England
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Discuss anything about Western European street gangs and organized crime.
Discuss anything about Western European street gangs and organized crime.
Re: England
im from london. there arent proper turf gangs here apart from the drug gangs like the yardies or colombians or turks. there are a couple of gangs in in the main cities here like in south london but they sre nothing compared to gangs in LA
Re: England
By far the worst gang problems in England can be found in Manchester. London, Nottingham and Birmingham also have big problems, although they are nowhere near the magnitude of LA or Chicago’s problems. I will go through what I know about the gangs in London.
By far the worst area in London for gang-style violence is in the Clapton district of northeast London. Most of it is between Jamaican drug gangs, and occasionally Turkish and Albanian gangs.
Harlesden, Stone-bridge and Willsden in Northwest London also have bad reputations.
In the white working class suburbs in the Eastside, kids and adults alike from different estates have rivalries with other estates (a housing estate is a housing project). By far the biggest pointless rivalry is in the district of Barking, between Harts Lane Estate and the notorious Gascoigne (aka Gazza) estate.
Also there are many predominantly southern asian streetgangs in East London. The biggest and most famous are the Brick Lane Massif and the Forrest Gate Posse.
The biggest gang in southeast London is the 150-strong predominantly black Ghetto Crew. It’s main turf is in the Brockly, Deptford and Crofton districts of Lewisham, London. Their biggest rivalry is with the ‘Woolly Boyz’, a Somali gang in Woolwich.
The most well-publicized rivalry in south London is between Birxton and Peckham. As with most rivalries, no one knows seems to know when or where it began.
It began in the late 50s when the once wealthy area of Brixton, that had suffered heavy bombing in WW2 began to see new housing estates being built. Many rich people moved out and let out their huge houses and all the huge terraced houses in Brixton became multi-occupied, sometimes with as many as 5 families living in each house. With all the poverty, gang recruitment was inevitable. Most of the kids from Brixton went to Kingsdale School, in the relatively posh area of Sydenham, which never took any of the local wealthy population, but instead took in kids from much poorer areas, including Peckham. Kingslae school had an extremily bad reputation, especially since it’s location was in such a wealthy area. The Brixton boys and Peckham boys used to fight every day, and there were countless campaighns by local residents to shut the school dwn, especially since the gangs had started picking on the kids from the local private schools.
Kingsdale school recently underwent a huge regeneration scheme, and because of this the problem is dying away.
The main gangs in Peckham are:
Firehouse Crew: A mostly black and mixed race gang, mostly made up of young men aged 16-25
Peckham Boy Gangstaz: A multiracial gang made up of young men over 18.
Younger Peckham Boyz: Made up of kids who will one day graduate to PBG. Aged 14-18
Tiny Peckham Boyz: Made up of kids aged under 14.
Acorn Boyz: All black gang from Acorn Eastate on Queens Road. Probably the most hated of all the gangs.
Moneymakaz: Mostly mixed race gang from Sumner Estate. Breakoff from FHC (firehouse Crew)
Nunhead NF: Racist white gang from Nunhead, an area directly to the south of Peckham. Not very many members. Alligned with the Eltham NF and Bermondsy Boyz, who are other white gangs.Main colour is blue, because of Millwall football club.
By far the worst area in London for gang-style violence is in the Clapton district of northeast London. Most of it is between Jamaican drug gangs, and occasionally Turkish and Albanian gangs.
Harlesden, Stone-bridge and Willsden in Northwest London also have bad reputations.
In the white working class suburbs in the Eastside, kids and adults alike from different estates have rivalries with other estates (a housing estate is a housing project). By far the biggest pointless rivalry is in the district of Barking, between Harts Lane Estate and the notorious Gascoigne (aka Gazza) estate.
Also there are many predominantly southern asian streetgangs in East London. The biggest and most famous are the Brick Lane Massif and the Forrest Gate Posse.
The biggest gang in southeast London is the 150-strong predominantly black Ghetto Crew. It’s main turf is in the Brockly, Deptford and Crofton districts of Lewisham, London. Their biggest rivalry is with the ‘Woolly Boyz’, a Somali gang in Woolwich.
