Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
Bill Cosby Hatin On 2Pac
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Noone will ever know exactly what affect pacs music had on the community. That one dude did kill a cop and said that one of pacs song inspired him to do that. but who knows the details of the case. maybe the cop was a racist n he had it comin. but im sure his music got ppl to view life from a different angle and see hope.. and the implications that has on ones life might be greater than you think. and it inspired lotta ppl to keep strivin forward despite difficult situations, specially females, who wouldve otherwise givin up n maybe even commit suicide but found comfort through his lyrics.
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Hell wrote:Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
I think that Tupac did shit to impress whoever he was around at the time. I saw him do an interview with Ed Gordon and he sound like one of the most intelligent brothers you ever want to see. Later, you catch him with Suge and he talking 'about "smashin' on niggas" he don't even know just because he tryin' to impress Suge.
Somebody like that is unstable, 'cause they're to busy tryin' to fit in that they can't be themselves. Who knows who the real Tupac was. He sure as hell was quotin' Shakespeare and reading poetry when he was around Suge, that's when he went into his gangsta mode. But when he was around respectable Black journalists, he wanted to be the young revolutionary who wanted to uplift the people. Ain't nobody got time to try to figure that shit out. Do you wanna be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hide today?
Just be real. Pac was either confused, phony or both. The shit might not have been his fault.
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fmyDick in your mouth wrote:he was conflicted
Definitely. I believe that in order to affect change, you have to be consistent if nothing else. You can't be sayin' one thing and doing something else. Which is EXACTLY the same reason Cosby's influence will be limited. He might be speaking truth, but a lot of people will tune him out just 'cause its HIM saying it.
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what about huey smokin dope, and martin being adulterous even though he was a christian. real people are conflicted...some faults dont take away from a person's primary wants, and goals.creativemind wrote:Hell wrote:Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
I think that Tupac did shit to impress whoever he was around at the time. I saw him do an interview with Ed Gordon and he sound like one of the most intelligent brothers you ever want to see. Later, you catch him with Suge and he talking 'about "smashin' on niggas" he don't even know just because he tryin' to impress Suge.
Somebody like that is unstable, 'cause they're to busy tryin' to fit in that they can't be themselves. Who knows who the real Tupac was. He sure as hell was quotin' Shakespeare and reading poetry when he was around Suge, that's when he went into his gangsta mode. But when he was around respectable Black journalists, he wanted to be the young revolutionary who wanted to uplift the people. Ain't nobody got time to try to figure that shit out. Do you wanna be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hide today?
Just be real. Pac was either confused, phony or both. The shit might not have been his fault.
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I cant fault/judge another man for his conflicts, sins or anything else. If he has a message and I agree with it then I can tie it in with my philosophy. We all have our own minds and make our own choices...then we have everyone else with their different opinions of what our choices mean. So for me, Cosby had a good point and used Pac as an image to make that point stronger. I dont agree with how he did it, but its his point thats my focus.
All I can say is expand your minds and live your American dream.
All I can say is expand your minds and live your American dream.
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I hear you. I'm not saying a person can't have faults. We ALL have things that qualify is us imperfect. But Huey wasn't smokin' dope while giving speeches. Martin was pinchin' the asses of women walkin' past in the choir. A lot of Tupac shit is on tape for the world to see.perongregory wrote:what about huey smokin dope, and martin being adulterous even though he was a christian. real people are conflicted...some faults dont take away from a person's primary wants, and goals.creativemind wrote:Hell wrote:Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
I think that Tupac did shit to impress whoever he was around at the time. I saw him do an interview with Ed Gordon and he sound like one of the most intelligent brothers you ever want to see. Later, you catch him with Suge and he talking 'about "smashin' on niggas" he don't even know just because he tryin' to impress Suge.
Somebody like that is unstable, 'cause they're to busy tryin' to fit in that they can't be themselves. Who knows who the real Tupac was. He sure as hell was quotin' Shakespeare and reading poetry when he was around Suge, that's when he went into his gangsta mode. But when he was around respectable Black journalists, he wanted to be the young revolutionary who wanted to uplift the people. Ain't nobody got time to try to figure that shit out. Do you wanna be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hide today?
Just be real. Pac was either confused, phony or both. The shit might not have been his fault.
