Youtube of Chino Grande dissin snoop the R20's and MC Eiht

[Coup]

That last article had some extras on it and some serious questionable statements, but the overall attitude seems on point.....what kinda struck me was the Bulldog claim...if I am not mistaken the Bulldogs have no positive relationship with Souther Cal mexicans, so that "edict" does not work with them unless something has changed.....as a matter of fact...well I don't need to write anything else.

[MARTINEZ]

The Real,

I just picked out any line from your post:

Quote: "The racism that surs have for black folks, and their genocidal designs they have for black folks,...":

100% BS!!

I'm a straight Sureño, as well as all my homeboys I hang out with and party with.

1. I don't hate black folk.

2.. blacks are NOT even a topic amongst us, when we're drinking pisto together.

3.. genocidal designs ???? WTF..... we're are you getting this crap from.

I'm gonna turn into the BROWN VERSION of "The Real" to show you how ridiculous you sound

".... My brown Chicano brothers.....For many decades The black devils would rob us, jack us, beat up our paisa uncles, taking away their hard earn minimum wage money, The black devils are
trying to kill and destroy entire Mexican community, We must rise from the ashes of their devilish oppression...."

GET THE FUC-K OUTTA HERE with that shit "Real"

You shit you preach is "NOT real."

Martinez

[StreetKnowledge]

Good Point Martinez, Im Black Myself, But I Repect You For Not Letting The Other Rasicts Fools On Here Influence You Be Like Them. You Bring Out Good Points

[MARTINEZ]

Good Point Martinez, Im Black Myself, But I Repect You For Not Letting The Other Rasicts Fools On Here Influence You Be Like Them. You Bring Out Good Points

StreetKnowledge: Cool

Someone's gotta "turn off the fire alarm in the crowded theatre"!

---------------

And just to keep shit in perspective.

As a SURENO myself, IF I did harbor racist hatred in me, as "the real" would have everyone believe all Sureños do and have this way out super top secret agenda to commit genocide.

Where's the best place to spew my venom ????

Fuc-k ...the internet!
Where scary muthafuckas become Triple O.G.'s even though they ain't never banged! Never been in the back seat of a cop car!

Who's gonna run up on me if I put any of that racist shit up. ...NOBODY.

But I don't write that shit cause it ain't me.

"....For out of the heart, the mouth speaks (or in this case, types)"

Martinez
THE LOTT 'SURENOS 13
~ East Los Angeles ~

-----------

P.S. - To The Real - Ay homie, I don't even hate on you for all your negative posts about my Raza,
BUT..... I think you outta write novels or movies from now on.....
you'd make a shit load of money with your imagination.

[Shox112]

That last article had some extras on it and some serious questionable statements, but the overall attitude seems on point.....what kinda struck me was the Bulldog claim...if I am not mistaken the Bulldogs have no positive relationship with Souther Cal mexicans, so that "edict" does not work with them unless something has changed.....as a matter of fact...well I don't need to write anything else.

u need to calm down with that dissin homie

[TheReal]

To Martinez:

(I know I said I was coming back Wednesday, and I will, but before I do, I just had to handle this one...)

He said:

I just picked out any line from your post:

My response:

Which line was that?

His response:

Quote: "The racism that surs have for black folks, and their genocidal designs they have for black folks,...":

He said:

100% BS!!

My response:

Oh really?

He said:

I'm a straight Sureño, as well as all my homeboys I hang out with and party with.

1. I don't hate black folk.

My response:

You don't have to hate black folks, as an individual Sureno, in order for your sur brethren as a collective, to have a genocidal agenda for black folks. It's like this former klansmen Robert Byrd, telling the media that even though he was a klansman, he never harbored hatred towards black folks personally, or as a group.

Or it's like Norman Rockwell, the former head of the American Nazi Party, who claimed that he didn't hate black people, but rather he just felt that they ought to have been deported, or wiped off the map.

Now mind you, I'm not saying that you yourself feel that black folks ought to be deported back to Africa (then again, you deep down probably do), or wiped off the map, but I damn sure know that the collective core of your brethren do indeed feel that way, and let black folks, by way of these racist incidents, know in no uncertain terms-THAT GENOCIDE IS THE GAME THAT THEY ARE PROMOTING AGAINST BLACK FOLKS!

I don't care about you personally, or what your personally philosophy is, the fact of the matter is surenos, as a collective, are racist and genocidal in their designs against black folks, and no matter how much you, or some other benign sureno try to come off, because of your own personal dispositions regarding race, it will never dissolve, or dissuade the fact that your sur brethren as a collective core, if not consciously, but subconsciously, want to commit genocide on the total black L.A. community.

This is why surs, and the way they roll, is predicated on them, in many instances, targeting innocent black civilians, who are obviously not gang members, but rather their uniform of blackness, in your brothers’ eyes, is their great sin.

Instead of you trying to preach to black folks, about how not bad your sur brethren really are, in their neo-nazi and racist designs upon black folks, what you ought to do, as an old head-IS PREACH THAT MESSAGE TO YOUR OWN PEOPLE!!! But I guess that's too much like right, huh?

And you know what? I was about to jump ahead of myself.

Let me continue on further down this page...

He said:

2.. blacks are NOT even a topic amongst us, when we're drinking pisto together.

My response:

When neo-nazis, or klansmen get together, I'm sure that they don't always talk about kikes, niggers, wetbacks and the other "mud" people, but that doesn't mean, again, that their collective agenda for these people (some of these people more so than others)-ISN’T THAT OF GENOCIDE, IF NOT PHYSICALLY, THEN SOCIALLY!

He said:

3.. genocidal designs ???? WTF..... we're are you getting this crap from.

My response:

I'm getting it from the fact that surs intentionally target innocent black civilians, even if they know that they aren't gang affiliated. I get it from the fact that many in your community have a deep down resentment and hatred for black folks, because you feel that black folks during their protest movements for social change, didn't include mexicans/chicanos. I get it from the fact that many within your community feel that black folks are unjust beneficiaries of white largesse, which should've really gone to your people, because 1) many of your people feel superior to blacks; and 2) you feel that black folks, especially those who live in the southwest, don't deserve anything, but rather mexicans/chicanos ought to get first dibs at whatever comes down the pike, seeing as how the southwest once belonged to mexico, and was once the land of "Aztlan (yeah, you know what I'm talking about)," therefore you believe that black folks have a right to exist in the southwestern states; etc.

As a result, many of you feel that just because you have the powers and numbers, that the scourge which is black folks-a people who are living on “your land (again, you know this what your people preach; you may be able to fool naive black folks, or unsophisticated black folks, but not yours truly)” undeservedly-that it is your collective mission, whether it be unconscious, or conscious, but deeply rooted in the collective subconscious of your people, to make black folks suffer for their perceived offenses.

This expression of resentment and hatred, whether it is subtle or overt, is expressed in an extreme way, by your sur brethren, who enact intentional genocidal violence against the total black community, barring none. Again, you being an older, more mature sureno, don’t absolve the fact that surenos are brown nazis, or klans with a tan.

He said:

I'm gonna turn into the BROWN VERSION of "The Real" to show you how ridiculous you sound

My response:

This I gotsta hear!

He said:

".... My brown Chicano brothers.....For many decades The black devils would rob us, jack us, beat up our paisa uncles, taking away their hard earn minimum wage money, The black devils are
trying to kill and destroy entire Mexican community, We must rise from the ashes of their devilish oppression...."

My response:

Again, you're not dealing with a naive black person, and unsophisticated black person, and a shortsighted thinking black person, who feels that blacks and mexicans are latent brothers and sisters, and that we need to collectively wake up together, AND TAKE IT TO THE REAL ENEMY!

Oh no my friend! You see, regardless of what you try to claim about black folks, and their STREET crimes against mexicans back in the day, IT STILL DIDN'T COMPARE TO THE BLACK ON BLACK CRIME, THAT BLACK FOLKS INFLICTED ON EACH OTHER! Back in the day, the heavy crime wave of black gangs and black criminals, spilled over into those areas of people that were closest to them-MEXICANS AND WHOEVER ELSE, BECAUSE OF MEXICANS CLOSE PROXIMITY TO BLACK CRIMINALS LIVING IN BLACK HOODS!!

I had an uncle who was set ablaze by some crips; I had a friend shot up in a phone booth by some bloods; I've had relatives who were in gangs back in the day, whose whole families were targeted, beaten, raped and some murdered; etc.. Now mind you, this is during the so-called burning time, from back in the day, that mexicans like yourself refer to, when you claim black gang oppression, when black gangs ruled the streets.

And again, I'm not bringing up my horror stories at the hands of black gangs, to bash or diminish yours, but I am placing this shit into some perspective here. Back in the day, of course certain mexicans were going to be fucked with, especially if they lived in a high crime rate area!!! What? You thought that they were going to be free of attacks, similar to a person walking through the rain, and never getting touched, not even by one solitary drop?

With that said, you have to admit, and any person who can remember the 70's, all of the 80's and early 90's, that despite the fact that black gangs were not angels, and still are not angels, BLACK GANGS AS A WHOLE, NEVER INTENTIONALLY WENT OUT AND TARGETED INNOCENT MEXICAN CIVILIANS FOR MURDER, THE WAY YOUR SUR BRETHREN DO TO BLACK FOLKS NOWADAYS! Black dominated hoods, back in the day, would even allow little start up barrios to exist on their very same block or territory, where there was about 100 black gang members, and only 10 to 20 of your kind, BUT THE BLACK GANGS WOULDN'T EVEN FUCK WITH THEM, BUT RATHER, THEY ALLOWED THEM TO BREATHE AND LIVE!

But guess what? These same black gangs would bypass these sur barrios, with about 10 to 20 members, and go over into another area, that is predominantly black gang dominated, with about 50 to 100 members-AND START WAR WITH THEIR OWN BRETHREN!!

Hell!! I even remember ese surs, with their barrios in predominantly black gang areas, even ride with some of these black gangs, as they took on another black hood. Hell! I even remember some black gangs helping surs, take on other sur enemies, as well as black enemies: TELL ME I'M LYING!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, you had your conflicts back in the day, between black and brown-I'm not saying that the shit was perfect, because no situation is: BUT IT WASN’T AS BAD AS IT IS TODAY! Back in those days, each race, by and large, respected each other's territory, and generally co-existed and tolerated each other for the most part.

If any group inserted racism into this thing, IT WAS THE SURS!! The surs are the cause of all this racial animosity, tension, genocidal killings, and present darkness. Again, the crips and the bloods weren't perfect, BUT THEY DIDN'T INTRODUCE ALL THIS OPPRESSIVE RACIAL SHIT! Again, it was YOUR PEOPLE, your SUR BRETHREN, who started all this BS!

This is why L.A. is turning into a racial jungle, equivalent to a sci-fi movie.

And all this talk about how black folks use to dump on mexicans/chicanos back in the day-IS BS!!! Black folks didn't commit genocide on your people, or make it soooooooooo intolerable, to where your folks couldn't thrive in those black areas. I even remember black folks overlooking a chicano or chicana, who would walk through their hood, just to target a black person walking down the same street-I REMEMBER THAT SHIT, AND GOT STORIES GALORE ON THAT SHIT!

Naw man, if you want to have a snapshot of how chicanos fared in black communities back in the day, in black gang dominated areas, JUST CHECK OUT BLACK GANG DOMINATED AREAS TODAY, AND THE MEXICANS THAT LIVE IN THOSE AREAS, AND SEE HOW THEY FARE!! I mean you have mexicans living in deep black gang areas-AND THEY HARDLY EVER GET FUCKED WITH!!!

Now mind you, I'm not saying that it's a crystal stair, and an easy walk, BUT I DAMN SURE KNOW THAT THEY FARE FAAAAAAAAAAAR MUCH BETTER THAN BLACK FOLKS WHO LIVE IN SUR DOMINATED AREAS, AND YOU KNOW THIS-BUT YET MANY OF YOU CLAIM THAT BLACK FOLKS ARE MORE RACIST THAN YOUR PEOPLE!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Truth be told, your people have to concoct from whole cloth, some genocidal pogrom your kind supposedly experienced at the hands of black folks, during the "oppressive" days when black gangs dominated the streets, in order to justify your own people's racist and genocidal designs upon the black community in the present!

Hell, black folks didn't enslave mexicans, take their land, lynch them, deprived them of the vote, etc.-BUT YET YOU, AND YOUR KIND WOULD WANT TO MAKE OUT AS IF WE WERE SUCH VICIOUS VILLAINS, TO AGAIN, JUSTIFY YOUR RACIST HATRED TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS IN THE PRESENT!!

This is why mexicans, whether they be racist, non-racist, borderline racist and the like, will always say, concerning the racial tensions between blacks and mexicans, that the racial tensions we now see-WILL NEVER CHANGE AND GO AWAY!

Why? Because what they're telling you black man and black woman, is that there's a debt that black folks owe, and that debt will never be paid, unless there are black lives taken in the process-THEN EVEN THAT WOULDN’T SUFFICE, UNTIL THERE’S TOTAL SUBJUGATION, NEUTRALIZATION, AND/OR ANNIHILATION, OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHWEST, BEGINNING IN L.A. COUNTY AND SO. CAL! Furthermore, they will tell you that the racist tensions between black and brown will never go away, BECAUSE THEY KNOW JUST HOW UNDYINGLY RACIST, MANY OF THEIR OWN KIND ARE, TO WHERE THEY REALIZE THAT WITH MANY OF THEM, HATING, FIGHTING AND KILLING BLACK FOLKS-ARE NECESSARY EVILS AND RITES OF PASSAGES!!!!

Again, individual surs or sur sympathizers, may say that they don't like the tension between blacks and mexicans, and that they're not for the targeting of innocent black civilians, but they nevertheless feel that the targeting of innocent black civilians, by their sur brethren, are necessary evils, or dirty deeds that someone has to do-IN ORDER FOR CHICANO DOMINATION AND THE BROWN FIST, TO REIGN SUPREME!

Tell me I'm lying!

I can say more on this, but will do so tomorrow!

He said:

GET THE FUC-K OUTTA HERE with that shit "Real"

You shit you preach is "NOT real."

My response:

I know you would like to think this, but contained within my "preachings", IS THE REALEST SHIT YOU'VE EVER READ!

[TheReal]

(Tell me I'm lying...)


Racist Mexican Gangs "Ethnic Cleansing" Blacks In L.A.
Latino thugs indiscriminately murder blacks regardless of gang membership, genocidal purge aligns with radical Aztlan theology

Prison Planet | January 22, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Racist Mexican gangs are indiscriminately targeting blacks who aren't even involved in gang culture, as part of an orchestrated ethnic cleansing program that is forcing black people to flee Los Angeles. The culprit of the carnage is the radical Neo-Nazi liberation theology known as La Raca, which calls for the extermination of all races in America besides Latinos, and is being bankrolled by some of the biggest Globalists in the U.S.

A story carried on the liberal website Alternet , charts an explosion in brutal murders of blacks by Hispanic street gangs in L.A. Far from being gang on gang violence, the Latinos are targeting innocent blacks in accordance with a concerted ethnic cleansing campaign that seeks to eradicate all blacks from Hispanic neighborhoods.

In one instance, 21-year-old Anthony Prudhomme was shot in the face with a .25-caliber semi-automatic while lying on a futon inside his apartment, slain by a Latino gang known as the Avenues as part of a racist terror campaign in which gang members earn "stripes" for each black person they kill.

In one typical case," writes journalist Brentin Mock, "Three members of the Pomona 12 attacked an African-American teenager, Kareem Williams, in his front yard in 2002. When his uncle, Roy Williams, ran to help his nephew, gang member Richard Diaz told him, "Niggers have no business living in Pomona because this is 12th Street territory." According to witnesses, Diaz then told the other gang members, "Pull out the gun! Shoot the niggers! Shoot the niggers!"

The fatwah against blacks began in the mid-nineties, with a 1995 LAPD report concluding that Latinos had vowed to "Eradicate black citizens from the gang neighborhood." In a follow up report on the situation in east Los Angeles, the LAPD warned that "Local gangs will attack any black person that comes into the city."

The author notes that since 1990 the African-American population of Los Angeles has halved, partly as a result of rampant illegal immigration and that there are noticeably fewer blacks walking the streets because many have been forced to relocate in fear of the racist gangs.

"The LAPD estimates there are now 22,000 Latino gang members in the city of Los Angeles alone. That's not only more than all the Crips and the Bloods; it's more than all black, Asian, and white gang members combined. Almost all of those Latino gang members in L.A. -- let alone those in other California cities -- are loyal to the Mexican Mafia. Most have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the Mexican Mafia's violent racism during stints in prison, where most gangs are racially based," writes Mock.

Mock blames the "Mexican Mafia" for ordering the campaign of ethnic cleansing from prison, as part of a turf war with the Black Guerilla family, another prison gang, but fails to pinpoint the racist creed from which the Mexican kingpins draw their inspiration - the long standing Aztlan invasion agenda.

Aztlan's goal, known as La reconquista, is to cede and take over the entirety of the southern and western states by any means necessary and impose a Communist militant dictatorship. President Bush's blanket amnesty program goes a long way to helping the extremists achieve their aim.

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Despite the fact that the majority of documented hispanics oppose illegal immigration , as do the majority of Americans , Aztlan and La Raca race hate groups have become the self-appointed voice for a separatist movement that threatens a violent overthrow of the Constitutional system and a barbaric program of ethnic cleansing. This is held up by the media as 'diversity' and to vociferously oppose it is scorned as racism.

Aztlan and Mecha groups advocate killing all whites and blacks and driving them out of the southern states by means of brutal ethnic cleansing. Flags and placards carried at marches depict white people having their heads cut off, as seen in the picture below.

Those that protest such groups are then attacked by the establishment media and labeled as racists, despite the fact that the Plan of San Diego , a rallying cry for the hispanic Klan groups, advocates total eradication of any race but hispanics.

Mecha's own slogan reads, "For the race everything. For those outside the race, nothing."

TV stations owned by rich white industrialists erect giant billboards in Los Angeles claiming the city belongs to Mexico, as seen below.

Mainstream hispanics who love America abhor the virulent racism that the Mexican klan groups embrace.

And who bankrolls these pocket radicals? Billionaire tax-exempt foundations and NGO's owned by white men. Organizations like the Ford Foundation , groups who are zealous in their quest to eliminate the middle class and destroy America, turning it into a cashless society, compact city, surveillance control grid where only two tiers of society exist - the elite and the poor slaves.

During the May immigration protests, The Aztlan website carried the following statement.

"If the racist "Sensenbrenner Legislation" passes the US Senate, there is no doubt that a massive civil disobedience movement will emerge. Eventually labor union power can merge with the immigrant civil rights and "Immigrant Sanctuary" movements to enable us to either form a new political party or to do heavy duty reforming of the existing Democratic Party. The next and final steps would follow and that is to elect our own governors of all the states within Aztlan."

Here is the open call for violent separatism and the overthrow of existing state government structures.

During the immigration demonstrations, which were orchestrated by Rob Allyn of Rob Allyn & Co. who is closely tied with George W. Bush, alarming reports of illegals carrying out violent beatings began to surface. In Santa Ana California, illegal aliens swarmed around in mobs invading schools, carrying out violent beatings and in one incident a county worker had a Mexican flag plunged into his chest.

The violent protests that began on May 1 last year were characterized by throngs marching under Mexican flags, many of which were illegal aliens, as a "day without gringos."

Imagine what the reaction would be if white middle class Americans marched in their millions and called the event "a day without blacks."

The media continues to run defense for a violent militant movement that seeks nothing less than the eradication of blacks and whites through ethnic cleansing and the takeover of the southern and western states. This is a separatist junta that has over 30,000 ruthless gang members at its disposal once the call for mobilization is heard, along with millions of illegal aliens pouring across the border.

These thugs have the temerity to call Latinos, blacks and whites who are opposed to uncontrolled illegal immigration racists when it is their own La reconquista philosophy that has spawned target hits in Los Angeles as part of a virulently racist ethnic cleansing rampage. It's a bloodlust that can only spread to other cities as the realization of Aztlan is generously aided by billionaire Globalists who wish to see America balkanized, plundered and destroyed.

[MARTINEZ]

the real: Quote: "Tell me I'm lying! ..."

Martinez: Your lying.

End of discussion.

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

The Real:

All I got to say is this. There are racist people (and non racist) in every race, every color, every creed, every religion, every nationality, every gang, every prison, every street on this earth. For anybody to say otherwise is in fact RACIST. Is Big A lying?

[stamps]

To Stamps:

I said:


In other words, you accuse me of being a black racist, because I would view fools like you as a racist for giving me the dirty eye, when in reality-HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? ARE YOU NOW READING MY MIND?

He said:

No, I'm reading your posts.

My response:

Yeah, you are reading my posts, but you are placing your own spin on them, because you are a racist, and are detached and insensitive to the issues at hand because you’re white. Moreover, as I said before, you are cheerleading for the mexicans on this one, for various reasons, least of which lies in the fact that you feel more of a kinship with mexicans, and you internalize the accusations and attacks I make upon mexicans, with what I would possibly do against white folks, amongst other things.

Again, this is what makes you a RACIST!


I said:


Man, that’s the height of arrogance. You up there accusing me of the very same thing you’re doing to me, but yet you call me a racist mind reader, and you’re not?

He said:

No

My response:

This is why again; I claim that you are the epitome and the height of arrogance, seeing as how you’re trying to remove a speck out of my eye, whereas you have a whole telephone pole lodged in yours.