The most well-publicized rivalry in south London is between Birxton and Peckham. As with most rivalries, no one knows seems to know when or where it began.
It began in the late 50s when the once wealthy area of Brixton, that had suffered heavy bombing in WW2 began to see new housing estates being built. Many rich people moved out and let out their huge houses and all the huge terraced houses in Brixton became multi-occupied, sometimes with as many as 5 families living in each house. With all the poverty, gang recruitment was inevitable. Most of the kids from Brixton went to Kingsdale School, in the relatively posh area of Sydenham, which never took any of the local wealthy population, but instead took in kids from much poorer areas, including Peckham. Kingslae school had an extremily bad reputation, especially since it’s location was in such a wealthy area. The Brixton boys and Peckham boys used to fight every day, and there were countless campaighns by local residents to shut the school dwn, especially since the gangs had started picking on the kids from the local private schools.
Kingsdale school recently underwent a huge regeneration scheme, and because of this the problem is dying away.
The main gangs in Peckham are:
Firehouse Crew: A mostly black and mixed race gang, mostly made up of young men aged 16-25
Peckham Boy Gangstaz: A multiracial gang made up of young men over 18.
Younger Peckham Boyz: Made up of kids who will one day graduate to PBG. Aged 14-18
Tiny Peckham Boyz: Made up of kids aged under 14.
Acorn Boyz: All black gang from Acorn Eastate on Queens Road. Probably the most hated of all the gangs.
Moneymakaz: Mostly mixed race gang from Sumner Estate. Breakoff from FHC (firehouse Crew)
Nunhead NF: Racist white gang from Nunhead, an area directly to the south of Peckham. Not very many members. Alligned with the Eltham NF and Bermondsy Boyz, who are other white gangs.Main colour is blue, because of Millwall football club.
Another Peckham gang.
Ooops, I missed one.
Ruff Rydaz: Mostly black gang made up of young men mostly 18-25 who ride moterbikes instead of Mopeds or BMXs and are instantly regognizable because they all wear Avirex leather jackets all year round. Theyre dress style seems to be more US-influenced than anyone elses, and they listen to rap (US and UK) rather than garage or ragga.
Ruff Rydaz: Mostly black gang made up of young men mostly 18-25 who ride moterbikes instead of Mopeds or BMXs and are instantly regognizable because they all wear Avirex leather jackets all year round. Theyre dress style seems to be more US-influenced than anyone elses, and they listen to rap (US and UK) rather than garage or ragga.
Ethnic rivalry linked to copycat crip/bloods in East London?
Recently there has been a copycat crip/blood thing going on in Forest Gate, east london.
The local south-asian gang have traditionally worn red bandannas because that was one of the fashion accecories of the big 'bhangra-muffin' trend in the early 90s. They also have started to ware tight black jeans. These are both things that the 'bloods' gang of LA do.
Recently an all-balck petty streetgang around Earlham Grove in Forest Gate have started to ware blue and pick on the local south asian population. Earlham Grove is a road with huge houses on it. On the western end of it, most of the houses are owned by wealthy families. Even Tony Banks, the local MP has a house there. The other end is different. Most of the houses are multi-occupied with up to 4 families in one house. It is well-known as a road that you would not choose to walk down.
In Forest Gate School, ethnic tentions have been surprisingly high recently. According to a friend I have there, if a south-asian kid was to have a fight with a non-south asian, the whole south asian population of the school will back up the south asian kid and all the non-south asian kids, weather white, black, phillipino or turkish or albanian or whatever, will fight alongside the non-south asian.
In several poor towns in the north of England recently, there have been huge fueds between white and south asian inhabitants. Riots even broke out in Oldham and Bradford. My fear is that it will spread down here, too.
The local south-asian gang have traditionally worn red bandannas because that was one of the fashion accecories of the big 'bhangra-muffin' trend in the early 90s. They also have started to ware tight black jeans. These are both things that the 'bloods' gang of LA do.
Recently an all-balck petty streetgang around Earlham Grove in Forest Gate have started to ware blue and pick on the local south asian population. Earlham Grove is a road with huge houses on it. On the western end of it, most of the houses are owned by wealthy families. Even Tony Banks, the local MP has a house there. The other end is different. Most of the houses are multi-occupied with up to 4 families in one house. It is well-known as a road that you would not choose to walk down.