How can you talk about respectin' ladies when you claimin' you bang Biggie wife? How can you speak on peace, and say you gon' fuck 'So and So' up next time you see 'em? How you talk about leadin' people, and you hangin' out the window spitting at reporters?
Perception is reality in some instances. That can't work if you're puttin' mixed messages out.
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I'm not sayin' Pac was a bad brother at all. I was feelin' his music just like the next person. The thing about it was, he was still evolving, but unfortunately he was evolving in the public eye, which left him open for scrutiny. You could see he had a good heart, but until he was capable of being himself (whoever that was) regardless of who he was hanging out with Suge Knight or Rosa Parks, he was gon' leave his intentions open for speculation.LcBwC wrote:^^^ I have to agree with you there. All valid questions that make you question alot. Goes back to actions speaking louder than words.
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He was still evolving, as all of us are(hopefully we all are). Unfortunately,creativemind wrote:I'm not sayin' Pac was a bad brother at all. I was feelin' his music just like the next person. The thing about it was, he was still evolving, but unfortunately he was evolving in the public eye, which left him open for scrutiny. You could see he had a good heart, but until he was capable of being himself (whoever that was) regardless of who he was hanging out with Suge Knight or Rosa Parks, he was gon' leave his intentions open for speculation.LcBwC wrote:^^^ I have to agree with you there. All valid questions that make you question alot. Goes back to actions speaking louder than words.
we only got to see a supremely talented and gifted yet painfully conflicted
twenty-five year old. As thoughtful, critical thinking brothers, how shall we remember him and what do we tell our progeny about him as his "legacy" will surely endure far as history goes??
Good flow....but yeah, he was a man wearing too many hats, thats well put and true - trying too hard to be too many things at one time - shadow and light you could say. Thats not putting pac down, as I was a big fan back in the day, just to say that the yout was many things - including very intelligent, confused, sorrowful, poetic, soulful, thoughtless, iconic, cartoonish.....just because a man makes a big success doesn't mean they can fit into a neat pigeon-hole - pac wasn't a man you could pin down easily.
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The difference between Pac and some of these other leaders is Pac was an artist first and foremost. He knew that his money making lied in his abililty to entertain people. He was an admitted walking contradiction. He knew he'd say one thing and do another. It's how he made his money.creativemind wrote:I'm not sayin' Pac was a bad brother at all. I was feelin' his music just like the next person. The thing about it was, he was still evolving, but unfortunately he was evolving in the public eye, which left him open for scrutiny. You could see he had a good heart, but until he was capable of being himself (whoever that was) regardless of who he was hanging out with Suge Knight or Rosa Parks, he was gon' leave his intentions open for speculation.LcBwC wrote:^^^ I have to agree with you there. All valid questions that make you question alot. Goes back to actions speaking louder than words.
He was a work in progress, like so many artists. I don't think you can take anything he said too literal regardless of his message. He had the abililty and the resources to reach millions of people, but it was on an entertainment level. He never had the chance to grow old and focus his energy on something positive, and even if he had the chance, would he have taken it? Who knows. But I do understand what Bill Cosby is saying, let's not put too much faith into these entertainers and follow their orders when they aren't following themselves. You also have to understand that Bill was/is an entertainer himself, and he too is far from perfect. Then again sometimes it's just listening to the message itself and not necessarily scrutinizing the messanger in which case I think you can listen to both Bill Cosby and Tupac.
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creativemind wrote:I hear you. I'm not saying a person can't have faults. We ALL have things that qualify is us imperfect. But Huey wasn't smokin' dope while giving speeches. Martin was pinchin' the asses of women walkin' past in the choir. A lot of Tupac shit is on tape for the world to see.perongregory wrote:what about huey smokin dope, and martin being adulterous even though he was a christian. real people are conflicted...some faults dont take away from a person's primary wants, and goals.creativemind wrote:Hell wrote:Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
I think that Tupac did shit to impress whoever he was around at the time. I saw him do an interview with Ed Gordon and he sound like one of the most intelligent brothers you ever want to see. Later, you catch him with Suge and he talking 'about "smashin' on niggas" he don't even know just because he tryin' to impress Suge.
Somebody like that is unstable, 'cause they're to busy tryin' to fit in that they can't be themselves. Who knows who the real Tupac was. He sure as hell was quotin' Shakespeare and reading poetry when he was around Suge, that's when he went into his gangsta mode. But when he was around respectable Black journalists, he wanted to be the young revolutionary who wanted to uplift the people. Ain't nobody got time to try to figure that shit out. Do you wanna be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hide today?
