually hated you as a nation. One Argentinian guy even said that he don't even listen to the music that's been made in the USA. And again my cousin told me once that it's pretty surprising how much the people of South America really dislikes you. Of course it's mostly dislike of your government, but you need to understand that your government is chosen by you, and that your government represents you outside of your country.
And why dont you fill me in on the continental history of South America and America that makes them not like us. Other than the Alamo, and the close call with Granada and Cuba, I dont know what you are talking about.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/198803--.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/debates/1986----.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200412--.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200006--.htm

By reading all these three articles & one debate, you'll get the picture. I chose these articles, because first of all Chomsky is an American, and secondly he always talks whit the facts so if you're not believing what he says and try to find some sources disproving his words, you're just wasting your time.
As far as something being wrong with our government, because people dislike us. They should look at their own f*ckin countries!
SH*T! Look at Germany, they are STILL recovering from WW2. Look at eastern Europe, look at Russia. THERES SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR GOVERNMENT. ROLMFAO!!! And if someone dislikes us, they can suck our nuts. We dont live to please the rest of the world.
Well, their countries are not invading other countries (except Russia), refusing to take part to the Kioto convention, refusing to take part to the International Criminal Court, torturing people from other countries, threatening others whit their military, forming death squads to patrol in other countries, etc. Usually the "evil" countries are "evil" only to their own people, but USA is harming people all over the world. Bush is really giving you a bad name. You don't care - fine. But atleast believe it. Don't try to see black as a white, and white as a black. You need to see thru that BS what Bush and Fox News is telling you. Those people have a reason to lie. They have been caught up whit a lie many times, but still for some reason people seem to think that they don't lie again. Why wouldn't they? As long as you give support to Bush, that long he keeps lieing.

Here, look at this link, and then tell me what other country has stick their noses into others business that many times: http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa02.html
And finaly, as far as being free... We can easily get jobs, we dont have to live in recovering former-socialist countries, where it must be a daily panic attack worrying about how you are going to make a living. We dont need our government to take care of us, we can live on our own without assistance from the government. We live free here. That is what I meant by that.
So you think that every other nation besides USA is a "recovering former-socialist country"? Because if you're talking about freedom, you can't comprare USA only to those particular Eastern European countries. You have been very proud of your democracy and your long history of that, so if you're talking about 100% freedom, you need to compare yourselves to those democratic countries that also have a long history in democratic. Otherwise you sound like a cripple who have lost his left foot, but keeps saying that he's 100% healthy, because some other people around him has lost all of their legs and arms.

And being a 100% free don't mean that you can get some shitty job whit a minimum weight so that you hardly can even bring food to your family, or that you can live whitout your government in SOME cases. For me it seems that your government lets you be free only in some strict matters. After all, they have arrested many anti-war demonstrators whitout any reasons at all, they have arrested many muslims & black people whitout any reasons at all, they are listening to peoples phone calls constantly, etc. I can't help it, but for me your freedom seems more like an empty slogan. You're just as free as your government let you to be. And that's truly not 100% free. Otherwise you would be living in an anarchist society, right.

And if you're part of some ethnic minority, then how free you actually are? I've seen many people even in this board complaining about the racism. And what about your media? Do you think that journalist are 100% free to write about anything? Because if you do, then you have an opposite opinion than many journalist of your country.

I think it's the same way than almost in every other country: if you got a lot of money, then you have a lot of freedom. And/but that cannot be described as a 100% freedom.

Couple of links of the freedom of the USA: http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/us_law_05.htm
http://www.soundvision.com/info/peace/911casualties.asp

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by MICK » February 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

Ok, as far as your buddy Chomsky goes, only one of those links were about a South American country. Colombia.

Also, you hate Bush, but how did you feel about Clinton?

The reason I ask is because those events in Colombia happened in 97, 98 and 99. Bush was elected in 2000. That was Mr. Clinton responsible for that one. Also, you should read where it says that the average Colombian doesnt hat America. Those are rebel factions that they were talking about.

As far as the link on Krysstal.com goes, alot of that was complete bullsh*t. Definently written by an anti-American. The reasons listed for going to those countries were complete fabrications.
Even with your buddy Chomsky, anyone can put together a story to make someone else look bad. I belive nothing I hear, and only half of what I read. Unless I see it, I will not belive it. Im not going to take the word of some blatantly bias man. He will only try to make his side look good.

As far as being free, and how you have heard people on this site complaining of racism. BELIVE ME, IF YOU LIVED HERE YOU WOULD SEE THE TRUTH. EVERYONE complains about racism here. Its a major flaw in our society over here. I just read an article in the paper today that a white guy is suing Burger King because the black kid behind the counter muttered the word, "cracker" under his breath to him. Its out of control as far as that goes. If you lived here, belive me you would see what I mean.

As far as the media. F*CK THE MEDIA. Jews have used it as a tool to their advantage for years now. I hate the media.

And no I don think that every nation other than the US is a recovering socialist country. But much of Europe is. I have a German neighbor who told me that he came here because work is so sh*tty over there. He said "people get hired and immediately take 3 month vacations because the government makes the companies do that. The country is not very profitable because of it, and its a horrible idea."