In Forest Gate School, ethnic tentions have been surprisingly high recently. According to a friend I have there, if a south-asian kid was to have a fight with a non-south asian, the whole south asian population of the school will back up the south asian kid and all the non-south asian kids, weather white, black, phillipino or turkish or albanian or whatever, will fight alongside the non-south asian.
In several poor towns in the north of England recently, there have been huge fueds between white and south asian inhabitants. Riots even broke out in Oldham and Bradford. My fear is that it will spread down here, too.
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Silencioso
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Re: England
Are gangs in London mostly minority groups? Because in Glasgow they're mostly local working class Scottish and Irish people. Glasgow gangs don't seem very influenced by American gang culture.
It's interesting that South Asians are so involved with gang activity in London because in the US they're among the least involved in gang activity of any ethnic group.
It's interesting that South Asians are so involved with gang activity in London because in the US they're among the least involved in gang activity of any ethnic group.
Re: Ethnic rivalry linked to copycat crip/bloods in East Lon
Snowman wrote: In several poor towns in the north of England recently, there have been huge fueds between white and south asian inhabitants. Riots even broke out in Oldham and Bradford. My fear is that it will spread down here, too.
Yeah I know what you mean
I've been down there, the racial divides pretty bad.
Burnley, Oldham and Bradford have all had race riots.
I don't mean to sound one sided here but usually it's white people who spark it leaving them to retaliate.
Sometimes I think the white people living there want a reaction...little things like ''paki'' you know.. can be extremely offensive...which breaks the two sides into fights...e.t.c..
Because of lack of respect I believe it's leading to more and more southern asian people being resentful towards white people
Re: England
thats bad that theres racial divisions in london, coz in liverpool everyones just equal, theres no 'ur a paki' 'ur a....' woteva, there isnt really any minorities or anything.....
howeva........i live near liverpool, i hate my town seriously, theres loadsa rivallry between the different housin estates n that, u kno whoz the hardest n shit......takes the piss really
howeva........i live near liverpool, i hate my town seriously, theres loadsa rivallry between the different housin estates n that, u kno whoz the hardest n shit......takes the piss really
Re: England
There is very little racial tension in london. In almost all of the UK rap videos on Channel U there ae whites, blacks and everything, whereas in most american rap videos the only white folks are police or dumbasses.
Most of the gangs in Peckham are multiracial and becase peckham is agbout 70% black you can't really call blacks a minority!
The Brick Lane Massif and FGP (historically been known to be south asian gangs) have always had the odd white member or black member, and almost all the gangs in Manchester are also completely multiracial.
The reason why south asians are so litttle involved in gang activity in the states is because theres hardly any of them! In England, they are the biggest 'minority' group. On the social scale, they probably stand the same as latinos do in america.
There have recently been alot of Albanian Mafia gangsters in England, and quite alot of the albanian youth in the poorest inner city areas like Wood Green, Canning Town and Walwarth have started to form gangs which fight with black kids. To be quite blunt, the most racism the albanians recieved when they came to England was from the black youth, and becasue many of the albanian kids were orphans and had never seen a black person before they took all the raciam very seriously, and have started to form gangs and fight with both the hardline British Nationalist groups and any black kids who they think deserve it.
The only racial barrier in england probably only exists in the poorest towns in yorkshier and Lancashier, and is practically non existent in the big cities, as England has never had ghettos where there is ONLY blacks or ONLY whites.
The last big racial incidents in any big city in the south east happened in the early 90s in the aftermath of the murder of Steven lawrence, a black student, by a racist gang in Eltham, a mixed income predominantly white suburban area of south London, although many people would argue that reprocussions are still occuring...
Most of the gangs in Peckham are multiracial and becase peckham is agbout 70% black you can't really call blacks a minority!
The Brick Lane Massif and FGP (historically been known to be south asian gangs) have always had the odd white member or black member, and almost all the gangs in Manchester are also completely multiracial.
The reason why south asians are so litttle involved in gang activity in the states is because theres hardly any of them! In England, they are the biggest 'minority' group. On the social scale, they probably stand the same as latinos do in america.