Just be real. Pac was either confused, phony or both. The shit might not have been his fault.
How can you talk about respectin' ladies when you claimin' you bang Biggie wife? How can you speak on peace, and say you gon' fu-- 'So and So' up next time you see 'em? How you talk about leadin' people, and you hangin' out the window spitting at reporters?
Perception is reality in some instances. That can't work if you're puttin' mixed messages out.
bangin someones wife dont mean your disrespecting the lady.
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I totally agree with that. His mom made sure that he was aware of the struggle. Evidently he was well read, and had a lot more going on for himself than the average guy in the street. But Pac reminds me of those kids in school who get teased because they get good grades, so the purposely fuck up so they fit in more. He woulda look like a fool talkin' peace, while Suge was busy tryin' to instigate an East Coast-West Coast war. So he felt like in order to be considered a rider, he had to be on the front like kickin' up dust and being the first to start the ruckus. That shit cost him his life.EmperorPenguin wrote:The difference between Pac and some of these other leaders is Pac was an artist first and foremost. He knew that his money making lied in his abililty to entertain people. He was an admitted walking contradiction. He knew he'd say one thing and do another. It's how he made his money.creativemind wrote:I'm not sayin' Pac was a bad brother at all. I was feelin' his music just like the next person. The thing about it was, he was still evolving, but unfortunately he was evolving in the public eye, which left him open for scrutiny. You could see he had a good heart, but until he was capable of being himself (whoever that was) regardless of who he was hanging out with Suge Knight or Rosa Parks, he was gon' leave his intentions open for speculation.LcBwC wrote:^^^ I have to agree with you there. All valid questions that make you question alot. Goes back to actions speaking louder than words.
He was a work in progress, like so many artists. I don't think you can take anything he said too literal regardless of his message. He had the abililty and the resources to reach millions of people, but it was on an entertainment level. He never had the chance to grow old and focus his energy on something positive, and even if he had the chance, would he have taken it? Who knows. But I do understand what Bill Cosby is saying, let's not put too much faith into these entertainers and follow their orders when they aren't following themselves. You also have to understand that Bill was/is an entertainer himself, and he too is far from perfect. Then again sometimes it's just listening to the message itself and not necessarily scrutinizing the messanger in which case I think you can listen to both Bill Cosby and Tupac.
Who knows how he would have evolved if he didn't feel that peer pressure. We all go through that wild streak, but most of us have a chance to grow out of it. Unfortunately he didn't.
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Bangin' somebody's wife might get you killed for one. But aside from that, they woman might be with' it, but I can guarantee you, she don't want you on MTV tellin' the world.myDick in your mouth wrote:creativemind wrote:I hear you. I'm not saying a person can't have faults. We ALL have things that qualify is us imperfect. But Huey wasn't smokin' dope while giving speeches. Martin was pinchin' the asses of women walkin' past in the choir. A lot of Tupac shit is on tape for the world to see.perongregory wrote:what about huey smokin dope, and martin being adulterous even though he was a christian. real people are conflicted...some faults dont take away from a person's primary wants, and goals.creativemind wrote:Hell wrote:Nobody made a difference in their community cause no black brotha will do that off top like that,but i don't know nobody who did that also pac did represent our race very well.creativemind wrote:I'm waiting for you to give an example of how hustlin' benefits black people as a whole. That's what this started off bring about, right?Hell wrote:^ Well his message suck.
I'm not talking about people who made money. We all know dudes who made money in the streets. Show me somebody who made money, made a difference in the community, stayed out of jail, and the Feds ain't on their ass.
I think that Tupac did shit to impress whoever he was around at the time. I saw him do an interview with Ed Gordon and he sound like one of the most intelligent brothers you ever want to see. Later, you catch him with Suge and he talking 'about "smashin' on niggas" he don't even know just because he tryin' to impress Suge.
Somebody like that is unstable, 'cause they're to busy tryin' to fit in that they can't be themselves. Who knows who the real Tupac was. He sure as hell was quotin' Shakespeare and reading poetry when he was around Suge, that's when he went into his gangsta mode. But when he was around respectable Black journalists, he wanted to be the young revolutionary who wanted to uplift the people. Ain't nobody got time to try to figure that shit out. Do you wanna be Dr. Jekyl or Mr. Hide today?
