Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In Head

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Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In Head

Unread post by Common Sense » November 17th, 2004, 10:26 pm

A Marine unit came across a group of Insurgent fighters inside a mosque in Falloujah. A fire fight insued most were killed a few were badly wounded. They were left there to be picked up later.

A second Marine unit came across that very same mosque with the dead and wounded militia men. One Marine shouts that guy is f'king faking dead, he say's this two to three times. The wounded guy moved. The Marine shot him point blank in the head. All this was captured on video from the embedded NBC reporter and circulated worldwide.

What do you think?

Do you think the Marine was in the wrong?

I feel the wounded was fair game. He was putting in major work prior to his demise. Secondly..he was fighting from inside a mosque. A clear geneva convention violation. He was also part of the group holding the town hostage, and supported the beheading of those innocent civilians.

HE GOT WHAT HE HAD COMING TO HIM. leave the marine alone.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Kemosave » November 18th, 2004, 1:29 pm

It's war. The Marine knows his enemy and understands if the guy recovers he'll be out trying to kill Marines again in short order. Tragic situation all around no?

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by project blowed » November 18th, 2004, 3:07 pm

Common Sense wrote:A Marine unit came across a group of Insurgent fighters inside a mosque in Falloujah. A fire fight insued most were killed a few were badly wounded. They were left there to be picked up later.

A second Marine unit came across that very same mosque with the dead and wounded militia men. One Marine shouts that guy is f'king faking dead, he say's this two to three times. The wounded guy moved. The Marine shot him point blank in the head. All this was captured on video from the embedded NBC reporter and circulated worldwide.

What do you think?

Do you think the Marine was in the wrong?

I feel the wounded was fair game. He was putting in major work prior to his demise. Secondly..he was fighting from inside a mosque. A clear geneva convention violation. He was also part of the group holding the town hostage, and supported the beheading of those innocent civilians.

HE GOT WHAT HE HAD COMING TO HIM. leave the marine alone.
i kind of have mixed feelings in regards to this incident but it is true that the marine had a lot of experience and according to another report via cnn, had a couple of his comrades killed by a boobytrapped body exploded. the boobytrapped body appeared to be a suicide bomber posing to be a corpse/injured iraqi insurgent.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by project blowed » November 18th, 2004, 3:08 pm

Kemosave wrote:It's war. The Marine knows his enemy and understands if the guy recovers he'll be out trying to kill Marines again in short order. Tragic situation all around no?
very tragic, especially when this incident is overshadowing the recent killing of the iraqi peacekeeper/volunteer by iraqi terrorists.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by JONES » November 18th, 2004, 3:43 pm

kill or be killed.if he did not shoot the enemy,the enemy would of shot him

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Interested » November 27th, 2004, 4:48 pm

What some people don't get is? That the reality of war, like ol dude said Kill or be killed. All that wounded guy wanted to do is kill Marines in the First place, so why not kill him before some other marine died by his gun.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Chris. » November 27th, 2004, 6:19 pm

He deserved it...if the Marine was in his position he wouldve shot him too...those cameras dont need to be there, or just give that wounded insurgent a gun and once the marines turn their bac he'd a killed them

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by BlaKK » November 29th, 2004, 12:26 pm

The shooting was Justified. He faked his death. Thats against the Geneva Convention. The Marine was in the Right 100%. It's crazy how the ACLU is tryin to degrade thier own countrys military. Its just sick. Always give our troops the benfit of the doubt. Regardless.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by 1111§ » November 29th, 2004, 1:26 pm

You´ll never know what those terrorists are up to.He might have had a grenade to blow himself and others up in order to go to paradise and get his 72 virgins.The marine was right.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by BlaKK » November 29th, 2004, 1:53 pm

exactly

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Common Sense » November 29th, 2004, 3:25 pm

thrak wrote:He might have had a grenade to blow himself and others up in order to go to paradise and get his 72 virgins.
That's what's wrong with some of these knucleheads. Sexually frustrated.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Common Sense » November 29th, 2004, 3:34 pm

Marine shoots wounded insurgent in mosque

NEW YORK - The U.S. military said Tuesday it is investigating the videotaped fatal shooting of a wounded man by a U.S. Marine in a mosque in Fallujah. Iraqis condemned the act as "cowardice" and "something forbidden in Islam."

Investigators will determine whether the Marine acted in self-defense against what a spokesman described as an "enemy combatant."