There have recently been alot of Albanian Mafia gangsters in England, and quite alot of the albanian youth in the poorest inner city areas like Wood Green, Canning Town and Walwarth have started to form gangs which fight with black kids. To be quite blunt, the most racism the albanians recieved when they came to England was from the black youth, and becasue many of the albanian kids were orphans and had never seen a black person before they took all the raciam very seriously, and have started to form gangs and fight with both the hardline British Nationalist groups and any black kids who they think deserve it.
The only racial barrier in england probably only exists in the poorest towns in yorkshier and Lancashier, and is practically non existent in the big cities, as England has never had ghettos where there is ONLY blacks or ONLY whites.
The last big racial incidents in any big city in the south east happened in the early 90s in the aftermath of the murder of Steven lawrence, a black student, by a racist gang in Eltham, a mixed income predominantly white suburban area of south London, although many people would argue that reprocussions are still occuring...
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bgcasper
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Re: England
england is the mother land of punks and skinhead like l.a for crips and bloods , do england still have skinhead gangs like in the past , i have heard of skrewdriver a nazi band do they represent a hood like that other band named last resort and was hangin in an particular hood i heard about back in the days the foot ball second division clubs were all skinhead infested and clubs like west ham united was really skinhead and they use to call their movement ultar violence in refence of a moovie called mechanik orange who portrayed a click of young white boys violent called the clockworks drinking moloko a cocktail of lsd before fights ... and what about mods and rockers they use to have big fights between them lololol and they use to ride on those old sschool vespa and shiyt ...i think all those thing are made in england and all those marcc ass bustaz repin' english hoods in los angeles are just bustaz lololol i mean we have our local shyt why trying to copycat british hoods lol....
Re: England
Nah bgCasper that whole mod/rocker/teddyboy thing is LONG GONE!
Contrary to popular belief the origional skinheads were not racist. The skinhead fashion, ie tight jeans, boots, shirts and shaved heads etc. was brought to England by Jamaican people and was popular amongst white and black youths in the poorest multicultural areas of East London in areas like West Ham, Bow and Barking. Indeed, UK reggae star Max Romeo gave thanks to skinheads in a recent interview with him for sticking up for him when he was gerring attacked by the racists of Guilford, where he grew up. One reggea group even made a song called 'skinhead moonstomp' and is on the GTA:UK game soundtrack.
Eventually the fashion became hugely popular with poor white people all over london and naturally some of the people were racists. When others moved over to other fashions in the early 70s the more racist people kept the style. Since then (except for a brief period in the early 80s) the only people to ware traditional skinhead gear are either racists or gays.
The whole football (soccer) hooligan culture is another story.
In Europe, we all take sports much more seriously than you lot do in america. In Italy, football is very much a political thing as well. Compared to some European countries, England's problem is almost non-existant, but there's still a problem...
The hooligans started out in the late 60s, and because of this wore skinhead gear.
A good film to watch about football hooligans in the hard to find british film 'the firm' which stars Gary Oldman.
The recent relegation of West Ham United (my team!) has signalled a huge rebirth in the 'terrace culture'. Contrary to popular belief, most hooligan gangs were not racist. One of the former leaders of West Ham's 'firm', the notorious ICF was a black man called Cass Pennant. His books can be found on Amazon.
Most of the football problems can be found in the lower divisions rather than the Premiership. The most teams with the most notoriouse hooligan gangs are:
Stoke City: Has a firm of about 50 and are known to be very proffessional and only fight with other hooligans. Known to be the most 'honarable'
West Ham: Gangs are the ICF (inter city firm) for away games and West Side Boyz for home games. Can always be picked out at games because they sing the club anthem 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' to the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tune rather than the traditional way. Leaders have been Bill Gardner and Cass Pennant.
Millwall: West Ham's archrival. Their hooligan gangs the Bushwackers and F-troop are extremily racist and agressive and are known to fight with innocent people more than other gangs. Former leader was Harry the Dog.
Cardiff: Gang is the Soul Crew. Unlike most other hooligan groups, the gang actually has alot to do with the running of the team and regulaly drink with the Chaiman, arab buissinessman Sam Hamman.