This is another example of a racist, or latent racist, at the very least…


I said:

TheReal said:

(Where’s my quote?)

Then he said:

But no, I wouldn't think that. I do, however; have a strange feeling you don't believe me.

Then I said:

Hmmmmmmm…I wonder how you were able to come to that conclusion? Was it mind reading, or the use of Ummin, or Thummin?

Whereas he said:

No,,not mind reading, just a "Strange Feeling". They're different.

My response:

This is what makes you what? A SOOTHSAYER, OR PSYCHIC? Look fool, no matter how much you try and spin the situation, you are accusing me of mind reading, when I accuse certain mexicans of racist behavior, only for you to turn around and have the audacity to claim that I am a racist, by using an asinine example which dealt with me supposedly thinking that a white person would be a racist, and wanted to call me a “nigger”, just because he gave me the dirty eye.

This right here, I’m assuming, you feel is an example based on certain perceptions, “strange feelings”, or observations/experiences you’ve had in the past, and in your racist, myopic, shortsighted eyes, you feel that your position is legitimate, even though you have no proof whatsoever, that I would indeed react in such a way. HOWEVER, when I label that as someone who engages in again, MINDREADING-you try to justify your BS in your own eyes, by implying that your presumptions are based on “scientific” data, or some spooky feelings that you have, whereas my observations, experiences, and perceptions that I have of those within the Mexican community, IS SIMPLY BASED ON MINDREADING ALONE!

Simply put, you feel that your accrual of data, and assessments is more legitimate than mine, just because you are WHITE, and that mine are based on frivolous motives, without any intelligent thought put into the process, simply because I AM BLACK!

This again-IS WHAT MAKES YOU A WHITE RACIST!

I said:

It’s kinda like throwing a rock, and then hiding your hand, and accusing the other person whom you threw the rock at, as being a troublemaker, because he punched you in the nose, when in reality, the person who threw the rock is the real troublemaker.

He said:

Thanks for the stupid analogy. Are you going to teach me how to walk on rice paper now?

My response:

Well you’re welcomed for the analogy, but as far as it being stupid, well-IF YOU’RE NOT ABLE TO SEE THE ALLEGORICAL CONNECTION, THEN YOU MY FRIEND, ARE JUST THAT SLOW!

Other folks can get where I’m coming from, and did indeed catch the connection within my “stupid” analogy, so an idiot like you telling me that my analogy was “stupid”, is like a 5 year old kid telling Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, THAT HE’S GOING TO KICK HIS ASS; or a retarded person telling me that I’m stupid, because I believe that 2+2=4!

Naw man, it’s not so much that my analogy is incomprehensible or “stupid,” but rather it’s a telltale sign of your stupidity, especially if you believe that an idiot like you, holds any truck on what is stupid or not stupid, when it comes to anything I have to say.

With a racist like yourself, you’d say I was wrong, or “stupid,” even if you knew I was right, just for effects purposes, as well as to hide the fact that you’re a DUMBASS!

Then again, I digress…

I said:

No dumbass, I’m not mind reading, rather I’m making a character assessment, based on the preponderance of the evidence. As I said previously, everyone does it, and so do you. To deprive me of such a right, especially when I hit targets that you’re sensitive about concerning race, IS WHAT MAKES YOU A RACIST!

Whereas he said:

Yes, your right. I make character assessments too. Based on the preponderance of evidence, your a racist.


My response:

To the contrary, you’re supposed “preponderance of evidence” supposedly betrays me, in your eyes, as someone who’s a pseudo mind reader, and who’s speaking out of his ass, despite the “preponderance of evidence” I put forth, in regards to my life’s experiences, observations and take on the matter. Whereas my “preponderance of evidence” holds no water, or weight with yours truly, for various ignoble reasons, least of which, is because YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST, and I am black!

You see, you feel that just because you are white, as I said before in the above, your perceptions hold more water, and have more validity, because of your supposed observations, than anything I have to say, which is the epitome of how a white supremacist would think, even those white folks who claim to be non-racist, borderline racist, etc.

Again, this is what makes you, I’m sorry-A WHITE RACIST! A hypocritical, arrogant, haughty, my opinion is above all, WHITE RACIST!



I said:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!! What marvelous insight!!! But as I said before, so say I now and again, JUST BECAUSE IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, DOESN’T’ MEAN THAT MY PERSONAL OPINION ISN’T FACTUAL, NOW DOES IT?

Whereas he said:

Opinions are not facts..AND, although one can form an opinion BASED on facts,,opinions are also largly influenced by perceptions.


My response:

Thanks for repeating what I’ve said in the above, which in summary states that yes-opinions aren’t facts (neither have I implied that they were), and that opinions, despite them being opinions, doesn’t mean that the opinions, that are based on perceptions-AREN’T FACTUAL!

Well yeah, thanks for buttressing my point on this matter, and?

He further went on to say:

If one is a sick racists, who constantly dwells on the issue (like you), then your perception will definately be distorted.

My response:

The only one who’s a “sick racist” between the two of us, IS YOU SICK WHITE RACIST! You’re sick because you actually feel that your opinions/positions that are based on your own personal perceptions and observations are more legitimate than mine: at least that’s what you’re pretending to believe.

Why? Because again, in your eyes, my perceptions aren’t legitimate, based on any experiences I’ve had, but rather distorted perceptions, because of my own personal prejudices, as opposed to how things really are. You see, with me, you claim that you want studies to be put forth, in the form of scientific data, because a black person is just too emotional to come to any concrete, logical conclusions, on the topic of race, whereas with a white person like yourself, all you would need to do is make personal assessments, based on personal perceptions and experiences, and VOILA-whatever you say is the GOLD STANDARD, WITH THE IMPLICATION THAT IT IS THE GOLD STANDARD, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WHITE!

Again, this is why I call you a WHITE RACIST, regardless of how you view your own self. The reality says something different…

I said:

Look dilettante fool, this is something that YOU as an outsider must do (conduct a study), seeing as how YOU yourself aren’t caught up within the maelstrom of what’s going on between black and brown, WHEREAS I, AND OTHER BLACK FOLKS ON THIS THREAD, ARE!

OH,,,I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. Would that "Maelstrom" include, say......getting shot at by truck loads of Mexican day laborer's on their way to the orange groves? Or...being mad dogged or threatened by the dishwasher at Alberto's? Or....chased home everyday by your neighbor's Mexican immigrant landscaper??? (That can be scary if he's reving up the leaf blower attached to his back). Or...maybe your talking about Sureno's????


My response:

Again, this just goes to show you the ignorance, the arrogance, and how out of touch this fool is on the matter.

Look racist idiot, all the people that you just mentioned, by and large, fall under the category of those who are newly arrived in this country, or “illegal aliens.” It’s important for me to make this observation because naïve and gullible dunces like you, will look at these folks, and misconstrue the plight they experience and travail, with those mexicans, or even Hispanics in general (seeing as how you like to take it there), who are born in this country, and who are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ad infinitum, generations. U.S. born mexicans don’t face their driver’s licenses being taken away from them, or face the prospect of being deported, etc.

Hell, U.S. born Mexican Americans will even tell you that there are differences in how they perceive things, in comparison to how their own “border” brothers perceive things, when it comes to gangs, race, etc.

So you telling me about some newly arrived Mexican immigrants, on their way to work, in order to offset my argument about the racist perceptions many mexicans have towards black folks in this country, is like me saying that black folks don’t have a black on black crime problem, because of some newly arrived, hard working, Sudanese or Ethiopian folks, on their way to work, paint a different reality of hard working black folks, or black folks in general.

Notwithstanding, as some eses have pointed out to me in real life, as well on cyberspace (even on this forum), those mexicans that have been here for generations, and/or have assimilated into the mainstream U.S., are those who holds such racist views against black folks (the views that I have pointed out in my previous posts), or at the very least, are members of racist sur gangs.

Having said that, please try again, with your sophist dilettante, racist “intelligence” data…

I said:


Oh, so this is what this is all about? You attack me in a vicarious and retro active way, because you feel that the same heat I’m throwing at mexicans, is in essence the same heat that I can potentially throw at white folks! Man you are a racist.

He said:

No, I've read many of your posts where you refer to White people as "White Devil's"..so I guess it is retroactive..LOL!


My response:

I know, AND IT WAS THOSE WHO WERE NEO-NAZIS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS, FOOL, NOT THE GENERAL POPULATION OF WHITES! HOWEVER, going back and forth with you, I may have to reconsider my position on what type of white folks I label as devils.

(On a sidenote, not that I have to admit to this, but on black websites, I even refer to certain ones of my own race as devils, and if I refer to certain ones of my own race as devils, how in the hell do you think, or perceive, that I would spare racist whites, like you, from the word “devil”? Again, what arrogance…)

I said:


This goes back to what I said in my previous post, in regards to you catching feelings because I’m attacking a group you may feel kinship with, thus your supposed rational and diplomatic approach on this discussion, which in reality masks a racist agenda, which ultimately takes sides.

And whatever side you’re on, IT AIN’T MY PEOPLE’S SIDE!

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again-IF A MEXICAN HAD OF SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT BLACKS, WHAT I SAID ABOUT MEXICANS, YOU AND THAT MEXICAN WOULDN’T BE HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION YOU AND I ARE NOW HAVING.

He said:

Don't pat yourself on the back fool. I doubt you speak for all Black people.

My response:

First of all, I’m not that vain of a person, to pat myself on the back, in order to receive self-gratification, similar to how you beat your meat in private. Furthermore, I never claimed I spoke for all black people. As a matter of fact, I DON’T HAVE TO SPEAK FOR ALL BLACK PEOPLE, IN ORDER FOR MY VIEWS TO BE LEGITIMATE, OR TO BE PUT FORTH!

Proclaiming the truth is just that-PROCLAIMING THE TRUTH, REGARDLESS OF WHO BELIEVES IT OR NOT, OR SUPPORTS IT OR NOT! Not only that, I may not speak for all black people, but many black people do hold my views, and there’s beginning to become enough of them, because of our shared experiences, to cause a ripple in this discussion.

On the same token, I may not speak for all black folks, but I damn sure know one thing-NEITHER DO YOU!


He said:

And I've said this before, I hate racists no matter what color they are.

My response:

Then self-hatred is a motherfucker. With that said-WHAT DOES EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID, HAS TO DO WITH THIS STATEMENT OF MINE:

“This goes back to what I said in my previous post, in regards to you catching feelings because I’m attacking a group you may feel kinship with, thus your supposed rational and diplomatic approach on this discussion, which in reality masks a racist agenda, which ultimately takes sides.

And whatever side you’re on, IT AIN’T MY PEOPLE’S SIDE!”

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again-IF A MEXICAN HAD OF SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT BLACKS, WHAT I SAID ABOUT MEXICANS, YOU AND THAT MEXICAN WOULDN’T BE HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION YOU AND I ARE NOW HAVING.”

I’ll tell you what-NOT A DAMN THING!!!

I said:


And trust me, that teaching is put forth more so towards black folks, so as to pacify our rage, more so than it is towards the offenders (racist surs and their sympathizers/racist mexicans/latently racist mexicans), in an attempt to squash any actions from black folks.

He said:

Isn't that a positive thing?


My response:

No it isn’t, especially if you’re not as equally passionate in attacking the other side, for their racist wrongdoings. It’s like me blaming the victim of a gratuitous beat down, or ass whipping, even rape, of having undue and unjustified hatred, rage and righteous indignation towards his attackers, whereas you never put forth any reprisals, admonitions, not even a reprimand, or a cease and desist call, towards those who are brutalizing, beating down, and raping, the victims.

This is what makes folks like you hypocritical, and ultimately a racist!!!


But then again, you’re probably to simple-minded to catch this analogy, seeing as how a slowpoke like you appears to constantly incapable of abstract thought…

I said:

Man, I am astounded by your arrogance and lack of discernment, and foot in the mouth persona. Look fool, I’m not in the NOI, and never have been a part of the NOI, so you can, in many ways make personal attacks against these folks, in regards to them being racist, and it would in many ways, make me no never mind.
He said:

Well in that case, I'll take my foot out of my mouth. I'll give you that.


My response:

And take your head out of your ass, while you’re at it!


I said:

I know about nortenos allying with the BGF, hell, I KNOW OF ESES WHO ARE FRIENDS WITH BLACK FOLKS IN SO. CALI!! But again, THAT STILL DOESN’T TAKE AWAY THE ANGST THAT MANY MEXICANS HAVE FOR BLACK FOLKS, WHICH IS ARTICULATED IN MY POST TO J, NOW DOES IT? The BGF and Norteno alliance is a local thing fool, I’M LOOKING AT IT FROM A NATIONAL LEVEL, whereas you want to sequester everything within a neat package of gangland warfare.

He said:

What's happening in So Cal is NOT happening on this level nationally


My response:

Just because the gang culture that exists in So. Cal. ain’t happening nationally, because of So. Cal’s distinct and unique gang history, DOESN’T MEAN THAT BLACKS AND MEXICANS ARE GETTING ALONG JUST FINE, HOLDING HANDS AND SINGING CUMBAYA, FOOL, ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY THE SOUTHWEST WHERE THEY DOMINATE!!

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again, the So. Cal. sur versus black gang warfare and prison politics, that has spread out into the streets, is just a symptom, and extreme example, of the racism and beliefs, that many mexicans across the country, whether they are affiliated, or not-have for black folks.

In areas such as Texas, and other parts of the southwest, where mexicans have the numbers, prison politics aren’t really an issue per se, but black folks who live amongst these folks, in these states outside of Cali, many of them-would admit to experiencing the type of racism that blacks are experiencing in Cali, only on a lesser level. And the racism that many of these black folks face, is rooted in the Mexican racism towards black folks that believe that black folks have no culture, and the culture we do have, we took from them; black folks have been beneficiaries of white largesse undeservedly for far too long, and now it’s ‘our time” to shine, and the niggers better watch out; black folks have oppressed us on a street level, therefore any acts of violence committed against them by mexicans that are racial, even though it’s not my cup of tea, is nevertheless, POETIC JUSTICE AND MEXICAN VENGEANCE; black folks by and large are lazy; black folks are selfish because during their historical protest movements, they didn’t reach out to mexicans (like mexicans reached out to black folks during their movements; hell, up until the early 70’s, MEXICANS WERE CONSIDERED WHITE ANYWAY), etc…

These are the general sentiments that lie within the general Mexican population, rather they are racist, non-racist, latently racist, or whatever. As a matter of fact, just this year, there was a study done, where they asked latinos to give them their opinions on African-americans, and guess what? THEIR VIEWS ON BLACK FOLKS WERE OVERWHELMINGLY NEGATIVE!

Simply put, regardless of what you want to think, as I said before, so say I now and again, THE RACISM THAT SURS ESPOUSE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS, WASN’T CREATED IN A VACUUM, NOR INCUBATED AND BROUGHT TO BIRTH, SOLELY BASED ON PRISON POLITICS!! RATHER SUR RACISM IS AN EXTREME OUTWARD MANIFESTATION, OF THE RACISM THAT THOSE WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY HAVE FOR BLACK FOLKS!!

I know that this truth hurts your feelings, but then again-IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU, BUT THE TRUTH!

I said:

The tensions between blacks and Hispanics, and for this particular discussion, blacks and mexicans, can’t be relegated, or zoned in on solely, as being about gang warfare, and prison politics alone. Why? Because the reality is, the type of racism and sentiments that Mexican surs manifest towards black folks, is an extreme example of a microcosm, insofar as how it relates to the Mexican community, and their racism towards black folks.

He said:

I'm NOT saying "gang warfare and prison politics ALONE."

My response:

Oh but this is what you were implying previously!

He said:

Example: I personally know and talk to MANY Eastside Riva gang members.

My response:

Again, this is why you’re a biased observer, or don’t want to understand, or cannot comprehend the angle from where black folks are coming from, in their relationships with racist mexicans, or the total Mexican community, SEEING AS HOW YOU CAN GET ALONG, JUST FINE, WITH THOSE WHO ARE SOME OF THE MOST VIRULENT RACISTS WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY, WHEREAS BLACK FOLKS ONLY SEE THE END OF THESE SURS VICIOUS RACISM, YOU YOURSELF CAN EXPERIENCE, IF NOT TOTAL, BUT A MODICUM OF CAMARADARIE AND CIVILITY FROM THESE FOOLS!

But I digress, let’s continue…

He said:


Most of them HATE the 1200 Blocc Crips, and now, basically anyone who is Black (I personally know 12's too).

My response:

I know this, and?


He said:

The YOUNGER Eastside Riva's can't explain why they hate Blacks in general (although they try),


My response:

And much of the hatred they have for black folks, is rooted in some of what I listed in the above, concerning the racism and the racist views, that those within the Mexican community holds for black folks in general.

Secondly, I have like you, a “strange feeling” that you don’t come down hard on these fools, for their admitted, and overt racism, as you would someone who’s black, whom you may (operative word) view as being a racist, because if you did-YOU WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO COMFORTABLY KICK IT WITH THEM, THE WAY YOU DO!

This is why you said previously that it is a positive thing to pacify black folk’s anger, with the implication that you won’t try to calm the racism and hatred of those who hate black folks-AND THIS IS WHY I CALL YOU A SELF-RIGHTEOUS HYPOCRITE AND A WHITE RACIST!

I express my anger towards Mexican racist behavior, and you mercilessly condemn me, with a quickness, for being a racist, whereas those Mexican racists you hang with, you probably view as misunderstood youth, who needs a shoulder to cry on, and an attentive ear.

Racist bastard, you’re not fooling anyone!!

Black folks, take note of the hypocrisy, dripping from this fork tongued serpent, AND MARK HIS SUBTLE MANNER IN DEALING WITH THIS PERTINENT ISSUE FOR BLACK FOLKS!

Anyway, let’s move on…

He said:

and know 1200 Blocc to be their enemy. They don't know WHY 1200 BC is their enemy.

My response:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, AND???

He said:

I've seen over the years (yes, I probably have more life experience than you think) these Hispanic gangsters become more and more racists against Blacks as the years go by. 1200 Blocc and ESR used to kick it together in the 80's. eMe changed that. It came to a DEAD HALT! Because of those severed ties (directly caused by eMe), Sureno's in Riverside became racists on a whole new level. That has evolved over the years to be an all out race war.....Riverside Sureno's against,,first 1200 BC...and slowly grew to include anyone who is Black.


My response:

True enough, AND WHAT’S YOUR POINT MAN??!!

He said:

This has been occuring ALL OVER SO CAL! eMe has laid down the law pretty clear as to what Sureno's need to be doing on the street! And trust me, it's a RACIAL AGENDA against Blacks..How many people on THIS forum have talked about how they used to get along and co-exist with Sureno's in their hood??


My response:

Well it’s like this, one of the reasons why La Eme flexed their muscles against black folks, because they realized there was going to be a population shift, whereby the Mexican community would eventually outnumber the black community in southern california, whereby they would be able to comfortably, “lay down the law” so to speak, against black gang domination. Furthermore, seeing as how So. Cal., especially L.A., is a gang culture, of course the outcome that you see, in regards to racist surs taking upon the mantle of the KKK, would come to pass-BUT THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY’RE NOT FUELED AND EXPLOITED, BY THE RACISM THAT MEXICANS HAVE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS ALREADY!!

In other words, prison politics alone, couldn’t sustain the ongoing hatred that these racist surs manifest towards all black folks. Rather the arrogance, and cocksureness of their numbers as mexicans, buttressed by a latent racist agenda, and/or racism, that the Mexican community has always had for the black community, but never could fully express-IS WHAT IS PRODUCING THE GENOCIDAL AND KLU-KLUX HATRED OF CONTEMPORARY SURS, TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT, AND REVISE HISTORY, CONCERNING SOME SUPPOSED OPPRESSION THEY FACED AT THE HANDS OF BLACK FOLKS, WHICH SOMEHOW JUSTIFIES THEIR EVIL HATRED TOWARDS ALL BLACK FOLKS, AND NOT JUST CRIPS AND BLOODS!

It’s like a quiet person getting drunk (in this case, drunk with power), only to become emboldened and boisterous, loud and arrogant, based on their drunken stupor, WHILE EXPRESSING EVERYTHING THAT WAS REALLY ON THEIR MINDS, ALL ALONG!

Then again, I realize that you’re not going to be able to grasp what I’ve just said, because you’re just that slow.


He said:

This whole conversation is over Snoops video offending Chino Grande over the word "Vato". U mean to tell me this dude isn't being influenced by what's spilled onto the streets from the pen?? He doesn't think Snoop has the right to use a Sureno/Mexican term!! Because Snoop is Black!

My response:

If this fool’s hatred towards Snoop was just about sur prison politics alone, he wouldn’t have implicated the whole black community, by claiming that black folks have no culture, AND THAT WE STOLE THEIR CULTURE; that rap music (an art form created by black folks) was created by the Aztecs, coupled with his use of the words “mayate” and “nigger” to refer to black folks.

These views aren’t part and parcel of sur prison politics alone, fool-BUT ARE PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT MANY WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY BELIEVE, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS (the few exception being that mexicans and not black folks, created rap music)!

Simply put, La Eme couldn’t exploit anything, if there was nothing there to EXPLOIT!!!!

He said:

Based on this, why would I go back to what happened during the Civil War?

My response:

Because you’re a fool, and don’t understand context?

I said:

No, you’re primary reason for not being caught up in this black and Mexican war, is based on the fact that YOU ARE WHITE, prison politics aside…

He said:

That too!