The dramatic footage was taken Saturday by pool correspondent Kevin Sites of NBC television, whose report said the man who was killed didn't appear to be armed or threatening in any way, with no weapons visible in the mosque. The slain man was among a group of men wounded in fighting a day earlier at the mosque and left there. Three others in the group were also shot again Saturday by Marines, Sites said. advertisement




The Marine involved in the fatal shooting was withdrawn from the battlefield pending the results of the investigation, the U.S. military said.

"We follow the law of armed conflict and hold ourselves to a high standard of accountability," said Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, commanding general of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. "The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved."

The Marine statement said the investigators would look at "an allegation of the unlawful use of force in the death of an enemy combatant."

"The purpose of this investigation is to determine whether the Marine acted in self-defense, violated military law or failed to comply with the Law of Armed Conflict," it said.

Florian Westphal, a spokesman for the International Committee for the Red Cross, said he couldn't say for sure whether the men in the mosque were prisoners or not.

"The fact that was reported was that he was wounded. But whether he was already a prisoner or not was not clear to me," Westphal said.

"We cannot, on the basis of TV images - no matter how disturbing and disconcerting they are - arrive at a judgment about an incident. We were not on the spot so we cannot be aware of all the circumstances of this incident," he said.

"It's clearly recognized that people in combat situations are under enormous strain," Westphal said

But, he added, the Geneva Conventions are clear: Protection of wounded combatants once they are out of action is a basic rule.

Iraqi Interior Minister Falah Hassan al-Nagib said that while "killing a wounded person is rejected by us," the militants in Fallujah were responsible for their own brutal acts against Iraqis and foreigners, and were "killers and criminals."

Footage of the shooting was aired on Al-Jazeera television. Iraqis interviewed Tuesday in Baghdad harshly condemned the killing.

"It is something forbidden in Islam, an American killed an unarmed Iraqi prisoner inside a mosque," said Abdul-Sattar Naji.

Another Iraqi in Baghdad, Tareq Ali, called it "a criminal act" that "indicates the cowardice of the soldier who did that. The injured should be treated according to the law of wars."

Omar Ragib of the Sunni clerical Association of Muslim Scholars, said American troops "pay no heed" to the injured, the unarmed and the sanctity of mosques.

"We saw the troops entered the mosque after they shelled it," he said. "And we saw the effect of bombardment on the mosque walls."

U.S. and Iraqi commanders say gunmen frequently use mosques as refuges or fire on troops from the buildings.

The incident played out as the Marines 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment, came to the unidentified Fallujah mosque Saturday. Sites was embedded with the unit.

A day earlier, a different Marine unit came under fire from the same mosque. Those Marines stormed the building, killing 10 men and wounding five, Sites said. The Marines said the fighters in the mosque Friday were armed with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 rifles. The Marines treated the wounded, he reported, left them behind and continued on Friday with their drive to retake Fallujah.

The same five wounded men were still in the mosque on Saturday, when a another Marine unit - accompanied by Sites - came to the mosque, Sites said.

On the video, as the camera moved into the mosque Saturday, a Marine can be heard shouting obscenities in the background, yelling that one of the men was only pretending to be dead.

"He's (expletive) faking he's dead!"

"Yeah, he's breathing," another Marine is heard saying.

"He's faking he's (expletive) dead!" the first Marine says.

The video then showed a Marine raising his rifle toward an Iraqi lying on the floor of the mosque. The video shown by NBC and provided to the network pool was blacked out at that point and did not show the bullet hitting the man. But a rifle shot could be heard.

"He's dead now," a Marine is heard saying.

The blacked out portion of the videotape, provided later to Associated Press Television News and other members of the network pool, showed the bullet striking the first man in the upper body, possibly the head. His blood splatters on the wall behind him and his body goes limp.

It is unclear from the footage whether the body was moving before the shot. The only movement that can be seen is the body flinching at the impact of the bullets. Sites' report said the slain man didn't appear to be armed or threatening in any way, and there were no arms visible in the room.

The camera then shows two Americans pointing weapons at another man lying motionless. But one of the Marines steps back as the man stretches out his hand, motioning that he is alive. The Marines did not open fire on the man.

Sites reported that a Marine in the same unit had been killed a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent.

NBC reported that the Marine seen shooting the wounded combatant had himself been shot in the face the day before, but quickly returned to duty.

The Third Geneva Convention, the section of the 1949 treaty that applies to prisoners of war, says "persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat (out of combat) by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely."

It adds that "the wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for."

The judge advocate general heading the investigation, Lt. Col. Bob Miller, was asked by NBC News whether it was possible the Marine was acting in self-defense.