Just be real. Pac was either confused, phony or both. The shit might not have been his fault.
How can you talk about respectin' ladies when you claimin' you bang Biggie wife? How can you speak on peace, and say you gon' fu-- 'So and So' up next time you see 'em? How you talk about leadin' people, and you hangin' out the window spitting at reporters?
Perception is reality in some instances. That can't work if you're puttin' mixed messages out.
bangin someones wife dont mean your disrespecting the lady.
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Now lets not get carried away. Granted people, especially younger one, knew who Pac was. He was in the limelight. But I don't think people looked at him as no kind of leader or nothing. They just liked his music. He shared his ideas in interviews, but I don't even think he put himselk out there as a leader.myDick in your mouth wrote:Pac was G'd up. and he also put out positivity. he had the respect of all different types of people from 50 yr old white women to niggaz in the pen and on the street. More than Bill Cosby will ever have. Only a certain group of ppl give a fu-- bout what bill cosby has to say. Thats why hes hatin.
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That's what I find so unforunate. He was obviously well educated. He knew what he was saying when he said it. There's numerous stories of how he acted and the things he said outside of Deathrow Records and that East/West thing. He seemed eager to teach the younger generation and try to set things right, but he also knew who signed his paycheck and how to make money and he obviously choose to make money over educating but through his mother a lot of those messages are getting out now. Better late then never I guess.creativemind wrote:I totally agree with that. His mom made sure that he was aware of the struggle. Evidently he was well read, and had a lot more going on for himself than the average guy in the street. But Pac reminds me of those kids in school who get teased because they get good grades, so the purposely fu-- up so they fit in more. He woulda look like a fool talkin' peace, while Suge was busy tryin' to instigate an East Coast-West Coast war. So he felt like in order to be considered a rider, he had to be on the front like kickin' up dust and being the first to start the ruckus. That shit cost him his life.EmperorPenguin wrote:The difference between Pac and some of these other leaders is Pac was an artist first and foremost. He knew that his money making lied in his abililty to entertain people. He was an admitted walking contradiction. He knew he'd say one thing and do another. It's how he made his money.creativemind wrote:I'm not sayin' Pac was a bad brother at all. I was feelin' his music just like the next person. The thing about it was, he was still evolving, but unfortunately he was evolving in the public eye, which left him open for scrutiny. You could see he had a good heart, but until he was capable of being himself (whoever that was) regardless of who he was hanging out with Suge Knight or Rosa Parks, he was gon' leave his intentions open for speculation.LcBwC wrote:^^^ I have to agree with you there. All valid questions that make you question alot. Goes back to actions speaking louder than words.
He was a work in progress, like so many artists. I don't think you can take anything he said too literal regardless of his message. He had the abililty and the resources to reach millions of people, but it was on an entertainment level. He never had the chance to grow old and focus his energy on something positive, and even if he had the chance, would he have taken it? Who knows. But I do understand what Bill Cosby is saying, let's not put too much faith into these entertainers and follow their orders when they aren't following themselves. You also have to understand that Bill was/is an entertainer himself, and he too is far from perfect. Then again sometimes it's just listening to the message itself and not necessarily scrutinizing the messanger in which case I think you can listen to both Bill Cosby and Tupac.
Who knows how he would have evolved if he didn't feel that peer pressure. We all go through that wild streak, but most of us have a chance to grow out of it. Unfortunately he didn't.
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As far as the entertainment industry goes, pac definetly carried the weight as a leader harder than any other black person.creativemind wrote:Now lets not get carried away. Granted people, especially younger one, knew who Pac was. He was in the limelight. But I don't think people looked at him as no kind of leader or nothing. They just liked his music. He shared his ideas in interviews, but I don't even think he put himselk out there as a leader.myDick in your mouth wrote:Pac was G'd up. and he also put out positivity. he had the respect of all different types of people from 50 yr old white women to niggaz in the pen and on the street. More than Bill Cosby will ever have. Only a certain group of ppl give a fu-- bout what bill cosby has to say. Thats why hes hatin.