My response:

I realize this, which makes your assessment of black folks rage and righteous indignation, UNJUSTIFIABLY BIASED AND RACIST, AND ULTIMATELY NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

I said:


The racism that surs have for black folks, and their genocidal designs they have for black folks, just can’t be relegated and sequestered in them only wanting to dominate the streets for drug trade reasons!!! There has to be more fuel to that fire, other than that, because if that were solely the case-THEN INNOCENT BLACK CIVILIANS WOULDN’T BE TARGETED, JUST BLACK GANGS, FOOL! So what the hell are you talking about?

Whereas he said:

A) I know innocent Blacks are targeted. I never said they weren't.

My response:

I know you realize this, and you ultimately would rather see innocent black folks targeted, than mexicans, based on what I am able to observe from you, seeing as how you kick it, and get along just “swell” with the enemies of black folks: RACIST SURS!

He said:

B) They want to dominate the prisons. The streets are a
secondary objective.

My response:

The ones stuck in prison may want to dominate the prisons, but the bigger picture is to dominate not only the prison (headquarters) BUT THE TOTAL COLONY, WHICH IS THE STREETS, BECAUSE WITHOUT DOMINATING THE STREETS, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OF CERTAIN ILLEGAL TRADES, ETC.!

Also, not dominating the streets, will give their enemies (in their mind, black folks in general), a certain boost and confidence, when it comes to handling their business in prison, and those fools can’t have none of that!

That’s why they have to consistently subjugate, punk out, and squash any type of black bravado and masculinity, in black folks, especially black males.

He said:

C) If you would refer to my example above, racial hatred slowly
evolved because of the hate for 1200 BC first. That seems to be
a natural progression. This in many cases has occured throughout
So. Cal. gang neigborhoods...for the SAME REASONS!

My response:

Referring to your sole example, is all you really can do, seeing as how that above example is as deep as you can get on this subject, whereas I’m penetrating a lot deeper than your elementary examples: examples which black folks have given previously, but they just didn’t stop there (prison politics).

Only a deceiver would want black folks to stop at prison politics, as opposed to studying, and looking at the overall picture!

He said:

D) FOOL!

My response:

RETARD!

I said:

What it is, is that you have no insight on the problem, never did, and from the looks of it, YOU NEVER WILL! Your analyses are only band-aid approaches, coming from, again, A DILETTANTE.

In other words, you’re like a man who pretends to be wise, when in reality you’re nothing more than a fool-AT LEAST ON THIS TOPIC!

His asinine response:

I just proved you wrong there,,so...NANY NANY NANY!!!


My response:

No you didn’t, or have you forgotten what I said already, in regards to your analyses:

“Referring to your sole example, is all you really can do, seeing as how that above example is as deep as you can get on this subject, whereas I’m penetrating a lot deeper than your elementary examples: examples which black folks have given previously, but they just didn’t stop there (prison politics).

Only a deceiver would want black folks to stop at prison politics, as opposed to studying, and looking at the overall picture!”

And to top it off, as I said before, you are only coming from the point of view of racist surs, and how and why they feel the way they feel about black folks in general, coupled with the fact that you know damn well that you don’t come down on those fools, with the same rage and passion (if at all), the way you would a black person, who expresses their rage and angst against sur racists and/or the general Mexican population.

Why? Because as I said before, if you did-YOU WOULDN’T BE AS INTIMATE WITH THEM, OR BE ABLE TO KICK IT WITH THEM, AS FREELY AS YOU DO NOW!

Why again? Well, do I have to really spell it out for you-YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! NANNY NANNY, NAAAAANEEE!!! LOL! Retarded jackass! LOL!


I said:

Furthermore, many non-gang affiliated mexicans aren’t being targeted, or wrapped up as much in the whirlwind of gang violence, because black gangs, even though they’re not angels, don’t for the most part-TARGET MEXICANS AS A WHOLE, JUST BECAUSE THEY’RE MEXICAN!

Mexicans living in black gang territories will fare much better, than black folks living in Mexican gang dominated areas, with few exceptions…

He said:

I actually AGREE with you there. But, since (according to you) I have no insight, I guess my agreeing with you doesn't mean much.

My response:

BINGO!


He said:

MANY RACIAL GROUPS ARE GOING TO BE RESENTFULL IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER AT OTHERS FOR WHATEVER REASON.........That's not the issue!

Whereas I said:

No fool, this is too THE ISSUE!!! Just because in your world, in your mind, within the prism of your experiences, you want this whole thing to be placed under the banner of gang warfare, for many ignoble reasons, just so that you can have an idea of how to solve the problem in an easy less complicated, and racialistic way (e.g. stop the prison politics; end the racism on the streets)-doesn’t mean that your fairyland reality (if this is even your reality, truth be told), IS REALITY!


He said:

No it's not

My response:

Yes it is, because as I said before, racists like you who cheerlead from the sidelines, and really don’t have a handle from the angle of black angst towards racist surs and their sympathizers, because of your camaraderie with racist surs, and your level of comfortability in fellowshipping with racist surs, makes even your real life experiences biased, prejudiced, one sided, replete with analyses that will aid and assist black folks in no constructive way-SEEING AS HOW YOU ARE LATENTLY RACIST AGAINST BLACK FOLKS, AND ARE QUICK TO LABEL AND CONDEMN BLACK FOLKS, WHO MAY NOT FEEL ALL TO FOND ABOUT THE GENERAL MEXICAN POPULATION, WHEREAS YOU WOULDN’T, AGAIN, PUT FORTH THE SAME EFFORT IN REVERSE, TOWARDS RACIST SURS AND MEXICANS, BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID PREVIOUSLY ABOUT YOU: you feel a bond and kinship with these fools, thereby making your supposedly “objective” analyses on the matter, NOT WORTH THE TINY GRAIN OF SALT THAT GOES INTO A SLICE OF BREAD!

In other words, you’re like a dull knife, that’s just not cutting, while talking loud-AND SAYING NOTHING!


He said:


Gee,,based on your view..it must be tuff for a Black person to get their car washed in California...I mean, all those Mexican Immigrants washing your car while you wait? The bullets from there pistols probably fly...

I said:

Just like a racist white person. He has nothing more substantive to say about a serious issue, so he tries to make a “funny”, so as to diss your position, just hoping that other black folks reading his words, will somehow see the logic in what this fool is saying, by how this fool is pretending to be confident within his humorous jabs.

He said:

LOL!!!! Don't hate on me because I have a personality!!

My response:

If I’m hating on anything, I’m hating on the fact that you: “like a racist white person…has nothing more substantive to say about a serious issue, so he tries to make a “funny”, so as to diss your position, just hoping that other black folks reading his words, will somehow see the logic in what this fool is saying, by how this fool is pretending to be confident within his humorous jabs.”

And as far as personality, your personality is as animated as a rotted corpse…

I said:


Look, haughty and arrogant fool, with a proud look, who doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about- JUST ASK ANY AVERAGE RANK AND FILE MEXICAN, RATHER THEY BE RACIST, OR NON-RACIST, WHETHER THEY HAVE BLACK FRIENDS, OR NO BLACK FRIENDS, ETC. ABOUT THE SENTIMENTS I CLAIM THEY BELIEVE ABOUT BLACK FOLKS IN THE ABOVE QUOTE, AS WELL AS WITHIN MY POST TO J, AND SEE IF I’M ALLEGEDLY WAY OFF THE MARK, WHICH IS WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO ERRONEOUSLY CLAIM!

He said:

No, Mr. pompas, arrogant jackass who must think he's "Jesus Christ" and believes he's ALL KNOWING, I don't need to conduct my own personal survey/experiment to confirm your an idiot.

My response:

To the contrary, disdainful, high and mighty, insolent, presumptuous, supercilious, half-witted, assheaded, dense, blockheaded JACKASS-IF YOU’RE GOING TO TOUT THE POSITION THAT I NEED A STUDY AND SURVEY TO BACK UP MY POSITIONS, AS OPPOSED TO MY OWN PERSONAL LIFE’S EXPERIENCES, BUT THAT YOUR OWN PERSONAL AND LIFE’S EXPERIENCES ARE THE GOLD STANDARD IN WHICH WE ARE TO ENTRUST OUR BELIEFS ONTO (TO HELL WITH A STUDY), IS WHAT BLATANTLY AND TRANSPARENTLY, MAKES YOU A DUMB IGNORANT WHITE RACIST, WHO THOUGHT THAT HIS RATIONAL AND DIPLOMATIC, ALL-SEEING EYE APPROACH TO LOOKING AT THE SITUATION, WAS GOING TO STAND AS THE SUPREME PRIMER ON WHAT’S GOING ON BETWEEN THE BLACK AND THE BROWN!

Naw white racist fool, I don’t view my self as Jesus Christ, neither have I ever claimed to be, but I do know that a racist like yourself, most definitely has a GOD COMPLEX!

I said:


But then again, you don’t want the truth, because within the shelter of your white skin, you’re not affected by what is going on, neither do you really care, truth be told. On the same token, you are also privately cheerleading for the eses on this one, which makes you a biased “objective” observer-WHO’S A RACIST!

LOL!!! Who's being the racists here!!..LOL!!!

My response:

Call me what you want, but uh-AM I LYING????

He said:

Go blow racist smoke up someone elses ass..

My response:

I think that’s something you engage in for kicks. But with that said, speaking of “ass”-HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT GETTING YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOURS, SEEING AS HOW IT APPEARS AS IF YOU’RE SO STUCK ON STUPID!!

But then again, with your head so far up your ass, it inevitably explains why everything that comes of your mouth-IS FULL OF SHIT!

He said:
DONE

My response:

You’ve been done a long time ago, especially if you think I’m going to back down from my positions, thus defending my positions, from racists like yourself!

To TheReal:

Sorry Black Devil,,I don't have time to read your books anymore. Get a life.

*The nerve of Satan, calling someone else a "Devil", in order to divert attention from his pernicious and evil ass.

Naw fool, the only true "Devil", amidst this thread, is YOU: WHITE DEVIL!

You need to see a doctor man..

[$outhPhillypuppet]

im not readin all that can you some it up in like 5 lines

[TheReal]

The Real:

All I got to say is this. There are racist people (and non racist) in every race, every color, every creed, every religion, every nationality, every gang, every prison, every street on this earth. For anybody to say otherwise is in fact RACIST. Is Big A lying?

*It's not about me claiming that black folks can't be racist, or disclaiming what you're saying. Rather, I'm highlighting how racist mexicans, and in this instance, racist surs, and their sur sympathizers, manifest their racism, which in the case of black folks-IS GENOCIDAL!

Racist mexicans, surs and their sympathizers, don't want black folks to be free; instead, they want to stifle, smother, insert and suppress black folks overall freedom and wherewithal. That's why with the average sur, especially younger sur, it's not about rivalry with black gangs, BUT RIVALRY WITH THE BLACK RACE!

[TheReal]

To Stamps:

I said:


In other words, you accuse me of being a black racist, because I would view fools like you as a racist for giving me the dirty eye, when in reality-HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? ARE YOU NOW READING MY MIND?

He said:

No, I'm reading your posts.

My response:

Yeah, you are reading my posts, but you are placing your own spin on them, because you are a racist, and are detached and insensitive to the issues at hand because you’re white. Moreover, as I said before, you are cheerleading for the mexicans on this one, for various reasons, least of which lies in the fact that you feel more of a kinship with mexicans, and you internalize the accusations and attacks I make upon mexicans, with what I would possibly do against white folks, amongst other things.

Again, this is what makes you a RACIST!


I said:


Man, that’s the height of arrogance. You up there accusing me of the very same thing you’re doing to me, but yet you call me a racist mind reader, and you’re not?

He said:

No

My response:

This is why again; I claim that you are the epitome and the height of arrogance, seeing as how you’re trying to remove a speck out of my eye, whereas you have a whole telephone pole lodged in yours.

This is another example of a racist, or latent racist, at the very least…


I said:

TheReal said:

(Where’s my quote?)

Then he said:

But no, I wouldn't think that. I do, however; have a strange feeling you don't believe me.

Then I said:

Hmmmmmmm…I wonder how you were able to come to that conclusion? Was it mind reading, or the use of Ummin, or Thummin?

Whereas he said:

No,,not mind reading, just a "Strange Feeling". They're different.

My response:

This is what makes you what? A SOOTHSAYER, OR PSYCHIC? Look fool, no matter how much you try and spin the situation, you are accusing me of mind reading, when I accuse certain mexicans of racist behavior, only for you to turn around and have the audacity to claim that I am a racist, by using an asinine example which dealt with me supposedly thinking that a white person would be a racist, and wanted to call me a “nigger”, just because he gave me the dirty eye.

This right here, I’m assuming, you feel is an example based on certain perceptions, “strange feelings”, or observations/experiences you’ve had in the past, and in your racist, myopic, shortsighted eyes, you feel that your position is legitimate, even though you have no proof whatsoever, that I would indeed react in such a way. HOWEVER, when I label that as someone who engages in again, MINDREADING-you try to justify your BS in your own eyes, by implying that your presumptions are based on “scientific” data, or some spooky feelings that you have, whereas my observations, experiences, and perceptions that I have of those within the Mexican community, IS SIMPLY BASED ON MINDREADING ALONE!

Simply put, you feel that your accrual of data, and assessments is more legitimate than mine, just because you are WHITE, and that mine are based on frivolous motives, without any intelligent thought put into the process, simply because I AM BLACK!

This again-IS WHAT MAKES YOU A WHITE RACIST!

I said:

It’s kinda like throwing a rock, and then hiding your hand, and accusing the other person whom you threw the rock at, as being a troublemaker, because he punched you in the nose, when in reality, the person who threw the rock is the real troublemaker.

He said:

Thanks for the stupid analogy. Are you going to teach me how to walk on rice paper now?

My response:

Well you’re welcomed for the analogy, but as far as it being stupid, well-IF YOU’RE NOT ABLE TO SEE THE ALLEGORICAL CONNECTION, THEN YOU MY FRIEND, ARE JUST THAT SLOW!

Other folks can get where I’m coming from, and did indeed catch the connection within my “stupid” analogy, so an idiot like you telling me that my analogy was “stupid”, is like a 5 year old kid telling Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, THAT HE’S GOING TO KICK HIS ASS; or a retarded person telling me that I’m stupid, because I believe that 2+2=4!

Naw man, it’s not so much that my analogy is incomprehensible or “stupid,” but rather it’s a telltale sign of your stupidity, especially if you believe that an idiot like you, holds any truck on what is stupid or not stupid, when it comes to anything I have to say.

With a racist like yourself, you’d say I was wrong, or “stupid,” even if you knew I was right, just for effects purposes, as well as to hide the fact that you’re a DUMBASS!

Then again, I digress…

I said:

No dumbass, I’m not mind reading, rather I’m making a character assessment, based on the preponderance of the evidence. As I said previously, everyone does it, and so do you. To deprive me of such a right, especially when I hit targets that you’re sensitive about concerning race, IS WHAT MAKES YOU A RACIST!

Whereas he said:

Yes, your right. I make character assessments too. Based on the preponderance of evidence, your a racist.


My response:

To the contrary, you’re supposed “preponderance of evidence” supposedly betrays me, in your eyes, as someone who’s a pseudo mind reader, and who’s speaking out of his ass, despite the “preponderance of evidence” I put forth, in regards to my life’s experiences, observations and take on the matter. Whereas my “preponderance of evidence” holds no water, or weight with yours truly, for various ignoble reasons, least of which, is because YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST, and I am black!

You see, you feel that just because you are white, as I said before in the above, your perceptions hold more water, and have more validity, because of your supposed observations, than anything I have to say, which is the epitome of how a white supremacist would think, even those white folks who claim to be non-racist, borderline racist, etc.

Again, this is what makes you, I’m sorry-A WHITE RACIST! A hypocritical, arrogant, haughty, my opinion is above all, WHITE RACIST!



I said:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!! What marvelous insight!!! But as I said before, so say I now and again, JUST BECAUSE IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION, DOESN’T’ MEAN THAT MY PERSONAL OPINION ISN’T FACTUAL, NOW DOES IT?

Whereas he said:

Opinions are not facts..AND, although one can form an opinion BASED on facts,,opinions are also largly influenced by perceptions.


My response:

Thanks for repeating what I’ve said in the above, which in summary states that yes-opinions aren’t facts (neither have I implied that they were), and that opinions, despite them being opinions, doesn’t mean that the opinions, that are based on perceptions-AREN’T FACTUAL!

Well yeah, thanks for buttressing my point on this matter, and?

He further went on to say:

If one is a sick racists, who constantly dwells on the issue (like you), then your perception will definately be distorted.

My response:

The only one who’s a “sick racist” between the two of us, IS YOU SICK WHITE RACIST! You’re sick because you actually feel that your opinions/positions that are based on your own personal perceptions and observations are more legitimate than mine: at least that’s what you’re pretending to believe.

Why? Because again, in your eyes, my perceptions aren’t legitimate, based on any experiences I’ve had, but rather distorted perceptions, because of my own personal prejudices, as opposed to how things really are. You see, with me, you claim that you want studies to be put forth, in the form of scientific data, because a black person is just too emotional to come to any concrete, logical conclusions, on the topic of race, whereas with a white person like yourself, all you would need to do is make personal assessments, based on personal perceptions and experiences, and VOILA-whatever you say is the GOLD STANDARD, WITH THE IMPLICATION THAT IT IS THE GOLD STANDARD, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WHITE!

Again, this is why I call you a WHITE RACIST, regardless of how you view your own self. The reality says something different…

I said:

Look dilettante fool, this is something that YOU as an outsider must do (conduct a study), seeing as how YOU yourself aren’t caught up within the maelstrom of what’s going on between black and brown, WHEREAS I, AND OTHER BLACK FOLKS ON THIS THREAD, ARE!

OH,,,I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. Would that "Maelstrom" include, say......getting shot at by truck loads of Mexican day laborer's on their way to the orange groves? Or...being mad dogged or threatened by the dishwasher at Alberto's? Or....chased home everyday by your neighbor's Mexican immigrant landscaper??? (That can be scary if he's reving up the leaf blower attached to his back). Or...maybe your talking about Sureno's????


My response:

Again, this just goes to show you the ignorance, the arrogance, and how out of touch this fool is on the matter.

Look racist idiot, all the people that you just mentioned, by and large, fall under the category of those who are newly arrived in this country, or “illegal aliens.” It’s important for me to make this observation because naïve and gullible dunces like you, will look at these folks, and misconstrue the plight they experience and travail, with those mexicans, or even Hispanics in general (seeing as how you like to take it there), who are born in this country, and who are 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ad infinitum, generations. U.S. born mexicans don’t face their driver’s licenses being taken away from them, or face the prospect of being deported, etc.

Hell, U.S. born Mexican Americans will even tell you that there are differences in how they perceive things, in comparison to how their own “border” brothers perceive things, when it comes to gangs, race, etc.

So you telling me about some newly arrived Mexican immigrants, on their way to work, in order to offset my argument about the racist perceptions many mexicans have towards black folks in this country, is like me saying that black folks don’t have a black on black crime problem, because of some newly arrived, hard working, Sudanese or Ethiopian folks, on their way to work, paint a different reality of hard working black folks, or black folks in general.

Notwithstanding, as some eses have pointed out to me in real life, as well on cyberspace (even on this forum), those mexicans that have been here for generations, and/or have assimilated into the mainstream U.S., are those who holds such racist views against black folks (the views that I have pointed out in my previous posts), or at the very least, are members of racist sur gangs.

Having said that, please try again, with your sophist dilettante, racist “intelligence” data…

I said:


Oh, so this is what this is all about? You attack me in a vicarious and retro active way, because you feel that the same heat I’m throwing at mexicans, is in essence the same heat that I can potentially throw at white folks! Man you are a racist.

He said:

No, I've read many of your posts where you refer to White people as "White Devil's"..so I guess it is retroactive..LOL!


My response:

I know, AND IT WAS THOSE WHO WERE NEO-NAZIS AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS, FOOL, NOT THE GENERAL POPULATION OF WHITES! HOWEVER, going back and forth with you, I may have to reconsider my position on what type of white folks I label as devils.

(On a sidenote, not that I have to admit to this, but on black websites, I even refer to certain ones of my own race as devils, and if I refer to certain ones of my own race as devils, how in the hell do you think, or perceive, that I would spare racist whites, like you, from the word “devil”? Again, what arrogance…)

I said:


This goes back to what I said in my previous post, in regards to you catching feelings because I’m attacking a group you may feel kinship with, thus your supposed rational and diplomatic approach on this discussion, which in reality masks a racist agenda, which ultimately takes sides.

And whatever side you’re on, IT AIN’T MY PEOPLE’S SIDE!

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again-IF A MEXICAN HAD OF SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT BLACKS, WHAT I SAID ABOUT MEXICANS, YOU AND THAT MEXICAN WOULDN’T BE HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION YOU AND I ARE NOW HAVING.

He said:

Don't pat yourself on the back fool. I doubt you speak for all Black people.

My response:

First of all, I’m not that vain of a person, to pat myself on the back, in order to receive self-gratification, similar to how you beat your meat in private. Furthermore, I never claimed I spoke for all black people. As a matter of fact, I DON’T HAVE TO SPEAK FOR ALL BLACK PEOPLE, IN ORDER FOR MY VIEWS TO BE LEGITIMATE, OR TO BE PUT FORTH!