"The policy of the rules of engagement authorize the Marines to use force when presented with a hostile act or hostile intent," Miller said. "So they would have to be using force in self-defense, yes."

"Any wounded - in this case insurgents - who don't pose a threat would not be considered hostile," said Miller.

Charles Heyman, a senior defense analyst with Jane's Consultancy Group in Britain, defended the Marine's actions, saying the wounded man could have been concealing a firearm or grenade.

"In a combat infantry soldier's training, he is always taught that his enemy is at his most dangerous when he is severely wounded," Heyman said.

If the injured man makes even the slightest move, "in my estimation they would be justified in shooting him."

In the pool video, gunfire can be heard from inside the mosque Saturday as the unit accompanied by Sites approached. At the entrance, Marines who were already in the building emerge. They are asked by an approaching Marine lieutenant if there were insurgents inside and if the Marines had shot any of them. A Marine can be heard responding affirmatively. The lieutenant then asks if they were armed, and the Marine shrugs.

Sites' account said the wounded men were shot again by the Marines on Saturday.

The videotape showed two of the wounded propped against the wall. Sites said they were bleeding to death. According to his report, a third wounded man appeared already dead, while a fourth was severely wounded but breathing. The fifth was covered by a blanket but did not appear to have been shot again after the Marines returned. It was the fourth man who was shown being shot.

Al-Jazeera aired the unabridged version of the shooting footage, complete with a name visible on one Marine's backpack and the faces of the Marines, which were not shown on U.S. networks. There was no immediate comment on the tape from Middle Eastern governments because of a Muslim holiday.

Fallujah mosque shooting tape, complete with one name visible on a backpack and the faces of the Marines, which were not shown on U.S. networks. There was no immediate comment on the tape from Middle Eastern governments because of a Muslim holiday.

The CNN broadcast of the pictures obscured parts of the video that could identify the Marines involved.

NBC's Robert Padavick told members of the U.S. television pool that the Pentagon had ordered NBC and other pool members to make sure the Marine's identity was hidden because military authorities "are anticipating a criminal investigation as a result of this incident and do not want to implicate anybody ahead of that."

NBC spokeswoman Allison Gollust said the network did not show the man being shot because of its "graphic nature."

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by hitonme » December 12th, 2004, 5:25 pm

Put yourself in that position and you would of done the exact same thing as that marine did. Besides in war, you gotta kill your enemy first before he gets to you first and that is what the marine did.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 4th, 2005, 9:32 am

the second marine group did perhaps knew what was waiting inside before entering!!ha?
they had all chance to search the wounded or not;assuming they trapped themself!!or?
what should be the excuse for that behaviour?
Oh there is somebody moving opening his eyes so I get the closest I can(trap;get a knife),and as I can see close to hole situation if there are wires cabels,and so on ........
Would you like to wake up next to this guy in the morning?Put out an arm,then breathe in and open your eye.........?

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Common Sense » January 21st, 2005, 2:28 pm

This is the guy who is endagering the U.S. forces.


The shooting Saturday was videotaped by pool correspondent Kevin Sites of NBC television

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 21st, 2005, 7:54 pm

It truly warms my heart to hear so much support for our troops. People dont have to agree on why we are over there or if we should be over there, but support our troops period. That single man could of taken out the whole unit with a well placed grenade or he could of killed 20 americans the day before. Our troops lives are in danger over there and they have training, but everyone is human and i dont care what anyone says over there. If you in a high intense situation like that your scared so you are will protect yourself and protect your friends/unit as best you can.

I dont understand people expecting others to react perfectly in those high intense situations. Like if someone broke into my house i would use deadly force first and ask questions later no matter what. That person being there is a threat to my family as well as to myself. Am i supposed to wait and see if the man has a gun or knife? If i did wait to see a weapon i might be to slow to stop the threat. I'm sorry but i have two little girls and a wonderfull wife i dont want taken from me. Same applies to war.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 22nd, 2005, 5:43 am

but you would admitt there is a mistake ,if you see one?
I think this situation will be researched by psychologist,and what they will tell,is ,that this soldier was exactly what they were looking for recruiting.and that he is infact a killer who does what he likes.
You can be glad that they took him there,so he had not to fullfill his personal goal
in his home town.
Did you know you can detect those issues with electronic equipment that functions like a lying detector?Your bet please!

don`t bring the family onto the scene.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 22nd, 2005, 10:56 am