Burnley: Crew is the SS (suicide squad). Follow on with the town's reputation for being very racist.
Chelsea: gang is the headhunters. Also rivals with West Ham. many members are also members of C-18 (racist paramilitary organisation) or NF gangs. Often fight alongside Millwall gangs.
Interesting link: http://www.terracelinks.cjb.net/
Miochelldope you are SO F***ING WRONG!!!!
I would say that Brixton is about as multicultural and racially harmonious as you can get. It's probably only 50% black, and I have atleast 5 white mates from there, and they get on fine with the black guys. Brixton is becoming a gentrified area, and will soon be full of trendy's/yuppies etc.. Brixton has always been over egsagerated as a ghetto where theres all this crime.
One of the top boys in the Dirty Dozen Crew from Brixton was called Able, and he was white.
Maybe only in pikey little shitholes in the Lancashier or Yorkshier like Rotherham or Preston or Burnley would you actally get 'no-go' zones.
Iv'e lived in Peckham all my life and I'm white and I've had hardly any problems. England is not like America. It don't have a history of segregation or anything. Maybe a few estates in Leyton you wouldn't go in if your white, but not WHOLE AREAS like Brixton!
Contrary to popular belief the origional skinheads were not racist. The skinhead fashion, ie tight jeans, boots, shirts and shaved heads etc. was brought to England by Jamaican people and was popular amongst white and black youths in the poorest multicultural areas of East London in areas like West Ham, Bow and Barking. Indeed, UK reggae star Max Romeo gave thanks to skinheads in a recent interview with him for sticking up for him when he was gerring attacked by the racists of Guilford, where he grew up. One reggea group even made a song called 'skinhead moonstomp' and is on the GTA:UK game soundtrack.
Eventually the fashion became hugely popular with poor white people all over london and naturally some of the people were racists. When others moved over to other fashions in the early 70s the more racist people kept the style. Since then (except for a brief period in the early 80s) the only people to ware traditional skinhead gear are either racists or gays.
The whole football (soccer) hooligan culture is another story.
In Europe, we all take sports much more seriously than you lot do in america. In Italy, football is very much a political thing as well. Compared to some European countries, England's problem is almost non-existant, but there's still a problem...
The hooligans started out in the late 60s, and because of this wore skinhead gear.
A good film to watch about football hooligans in the hard to find british film 'the firm' which stars Gary Oldman.
The recent relegation of West Ham United (my team!) has signalled a huge rebirth in the 'terrace culture'. Contrary to popular belief, most hooligan gangs were not racist. One of the former leaders of West Ham's 'firm', the notorious ICF was a black man called Cass Pennant. His books can be found on Amazon.
Most of the football problems can be found in the lower divisions rather than the Premiership. The most teams with the most notoriouse hooligan gangs are:
Stoke City: Has a firm of about 50 and are known to be very proffessional and only fight with other hooligans. Known to be the most 'honarable'
West Ham: Gangs are the ICF (inter city firm) for away games and West Side Boyz for home games. Can always be picked out at games because they sing the club anthem 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' to the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang tune rather than the traditional way. Leaders have been Bill Gardner and Cass Pennant.
Millwall: West Ham's archrival. Their hooligan gangs the Bushwackers and F-troop are extremily racist and agressive and are known to fight with innocent people more than other gangs. Former leader was Harry the Dog.
Cardiff: Gang is the Soul Crew. Unlike most other hooligan groups, the gang actually has alot to do with the running of the team and regulaly drink with the Chaiman, arab buissinessman Sam Hamman.
Burnley: Crew is the SS (suicide squad). Follow on with the town's reputation for being very racist.
Chelsea: gang is the headhunters. Also rivals with West Ham. many members are also members of C-18 (racist paramilitary organisation) or NF gangs. Often fight alongside Millwall gangs.
Interesting link: http://www.terracelinks.cjb.net/
Miochelldope you are SO F***ING WRONG!!!!
I would say that Brixton is about as multicultural and racially harmonious as you can get. It's probably only 50% black, and I have atleast 5 white mates from there, and they get on fine with the black guys. Brixton is becoming a gentrified area, and will soon be full of trendy's/yuppies etc.. Brixton has always been over egsagerated as a ghetto where theres all this crime.