Proclaiming the truth is just that-PROCLAIMING THE TRUTH, REGARDLESS OF WHO BELIEVES IT OR NOT, OR SUPPORTS IT OR NOT! Not only that, I may not speak for all black people, but many black people do hold my views, and there’s beginning to become enough of them, because of our shared experiences, to cause a ripple in this discussion.

On the same token, I may not speak for all black folks, but I damn sure know one thing-NEITHER DO YOU!


He said:

And I've said this before, I hate racists no matter what color they are.

My response:

Then self-hatred is a motherfucker. With that said-WHAT DOES EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID, HAS TO DO WITH THIS STATEMENT OF MINE:

“This goes back to what I said in my previous post, in regards to you catching feelings because I’m attacking a group you may feel kinship with, thus your supposed rational and diplomatic approach on this discussion, which in reality masks a racist agenda, which ultimately takes sides.

And whatever side you’re on, IT AIN’T MY PEOPLE’S SIDE!”

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again-IF A MEXICAN HAD OF SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT BLACKS, WHAT I SAID ABOUT MEXICANS, YOU AND THAT MEXICAN WOULDN’T BE HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION YOU AND I ARE NOW HAVING.”

I’ll tell you what-NOT A DAMN THING!!!

I said:


And trust me, that teaching is put forth more so towards black folks, so as to pacify our rage, more so than it is towards the offenders (racist surs and their sympathizers/racist mexicans/latently racist mexicans), in an attempt to squash any actions from black folks.

He said:

Isn't that a positive thing?


My response:

No it isn’t, especially if you’re not as equally passionate in attacking the other side, for their racist wrongdoings. It’s like me blaming the victim of a gratuitous beat down, or ass whipping, even rape, of having undue and unjustified hatred, rage and righteous indignation towards his attackers, whereas you never put forth any reprisals, admonitions, not even a reprimand, or a cease and desist call, towards those who are brutalizing, beating down, and raping, the victims.

This is what makes folks like you hypocritical, and ultimately a racist!!!


But then again, you’re probably to simple-minded to catch this analogy, seeing as how a slowpoke like you appears to constantly incapable of abstract thought…

I said:

Man, I am astounded by your arrogance and lack of discernment, and foot in the mouth persona. Look fool, I’m not in the NOI, and never have been a part of the NOI, so you can, in many ways make personal attacks against these folks, in regards to them being racist, and it would in many ways, make me no never mind.
He said:

Well in that case, I'll take my foot out of my mouth. I'll give you that.


My response:

And take your head out of your ass, while you’re at it!


I said:

I know about nortenos allying with the BGF, hell, I KNOW OF ESES WHO ARE FRIENDS WITH BLACK FOLKS IN SO. CALI!! But again, THAT STILL DOESN’T TAKE AWAY THE ANGST THAT MANY MEXICANS HAVE FOR BLACK FOLKS, WHICH IS ARTICULATED IN MY POST TO J, NOW DOES IT? The BGF and Norteno alliance is a local thing fool, I’M LOOKING AT IT FROM A NATIONAL LEVEL, whereas you want to sequester everything within a neat package of gangland warfare.

He said:

What's happening in So Cal is NOT happening on this level nationally


My response:

Just because the gang culture that exists in So. Cal. ain’t happening nationally, because of So. Cal’s distinct and unique gang history, DOESN’T MEAN THAT BLACKS AND MEXICANS ARE GETTING ALONG JUST FINE, HOLDING HANDS AND SINGING CUMBAYA, FOOL, ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY THE SOUTHWEST WHERE THEY DOMINATE!!

Again, as I said before, so say I now and again, the So. Cal. sur versus black gang warfare and prison politics, that has spread out into the streets, is just a symptom, and extreme example, of the racism and beliefs, that many mexicans across the country, whether they are affiliated, or not-have for black folks.

In areas such as Texas, and other parts of the southwest, where mexicans have the numbers, prison politics aren’t really an issue per se, but black folks who live amongst these folks, in these states outside of Cali, many of them-would admit to experiencing the type of racism that blacks are experiencing in Cali, only on a lesser level. And the racism that many of these black folks face, is rooted in the Mexican racism towards black folks that believe that black folks have no culture, and the culture we do have, we took from them; black folks have been beneficiaries of white largesse undeservedly for far too long, and now it’s ‘our time” to shine, and the niggers better watch out; black folks have oppressed us on a street level, therefore any acts of violence committed against them by mexicans that are racial, even though it’s not my cup of tea, is nevertheless, POETIC JUSTICE AND MEXICAN VENGEANCE; black folks by and large are lazy; black folks are selfish because during their historical protest movements, they didn’t reach out to mexicans (like mexicans reached out to black folks during their movements; hell, up until the early 70’s, MEXICANS WERE CONSIDERED WHITE ANYWAY), etc…

These are the general sentiments that lie within the general Mexican population, rather they are racist, non-racist, latently racist, or whatever. As a matter of fact, just this year, there was a study done, where they asked latinos to give them their opinions on African-americans, and guess what? THEIR VIEWS ON BLACK FOLKS WERE OVERWHELMINGLY NEGATIVE!

Simply put, regardless of what you want to think, as I said before, so say I now and again, THE RACISM THAT SURS ESPOUSE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS, WASN’T CREATED IN A VACUUM, NOR INCUBATED AND BROUGHT TO BIRTH, SOLELY BASED ON PRISON POLITICS!! RATHER SUR RACISM IS AN EXTREME OUTWARD MANIFESTATION, OF THE RACISM THAT THOSE WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY HAVE FOR BLACK FOLKS!!

I know that this truth hurts your feelings, but then again-IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU, BUT THE TRUTH!

I said:

The tensions between blacks and Hispanics, and for this particular discussion, blacks and mexicans, can’t be relegated, or zoned in on solely, as being about gang warfare, and prison politics alone. Why? Because the reality is, the type of racism and sentiments that Mexican surs manifest towards black folks, is an extreme example of a microcosm, insofar as how it relates to the Mexican community, and their racism towards black folks.

He said:

I'm NOT saying "gang warfare and prison politics ALONE."

My response:

Oh but this is what you were implying previously!

He said:

Example: I personally know and talk to MANY Eastside Riva gang members.

My response:

Again, this is why you’re a biased observer, or don’t want to understand, or cannot comprehend the angle from where black folks are coming from, in their relationships with racist mexicans, or the total Mexican community, SEEING AS HOW YOU CAN GET ALONG, JUST FINE, WITH THOSE WHO ARE SOME OF THE MOST VIRULENT RACISTS WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY, WHEREAS BLACK FOLKS ONLY SEE THE END OF THESE SURS VICIOUS RACISM, YOU YOURSELF CAN EXPERIENCE, IF NOT TOTAL, BUT A MODICUM OF CAMARADARIE AND CIVILITY FROM THESE FOOLS!

But I digress, let’s continue…

He said:


Most of them HATE the 1200 Blocc Crips, and now, basically anyone who is Black (I personally know 12's too).

My response:

I know this, and?


He said:

The YOUNGER Eastside Riva's can't explain why they hate Blacks in general (although they try),


My response:

And much of the hatred they have for black folks, is rooted in some of what I listed in the above, concerning the racism and the racist views, that those within the Mexican community holds for black folks in general.

Secondly, I have like you, a “strange feeling” that you don’t come down hard on these fools, for their admitted, and overt racism, as you would someone who’s black, whom you may (operative word) view as being a racist, because if you did-YOU WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO COMFORTABLY KICK IT WITH THEM, THE WAY YOU DO!

This is why you said previously that it is a positive thing to pacify black folk’s anger, with the implication that you won’t try to calm the racism and hatred of those who hate black folks-AND THIS IS WHY I CALL YOU A SELF-RIGHTEOUS HYPOCRITE AND A WHITE RACIST!

I express my anger towards Mexican racist behavior, and you mercilessly condemn me, with a quickness, for being a racist, whereas those Mexican racists you hang with, you probably view as misunderstood youth, who needs a shoulder to cry on, and an attentive ear.

Racist bastard, you’re not fooling anyone!!

Black folks, take note of the hypocrisy, dripping from this fork tongued serpent, AND MARK HIS SUBTLE MANNER IN DEALING WITH THIS PERTINENT ISSUE FOR BLACK FOLKS!

Anyway, let’s move on…

He said:

and know 1200 Blocc to be their enemy. They don't know WHY 1200 BC is their enemy.

My response:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, AND???

He said:

I've seen over the years (yes, I probably have more life experience than you think) these Hispanic gangsters become more and more racists against Blacks as the years go by. 1200 Blocc and ESR used to kick it together in the 80's. eMe changed that. It came to a DEAD HALT! Because of those severed ties (directly caused by eMe), Sureno's in Riverside became racists on a whole new level. That has evolved over the years to be an all out race war.....Riverside Sureno's against,,first 1200 BC...and slowly grew to include anyone who is Black.


My response:

True enough, AND WHAT’S YOUR POINT MAN??!!

He said:

This has been occuring ALL OVER SO CAL! eMe has laid down the law pretty clear as to what Sureno's need to be doing on the street! And trust me, it's a RACIAL AGENDA against Blacks..How many people on THIS forum have talked about how they used to get along and co-exist with Sureno's in their hood??


My response:

Well it’s like this, one of the reasons why La Eme flexed their muscles against black folks, because they realized there was going to be a population shift, whereby the Mexican community would eventually outnumber the black community in southern california, whereby they would be able to comfortably, “lay down the law” so to speak, against black gang domination. Furthermore, seeing as how So. Cal., especially L.A., is a gang culture, of course the outcome that you see, in regards to racist surs taking upon the mantle of the KKK, would come to pass-BUT THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY’RE NOT FUELED AND EXPLOITED, BY THE RACISM THAT MEXICANS HAVE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS ALREADY!!

In other words, prison politics alone, couldn’t sustain the ongoing hatred that these racist surs manifest towards all black folks. Rather the arrogance, and cocksureness of their numbers as mexicans, buttressed by a latent racist agenda, and/or racism, that the Mexican community has always had for the black community, but never could fully express-IS WHAT IS PRODUCING THE GENOCIDAL AND KLU-KLUX HATRED OF CONTEMPORARY SURS, TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT, AND REVISE HISTORY, CONCERNING SOME SUPPOSED OPPRESSION THEY FACED AT THE HANDS OF BLACK FOLKS, WHICH SOMEHOW JUSTIFIES THEIR EVIL HATRED TOWARDS ALL BLACK FOLKS, AND NOT JUST CRIPS AND BLOODS!

It’s like a quiet person getting drunk (in this case, drunk with power), only to become emboldened and boisterous, loud and arrogant, based on their drunken stupor, WHILE EXPRESSING EVERYTHING THAT WAS REALLY ON THEIR MINDS, ALL ALONG!

Then again, I realize that you’re not going to be able to grasp what I’ve just said, because you’re just that slow.


He said:

This whole conversation is over Snoops video offending Chino Grande over the word "Vato". U mean to tell me this dude isn't being influenced by what's spilled onto the streets from the pen?? He doesn't think Snoop has the right to use a Sureno/Mexican term!! Because Snoop is Black!

My response:

If this fool’s hatred towards Snoop was just about sur prison politics alone, he wouldn’t have implicated the whole black community, by claiming that black folks have no culture, AND THAT WE STOLE THEIR CULTURE; that rap music (an art form created by black folks) was created by the Aztecs, coupled with his use of the words “mayate” and “nigger” to refer to black folks.

These views aren’t part and parcel of sur prison politics alone, fool-BUT ARE PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT MANY WITHIN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY BELIEVE, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS (the few exception being that mexicans and not black folks, created rap music)!

Simply put, La Eme couldn’t exploit anything, if there was nothing there to EXPLOIT!!!!

He said:

Based on this, why would I go back to what happened during the Civil War?

My response:

Because you’re a fool, and don’t understand context?

I said:

No, you’re primary reason for not being caught up in this black and Mexican war, is based on the fact that YOU ARE WHITE, prison politics aside…

He said:

That too!

My response:

I realize this, which makes your assessment of black folks rage and righteous indignation, UNJUSTIFIABLY BIASED AND RACIST, AND ULTIMATELY NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

I said:


The racism that surs have for black folks, and their genocidal designs they have for black folks, just can’t be relegated and sequestered in them only wanting to dominate the streets for drug trade reasons!!! There has to be more fuel to that fire, other than that, because if that were solely the case-THEN INNOCENT BLACK CIVILIANS WOULDN’T BE TARGETED, JUST BLACK GANGS, FOOL! So what the hell are you talking about?

Whereas he said:

A) I know innocent Blacks are targeted. I never said they weren't.

My response:

I know you realize this, and you ultimately would rather see innocent black folks targeted, than mexicans, based on what I am able to observe from you, seeing as how you kick it, and get along just “swell” with the enemies of black folks: RACIST SURS!

He said:

B) They want to dominate the prisons. The streets are a
secondary objective.

My response:

The ones stuck in prison may want to dominate the prisons, but the bigger picture is to dominate not only the prison (headquarters) BUT THE TOTAL COLONY, WHICH IS THE STREETS, BECAUSE WITHOUT DOMINATING THE STREETS, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OF CERTAIN ILLEGAL TRADES, ETC.!

Also, not dominating the streets, will give their enemies (in their mind, black folks in general), a certain boost and confidence, when it comes to handling their business in prison, and those fools can’t have none of that!

That’s why they have to consistently subjugate, punk out, and squash any type of black bravado and masculinity, in black folks, especially black males.

He said:

C) If you would refer to my example above, racial hatred slowly
evolved because of the hate for 1200 BC first. That seems to be
a natural progression. This in many cases has occured throughout
So. Cal. gang neigborhoods...for the SAME REASONS!

My response:

Referring to your sole example, is all you really can do, seeing as how that above example is as deep as you can get on this subject, whereas I’m penetrating a lot deeper than your elementary examples: examples which black folks have given previously, but they just didn’t stop there (prison politics).

Only a deceiver would want black folks to stop at prison politics, as opposed to studying, and looking at the overall picture!

He said:

D) FOOL!

My response:

RETARD!

I said:

What it is, is that you have no insight on the problem, never did, and from the looks of it, YOU NEVER WILL! Your analyses are only band-aid approaches, coming from, again, A DILETTANTE.

In other words, you’re like a man who pretends to be wise, when in reality you’re nothing more than a fool-AT LEAST ON THIS TOPIC!

His asinine response:

I just proved you wrong there,,so...NANY NANY NANY!!!


My response:

No you didn’t, or have you forgotten what I said already, in regards to your analyses:

“Referring to your sole example, is all you really can do, seeing as how that above example is as deep as you can get on this subject, whereas I’m penetrating a lot deeper than your elementary examples: examples which black folks have given previously, but they just didn’t stop there (prison politics).

Only a deceiver would want black folks to stop at prison politics, as opposed to studying, and looking at the overall picture!”

And to top it off, as I said before, you are only coming from the point of view of racist surs, and how and why they feel the way they feel about black folks in general, coupled with the fact that you know damn well that you don’t come down on those fools, with the same rage and passion (if at all), the way you would a black person, who expresses their rage and angst against sur racists and/or the general Mexican population.

Why? Because as I said before, if you did-YOU WOULDN’T BE AS INTIMATE WITH THEM, OR BE ABLE TO KICK IT WITH THEM, AS FREELY AS YOU DO NOW!

Why again? Well, do I have to really spell it out for you-YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST!!!! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! NANNY NANNY, NAAAAANEEE!!! LOL! Retarded jackass! LOL!


I said:

Furthermore, many non-gang affiliated mexicans aren’t being targeted, or wrapped up as much in the whirlwind of gang violence, because black gangs, even though they’re not angels, don’t for the most part-TARGET MEXICANS AS A WHOLE, JUST BECAUSE THEY’RE MEXICAN!

Mexicans living in black gang territories will fare much better, than black folks living in Mexican gang dominated areas, with few exceptions…

He said:

I actually AGREE with you there. But, since (according to you) I have no insight, I guess my agreeing with you doesn't mean much.

My response:

BINGO!


He said:

MANY RACIAL GROUPS ARE GOING TO BE RESENTFULL IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER AT OTHERS FOR WHATEVER REASON.........That's not the issue!

Whereas I said:

No fool, this is too THE ISSUE!!! Just because in your world, in your mind, within the prism of your experiences, you want this whole thing to be placed under the banner of gang warfare, for many ignoble reasons, just so that you can have an idea of how to solve the problem in an easy less complicated, and racialistic way (e.g. stop the prison politics; end the racism on the streets)-doesn’t mean that your fairyland reality (if this is even your reality, truth be told), IS REALITY!


He said:

No it's not

My response:

Yes it is, because as I said before, racists like you who cheerlead from the sidelines, and really don’t have a handle from the angle of black angst towards racist surs and their sympathizers, because of your camaraderie with racist surs, and your level of comfortability in fellowshipping with racist surs, makes even your real life experiences biased, prejudiced, one sided, replete with analyses that will aid and assist black folks in no constructive way-SEEING AS HOW YOU ARE LATENTLY RACIST AGAINST BLACK FOLKS, AND ARE QUICK TO LABEL AND CONDEMN BLACK FOLKS, WHO MAY NOT FEEL ALL TO FOND ABOUT THE GENERAL MEXICAN POPULATION, WHEREAS YOU WOULDN’T, AGAIN, PUT FORTH THE SAME EFFORT IN REVERSE, TOWARDS RACIST SURS AND MEXICANS, BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID PREVIOUSLY ABOUT YOU: you feel a bond and kinship with these fools, thereby making your supposedly “objective” analyses on the matter, NOT WORTH THE TINY GRAIN OF SALT THAT GOES INTO A SLICE OF BREAD!

In other words, you’re like a dull knife, that’s just not cutting, while talking loud-AND SAYING NOTHING!


He said:


Gee,,based on your view..it must be tuff for a Black person to get their car washed in California...I mean, all those Mexican Immigrants washing your car while you wait? The bullets from there pistols probably fly...

I said:

Just like a racist white person. He has nothing more substantive to say about a serious issue, so he tries to make a “funny”, so as to diss your position, just hoping that other black folks reading his words, will somehow see the logic in what this fool is saying, by how this fool is pretending to be confident within his humorous jabs.

He said:

LOL!!!! Don't hate on me because I have a personality!!

My response:

If I’m hating on anything, I’m hating on the fact that you: “like a racist white person…has nothing more substantive to say about a serious issue, so he tries to make a “funny”, so as to diss your position, just hoping that other black folks reading his words, will somehow see the logic in what this fool is saying, by how this fool is pretending to be confident within his humorous jabs.”

And as far as personality, your personality is as animated as a rotted corpse…

I said:


Look, haughty and arrogant fool, with a proud look, who doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about- JUST ASK ANY AVERAGE RANK AND FILE MEXICAN, RATHER THEY BE RACIST, OR NON-RACIST, WHETHER THEY HAVE BLACK FRIENDS, OR NO BLACK FRIENDS, ETC. ABOUT THE SENTIMENTS I CLAIM THEY BELIEVE ABOUT BLACK FOLKS IN THE ABOVE QUOTE, AS WELL AS WITHIN MY POST TO J, AND SEE IF I’M ALLEGEDLY WAY OFF THE MARK, WHICH IS WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO ERRONEOUSLY CLAIM!

He said:

No, Mr. pompas, arrogant jackass who must think he's "Jesus Christ" and believes he's ALL KNOWING, I don't need to conduct my own personal survey/experiment to confirm your an idiot.

My response:

To the contrary, disdainful, high and mighty, insolent, presumptuous, supercilious, half-witted, assheaded, dense, blockheaded JACKASS-IF YOU’RE GOING TO TOUT THE POSITION THAT I NEED A STUDY AND SURVEY TO BACK UP MY POSITIONS, AS OPPOSED TO MY OWN PERSONAL LIFE’S EXPERIENCES, BUT THAT YOUR OWN PERSONAL AND LIFE’S EXPERIENCES ARE THE GOLD STANDARD IN WHICH WE ARE TO ENTRUST OUR BELIEFS ONTO (TO HELL WITH A STUDY), IS WHAT BLATANTLY AND TRANSPARENTLY, MAKES YOU A DUMB IGNORANT WHITE RACIST, WHO THOUGHT THAT HIS RATIONAL AND DIPLOMATIC, ALL-SEEING EYE APPROACH TO LOOKING AT THE SITUATION, WAS GOING TO STAND AS THE SUPREME PRIMER ON WHAT’S GOING ON BETWEEN THE BLACK AND THE BROWN!

Naw white racist fool, I don’t view my self as Jesus Christ, neither have I ever claimed to be, but I do know that a racist like yourself, most definitely has a GOD COMPLEX!

I said:


But then again, you don’t want the truth, because within the shelter of your white skin, you’re not affected by what is going on, neither do you really care, truth be told. On the same token, you are also privately cheerleading for the eses on this one, which makes you a biased “objective” observer-WHO’S A RACIST!

LOL!!! Who's being the racists here!!..LOL!!!

My response:

Call me what you want, but uh-AM I LYING????

He said:

Go blow racist smoke up someone elses ass..

My response:

I think that’s something you engage in for kicks. But with that said, speaking of “ass”-HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT GETTING YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOURS, SEEING AS HOW IT APPEARS AS IF YOU’RE SO STUCK ON STUPID!!

But then again, with your head so far up your ass, it inevitably explains why everything that comes of your mouth-IS FULL OF SHIT!