Trying to say that soldier is a stone cold killer? Shouting like that acting nervous? Sorry that boy was scared and stressed the hell out. You want to see what kind of people our troops are fighting? Go to ogrish.com thats real footage on there its no joke. Warning though they are VERY VERY graphic theres no editing or hiding anything there they show it all.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 22nd, 2005, 12:46 pm

do not buy it.you play this" game ", good or bad.even kids know what war is about.
The Iraqis were left there a day before or so.Think those went in on information and order by walkie talky.
This guy wasn`t at all in the mood his coleges were.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 22nd, 2005, 3:04 pm

I dont think you can make a educated statement what his mental state at that time was. Have you served in some sort of military force in a war? I know i would be jumpy the moment i stepped off that plane in Iraq. These people are shooting at him and trying to take his life and the life of his friends/unit. Even if this certain person wasnt there has been bodys of wounded people and dead people booby trapped. Its a time of war over there these people are savagely cutting peoples heads off even their own people. This soldier did over react but considering the situation hes in over in Iraq there is no way he should be punished.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 22nd, 2005, 3:29 pm

military is dealing with booby traps quite some years now.did they come forward?
again, the possibility is high,that they were informed about what their camerades left in there.If they make a show for the embeded reporter,and the counterstrike players at home,then sorry.
Your jumpy Marines also yell at poeple in houses searchings that they will f.....`em and stuff.To women and children.
Then, what is the deal to go into a like hospitally situation at daytime?

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 22nd, 2005, 4:01 pm

You think that soldier was showing off infront of camera's? I highly doubt this action was showing off. Well i guess you have given your point of view from of this and i have gave mine. We just agree to disagree i suppose.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 22nd, 2005, 5:20 pm

the equipe was prepared and in knowledge of the journalists work within their unit.i didn`t assume that he was showing off, that makes it your point.I wanted to make clear,that the unit was aware of the situation they expected in there.They were briefed and were able to show their skills live on object,integrating the press in a real but not to concearning situation,and could`ve saved at least one more live.
You can see ,thank god,on the tape ,that his camerades are already kneebending at their patients.
Of course he is guilty,and he knows it.(he should)

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 22nd, 2005, 5:58 pm

If they make a show for the embeded reporter,and the counterstrike players at home,then sorry.

Thats why i said what i said about you thinking he was showing off. Hard for me to discuss something with you because some sentances i have a hard time making out. Own your comment that you beleive his is guilty though instead of just saying he is guilty because that is not for you to decide. I dont think he took the most proper action by shooting that person but can also certianly sympathize with him under the stress of the war.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Common Sense » January 22nd, 2005, 6:02 pm

Maybe it was the proper action. Many of these insurgents would detonate themselves or a dead body after they get the Marines to come closer. Several days of that stuff...you start blastin' from a distance.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by kodiak » January 22nd, 2005, 6:16 pm

Might have been the proper action. I never served in the armed forces so unsure what their training says. I sure hope this soldier gets found not guilty though. I have composed a letter and sent it to my senator voicing my support for this soldier.

Anyone else know a better person to send a letter to voicing support?

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Mraka » January 31st, 2005, 10:24 am

better compost it,that"letter"!

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by BlaKK » January 31st, 2005, 4:34 pm

Kodiak, I thank you for that, Its sicc to beleive AMericans the same muthafuchas hes fighten for wanna Prosecute this soldier, FOr doin his job, killin a terrorists. Sicc made world.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Sentenza » January 31st, 2005, 4:46 pm

ok i didnt read all of the posts.....but if i d be in the soldiers situation maybe i d do the same just out of nervousness/nervosity (?).
I guess theres a lot of senseless and unjustified killing goin on in every war. But you cant blame the soldiers. Tehy are just puppets in a bigger game.
Blame the politicians of both sides for it.
Soldiers are always going crazy in war. Take a look at the history of wars....There have always been mad psychopath kids running around.
But thats what war makes out of people.
So stop wars before they start!!!

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by BlaKK » January 31st, 2005, 4:50 pm

war is eternal, Peace is nothing but that of a myth.

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by Sentenza » January 31st, 2005, 4:57 pm

yea but its strange istn it? cause takin it for ourselves we all want peace or not?

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Re: Marine Shoots Wounded Unarmed Insurgent Point Blank In H

Unread post by BlaKK » January 31st, 2005, 5:07 pm

IM already at PEace with myself, If everyone can come to that conclusion there would be no war, but that is irrelevent, cuz it will never happen mark my word. War is working inequitly to achieve vanity. But when the rain fall it wont fall on one mans doorstep.

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