Here we want the government to stay out of our buisness. In Europe they want the government to hold their hands. And as far as getting a minimum wage job because we are free, thats bull sh*t.

I dont care what you say, this is the land of opportunity. You can start with nothing and be a millionare if you work hard enough. My grandfather came to this country from Ireland with nothing but a knife, a comb and a ciggarette lighter. And of course, a criminal record in Ireland, and he retired pretty f*ckin well here. And he wasnt even a legal citizen at first!
He had to fight in WW2 in order to get that! But look at him now.
You can do ANYTHING here if you are willing to work for it. Thats why more immigrants come here than anywhere else. Is it even possible to start with nothing and become a millionare in Germany, or Russia or
Ukraine,or even your country?

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by Sentenza » February 10th, 2005, 9:15 am

yea you are right, the Us has great oppurtinities to many people. I know some people who immigrated to the Us and made it...
But i think in the same way as you can make a fortune there are very many people who are landing on the streets in bitter poverty.
The hilariously high crime and poverty statistics at least indicate that...
Maybe thats a downside about the Us System.
People should help each other out in a greater amount.
But you know, i think the starting point wasnt about which system culture is better or not. If someone has a problem living in the Us, move the fuck out there and if someone has a problem with Europe you can move somewhere else. Nobody forces you to live here or there.
The point is, what i was originally talking about, that i am really pisse off by the arrogance and ignorance of some of those Republicans in your administration.(but please lets not talk about German politicians aswell. they are damn fools too)
I think ignorance and arrogance is a very bad precondition to deal with the world and to make friends in the world.
I am talking about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.
To me they are sometimes really ridiculous and cant be taken serious if you are european. This is no offense against american people.
But that clique is really messing things more up than they should.
They insulted europeans before many people here even started disliking america. In fact, they are the reason for that.
You know, the superirority, they think they are in and they say into anyones face is a very very bad foundation for the teamwork europe and america should do....
That was the reason i got so pissed off by these really arrogant "conservative images".
Being disrespectful brings just no advantage.


Peace

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by MICK » February 10th, 2005, 9:30 am

^ That is true about the crime here. Its a BIG problem. As far as poverty, its ridiculous. Nobody should be homeless or in poverty in America. You can be homless and turn yourself into a very rich man if you work for it. Anything is possible here.

A while back, my wife's brother was visiting here from Peru for the first time. As we were driving back from Ohare (the airport) we saw a group of about 5 homeless guys laying under a bridge. He asked me in spanish, "what are those guys doing?"

I told him they were homeless. He said, " I know they are homeless, I meant what are they doing homeless in America?"

Even he knew that you could do anything here. And that was his first time in America. Poverty is pointless here. This is America. You can be anything you want to if you work for it.

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Re: Conservative Images

Unread post by Mraka » February 18th, 2005, 6:06 am

WHO is Jeff Gannon? reading the article in the news.Is it past or present issue?
http://www.talonnews.com/
http://www.gopusa.com/

lol
Go ahead Jeff.....

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Unread post by mikg » July 12th, 2005, 12:12 pm

MICK wrote:Poverty is pointless here. This is America. You can be anything you want to if you work for it.
I would like to see some data behind this statement.

Is the social mobility better in U.S.A. than in wellfare societies? If I remember right, no, it's quite the opposite.

I was studing this book about human genetics and it had something about racism in it. Allthough the following said in the book is not related to genetics, it's rather interesting. It said that the stripping of social security in U.S.A. means that it will take black and hispanic population many many more generations before they could be socially even with caucasians.

Have you ever wondered why in welfare societies there are no places where life expectancy is only 20 years for males?

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http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/ ... _page.html

Here's some more information about what U.S.A. has done in Southern America (and other places too).

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Unread post by StillNoScript » July 14th, 2005, 1:19 am

mikg wrote:
MICK wrote:Poverty is pointless here. This is America. You can be anything you want to if you work for it.
I would like to see some data behind this statement.

Is the social mobility better in U.S.A. than in wellfare societies? If I remember right, no, it's quite the opposite.

I was studing this book about human genetics and it had something about racism in it. Allthough the following said in the book is not related to genetics, it's rather interesting. It said that the stripping of social security in U.S.A. means that it will take black and hispanic population many many more generations before they could be socially even with caucasians.

Have you ever wondered why in welfare societies there are no places where life expectancy is only 20 years for males?

______________________

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/ ... _page.html

Here's some more information about what U.S.A. has done in Southern America (and other places too).
I'm a Democrat, but I don't believe in a welfare state, or socialism. I'd like to think I could get rich someday and bone Jessica Simpson in my swimming pool.

I do, however, believe in a higher tax bracket for the wealthy, and govt funding for job training and vocational education, not to mention drug treatment, INSTEAD of welfare as we know it. I know some people will need welfare regardless, but for most welfare receptients, we need to get them out on the workforce. Republicans want to just leave them on their own. But I think Clinton had the right idea; To end welfare as we know it and put the government funds into job training.

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Unread post by Kemosave » July 19th, 2005, 10:27 pm

It's a crazy unfair fallen world. There needs to be a safety net. Just what that safety net needs to be to do the most good is the real discussion in my opinion. Peace.

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