He said:
DONE

My response:

You’ve been done a long time ago, especially if you think I’m going to back down from my positions, thus defending my positions, from racists like yourself!

To TheReal:

Sorry Black Devil,,I don't have time to read your books anymore. Get a life.

*The nerve of Satan, calling someone else a "Devil", in order to divert attention from his pernicious and evil ass.

Naw fool, the only true "Devil", amidst this thread, is YOU: WHITE DEVIL!

You need to see a doctor man..

*Why? Because I called you a WHITE DEVIL? Well, DEVIL, you called me a "Black Devil," so in the end, I'm giving back as good as I received.

Naw if anything, I pegged you for the white racist devil that you are, which basically makes my mind right and healthy. If I thought of you any other way, and truly listened to your prescriptions, and assessments, on how to solve this particular racial morass between blacks and mexicans-I would truly be confused, not fully sane, and out of my DAMN MIND!

Then, and only then, would I truly need to see a doctor.

So go peddle your wares somewhere else, snake oil salesman, because I ain't buying shit from you: MR. LUCIFER!

[TheReal]

To Martinez and Rollin, what you guys have to say about his article, that I took from a chicano website:



Gauging the Gangs

A respected writer spent five years studying the Mexican Mafia. What he discovered will shock even the most seasoned cop.
interview by Brentin Mock

Whenever Tony Rafael leaves home, he carries a .45-caliber handgun nestled in a holster just below his armpit. A Cold Steel Recon-1 knife is stashed elsewhere on his person. Concealed weapons permits are hard to come by in Los Angeles County, but Rafael is a special case.

For the past five years, the respected writer and gang expert -- who uses only the name he writes under in public because of his dangerous work -- has been researching one of the deadliest gangs in America for a nonfiction book he's writing on the Mexican Mafia, or "La Eme"(the Spanish word for the letter 'M'), tentatively titled Southern Soldiers. His sources are of the "L.A. Confidential" variety: prison inmates, gang members past and present, homicide detectives, FBI agents and their informants. He has volunteered for the Los Angeles Police Department, conducting long-term surveillance outside gang hangouts, and has dug up the cases of hundreds of gang members from the county court system to document the bloody swath they've cut across Los Angeles.

One heart-arresting fact the streetwise investigator recently uncovered is that Mexican Mafia leaders have declared a "green light" on African Americans found in neighborhoods claimed by the powerful prison-based gang. This means that members of Latino street gangs affiliated with the La Eme are under orders to harass, assault, and even murder African-Americans, who Mexican Mafia leaders view as sub-human.

The reason for this, Rafael has found, is that a longstanding prison gang war between the Mexican Mafia and the African-American prison gang, Black Guerilla Family, has led to a deep racial loathing between the gangs that has spilled over into the streets of Los Angeles County.

Until now, media coverage of this issue has missed the Mexican Mafia connection by focusing narrowly on the convictions of four members of a single street gang, the Avenues, for violating federal hate crime laws by murdering blacks in the Highland Park neighborhood. According to Rafael and other gang experts, the problem is far more pervasive.

Rafael sat down with the Intelligence Report in his Los Angeles office in October to discuss the shocking truths he found about the Mexican Mafia and how its leaders have ordered Latino gangs outside the prisons to sow terror among African Americans.

INTELLIGENCE REPORT: How did you find out about the Mexican Mafia's policy of racist violence against blacks?

TONY RAFAEL: I've been researching for a book on the Mexican Mafia that will be published next year. I became aware of this as a result of that research, and it was a shock. I knew the Mexican Mafia collected taxes [from street gangs], but I didn't realize they had initiated a policy of ethnic cleansing. This comes from the top. This comes from the shot callers. The guy who issued the order to the Avenues [one of many Mexican Mafia-controlled street gangs] to get rid of all blacks was a guy by the name of Alex "Pee Wee" Aguirre. Aguirre is a made man in the Mexican Mafia, he came from the Avenues originally, and he's currently serving a life term at a federal penitentiary in Marion, Ill.

IR: And this truly amounts to a policy of "ethnic cleansing"?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. These cases are scary. Take [Latino gang member] Frank Limón -- he shot a black male named Eric Green. Green and a friend of his were stopped at a stop sign on 11th Street and Pomona [in Pomona], and Limón just came up to him and shot him in the head, wounding him severely. Green is partially paralyzed, he's developed cognitive disorders, and he walks slowly, because the bullet is lodged in his brain and can't be removed.
Limón grew up next to black families in the neighborhood. He and Green knew each other and had no problems with each other personally. In fact, Limón used to go to Green's birthday parties when they were kids. But a week after Limón was jumped into the Pomona 12 [street gang], he started shooting at black kids because the Mexican Mafia had "green lighted" all blacks in the neighborhood. And when you click up with a gang that's loyal to the Mexican Mafia, the Mexican Mafia comes before God, your family, and your friends going all the way back to childhood. When they tell you to do something, you gotta do it.

IR: Why would the gangs take up this kind of race war?

RAFAEL: Well, to understand the background to these racial shootings and homicides you need to first understand some background on how the Mexican Mafia operates. They're primarily a prison gang, like the Black Guerilla Family and Aryan Brotherhood. What the Mexican Mafia has been able to do is project power outside of the prison system. There are only about 250 to 300 Mexican Mafia members in the California prison system that are fully validated ["made"] members, but what I compare them to are the generals and colonels of an army out on the streets. Everything south of Bakersfield is considered a Mexican Mafia stronghold, basically what you call sureños, or "south-siders."
Those sureños are obliged, whether they like it or not, to swear allegiance to the Mexican Mafia. If you're a little gang member in Avenues [the name of a Los Angeles neighborhood, as well as the gang that operates there] or Conoga Park and you're dealing in drugs, or some other illegal activity, you have to pay the Mexican Mafia a street tax. If you're dealing dope, you gotta buy your dope from the Mexican Mafia, you sell it and once you sell it you owe them a percentage of your profits.
In southern California, the Mexican Mafia and the [other] Hispanic street gangs have achieved what I call complete vertical integration. Say there's a little gang member who'll get arrested, he'll go to prison, and the minute he lands in prison they give him what they call the "X Files," the rules and regulations of the Mexican Mafia.
For example, one of those rules is that, if you're on a tier, if you're in the number one or the last cell in the tier, and you're celled up with another Mexican, one of you two has to stay awake at all times. That's the rules, so no one will sneak up on you. Also, the bloqueros, the guys in charge of the cell block, they have to collect from everyone on the tier and kick up to the Mexican Mafia leaders. They control the county jails and the state prison system. And because they control the jails and the prisons, they control the streets, because if you're an independent and you say, "Screw you. I don't wanna pay my taxes," they will either get you on the street -- they green light you and kill you, assault you, whatever they wanna do -- or they catch you when you enter the prison system.
You have to understand, these gang members are looking to go to jail or prison. They expect it. To them, it's just an extension of the streets. All their friends are there, their family's there, all their ol' homies from growing up in the 'hood, they're all there. But if they want to remain a part of that culture, and if they want to be under the Mexican Mafia's protection, they have to obey the Mexican Mafia's rules and follow their orders, inside and outside the penal system.

IR: And why do those orders include terrorizing and killing blacks?

RAFAEL: They don't want blacks in their neighborhoods. They say it makes their neighborhood look bad.
It started with the Mexican Mafia ordering street gangs to cleanse themselves of black members, before they moved on to cleansing neighborhoods. For example, the 18th Street gang, this was a [MacArthur Park neighborhood] gang that had blacks and Hispanics in it for a long time, up until about 10 years ago, when the Mexican Mafia leaders told the 18th Street, "If you don't want to get green-lighted, get all the blacks out of your gang." They had to go. Before that, the 18th Street gang was an equal opportunity employer. But the Mexican Mafia said, "We can't have it, can't have blacks in our gangs."
The way I hear these knuckleheads tell it, they don't want their neighborhoods infested with blacks, as if it's an infestation. It's just pure racial animosity that manifests itself in a policy of a major criminal organization.

IR: Does the Mexican Mafia have the same policy toward whites or Asians?

RAFAEL: No. In fact, in the California prison system the Aryan Brotherhood and the Mexican Mafia have made an alliance to gang up against the Black Guerilla Family. It's common knowledge in the prison system that if there's a fight between a Mexican Mafia member and a black inmate, and there aren't enough Mexican Mafia guys to jump on his side, the Aryans are supposed to jump in on his side. This is an alliance that goes back 20 years. The Mexican Mafia and the Aryan Brotherhood have a mutual racial hatred for blacks.

IR: The Avenues killings and the Avenues gang have been getting all the media attention recently, but there are a lot of other street gangs loyal to the Mexican Mafia. How many of them also target blacks?

RAFAEL: All of them. What happened in the Avenues is happening all over southern California. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's happening throughout all of Los Angeles, or that there's policy to drive blacks out of the entire metropolitan area, but it's certainly happening in all the areas where the Mexican Mafia and their allied gangs feel they have control.
For example, they don't control Beverly Hills or the west side of Los Angeles. But places like [the Los Angeles neighborhood of] Highland Park, very strong presence. Pomona, very strong. West and north San Fernando Valley, extremely strong. And these are places where you don't see many blacks living in the first place, so wherever the Mexican Mafia has a very strong or extremely strong presence, the blacks who live there are going to have problems. The federal government is aware of this, and the decision to prosecute the Avenues using federal hate crime laws came from the highest levels of the U.S. Attorney's office. They were basically using the Avenues case to send a message to the Mexican Mafia leaders, to say, "This is not going to happen."

IR: And are those gang leaders getting the message?

RAFAEL: They got it, but they don't care. It's not like their reaction has been, "Message heard, okay, we're gonna back off." One week before the [Avenues federal hate crimes trial] ended, another black kid was killed by the Avenues 43.

IR: What level of truth is there to the rumor that Bloods and Crips are going to start carrying out similar racial attacks on Latinos as a form of revenge?

RAFAEL: It's already happening. There was one case in the Avenues already where three [Latino] family members were shot and killed by two black guys with AK-47s. The victims were civilians, not gang members. The killers rolled up on them in central Avenues, opened up on them with the AKs, then, after the [Latino] guys were down, the [black gang members] walked up and shot them in the back. It was coup de grâce, assassination, pure-out assassination. So, yes, unfortunately, it's started.

IR: Some people who live in Highland Park point out that many of these killings [of blacks] happened years ago, and that it was a relatively small problem caused by a relatively small group. But you're saying this is still a big problem today, in more areas than just Highland Park?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. It's not like if you're black they're definitely going to shoot you on sight if they only see you once in Highland Park. However, if you move there, like [2000 murder victim] Anthony Prudhomme, and they see you going in and out of your house all the time, or you start hanging out there regularly, like [2001 murder victim] Christopher Bowser, sitting in front of a bus bench with your boom box, yeah, you'll have problems.

IR: You think that was a cultural thing with Bowser, them not liking a black man imposing on their public space with noise from his boom box?

RAFAEL: I think the boom box just made him stick out more. They just didn't want Bowser hanging out there, period, because he was black. He had been beaten up and robbed before and called the usual epithets. The [1999 murder victim] Kenneth Wilson case, though, was weirder. Wilson didn't even live in Highland Park. He was just visiting a friend of his, and he went out to move his car because it was parked illegally, blocking somebody's driveway, and he had the random misfortune of coming across one of the four most vicious guys there are, [Avenues gang member Gilbert "Lucky"] Saldana.
Saldana is an outright racist. He's the one who uttered the infamous words, "Wanna kill a nigger?" before Wilson was shot. And Wilson was targeted at random. He was just parking his car when these guys went out looking to kill a black guy. He was totally innocent.

IR: Let's say a member of a street gang under the Mexican Mafia's authority obeys all the other rules and pays his taxes, but when it comes to terrorizing blacks, he says, "Look, I have no problem with black people just for being black, so I don't want to do this," does he have that kind of wiggle room?

RAFAEL: No.

IR: So then, if he carries out an assault or a killing because he's under racist orders, even though he's not a racist himself, is that still truly a hate crime, or is it more accurately described as a gang hit?

RAFAEL: The guys prosecuted in the [federal] Avenues case, there was nobody holding a gun to their head. They went out looking for blacks to kill to earn stripes, and to curry favor and to bring up their status with the Mexican Mafia. They may have hated blacks and been down with killing blacks to begin with, or they may have just said, "To show you I'm with the program, I'll go out and do what I gotta do." But the end result is the same, and it's really at a basic level driven by the same sort of racial purity theories as nut groups like the KKK.

IR: Are there really any theories or ideology to the Mexican Mafia's racism, or is it just disorganized, visceral hatred?

RAFAEL: The Mexican Mafia derives inspiration and ethnic pride from the concept of La Raza (Spanish, in this context, for "The Race"), as well as from the Aztec, Aztlan movement. And this goes way back. There was a Mexican Mafia shot caller back in the 1970s named Rudolph Cheyenne Cardena, and before he was killed by rival Mexican gang members in 1978 or 1977, Cardena saw the Mexican Mafia the way George Jackson [a prominent member of the original Black Panther Party who founded the Black Guerilla Family] saw the black prison movement. He wanted to change the Mexican Mafia into a political, socially active movement, and what he used for inspiration was the Aztec culture. He taught himself Nahuatl [the ancient language of the Aztecs], started teaching it to all the other homies. In fact, to this day they still use Nahuatl to send coded messages to one another -- these kinds of three level-coded messages. You have to know the code, and then Nahuatl and so on. And one of the symbols of the Mexican Mafia is the Aztec worship [symbol].

They've brought in the Aztec heritage as part of their philosophical inspiration, and there are no black people in the Aztec culture. La Raza comes first to these guys. They see themselves as a race unto themselves, and there's really not too much room for anybody else.

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

*It's not about me claiming that black folks can't be racist, or disclaiming what you're saying. Rather, I'm highlighting how racist mexicans, and in this instance, racist surs, and their sur sympathizers, manifest their racism, which in the case of black folks-IS GENOCIDAL!
E!

Oh I see, so you highlightin'. Make sure it's an ALL PURPOSE highLIGHTer. An equal opportunity highLIGHTer, if you will. We must look at the origins, purposes, and functions of the highLIGHTer as it pertains to every injustice.

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

To Martinez and Rollin, what you guys have to say about his article, that I took from a chicano website:

Gauging the Gangs

A respected writer spent five years studying the Mexican Mafia. What he discovered will shock even the most seasoned cop.
interview by Brentin Mock

For the past five years, -- who uses only the name he writes under in public because of his dangerous work -- has been researching one of the deadliest gangs in America for a nonfiction book he's writing on the Mexican Mafia, or "La Eme"(the Spanish word for the letter 'M'), tentatively titled Southern Soldiers.

The reason for this, Rafael has found, is that a longstanding prison gang war between the Mexican Mafia and the African-American prison gang, Black Guerilla Family, has led to a deep racial loathing between the gangs.

TONY RAFAEL: I've been researching for a book on the Mexican Mafia that will be published next year. I became aware of this as a result of that research,
IR: And this truly amounts to a policy of "ethnic cleansing"?

IR: Why would the gangs take up this kind of race war?

IR: And why do those orders include terrorizing and killing blacks?

RAFAEL: They don't want blacks in their neighborhoods. They say it makes their neighborhood look bad.

IR: The Avenues killings and the Avenues gang have been getting all the media attention recently, but there are a lot of other street gangs loyal to the Mexican Mafia. How many of them also target blacks?

RAFAEL: All of them. What happened in the Avenues is happening all over southern California. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's happening throughout all of Los Angeles, or that there's policy to drive blacks out of the entire metropolitan area, but it's certainly happening in all the areas where the Mexican Mafia and their allied gangs feel they have control.
For example, they don't control Beverly Hills or the west side of Los Angeles. But places like [the Los Angeles neighborhood of] Highland Park, very strong presence. Pomona, very strong. West and north San Fernando Valley, extremely strong. And these are places where you don't see many blacks living in the first place, so wherever the Mexican Mafia has a very strong or extremely strong presence, the blacks who live there are going to have problems.

IR: What level of truth is there to the rumor that Bloods and Crips are going to start carrying out similar racial attacks on Latinos as a form of revenge?

RAFAEL: It's already happening. There was one case in the Avenues already where three [Latino] family members were shot and killed by two black guys with AK-47s. The victims were civilians, not gang members. The killers rolled up on them in central Avenues, opened up on them with the AKs, then, after the [Latino] guys were down, the [black gang members] walked up and shot them in the back. It was coup de grâce, assassination, pure-out assassination. So, yes, unfortunately, it's started.

IR: Some people who live in Highland Park point out that many of these killings [of blacks] happened years ago, and that it was a relatively small problem caused by a relatively small group. But you're saying this is still a big problem today, in more areas than just Highland Park?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. It's not like if you're black they're definitely going to shoot you on sight if they only see you once in Highland Park. However, if you move there, like [2000 murder victim] Anthony Prudhomme, and they see you going in and out of your house all the time, or you start hanging out there regularly, like [2001 murder victim] Christopher Bowser, sitting in front of a bus bench with your boom box, yeah, you'll have problems.

IR: You think that was a cultural thing with Bowser, them not liking a black man imposing on their public space with noise from his boom box?

RAFAEL: I think the boom box just made him stick out more. They just didn't want Bowser hanging out there, period, because he was black. He had been beaten up and robbed before and called the usual epithets. The [1999 murder victim] Kenneth Wilson case, though, was weirder. Wilson didn't even live in Highland Park. He was just visiting a friend of his, and he went out to move his car because it was parked illegally, blocking somebody's driveway, and he had the random misfortune of coming across one of the four most vicious guys

IR: So then, if he carries out an assault or a killing because he's under racist orders, even though he's not a racist himself, is that still truly a hate crime, or is it more accurately described as a gang hit?

IR: Are there really any theories or ideology to the Mexican Mafia's racism, or is it just disorganized, visceral hatred?

RAFAEL: The Mexican Mafia derives inspiration and ethnic pride from the concept of La Raza (Spanish, in this context, for "The Race"), as well as from the Aztec, Aztlan movement. And this goes way back. There was a Mexican Mafia shot caller back in the 1970s named Rudolph Cheyenne Cardena, and before he was killed by rival Mexican gang members in 1978 or 1977, Cardena saw the Mexican Mafia the way George Jackson [a prominent member of the original Black Panther Party who founded the Black Guerilla Family] saw the black prison movement. He wanted to change the Mexican Mafia into a political, socially active movement, and what he used for inspiration was the Aztec culture. He taught himself Nahuatl [the ancient language of the Aztecs], started teaching it to all the other homies. In fact, to this day they still use Nahuatl to send coded messages to one another -- these kinds of three level-coded messages. You have to know the code, and then Nahuatl and so on. And one of the symbols of the Mexican Mafia is the Aztec worship [symbol].

They've brought in the Aztec heritage as part of their philosophical inspiration, and there are no black people in the Aztec culture. La Raza comes first to these guys. They see themselves as a race unto themselves, and there's really not too much room for anybody else.

Just want to make it clear that my neighborhood MARAVILLA hasn't been part of the Sur for around 15 years now. We do not pay taxes and are greenlighted.

You have to look at the source: It's some dude who has never been involved with any gang and is out to SELL a book. He bases his whole book on the Pomona incident and the Avenues incident then spins it to support his main idea rather than spread truth and accuracy. He could never tell you what an active or ex gang member could tell you. While it isn't cool to target innocent civilians, Mexican gang members do not join their varrios to bang on blacks. It is just a few cats who want to earn stripes. Do I excuse it or am I down with it? No and no. All of my neighborhood enemies are/were Mexicans. Most street rivalries in LA County, traditonally do not cross racial lines, with Hispanics against Hispanics, Crips against Bloods, etc.. WHY IS THAT? I as a Mexican American could not safely wander into another varrio and not expect some repercussions. Does that mean we're trying to kill ouselves? Or is that just the way gangs operate? So, while there is SOME truth to the ariticle/interview, a few racial incidents, prison gang rivalries, the big picture painted by the media is NOT accurate. Instead of letting all your imagnations run wild with stories about Mexicans and posting sensationalized stories, I would suggest getting to know some real life cats. There's too much ignorance posted in this site, in the media, and in the streets. No matter what they say, "the Mexicans" aren't out to get you.

I'm sure there are some vatos on here too who could break it down for you with firsthand knowledge. It's up to you to believe it or not. There's really no reason to lie.

[TheReal]

To Martinez and Rollin, what you guys have to say about his article, that I took from a chicano website:

Gauging the Gangs

A respected writer spent five years studying the Mexican Mafia. What he discovered will shock even the most seasoned cop.
interview by Brentin Mock

For the past five years, -- who uses only the name he writes under in public because of his dangerous work -- has been researching one of the deadliest gangs in America for a nonfiction book he's writing on the Mexican Mafia, or "La Eme"(the Spanish word for the letter 'M'), tentatively titled Southern Soldiers.

The reason for this, Rafael has found, is that a longstanding prison gang war between the Mexican Mafia and the African-American prison gang, Black Guerilla Family, has led to a deep racial loathing between the gangs.

TONY RAFAEL: I've been researching for a book on the Mexican Mafia that will be published next year. I became aware of this as a result of that research,
IR: And this truly amounts to a policy of "ethnic cleansing"?

IR: Why would the gangs take up this kind of race war?

IR: And why do those orders include terrorizing and killing blacks?

RAFAEL: They don't want blacks in their neighborhoods. They say it makes their neighborhood look bad.