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Again, Pac was a rapper. He was JUST getting into movies. Cosby been around since the 60's. Comedy, movies, TV, producing, directing.myDick in your mouth wrote:As far as the entertainment industry goes, pac definetly carried the weight as a leader harder than any other black person.creativemind wrote:Now lets not get carried away. Granted people, especially younger one, knew who Pac was. He was in the limelight. But I don't think people looked at him as no kind of leader or nothing. They just liked his music. He shared his ideas in interviews, but I don't even think he put himselk out there as a leader.myDick in your mouth wrote:Pac was G'd up. and he also put out positivity. he had the respect of all different types of people from 50 yr old white women to niggaz in the pen and on the street. More than Bill Cosby will ever have. Only a certain group of ppl give a fu-- bout what bill cosby has to say. Thats why hes hatin.
Pac was in the public eye at the time of his death more just because it was his time. But trust me, in the entertainment industry as a whole, you can even speak Tupac's name in the same breath as Bill Cosby. Cosby make more in his sleep than Tupac made his entire career. He is what you call a Media mogul. It wasn't just about his career, he made OTHER PEOPLE'S careers possible. That's power and influence.
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We talkin bout the struggles of the black community. Im talkin bout the streets. Anyone can fuckin sit there and talk about this dangerous cycle that we live in, the harm we cause our own, the lack of opportunity out there for the lower class, and have regular black ppl like yea thats wasup niggaz speakin truth. no shit. But to be able to reach the niggaz on the streets muhfuckers sellin drugs robbin ppl killin each other n shit, gain their respect, show a better route, thats sayin something.creativemind wrote:Again, Pac was a rapper. He was JUST getting into movies. Cosby been around since the 60's. Comedy, movies, TV, producing, directing.myDick in your mouth wrote:As far as the entertainment industry goes, pac definetly carried the weight as a leader harder than any other black person.creativemind wrote:Now lets not get carried away. Granted people, especially younger one, knew who Pac was. He was in the limelight. But I don't think people looked at him as no kind of leader or nothing. They just liked his music. He shared his ideas in interviews, but I don't even think he put himselk out there as a leader.myDick in your mouth wrote:Pac was G'd up. and he also put out positivity. he had the respect of all different types of people from 50 yr old white women to niggaz in the pen and on the street. More than Bill Cosby will ever have. Only a certain group of ppl give a fu-- bout what bill cosby has to say. Thats why hes hatin.
Pac was in the public eye at the time of his death more just because it was his time. But trust me, in the entertainment industry as a whole, you can even speak Tupac's name in the same breath as Bill Cosby. Cosby make more in his sleep than Tupac made his entire career. He is what you call a Media mogul. It wasn't just about his career, he made OTHER PEOPLE'S careers possible. That's power and influence.
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Who do you know what changed on account of what Tupac was sayin'???myDick in your mouth wrote:We talkin bout the struggles of the black community. Im talkin bout the streets. Anyone can fuckin sit there and talk about this dangerous cycle that we live in, the harm we cause our own, the lack of opportunity out there for the lower class, and have regular black ppl like yea thats wasup niggaz speakin truth. no shit. But to be able to reach the niggaz on the streets muhfuckers sellin drugs robbin ppl killin each other n shit, gain their respect, show a better route, thats sayin something.creativemind wrote:Again, Pac was a rapper. He was JUST getting into movies. Cosby been around since the 60's. Comedy, movies, TV, producing, directing.myDick in your mouth wrote:As far as the entertainment industry goes, pac definetly carried the weight as a leader harder than any other black person.creativemind wrote:Now lets not get carried away. Granted people, especially younger one, knew who Pac was. He was in the limelight. But I don't think people looked at him as no kind of leader or nothing. They just liked his music. He shared his ideas in interviews, but I don't even think he put himselk out there as a leader.myDick in your mouth wrote:Pac was G'd up. and he also put out positivity. he had the respect of all different types of people from 50 yr old white women to niggaz in the pen and on the street. More than Bill Cosby will ever have. Only a certain group of ppl give a fu-- bout what bill cosby has to say. Thats why hes hatin.
Pac was in the public eye at the time of his death more just because it was his time. But trust me, in the entertainment industry as a whole, you can even speak Tupac's name in the same breath as Bill Cosby. Cosby make more in his sleep than Tupac made his entire career. He is what you call a Media mogul. It wasn't just about his career, he made OTHER PEOPLE'S careers possible. That's power and influence.
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