One of the top boys in the Dirty Dozen Crew from Brixton was called Able, and he was white.
Maybe only in pikey little shitholes in the Lancashier or Yorkshier like Rotherham or Preston or Burnley would you actally get 'no-go' zones.
Iv'e lived in Peckham all my life and I'm white and I've had hardly any problems. England is not like America. It don't have a history of segregation or anything. Maybe a few estates in Leyton you wouldn't go in if your white, but not WHOLE AREAS like Brixton!
Rock/rap stars who were involved in crime.
An old 1980s punk/oi! band called the Cockney Rejects were kids from Canning Town, a notoriously introverted poverty stricken and drug infested district of East London, home of the Hunt crime family.
They were at one stage football hooligans and made a track called 'West Side Boyz' which was almost banned because it glorified the whole hooligan image.
Skrewdriver were actually suburban middle class kids who took the image of poor white kids and formed a crap punk band.
Several UK rappers and Garage artists claim to be gangsters, but hardly any are.
Asher D. from So Solid crew was never a Peckham Boy. He wasn't even from Peckham. He's from Battersea and his mum had a house in Surry and sent him to Stage School. He's like Chris Rock from CB4.
Megaman and Skat D. on the other hand WERE peckham boyz. Megaman wrote most of his lyrics while he was in Feltham Young Offenders Institution and is still a well known G in Peckham.
Tricky, a techno/rap/rock guy from Bristol was part of a firm and even has the tattoos to prove it.
An old rock band Happy Mondays were members of a gang in Salford/Manchester.
Moorish Delta, a group of UK rappers from Birminham I think were also from some crew. They show some guys throwing up handsigns in their 'Silent Screams' video, which sometimes plays on Channel U.
Also Klashnekoff, a rapper from Stoke Newington, London, was part of a well known crew called the Terra Firma which has turf in Stoke Newington, Dalston and Clapton and mentions the crew several times in the track Murda.
Millie, a garage DJ/MC is still a member of the Ghetto boyz. He gives shoutouts all the time he's on Flashback 99.3 FM and 'blazes (kills) peckham yoots like zoots (joints)' apparenly according to one of his lyrics (lol)
They were at one stage football hooligans and made a track called 'West Side Boyz' which was almost banned because it glorified the whole hooligan image.
Skrewdriver were actually suburban middle class kids who took the image of poor white kids and formed a crap punk band.
Several UK rappers and Garage artists claim to be gangsters, but hardly any are.
Asher D. from So Solid crew was never a Peckham Boy. He wasn't even from Peckham. He's from Battersea and his mum had a house in Surry and sent him to Stage School. He's like Chris Rock from CB4.
Megaman and Skat D. on the other hand WERE peckham boyz. Megaman wrote most of his lyrics while he was in Feltham Young Offenders Institution and is still a well known G in Peckham.
Tricky, a techno/rap/rock guy from Bristol was part of a firm and even has the tattoos to prove it.
An old rock band Happy Mondays were members of a gang in Salford/Manchester.
Moorish Delta, a group of UK rappers from Birminham I think were also from some crew. They show some guys throwing up handsigns in their 'Silent Screams' video, which sometimes plays on Channel U.
Also Klashnekoff, a rapper from Stoke Newington, London, was part of a well known crew called the Terra Firma which has turf in Stoke Newington, Dalston and Clapton and mentions the crew several times in the track Murda.
Millie, a garage DJ/MC is still a member of the Ghetto boyz. He gives shoutouts all the time he's on Flashback 99.3 FM and 'blazes (kills) peckham yoots like zoots (joints)' apparenly according to one of his lyrics (lol)
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bgcasper
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Re: England
thanks very interesting infos but i knew thet the originals skins were black
ska listeners they call them trojans now ,as you see a lots of foot fans are racist ....
ska listeners they call them trojans now ,as you see a lots of foot fans are racist ....
Re: England
Snowman wrote:
Michelldope you are SO F***ING WRONG!!!!