IR: The Avenues killings and the Avenues gang have been getting all the media attention recently, but there are a lot of other street gangs loyal to the Mexican Mafia. How many of them also target blacks?

RAFAEL: All of them. What happened in the Avenues is happening all over southern California. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's happening throughout all of Los Angeles, or that there's policy to drive blacks out of the entire metropolitan area, but it's certainly happening in all the areas where the Mexican Mafia and their allied gangs feel they have control.
For example, they don't control Beverly Hills or the west side of Los Angeles. But places like [the Los Angeles neighborhood of] Highland Park, very strong presence. Pomona, very strong. West and north San Fernando Valley, extremely strong. And these are places where you don't see many blacks living in the first place, so wherever the Mexican Mafia has a very strong or extremely strong presence, the blacks who live there are going to have problems.

IR: What level of truth is there to the rumor that Bloods and Crips are going to start carrying out similar racial attacks on Latinos as a form of revenge?

RAFAEL: It's already happening. There was one case in the Avenues already where three [Latino] family members were shot and killed by two black guys with AK-47s. The victims were civilians, not gang members. The killers rolled up on them in central Avenues, opened up on them with the AKs, then, after the [Latino] guys were down, the [black gang members] walked up and shot them in the back. It was coup de grâce, assassination, pure-out assassination. So, yes, unfortunately, it's started.

IR: Some people who live in Highland Park point out that many of these killings [of blacks] happened years ago, and that it was a relatively small problem caused by a relatively small group. But you're saying this is still a big problem today, in more areas than just Highland Park?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. It's not like if you're black they're definitely going to shoot you on sight if they only see you once in Highland Park. However, if you move there, like [2000 murder victim] Anthony Prudhomme, and they see you going in and out of your house all the time, or you start hanging out there regularly, like [2001 murder victim] Christopher Bowser, sitting in front of a bus bench with your boom box, yeah, you'll have problems.

IR: You think that was a cultural thing with Bowser, them not liking a black man imposing on their public space with noise from his boom box?

RAFAEL: I think the boom box just made him stick out more. They just didn't want Bowser hanging out there, period, because he was black. He had been beaten up and robbed before and called the usual epithets. The [1999 murder victim] Kenneth Wilson case, though, was weirder. Wilson didn't even live in Highland Park. He was just visiting a friend of his, and he went out to move his car because it was parked illegally, blocking somebody's driveway, and he had the random misfortune of coming across one of the four most vicious guys

IR: So then, if he carries out an assault or a killing because he's under racist orders, even though he's not a racist himself, is that still truly a hate crime, or is it more accurately described as a gang hit?

IR: Are there really any theories or ideology to the Mexican Mafia's racism, or is it just disorganized, visceral hatred?

RAFAEL: The Mexican Mafia derives inspiration and ethnic pride from the concept of La Raza (Spanish, in this context, for "The Race"), as well as from the Aztec, Aztlan movement. And this goes way back. There was a Mexican Mafia shot caller back in the 1970s named Rudolph Cheyenne Cardena, and before he was killed by rival Mexican gang members in 1978 or 1977, Cardena saw the Mexican Mafia the way George Jackson [a prominent member of the original Black Panther Party who founded the Black Guerilla Family] saw the black prison movement. He wanted to change the Mexican Mafia into a political, socially active movement, and what he used for inspiration was the Aztec culture. He taught himself Nahuatl [the ancient language of the Aztecs], started teaching it to all the other homies. In fact, to this day they still use Nahuatl to send coded messages to one another -- these kinds of three level-coded messages. You have to know the code, and then Nahuatl and so on. And one of the symbols of the Mexican Mafia is the Aztec worship [symbol].

They've brought in the Aztec heritage as part of their philosophical inspiration, and there are no black people in the Aztec culture. La Raza comes first to these guys. They see themselves as a race unto themselves, and there's really not too much room for anybody else.

Just want to make it clear that my neighborhood MARAVILLA hasn't been part of the Sur for around 15 years now. We do not pay taxes and are greenlighted.

You have to look at the source: It's some dude who has never been involved with any gang and is out to SELL a book. He bases his whole book on the Pomona incident and the Avenues incident then spins it to support his main idea rather than spread truth and accuracy. He could never tell you what an active or ex gang member could tell you. While it isn't cool to target innocent civilians, Mexican gang members do not join their varrios to bang on blacks. It is just a few cats who want to earn stripes. Do I excuse it or am I down with it? No and no. All of my neighborhood enemies are/were Mexicans. Most street rivalries in LA County, traditonally do not cross racial lines, with Hispanics against Hispanics, Crips against Bloods, etc.. WHY IS THAT? I as a Mexican American could not safely wander into another varrio and not expect some repercussions. Does that mean we're trying to kill ouselves? Or is that just the way gangs operate? So, while there is SOME truth to the ariticle/interview, a few racial incidents, prison gang rivalries, the big picture painted by the media is NOT accurate. Instead of letting all your imagnations run wild with stories about Mexicans and posting sensationalized stories, I would suggest getting to know some real life cats. There's too much ignorance posted in this site, in the media, and in the streets. No matter what they say, "the Mexicans" aren't out to get you.

I'm sure there are some vatos on here too who could break it down for you with firsthand knowledge. It's up to you to believe it or not. There's really no reason to lie.

*Man, I've written a five paragraph response to what you've just said, addressing everything listed in your post, and guess what? WHEN I TRIED TO POST IT, IT DIDN'T COME THROUGH FOR SOME REASON!!

Man, that was a waste of my fucking time, considering what transpired.

It's like this man, I hear what you're saying, and can respect what you're saying, HOWEVER, black folks are at war those who refer to themselves as surs, and as well as surs, and the average rank and file mexican, who feel that what black folks are being inflicted with, when it comes to the targeting of innocent black civilians, even if they are children, by surs, is poetic justice because of some supposed "oppression" we put on mexicans from back in the day, THEREFORE THIS SHIT WILL NEVER END-JUST SHOWS ME THAT FOLKS MUST WAKE UP, AND ORGANIZE, ORGANIZE, AND ORGANIZE!!!

[TheReal]

(This is a post, I addressed to a specific individual, on another website. The topic was racist surs and their sur sympathizers, feeling justified in killing innocent black civilians)

First off, I get a kick out of all of this historical revisionism that’s going on on this thread, concerning the origins of the Mexican Mafia, and their supposed revenge against the black race.

The Mexican Mafia didn’t come into being because of black inmates harassing and abusing mexicans, rather they came about because of THE WHITE INMATES HARASSING AND ABUSING THEM!!! Hell, the Black Guerilla Family didn’t even start up until the 60’s, whereas the Mexican Mafia was in existence during the 1950’s. Not only that, during the 1950’s on down, black folks weren’t even a powerhouse in prison, seeing as how the prison population at the time was PREDOMINANTLY WHITE!!! Blacks didn’t really make a dent until the mid 60’s, in regards to their numbers in prison, etc.

Furthermore, black street gangs never targeted mexicans moving into their neighborhoods, in an orchestrated campaign sort of a way. When black gangs ruled the streets of South Central L.A., and other parts of L.A., during the timeframes that I can remember (70’s, 80’s, and apart of the early 90’s), the most targeted group for these black gangs-WERE OTHER BLACK FOLKS!!!! I’ve had relatives burned alive, beaten, shot, raped, etc.-BY BLACK GANG MEMBERS!

Hell, this is why many black folks left those neighborhoods, allowing for mexicans and other central Americans to move in, because of the genocidal pogrom tip that it appeared many black gang members were on, when it came to killing and abusing their own people: BLACK PEOPLE!! Now of course there were mexicans that were fucked with in these hoods, but WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM HIGH CRIME AREAS, FOOLS!!

You think that mexicans living in those areas weren’t going to suffer from an overspill, of the abundance of crime that was mainly targeted at BLACK FOLKS, BY BLACK GANGS AND CRIMINALS!!! This asinine type of belief is similar to someone actually believing that they can walk in rain, and not get touched by the raindrops!

I remember back in the day, when mexicans would walk down a black hood/gang dominated area, and wouldn’t fucked with, but let that be a black person, whether they be male or female, and some black fools were sure to attack., or molest them!

Also, you can speak to any o.g, or veterano, and they’ll tell you that back in the day, within the areas of black gang dominated territories or hoods, you would have these Mexican start up barrios, with about 10 to 20 members, surrounded by a huge black gang of about 100 members, or so, and guess what? THESE ESE SURS WOULD NEVER GET FUCKED WITH!!

As a matter of fact, I’ve seeeeeeeeeen these black gangs, who could have easily stomped out these surs, with about 10 to 20 members, ignore these small barrios, just to go over into another area, AND RIDE ON THEIR BLACK BROTHERS AND SISTERS, WITH ABOUT 100 MEMBERS!!! Hell! I even remember black gangs, assisting these small barrios, in riding on their fellow chicano brothers, or other black gangs they may have had funk with-TELL ME I’M LYING!!!!!

Come on O.G. and Veterano! Come on down and speak on the truths I’m espousing from back in the day!!!

Simply put, black gangs weren’t perfect back in the day, neither are they perfect today, and will never be, but you know what-THEY DIDN’T, DURING THEIR REIGN, BRING ON THE PRESENT DAY DARKNESS OF RACISM THAT PERVADES THE ATMOSPHERE OF SO. CAL TODAY, BY INTENTIONALLY TARGETING MEXICANS, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICANS!!

Back in the day, you had your skirmishes between black and brown gangs, but it wasn’t on this level! Black folks traditionally been on a gang/rivalry, territory tip, WHERE AS SURS TODAY, ARE ON SOME TOTALLY RACIAL TIP!! Today, a black person may kill a mexican for mistaken identity reasons, or because they’re targeting any Mexican, in order to quench their revenge for a murder that was committed by a Mexican (which is bad enough, mind you)-BUT SURS REALLY DON’T NEED TO HAVE A REASON TO POP A BLACK PERSON, OUTSIDE OF THAT BLACK PERSON BEING IN THE WRONG UNIFORM, WHICH IS THEIR RACE!!!

In the end, IT'S ALL ABOUT PLACING SHIT IN ITS' PROPER PERSPECTIVE, WHEN YOU TRY TO COMPARE THE RACISM OF BLACK GANGS, OR BLACK FOLKS IN GENERAL, WITH THE RACISM OF SURS, AND THEIR SUR SYMPATHIZERS!!

Black gangs, again, back in the day, when they ruled the streets, never popped innocent Mexican civilians-JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICAN, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HATED MEXICANS!!!

Naw man, racist mexicans, surs and their sympathizers, have to reconstruct, deconstruct, and revise the history of their dealings with black folks, in order to justify their racist, genocidal and murderous rage towards black folks! Hell! If racist mexicans are on such a kick against black folks, in regards to revenge, THEN THERE OUGHT NOT BE ANY WHITE FOLKS LEFT LIVING AND BREATHING, ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHWEST, SEEING AS HOW IT WAS WHITE FOLKS WHO HAD BEATEN, RAPED, ENSLAVED, AND STOLE LANDS FROM YOUR PEOPLE!

But noooooooooooooooooooooooo, the only thing eses have on black folks, is uh, what? STREET CRIME SHIT, THAT BLACK FOLKS COMMIT WORSER ON OTHER BLACK FOLKS, THAN ANY OTHER GROUP!!!

Furthermore, before some racist bitch comes at me sideways, and get smashed on, if you reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaalllly want a snap shot of how it was back in the day, for mexicans, living in predominantly black/gang dominated hoods, then all you would have to do is study and observe mexicans who are presently living in black dominated gang hoods, or territories TODAY!!! Of course these folks lives may not be crystal stairs, but I damn sure know one thing, and that is THEY DO INDEED FARE BETTER IN BLACK HOODS OR GANG TERRITORIES, THAN DO BLACK FOLKS IN SUR BARRIOS!!

In black gang dominated hoods to this day, as well as back in the day, you have Mexican children playing with black children; mothers walking their babies, etc.-BUT YOU WON’T HARDLY SEE THAT SHIT, AGAIN, IN SUR TERRITORIES, BUT YET BLACK FOLKS ARE THE ONES ON SOME RACIST, AND MURDEROUS SHIT???!!! BUUUUUUUULLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIT!!!!

Again, I will say this, with the fear of sounding redundant, and that is-BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER PERFECT, STILL NOT PERFECT, AND WILL NEVER BE PERFECT, BUT I DAMN SURE KNOW THAT BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER ON SOME INTENTIONAL GENOCIDAL KICK AGAINST MEXICANS AS A WHOLE, AND IF IT DID OCCUR, IT WAS ISOLATED, AND UNORGANIZED INCIDENTS, THAT WERE LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF BLACK GANGS MAIN OBSESSIONS, WHICH WERE WITH ONE ANOTHER!!

Back in the day, black gangs, ese gangs, and other gangs, at least tolerated each other and respected each other’s boundaries. This whole new racial dynamic that is out there today, is thanks to La Eme, racist surs, and their sympathizers, which includes one fool on this thread-spewing their sophist historical revisions concerning a time when black folks supposedly oppressed mexicans severely-WHICH IS BS!!!

Motherfuckers talk about writing a book, HELL-I OUGHT TO WRITE ME A WHOLE ENTIRE BOOK ON THIS SHIT, AND EXPOSE THE REAL TRUTH!!

Now I’m through, unless there is a rebuttal needed. Peace…

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

(
Furthermore, black street gangs never targeted mexicans moving into their neighborhoods, in an orchestrated campaign sort of a way. When black gangs ruled the streets of South Central L.A., and other parts of L.A., during the timeframes that I can remember (70’s, 80’s, and apart of the early 90’s), the most targeted group for these black gangs-WERE OTHER BLACK FOLKS!!!! I’ve had relatives burned alive, beaten, shot, raped, etc.-BY BLACK GANG MEMBERS!

Hell, this is why many black folks left those neighborhoods, allowing for mexicans and other central Americans to move in, because of the genocidal pogrom tip that it appeared many black gang members were on, when it came to killing and abusing their own people: BLACK PEOPLE!!

Now of course there were mexicans that were #%@& with in these hoods, but WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM HIGH CRIME AREAS, FOOLS!!

You think that mexicans living in those areas weren’t going to suffer from an overspill, of the abundance of crime that was mainly targeted at BLACK FOLKS, BY BLACK GANGS AND CRIMINALS!!! This asinine type of belief is similar to someone actually believing that they can walk in rain, and not get touched by the raindrops!

Also, you can speak to any o.g, or veterano, and they’ll tell you that back in the day, within the areas of black gang dominated territories or hoods, you would have these Mexican start up barrios, with about 10 to 20 members, surrounded by a huge black gang of about 100 members, or so, and guess what? THESE ESE SURS WOULD NEVER GET #%@& WITH!!

Simply put, black gangs weren’t perfect back in the day, neither are they perfect today, and will never be, but you know what-THEY DIDN’T, DURING THEIR REIGN, BRING ON THE PRESENT DAY DARKNESS OF RACISM THAT PERVADES THE ATMOSPHERE OF SO. CAL TODAY, BY INTENTIONALLY TARGETING MEXICANS, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICANS!!

Black gangs, again, back in the day, when they ruled the streets, never popped innocent Mexican civilians-JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICAN, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HATED MEXICANS!!!

In black gang dominated hoods to this day, as well as back in the day, you have Mexican children playing with black children; mothers walking their babies, etc.-BUT YOU WON’T HARDLY SEE THAT SHIT, AGAIN, IN SUR TERRITORIES, BUT YET BLACK FOLKS ARE THE ONES ON SOME RACIST, AND MURDEROUS SHIT???!!! BUUUUUUUULLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIT!!!!

Again, I will say this, with the fear of sounding redundant, and that is-BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER PERFECT, STILL NOT PERFECT, AND WILL NEVER BE PERFECT, BUT I DAMN SURE KNOW THAT BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER ON SOME INTENTIONAL GENOCIDAL KICK AGAINST MEXICANS AS A WHOLE, AND IF IT DID OCCUR, IT WAS ISOLATED, AND UNORGANIZED INCIDENTS, THAT WERE LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF BLACK GANGS MAIN OBSESSIONS, WHICH WERE WITH ONE ANOTHER!!

Back in the day, black gangs, ese gangs, and other gangs, at least tolerated each other and respected each other’s boundaries. This whole new racial dynamic that is out there today, is thanks to La Eme, racist surs, and their sympathizers, which includes one fool on this thread-spewing their sophist historical revisions concerning a time when black folks supposedly oppressed mexicans severely-WHICH IS BS!!!

Motherfuckers talk about writing a book, HELL-I OUGHT TO WRITE ME A WHOLE ENTIRE BOOK ON THIS SHIT, AND EXPOSE THE REAL TRUTH!!

Now I’m through, unless there is a rebuttal needed. Peace…

The Real. You have answered your own questions. Just make sure it's a color blind book and make sure you use a MULTI PURPOSE-MULTI CULTURAL highlighter to highlight ALL injustice! Tell the whole story and HIS-STORY.

Yes the RECENT racial beef comes from penintentary politics. That's the reason alot of the older cats ain't down with it.

How many Mexicans do you know on a personal level?

[northsidehtown]

i read a article about how blacks feel about brown and vice versa , the blacks (our stupid asses) had way more love for the hispanics than they did for us . i aint mad at the eses for being the way they are im mad at my people for thinking everybody is our friend .always wanting to include other people of color in our mix , or strive for the whole rainbow , not taking enough time to judge the rainbow and see that the different rays wont ride for black. its an amazing comment a brother made and i have to agree with it the black man is the most hated and immatated , undeniably.

look how blacks even give credit to hispanics for things they did by themselves just for the sake of showing solidaity like civil rights issues. ok ,a black might of beat a mexicans ass but we dont hate you its not like fuck mexicans thats not our style look at us we cool with people especily wanted to be cool with yall cause yall poor and of color like us .

it would of been a beautiful thing if we could have strived together honestly i dont think mexicans ( the majority, maybe the real ones like the ones who know they are really the Red man NOT brown and that their is no reason in hell we should be beefing with each other) wanted to unite with blacks anyways they out for self and we should be too so all us happy go lucky niggers need to do the same. its not even beef just real .

lets try and unite with self before others , if you want to be international look at africa , if you just gotta unite with spanish speakers look to all the blacks in places who think their latino, cuba pr dr pannama colombia etc its alot of us their . brazil alone has 70 MILLION blacks .

MUCH LOVE TO THE REAL BLACKS AND MEXICANS BUT WAKE UP BLACK MAN EVERY BODY AINT YOUR FRIEND YOU CANT TRY HELP BUILD THE NEXT MANS HOUSE WHEN YOU AINT GOT YOUR SHET TOGETHER , CAUSE THAT MAN GOT BROTHERS(A SENSE OF FAMILY)OF HIS OWN ANYWAYZ AND WASNT REALLY CONCERNED WITH AN OUTSIDER IN THE FIRST PLACE . UNITE NIGGAS WE HAVE AWSOME POWER DESCENDENTS OF SLAVES , THE MOST HATED BUT YET THE MOST FOCKING IMMATATED

[RuthlessCray]

Ive done alot of thinking on this issue for a real long time. To keep it short, all I think is that their is good and evil in every race. When it comes down to it, I believe most Chicanos are good people without all that hate in their heart, but the ones full of hate are the ones who are always noticed the most.

Trust me it bothers me to hear about any innocent women and children getting killed for no good reason. IMO their is no excuse for that. Whether on purpose or not. You should get handled by your own homies for that shit.

[Coup]

^^^Good post...

I am old enough as a BLACK man to feel the same way.....you have good and bad all over....but....most BLACK men on the street fear other Black men more then they do hispanics....the intra-racial (???) beef, black on black has been and still is the main concern for brothers...

The difference now is that the racial beefs are getting more attention and the influence of racist Sur's is taking over the mentality of most (not all) LA sur's....

And I completely AGREE about the kids and innocent women being hurt....but today's surs (those calling shots) don't consider killing BLACK kids or women a problem.....

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

It's about JUSTICE and not JUST-US!

It is all OUR turf!

[TheReal]

i read a article about how blacks feel about brown and vice versa , the blacks (our stupid asses) had way more love for the hispanics than they did for us . i aint mad at the eses for being the way they are im mad at my people for thinking everybody is our friend .always wanting to include other people of color in our mix , or strive for the whole rainbow , not taking enough time to judge the rainbow and see that the different rays wont ride for black. its an amazing comment a brother made and i have to agree with it the black man is the most hated and immatated , undeniably.

look how blacks even give credit to hispanics for things they did by themselves just for the sake of showing solidaity like civil rights issues. ok ,a black might of beat a mexicans ass but we dont hate you its not like fu-- mexicans thats not our style look at us we cool with people especily wanted to be cool with yall cause yall poor and of color like us .

it would of been a beautiful thing if we could have strived together honestly i dont think mexicans ( the majority, maybe the real ones like the ones who know they are really the Red man NOT brown and that their is no reason in hell we should be beefing with each other) wanted to unite with blacks anyways they out for self and we should be too so all us happy go lucky niggers need to do the same. its not even beef just real .

lets try and unite with self before others , if you want to be international look at africa , if you just gotta unite with spanish speakers look to all the blacks in places who think their latino, cuba pr dr pannama colombia etc its alot of us their . brazil alone has 70 MILLION blacks .

MUCH LOVE TO THE REAL BLACKS AND MEXICANS BUT WAKE UP BLACK MAN EVERY BODY AINT YOUR FRIEND YOU CANT TRY HELP BUILD THE NEXT MANS HOUSE WHEN YOU AINT GOT YOUR SHET TOGETHER , CAUSE THAT MAN GOT BROTHERS(A SENSE OF FAMILY)OF HIS OWN ANYWAYZ AND WASNT REALLY CONCERNED WITH AN OUTSIDER IN THE FIRST PLACE . UNITE NIGGAS WE HAVE AWSOME POWER DESCENDENTS OF SLAVES , THE MOST HATED BUT YET THE MOST FOCKING IMMATATED

*You are most definitely a wise man...

[TheReal]

(
Furthermore, black street gangs never targeted mexicans moving into their neighborhoods, in an orchestrated campaign sort of a way. When black gangs ruled the streets of South Central L.A., and other parts of L.A., during the timeframes that I can remember (70’s, 80’s, and apart of the early 90’s), the most targeted group for these black gangs-WERE OTHER BLACK FOLKS!!!! I’ve had relatives burned alive, beaten, shot, raped, etc.-BY BLACK GANG MEMBERS!

Hell, this is why many black folks left those neighborhoods, allowing for mexicans and other central Americans to move in, because of the genocidal pogrom tip that it appeared many black gang members were on, when it came to killing and abusing their own people: BLACK PEOPLE!!

Now of course there were mexicans that were #%@& with in these hoods, but WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM HIGH CRIME AREAS, FOOLS!!

You think that mexicans living in those areas weren’t going to suffer from an overspill, of the abundance of crime that was mainly targeted at BLACK FOLKS, BY BLACK GANGS AND CRIMINALS!!! This asinine type of belief is similar to someone actually believing that they can walk in rain, and not get touched by the raindrops!

Also, you can speak to any o.g, or veterano, and they’ll tell you that back in the day, within the areas of black gang dominated territories or hoods, you would have these Mexican start up barrios, with about 10 to 20 members, surrounded by a huge black gang of about 100 members, or so, and guess what? THESE ESE SURS WOULD NEVER GET #%@& WITH!!

Simply put, black gangs weren’t perfect back in the day, neither are they perfect today, and will never be, but you know what-THEY DIDN’T, DURING THEIR REIGN, BRING ON THE PRESENT DAY DARKNESS OF RACISM THAT PERVADES THE ATMOSPHERE OF SO. CAL TODAY, BY INTENTIONALLY TARGETING MEXICANS, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICANS!!

Black gangs, again, back in the day, when they ruled the streets, never popped innocent Mexican civilians-JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE MEXICAN, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY HATED MEXICANS!!!

In black gang dominated hoods to this day, as well as back in the day, you have Mexican children playing with black children; mothers walking their babies, etc.-BUT YOU WON’T HARDLY SEE THAT SHIT, AGAIN, IN SUR TERRITORIES, BUT YET BLACK FOLKS ARE THE ONES ON SOME RACIST, AND MURDEROUS SHIT???!!! BUUUUUUUULLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIT!!!!

Again, I will say this, with the fear of sounding redundant, and that is-BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER PERFECT, STILL NOT PERFECT, AND WILL NEVER BE PERFECT, BUT I DAMN SURE KNOW THAT BLACK GANGS WERE NEVER ON SOME INTENTIONAL GENOCIDAL KICK AGAINST MEXICANS AS A WHOLE, AND IF IT DID OCCUR, IT WAS ISOLATED, AND UNORGANIZED INCIDENTS, THAT WERE LESS THAN ONE PERCENT OF BLACK GANGS MAIN OBSESSIONS, WHICH WERE WITH ONE ANOTHER!!

Back in the day, black gangs, ese gangs, and other gangs, at least tolerated each other and respected each other’s boundaries. This whole new racial dynamic that is out there today, is thanks to La Eme, racist surs, and their sympathizers, which includes one fool on this thread-spewing their sophist historical revisions concerning a time when black folks supposedly oppressed mexicans severely-WHICH IS BS!!!

Motherfuckers talk about writing a book, HELL-I OUGHT TO WRITE ME A WHOLE ENTIRE BOOK ON THIS SHIT, AND EXPOSE THE REAL TRUTH!!

Now I’m through, unless there is a rebuttal needed. Peace…

The Real. You have answered your own questions. Just make sure it's a color blind book and make sure you use a MULTI PURPOSE-MULTI CULTURAL highlighter to highlight ALL injustice! Tell the whole story and HIS-STORY.

Yes the RECENT racial beef comes from penintentary politics. That's the reason alot of the older cats ain't down with it.

How many Mexicans do you know on a personal level?

What do you mean that I answered my own questions? And yes, the extreme acts you see today, emanate from prison politics, HOWEVER, the racial sentiments that these prison politics play off of, is the racism that many mexicans have for black folks already. La Eme is just exploiting that bigotry.

And as far as me knowing mexicans on a personal level:

I attended a predominantly mexican high school, church (thanks to me living with my aunt who forced me to attend), hung out with mexicans, ate at their homes and vice-versa. Yes, I've known some cool mexicans in my day, just like black folks will know some cool white folks: get my drift?

In the end, I treat every one as individuals, but still do realize the racism that many mexicans hold for black folks, because believe you me, I've encountered it, and am greatly familiar with it, to where no one can tell me anything.

Hell, you have mexicans who were raised around black folks, and were cool with black folks, only to join a sur gang, and now all of a sudden want to commit genocide on black folks. If I were to ask him, how many black folks he knows, what do you expect his answer to be?

[TheReal]

It's about JUSTICE and not JUST-US!

It is all OUR turf!

I can stand behind that...

[MARTINEZ]

To Martinez and Rollin, what you guys have to say about his article, that I took from a chicano website:



Gauging the Gangs

A respected writer spent five years studying the Mexican Mafia. What he discovered will shock even the most seasoned cop.
interview by Brentin Mock

Whenever Tony Rafael leaves home, he carries a .45-caliber handgun nestled in a holster just below his armpit. A Cold Steel Recon-1 knife is stashed elsewhere on his person. Concealed weapons permits are hard to come by in Los Angeles County, but Rafael is a special case.

For the past five years, the respected writer and gang expert -- who uses only the name he writes under in public because of his dangerous work -- has been researching one of the deadliest gangs in America for a nonfiction book he's writing on the Mexican Mafia, or "La Eme"(the Spanish word for the letter 'M'), tentatively titled Southern Soldiers. His sources are of the "L.A. Confidential" variety: prison inmates, gang members past and present, homicide detectives, FBI agents and their informants. He has volunteered for the Los Angeles Police Department, conducting long-term surveillance outside gang hangouts, and has dug up the cases of hundreds of gang members from the county court system to document the bloody swath they've cut across Los Angeles.

One heart-arresting fact the streetwise investigator recently uncovered is that Mexican Mafia leaders have declared a "green light" on African Americans found in neighborhoods claimed by the powerful prison-based gang. This means that members of Latino street gangs affiliated with the La Eme are under orders to harass, assault, and even murder African-Americans, who Mexican Mafia leaders view as sub-human.

The reason for this, Rafael has found, is that a longstanding prison gang war between the Mexican Mafia and the African-American prison gang, Black Guerilla Family, has led to a deep racial loathing between the gangs that has spilled over into the streets of Los Angeles County.

Until now, media coverage of this issue has missed the Mexican Mafia connection by focusing narrowly on the convictions of four members of a single street gang, the Avenues, for violating federal hate crime laws by murdering blacks in the Highland Park neighborhood. According to Rafael and other gang experts, the problem is far more pervasive.

Rafael sat down with the Intelligence Report in his Los Angeles office in October to discuss the shocking truths he found about the Mexican Mafia and how its leaders have ordered Latino gangs outside the prisons to sow terror among African Americans.

INTELLIGENCE REPORT: How did you find out about the Mexican Mafia's policy of racist violence against blacks?

TONY RAFAEL: I've been researching for a book on the Mexican Mafia that will be published next year. I became aware of this as a result of that research, and it was a shock. I knew the Mexican Mafia collected taxes [from street gangs], but I didn't realize they had initiated a policy of ethnic cleansing. This comes from the top. This comes from the shot callers. The guy who issued the order to the Avenues [one of many Mexican Mafia-controlled street gangs] to get rid of all blacks was a guy by the name of Alex "Pee Wee" Aguirre. Aguirre is a made man in the Mexican Mafia, he came from the Avenues originally, and he's currently serving a life term at a federal penitentiary in Marion, Ill.

IR: And this truly amounts to a policy of "ethnic cleansing"?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. These cases are scary. Take [Latino gang member] Frank Limón -- he shot a black male named Eric Green. Green and a friend of his were stopped at a stop sign on 11th Street and Pomona [in Pomona], and Limón just came up to him and shot him in the head, wounding him severely. Green is partially paralyzed, he's developed cognitive disorders, and he walks slowly, because the bullet is lodged in his brain and can't be removed.
Limón grew up next to black families in the neighborhood. He and Green knew each other and had no problems with each other personally. In fact, Limón used to go to Green's birthday parties when they were kids. But a week after Limón was jumped into the Pomona 12 [street gang], he started shooting at black kids because the Mexican Mafia had "green lighted" all blacks in the neighborhood. And when you click up with a gang that's loyal to the Mexican Mafia, the Mexican Mafia comes before God, your family, and your friends going all the way back to childhood. When they tell you to do something, you gotta do it.

IR: Why would the gangs take up this kind of race war?

RAFAEL: Well, to understand the background to these racial shootings and homicides you need to first understand some background on how the Mexican Mafia operates. They're primarily a prison gang, like the Black Guerilla Family and Aryan Brotherhood. What the Mexican Mafia has been able to do is project power outside of the prison system. There are only about 250 to 300 Mexican Mafia members in the California prison system that are fully validated ["made"] members, but what I compare them to are the generals and colonels of an army out on the streets. Everything south of Bakersfield is considered a Mexican Mafia stronghold, basically what you call sureños, or "south-siders."
Those sureños are obliged, whether they like it or not, to swear allegiance to the Mexican Mafia. If you're a little gang member in Avenues [the name of a Los Angeles neighborhood, as well as the gang that operates there] or Conoga Park and you're dealing in drugs, or some other illegal activity, you have to pay the Mexican Mafia a street tax. If you're dealing dope, you gotta buy your dope from the Mexican Mafia, you sell it and once you sell it you owe them a percentage of your profits.
In southern California, the Mexican Mafia and the [other] Hispanic street gangs have achieved what I call complete vertical integration. Say there's a little gang member who'll get arrested, he'll go to prison, and the minute he lands in prison they give him what they call the "X Files," the rules and regulations of the Mexican Mafia.
For example, one of those rules is that, if you're on a tier, if you're in the number one or the last cell in the tier, and you're celled up with another Mexican, one of you two has to stay awake at all times. That's the rules, so no one will sneak up on you. Also, the bloqueros, the guys in charge of the cell block, they have to collect from everyone on the tier and kick up to the Mexican Mafia leaders. They control the county jails and the state prison system. And because they control the jails and the prisons, they control the streets, because if you're an independent and you say, "Screw you. I don't wanna pay my taxes," they will either get you on the street -- they green light you and kill you, assault you, whatever they wanna do -- or they catch you when you enter the prison system.
You have to understand, these gang members are looking to go to jail or prison. They expect it. To them, it's just an extension of the streets. All their friends are there, their family's there, all their ol' homies from growing up in the 'hood, they're all there. But if they want to remain a part of that culture, and if they want to be under the Mexican Mafia's protection, they have to obey the Mexican Mafia's rules and follow their orders, inside and outside the penal system.

IR: And why do those orders include terrorizing and killing blacks?

RAFAEL: They don't want blacks in their neighborhoods. They say it makes their neighborhood look bad.
It started with the Mexican Mafia ordering street gangs to cleanse themselves of black members, before they moved on to cleansing neighborhoods. For example, the 18th Street gang, this was a [MacArthur Park neighborhood] gang that had blacks and Hispanics in it for a long time, up until about 10 years ago, when the Mexican Mafia leaders told the 18th Street, "If you don't want to get green-lighted, get all the blacks out of your gang." They had to go. Before that, the 18th Street gang was an equal opportunity employer. But the Mexican Mafia said, "We can't have it, can't have blacks in our gangs."
The way I hear these knuckleheads tell it, they don't want their neighborhoods infested with blacks, as if it's an infestation. It's just pure racial animosity that manifests itself in a policy of a major criminal organization.

IR: Does the Mexican Mafia have the same policy toward whites or Asians?

RAFAEL: No. In fact, in the California prison system the Aryan Brotherhood and the Mexican Mafia have made an alliance to gang up against the Black Guerilla Family. It's common knowledge in the prison system that if there's a fight between a Mexican Mafia member and a black inmate, and there aren't enough Mexican Mafia guys to jump on his side, the Aryans are supposed to jump in on his side. This is an alliance that goes back 20 years. The Mexican Mafia and the Aryan Brotherhood have a mutual racial hatred for blacks.

IR: The Avenues killings and the Avenues gang have been getting all the media attention recently, but there are a lot of other street gangs loyal to the Mexican Mafia. How many of them also target blacks?

RAFAEL: All of them. What happened in the Avenues is happening all over southern California. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's happening throughout all of Los Angeles, or that there's policy to drive blacks out of the entire metropolitan area, but it's certainly happening in all the areas where the Mexican Mafia and their allied gangs feel they have control.
For example, they don't control Beverly Hills or the west side of Los Angeles. But places like [the Los Angeles neighborhood of] Highland Park, very strong presence. Pomona, very strong. West and north San Fernando Valley, extremely strong. And these are places where you don't see many blacks living in the first place, so wherever the Mexican Mafia has a very strong or extremely strong presence, the blacks who live there are going to have problems. The federal government is aware of this, and the decision to prosecute the Avenues using federal hate crime laws came from the highest levels of the U.S. Attorney's office. They were basically using the Avenues case to send a message to the Mexican Mafia leaders, to say, "This is not going to happen."

IR: And are those gang leaders getting the message?

RAFAEL: They got it, but they don't care. It's not like their reaction has been, "Message heard, okay, we're gonna back off." One week before the [Avenues federal hate crimes trial] ended, another black kid was killed by the Avenues 43.

IR: What level of truth is there to the rumor that Bloods and Crips are going to start carrying out similar racial attacks on Latinos as a form of revenge?

RAFAEL: It's already happening. There was one case in the Avenues already where three [Latino] family members were shot and killed by two black guys with AK-47s. The victims were civilians, not gang members. The killers rolled up on them in central Avenues, opened up on them with the AKs, then, after the [Latino] guys were down, the [black gang members] walked up and shot them in the back. It was coup de grâce, assassination, pure-out assassination. So, yes, unfortunately, it's started.

IR: Some people who live in Highland Park point out that many of these killings [of blacks] happened years ago, and that it was a relatively small problem caused by a relatively small group. But you're saying this is still a big problem today, in more areas than just Highland Park?

RAFAEL: Absolutely. It's not like if you're black they're definitely going to shoot you on sight if they only see you once in Highland Park. However, if you move there, like [2000 murder victim] Anthony Prudhomme, and they see you going in and out of your house all the time, or you start hanging out there regularly, like [2001 murder victim] Christopher Bowser, sitting in front of a bus bench with your boom box, yeah, you'll have problems.

IR: You think that was a cultural thing with Bowser, them not liking a black man imposing on their public space with noise from his boom box?

RAFAEL: I think the boom box just made him stick out more. They just didn't want Bowser hanging out there, period, because he was black. He had been beaten up and robbed before and called the usual epithets. The [1999 murder victim] Kenneth Wilson case, though, was weirder. Wilson didn't even live in Highland Park. He was just visiting a friend of his, and he went out to move his car because it was parked illegally, blocking somebody's driveway, and he had the random misfortune of coming across one of the four most vicious guys there are, [Avenues gang member Gilbert "Lucky"] Saldana.
Saldana is an outright racist. He's the one who uttered the infamous words, "Wanna kill a nigger?" before Wilson was shot. And Wilson was targeted at random. He was just parking his car when these guys went out looking to kill a black guy. He was totally innocent.

IR: Let's say a member of a street gang under the Mexican Mafia's authority obeys all the other rules and pays his taxes, but when it comes to terrorizing blacks, he says, "Look, I have no problem with black people just for being black, so I don't want to do this," does he have that kind of wiggle room?

RAFAEL: No.

IR: So then, if he carries out an assault or a killing because he's under racist orders, even though he's not a racist himself, is that still truly a hate crime, or is it more accurately described as a gang hit?

RAFAEL: The guys prosecuted in the [federal] Avenues case, there was nobody holding a gun to their head. They went out looking for blacks to kill to earn stripes, and to curry favor and to bring up their status with the Mexican Mafia. They may have hated blacks and been down with killing blacks to begin with, or they may have just said, "To show you I'm with the program, I'll go out and do what I gotta do." But the end result is the same, and it's really at a basic level driven by the same sort of racial purity theories as nut groups like the KKK.

IR: Are there really any theories or ideology to the Mexican Mafia's racism, or is it just disorganized, visceral hatred?

RAFAEL: The Mexican Mafia derives inspiration and ethnic pride from the concept of La Raza (Spanish, in this context, for "The Race"), as well as from the Aztec, Aztlan movement. And this goes way back. There was a Mexican Mafia shot caller back in the 1970s named Rudolph Cheyenne Cardena, and before he was killed by rival Mexican gang members in 1978 or 1977, Cardena saw the Mexican Mafia the way George Jackson [a prominent member of the original Black Panther Party who founded the Black Guerilla Family] saw the black prison movement. He wanted to change the Mexican Mafia into a political, socially active movement, and what he used for inspiration was the Aztec culture. He taught himself Nahuatl [the ancient language of the Aztecs], started teaching it to all the other homies. In fact, to this day they still use Nahuatl to send coded messages to one another -- these kinds of three level-coded messages. You have to know the code, and then Nahuatl and so on. And one of the symbols of the Mexican Mafia is the Aztec worship [symbol].

They've brought in the Aztec heritage as part of their philosophical inspiration, and there are no black people in the Aztec culture. La Raza comes first to these guys. They see themselves as a race unto themselves, and there's really not too much room for anybody else.

I just finished reading Tony Rafael's "INTERPRETATION" and I do NOT agree with it.

He's putting way too much of "what he thinks is" happening....

That only true *** GANG EXPERTS ARE GANG MEMBERS ***

that's it!!

He sure the fu-ck don't speak for me.!

---------

Oh and ......"The Real".....
Don't bother with the long replies.... I do NOT read them.

I can only stomach about 2 sentences before I completely ignore your shit.!!

If you want to "dialogue" with me, KEEP IT VERY SHORT & TO THE POINT...

And miss me with all that devil shit, and KKK analogies....that will only piss me off.

and I'll do what I can to "PROPERLY REPRESENT THE SOUTHERN CHICANO"

who is NOT what you think he his...

Martinez

[Mcminister]

WOW to be honest i never thought this thread would get this far 11 pages
i don even kno wtf a chino is
rollin 20's dats snoop niggaz heard bout them n MC eiht
so wtf snoop do to this chino grande

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

What do you mean that I answered my own questions? And yes, the extreme acts you see today, emanate from prison politics, HOWEVER, the racial sentiments that these prison politics play off of, is the racism that many mexicans have for black folks already. La Eme is just exploiting that bigotry.

And as far as me knowing mexicans on a personal level:

I attended a predominantly mexican high school, church (thanks to me living with my aunt who forced me to attend), hung out with mexicans, ate at their homes and vice-versa. Yes, I've known some cool mexicans in my day, just like black folks will know some cool white folks: get my drift?

In the end, I treat every one as individuals

Well it’s like this, one of the reasons why La Eme flexed their muscles against black folks, because they realized there was going to be a population shift, whereby the Mexican community would eventually outnumber the black community in southern california, whereby they would be able to comfortably, “lay down the law” so to speak, against black gang domination. Furthermore, seeing as how So. Cal., especially L.A., is a gang culture, of course the outcome that you see, in regards to racist surs taking upon the mantle of the KKK, would come to pass-BUT THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY’RE NOT FUELED AND EXPLOITED, BY THE RACISM THAT MEXICANS HAVE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS ALREADY!!

In other words, prison politics alone, couldn’t sustain the ongoing hatred that these racist surs manifest towards all black folks. Rather the arrogance, and cocksureness of their numbers as mexicans, buttressed by a latent racist agenda, and/or racism, that the Mexican community has always had for the black community, but never could fully express-IS WHAT IS PRODUCING THE GENOCIDAL AND KLU-KLUX HATRED OF CONTEMPORARY SURS, TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT, AND REVISE HISTORY, CONCERNING SOME SUPPOSED OPPRESSION THEY FACED AT THE HANDS OF BLACK FOLKS, WHICH SOMEHOW JUSTIFIES THEIR EVIL HATRED TOWARDS ALL BLACK FOLKS, AND NOT JUST CRIPS AND BLOODS!

but still do realize the racism that many mexicans hold for black folks, because believe you me, I've encountered it, and am greatly familiar with it, to where no one can tell me anything.

Hell, you have mexicans who were raised around black folks, and were cool with black folks, only to join a sur gang, and now all of a sudden want to commit genocide on black folks. If I were to ask him, how many black folks he knows, what do you expect his answer to be?[/quote][/quote]

That's right, you answered your own questions. You basically wanted to know why things are going down the way it's going down. I basically said that it's because there are racist people in every race and streetgang racism is a result of politics. Nobody is innocent. So what I'm saying to you is, if you're gonna point fingers, why not tell the whole story? Don't tell half truths or spread sensationalized news stories. We know there's "things" going down in the pen and on the streets here and there but it's FAR from an all out race war, which is what people who don't really know and aren't on the front lines, want to hear. Why out of all the positives between brown and black, only a couple of bad incidents gets published and makes your posts? I'm saying, if you're gonna be about something "The REAL" then be all the way REAL. Don't be HALF REAL. That's where I'm at with mines!! I'm from the old school. I'm on probation.

[LEATHAFACE]

ROLLIN IN MY SIX FO SAID -I'm from the old school. I'm on probation.



JUST THAUGT THAT SHIT WAS FUNNY

[TheReal]

What do you mean that I answered my own questions? And yes, the extreme acts you see today, emanate from prison politics, HOWEVER, the racial sentiments that these prison politics play off of, is the racism that many mexicans have for black folks already. La Eme is just exploiting that bigotry.

And as far as me knowing mexicans on a personal level:

I attended a predominantly mexican high school, church (thanks to me living with my aunt who forced me to attend), hung out with mexicans, ate at their homes and vice-versa. Yes, I've known some cool mexicans in my day, just like black folks will know some cool white folks: get my drift?

In the end, I treat every one as individuals

Well it’s like this, one of the reasons why La Eme flexed their muscles against black folks, because they realized there was going to be a population shift, whereby the Mexican community would eventually outnumber the black community in southern california, whereby they would be able to comfortably, “lay down the law” so to speak, against black gang domination. Furthermore, seeing as how So. Cal., especially L.A., is a gang culture, of course the outcome that you see, in regards to racist surs taking upon the mantle of the KKK, would come to pass-BUT THIS DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY’RE NOT FUELED AND EXPLOITED, BY THE RACISM THAT MEXICANS HAVE TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS ALREADY!!

In other words, prison politics alone, couldn’t sustain the ongoing hatred that these racist surs manifest towards all black folks. Rather the arrogance, and cocksureness of their numbers as mexicans, buttressed by a latent racist agenda, and/or racism, that the Mexican community has always had for the black community, but never could fully express-IS WHAT IS PRODUCING THE GENOCIDAL AND KLU-KLUX HATRED OF CONTEMPORARY SURS, TO WHERE THEY HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT, AND REVISE HISTORY, CONCERNING SOME SUPPOSED OPPRESSION THEY FACED AT THE HANDS OF BLACK FOLKS, WHICH SOMEHOW JUSTIFIES THEIR EVIL HATRED TOWARDS ALL BLACK FOLKS, AND NOT JUST CRIPS AND BLOODS!

but still do realize the racism that many mexicans hold for black folks, because believe you me, I've encountered it, and am greatly familiar with it, to where no one can tell me anything.

Hell, you have mexicans who were raised around black folks, and were cool with black folks, only to join a sur gang, and now all of a sudden want to commit genocide on black folks. If I were to ask him, how many black folks he knows, what do you expect his answer to be?

[/quote]

That's right, you answered your own questions. You basically wanted to know why things are going down the way it's going down. I basically said that it's because there are racist people in every race and streetgang racism is a result of politics. Nobody is innocent. So what I'm saying to you is, if you're gonna point fingers, why not tell the whole story? Don't tell half truths or spread sensationalized news stories. We know there's "things" going down in the pen and on the streets here and there but it's FAR from an all out race war, which is what people who don't really know and aren't on the front lines, want to hear. Why out of all the positives between brown and black, only a couple of bad incidents gets published and makes your posts? I'm saying, if you're gonna be about something "The REAL" then be all the way REAL. Don't be HALF REAL. That's where I'm at with mines!! I'm from the old school. I'm on probation.[/quote]


There was nothing in what I said, that would be, and can be, considered HALF REAL!! I told the whole unadulterated truth, in regards to divulging a part of my own personal life and experiences, as well as the history of black gangs, and how they use to terrorize their own communities. I also dealt with the accusations that many of your kind level at black gangs, and black folks in general, when it comes to this supposed pogrom that black folks inflicted on your people, from "back in the day," when black gangs ruled huge parts of L.A., or when certain areas were predominantly black.

I discussed how the crime that was inflicted upon mexicans/chicanos back in the day, was just an overspill of the crime wave that black folks were committing against one another IN FULL FORCE, to where it didn't even compare, because ultimately-BLACK FOLKS WERE THE PRIMARY VICTIMS OF BLACK GANG VIOLENCE, TO WHERE IT FORCED MANY BLACK RESIDENTS TO FLEE AND ESCAPE THOSE COMMUNITIES! Furthermore, I also highlighted that the justifications that modern day surs, and the average rank and file mexicans make, in regards to the angsts your kind have towards black folks, to where much of the genocidal violence that is inflicted upon my community, by your racist brethren is understandable-AS BEING BOGUS!

(Hell, like I said in a previous post on this thread, if mexicans were really about vengeance for wrong doings done to them, then there shouldn't be any white folks left alive, across the southwest, seeing as how it was folks who were classified as white, who enslaved them, stole their lands, and committed genocidal acts upon them.)

As I said before, so say I now and again, and that is, back in the day, black gangs, whether it be prison politics, or on the street level, never orchestrated, nor received as a mandate, the outright genocidal murders of mexicans/chicanos, just because they were mexican/chicano-AND IF YOU'RE OLD SCHOOL, YOU KNOW I'M TELLING THE TRUTH!!

You talk about me telling the whole truth, well-WHEREIN HAVE I NOT TOLD THE WHOLE TRUTH? Again, did I not say that black gangs back in the day were no angels, and still are no angels, but despite that fact, black gangs didn't institute all of this dark level of racism, between gangs of various ethnic groups, the way the modern day surs have, during their present reign. It is surs, modern day racist surs, especially of this younger generation, who is bearing down upon the City of Angels, this savage, and cutthroat, racial jungle-BLACK GANGS NEVER DID THIS, DESPITE ALL OF THEIR VOLUMINOUS FAULTS!

And you know I'm telling the truth, when I say that many mexicans, even though they don't share the excess beliefs of racist surs, when it come to their genocidal mindset towards black folks, they will nevertheless feel that there's a reason behind their (racist surs) madness-which lies in obtaining revenge for their mexican ancestors, who supposedly suffered at the hands of the nigger, from back in the day. This falsehood has to be preached, in order to justify the intentional hatred, many mexicans want to have towards black folks anyway!

Many mexicans believe that black folks are too lazy; complain too much; more racist than anyone else; don't deserve what they have, because they really don't belong on "their (MEXICAN) land;" stole mexican/chicano culture (yeah right); only care about their own people's plight, and not about mexicans/chicanos (as if mexicans/chicanos don't feel the same way; probably even more so than black folks, from all available evidence); etc.

Many mexicans, whether they be racist, or non-racist, right, or wrong (trust me, I have counters to those above positions, but that's for another discussion), will hold such views, which again, are the views of racist surs, amongst other types of beliefs. This is why many of the average rank and file mexican, who doesn't consider themselves racist, will say that the violence between black and brown will never go away.

Why do they say this??? Because they know their own people, and how warring with black folks, and having something against black folks-IS LIKE A RITE OF PASSAGE, THAT WILL NEVER END, BECAUSE OF AN OBSESSION BY MANY MEXICANS, ESPECIALLY MALES, TO BE BETTER THAN THE NIGGER, WHEN IT COMES TO MACHISMO AND MANLINESS, AND IF YOU CAN PUNK OUT A BLACK MAN, THEN YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING!! This is like a sickness and obsession!

But I digress...

Anyway, this is what your people say and believe, in regards to the war against black and brown, because many of your people, whether they be racist or not, really don't give a damn about this war, seeing as how they have the safe and secure feeling in knowing that they have the numbers, and that even though genocidal killings isnt' their cup of tea-IT'S A DIRTY JOB THAT SOMEONE HAS TO DO!

This is why when black folks would complain about sur racist violence, or general mexican racism, plenty of your people would declare that black folks are just receiving their just rewards as a group of people, or that it was black folks who started all of this racial violence, back in the day, as well as the present.

Remember, the media has always sided with your people, when it came to this black and brown conflict. Every time the media would report on tensions between black folks and mexicans, it would always be about black folks, and their racist xenophobia, and how they were the aggressors. And guess what? Folks like yourself, as well as others of your kind, would never contradict, or have anything to say about the matter, when black folks were being solely blamed for the present racial tensions between blacks and mexicans. Not only that, talks of unity with black folks, hardly ever manifested during this time.

But now that the spotlight is being foisted upon mexicans, and in particular racist surs and their sympathizers, in regards to them being the aggressors, WELL LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE DISCOVERED HERE!!!!!! All of this BS dealing with racist surs and their genocidal campaign against the black community in L.A being about "mexican vengeance," because of what black folks did to them in the past IS NOW DISCOVERED TO BE BS!!!!!

Why? BECAUSE THE RACIST SENTIMENTS THAT MANY IN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY ALREADY HAD TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS, THAT WAS BUTTRESSED WITH MYTHS AND SPURIOUS HISTORICAL INTERPRETATIONS, WAS EXPLOITED BY A RACIST PRISON ENTITY (La Eme), THAT INSTRUCTED THEIR SUR UNDERLINGS TO MAKE WAR ON THE TOTAL BLACK COMMUNITY, WHETHER THEY BE MALE OR FEMALE; YOUNG OR OLD; AFFILIATED, OR NON-AFFILIATED!!!!

All of this time, folks thought that black folks in general, were just picking on mexicans, therefore mexicans were retaliating, whereas the true reality was and is, that black folks in L.A, really don't have to do anything, FOR MANY OF YOUR KIND, ESPECIALLY RACIST SURS, TO FUCK WITH THEM, or at the very least-MURDER THEM!

Why? BECAUSE IN THE END, WITHIN THE MINDS OF MANY RACIST SURS AND THEIR SYMPATHIZERS, BEING BLACK IS ENOUGH TO GET POPPED!

You talk about half truths being put forth, and not the total truth, well-THAT'S SOME REAL TRUTH FOR YOUR ASS RIGHT THERE: a truth that wasn't being totally put out there before, because of the lies and propaganda by many of your people, including the media, who declared black folks as the primary aggressors, whereas the mexican community were the poor hapless victims, then and now, of black tyranny.

Shit ain't equal between black and mexican racism towards one another.

You know that black folks are quicker to want to make overtures towards your people, than your people are towards black folks. You know that many of your people view black folks who talk about black and brown unity, as being the type of black folks who only want unity with mexicans/chicanos, because they hate themselves, and are trying to absorb themselves within the latino milieu, and so forth, in regards to piggybacking off of the benefits that latinos may receive because because of their ascendency within the population in recent years.

This is how many of your people feel about black folks who talk any of that oneness or racial unity stuff, and you know this.

Truth be told, many of your people don't want any type of working relationship or unity with black folks as a whole, and you know what? THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!! Just don't accuse black folks of being racist, when we totally begin to take upon that mindset-a mindset we really never had in the beginning.

(If there is any silver lining in all of this, it lies in the fact that racist mexicans/chicanos/latinos, are forcing black folks to see the reality that they really have no allies, from other races, and that in the end, all they really have, besides God-IS EACH OTHER!)

Naw man, I can go and on, with this one, but to accuse me of only putting forths half truths, that are not totally holistic of the present reality-IS A HALF TRUTH, AND YOU'RE NOT BEING TOTALLY REAL YOURSELF!

Here we are, black folks, a minority in L.A. in regards to our numbers, and gang participation, to where mexican gang membership quadruples that of black gang membership, by leaps and bounds, and we still give eses a run for their money; and are viewed as such threats to where racist surs don't feel that taking out black gang members is substantial enough-THEY HAVE TO TAKE OUT THE WHOLE BLACK POPULATION IN GENERAL.

Again, black gangs were never perfect, and still aren't perfect, but they never had as an agenda, despite their imperfections, from the higher ups, TO COMMIT GENOCIDE UPON ANOTHER "darker" RACE OF PEOPLE! But guess what, those within your ranks-HAVE DEFINITELY CALLED FOR THAT AGAINST BLACK FOLKS!

[Rollin_inmy_SixFo]

[There was nothing in what I said, that would be, and can be, considered HALF REAL!! I told the whole unadulterated truth, in regards to divulging a part of my own personal life and experiences, as well as the history of black gangs, and how they use to terrorize their own communities. I also dealt with the accusations that many of your kind level at black gangs, and black folks in general, when it comes to this supposed pogrom that black folks inflicted on your people, from "back in the day," when black gangs ruled huge parts of L.A., or when certain areas were predominantly black.

I discussed how the crime that was inflicted upon mexicans/chicanos back in the day, was just an overspill of the crime wave that black folks were committing against one another IN FULL FORCE, to where it didn't even compare, because ultimately-BLACK FOLKS WERE THE PRIMARY VICTIMS OF BLACK GANG VIOLENCE, TO WHERE IT FORCED MANY BLACK RESIDENTS TO FLEE AND ESCAPE THOSE COMMUNITIES! Furthermore, I also highlighted that the justifications that modern day surs, and the average rank and file mexicans make, in regards to the angsts your kind have towards black folks, to where much of the genocidal violence that is inflicted upon my community, by your racist brethren is understandable-AS BEING BOGUS!

(Hell, like I said in a previous post on this thread, if mexicans were really about vengeance for wrong doings done to them, then there shouldn't be any white folks left alive, across the southwest, seeing as how it was folks who were classified as white, who enslaved them, stole their lands, and committed genocidal acts upon them.)

As I said before, so say I now and again, and that is, back in the day, black gangs, whether it be prison politics, or on the street level, never orchestrated, nor received as a mandate, the outright genocidal murders of mexicans/chicanos, just because they were mexican/chicano-AND IF YOU'RE OLD SCHOOL, YOU KNOW I'M TELLING THE TRUTH!!

You talk about me telling the whole truth, well-WHEREIN HAVE I NOT TOLD THE WHOLE TRUTH? Again, did I not say that black gangs back in the day were no angels, and still are no angels, but despite that fact, black gangs didn't institute all of this dark level of racism, between gangs of various ethnic groups, the way the modern day surs have, during their present reign. It is surs, modern day racist surs, especially of this younger generation, who is bearing down upon the City of Angels, this savage, and cutthroat, racial jungle-BLACK GANGS NEVER DID THIS, DESPITE ALL OF THEIR VOLUMINOUS FAULTS!

And you know I'm telling the truth, when I say that many mexicans, even though they don't share the excess beliefs of racist surs, when it come to their genocidal mindset towards black folks, they will nevertheless feel that there's a reason behind their (racist surs) madness-which lies in obtaining revenge for their mexican ancestors, who supposedly suffered at the hands of the nigger, from back in the day. This falsehood has to be preached, in order to justify the intentional hatred, many mexicans want to have towards black folks anyway!

Many mexicans believe that black folks are too lazy; complain too much; more racist than anyone else; don't deserve what they have, because they really don't belong on "their (MEXICAN) land;" stole mexican/chicano culture (yeah right); only care about their own people's plight, and not about mexicans/chicanos (as if mexicans/chicanos don't feel the same way; probably even more so than black folks, from all available evidence); etc.

Many mexicans, whether they be racist, or non-racist, right, or wrong (trust me, I have counters to those above positions, but that's for another discussion), will hold such views, which again, are the views of racist surs, amongst other types of beliefs. This is why many of the average rank and file mexican, who doesn't consider themselves racist, will say that the violence between black and brown will never go away.

Why do they say this??? Because they know their own people, and how warring with black folks, and having something against black folks-IS LIKE A RITE OF PASSAGE, THAT WILL NEVER END, BECAUSE OF AN OBSESSION BY MANY MEXICANS, ESPECIALLY MALES, TO BE BETTER THAN THE NIGGER, WHEN IT COMES TO MACHISMO AND MANLINESS, AND IF YOU CAN PUNK OUT A BLACK MAN, THEN YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING!! This is like a sickness and obsession!

But I digress...

Anyway, this is what your people say and believe, in regards to the war against black and brown, because many of your people, whether they be racist or not, really don't give a damn about this war, seeing as how they have the safe and secure feeling in knowing that they have the numbers, and that even though genocidal killings isnt' their cup of tea-IT'S A DIRTY JOB THAT SOMEONE HAS TO DO!

This is why when black folks would complain about sur racist violence, or general mexican racism, plenty of your people would declare that black folks are just receiving their just rewards as a group of people, or that it was black folks who started all of this racial violence, back in the day, as well as the present.

Remember, the media has always sided with your people, when it came to this black and brown conflict. Every time the media would report on tensions between black folks and mexicans, it would always be about black folks, and their racist xenophobia, and how they were the aggressors. And guess what? Folks like yourself, as well as others of your kind, would never contradict, or have anything to say about the matter, when black folks were being solely blamed for the present racial tensions between blacks and mexicans. Not only that, talks of unity with black folks, hardly ever manifested during this time.

But now that the spotlight is being foisted upon mexicans, and in particular racist surs and their sympathizers, in regards to them being the aggressors, WELL LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE DISCOVERED HERE!!!!!! All of this BS dealing with racist surs and their genocidal campaign against the black community in L.A being about "mexican vengeance," because of what black folks did to them in the past IS NOW DISCOVERED TO BE BS!!!!!

Why? BECAUSE THE RACIST SENTIMENTS THAT MANY IN THE MEXICAN COMMUNITY ALREADY HAD TOWARDS BLACK FOLKS, THAT WAS BUTTRESSED WITH MYTHS AND SPURIOUS HISTORICAL INTERPRETATIONS, WAS EXPLOITED BY A RACIST PRISON ENTITY (La Eme), THAT INSTRUCTED THEIR SUR UNDERLINGS TO MAKE WAR ON THE TOTAL BLACK COMMUNITY, WHETHER THEY BE MALE OR FEMALE; YOUNG OR OLD; AFFILIATED, OR NON-AFFILIATED!!!!

All of this time, folks thought that black folks in general, were just picking on mexicans, therefore mexicans were retaliating, whereas the true reality was and is, that black folks in L.A, really don't have to do anything, FOR MANY OF YOUR KIND, ESPECIALLY RACIST SURS, TO fu-- WITH THEM, or at the very least-MURDER THEM!

Why? BECAUSE IN THE END, WITHIN THE MINDS OF MANY RACIST SURS AND THEIR SYMPATHIZERS, BEING BLACK IS ENOUGH TO GET POPPED!

You talk about half truths being put forth, and not the total truth, well-THAT'S SOME REAL TRUTH FOR YOUR ASS RIGHT THERE: a truth that wasn't being totally put out there before, because of the lies and propaganda by many of your people, including the media, who declared black folks as the primary aggressors, whereas the mexican community were the poor hapless victims, then and now, of black tyranny.

Shit ain't equal between black and mexican racism towards one another.

You know that black folks are quicker to want to make overtures towards your people, than your people are towards black folks. You know that many of your people view black folks who talk about black and brown unity, as being the type of black folks who only want unity with mexicans/chicanos, because they hate themselves, and are trying to absorb themselves within the latino milieu, and so forth, in regards to piggybacking off of the benefits that latinos may receive because because of their ascendency within the population in recent years.

This is how many of your people feel about black folks who talk any of that oneness or racial unity stuff, and you know this.

Truth be told, many of your people don't want any type of working relationship or unity with black folks as a whole, and you know what? THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!! Just don't accuse black folks of being racist, when we totally begin to take upon that mindset-a mindset we really never had in the beginning.

(If there is any silver lining in all of this, it lies in the fact that racist mexicans/chicanos/latinos, are forcing black folks to see the reality that they really have no allies, from other races, and that in the end, all they really have, besides God-IS EACH OTHER!)

Naw man, I can go and on, with this one, but to accuse me of only putting forths half truths, that are not totally holistic of the present reality-IS A HALF TRUTH, AND YOU'RE NOT BEING TOTALLY REAL YOURSELF!

Here we are, black folks, a minority in L.A. in regards to our numbers, and gang participation, to where mexican gang membership quadruples that of black gang membership, by leaps and bounds, and we still give eses a run for their money; and are viewed as such threats to where racist surs don't feel that taking out black gang members is substantial enough-THEY HAVE TO TAKE OUT THE WHOLE BLACK POPULATION IN GENERAL.

Again, black gangs were never perfect, and still aren't perfect, but they never had as an agenda, despite their imperfections, from the higher ups, TO COMMIT GENOCIDE UPON ANOTHER "darker" RACE OF PEOPLE! But guess what, those within your ranks-HAVE DEFINITELY CALLED FOR THAT AGAINST BLACK FOLKS!

I aint got all day to reply but here you go.

If there were an award for finding different ways to say the SAME thing, you could probably win it. I'll give you THAT much.

You are NOT being 100% "REAL" because you only bring up the negativity amongst black and brown. You got to use the equilibrium. If you're just using your limited experience to make broad generalizations about an entire ethnicity, then by definition that's "racism." There is plenty of racism and genocide that has gone down in Africa and so we know that blacks are just as capable of racism as anybody else. You don't get a pass for that--it aint cool and that's the bottom line. After your statements about past transgressions between brown and black, I KNOW you aren't trying to justify your anti white statements. lol If you ask me, your derogatory statements against whites would also qualify as racism. Am I not keeping it REAL?

A few of us Mexicans have already told you how it is. What reason would we have to lie? If all Mexicans were on some conspiracy type isht then I would tell you straight out.

I'll say it loud and clear, THERE ARE RACIST PEOPLE IN EVERY RACE! That's all there is to it.