I would say that Brixton is about as multicultural and racially harmonious as you can get. It's probably only 50% black, and I have atleast 5 white mates from there, and they get on fine with the black guys. Brixton is becoming a gentrified area, and will soon be full of trendy's/yuppies etc.. Brixton has always been over egsagerated as a ghetto where theres all this crime.
Depends what part of Brixton your going to ?
I don't think it matters what part of Brixton you go to. I've been literally all round it, and I've never been 'spat at' once. Even the worst estates like Sommerleyton or St. Matthews are very racially harmonious. In Stockwell, directly north of Brixton there is a big poor white working class closely knit community around the area known as angell Town which maybe dangerous for blacks but I don't think there is anywhere in that area that's a no-go area for whites.
Like I said, Leyton has some areas you wouldn't want to go down if your not black, and bits of Little Ilford are practically no-go zones for non-south asians but that's about it.
Yes, bgC, the terrace culture does have a racist element in it, but it's probably more nationalist than racist. Over here we are so paranoid about racism that someone waving a union jack or st.georges cross will immediately be looked at like their racists, wheras in America someone waving the Stars and Stripes will be looked upon like their patriotic.
You can't really say that alot of football fans are racist. Most people in england watch football, and most english people aren't racist. Some of the football gangs are alligned with extreme right wing groups but that's probably political more than anything else.
The most racist football gangs are Millwall and Burnly, and the metropolitan police are shitting themselves with fear because on the same day West Ham are playing Burnley at West Ham's own ground, Millwall are playing Cardiff at Millwall's ground, and the matches are only a few miles apart and a train ride away from eachother. There are thoughts of shutting down the Metropolitan Line (a train line that links south london to east london) down for the day because all 4 teams are rivals, and many of West Ham's non-white fans are aching to fight some burnley and millwall fans and all the nationalist right wing Burnley and Millwall fans are gonna want to fight with Cardiff's notoriously Welsh Nationalist following. To complicate matters further, West Ham and Burnley ware the same colours.....
Ohh dear.
Like I said, Leyton has some areas you wouldn't want to go down if your not black, and bits of Little Ilford are practically no-go zones for non-south asians but that's about it.
Yes, bgC, the terrace culture does have a racist element in it, but it's probably more nationalist than racist. Over here we are so paranoid about racism that someone waving a union jack or st.georges cross will immediately be looked at like their racists, wheras in America someone waving the Stars and Stripes will be looked upon like their patriotic.
You can't really say that alot of football fans are racist. Most people in england watch football, and most english people aren't racist. Some of the football gangs are alligned with extreme right wing groups but that's probably political more than anything else.
The most racist football gangs are Millwall and Burnly, and the metropolitan police are shitting themselves with fear because on the same day West Ham are playing Burnley at West Ham's own ground, Millwall are playing Cardiff at Millwall's ground, and the matches are only a few miles apart and a train ride away from eachother. There are thoughts of shutting down the Metropolitan Line (a train line that links south london to east london) down for the day because all 4 teams are rivals, and many of West Ham's non-white fans are aching to fight some burnley and millwall fans and all the nationalist right wing Burnley and Millwall fans are gonna want to fight with Cardiff's notoriously Welsh Nationalist following. To complicate matters further, West Ham and Burnley ware the same colours.....
Ohh dear.
Re: England
First of all, thanks Snowman. Symarip is the group that sang Skinhead Moonstomp, and it was covered by Judge Dread, the Specials, and others. I forget who but Symarip is the name used by some band that played both early rock and roll and reggae only in recording that song because of the backlash.
Ian Stuart and Skrewdriver essentially sealed skinheads' fate as getting a bad rap. They were a VERY popular Oi! band, even stretching outside of the punk/skinhead scene. They then went on a talk show on National TV in America where Ian Stuart proudly claimed NS/NF. They then started playing RAC (rock against communism, or racist oi!). The "racism" among a lot of Hooligans IS misunderstood. It truly is more nationalism. Case in point, when the Jamaican workers came over during a labor shortage, many mods and teddy boys (soon to be the hard mods, or skinheads) adopted their style, music and culture. Just a few years later, when both British and Jamaican dockworkers were being replaced by non-English speaking immigrants from south asia, both BLACK JAMAICANS and WHITE BRITS started the "Anti-Paki League," which was NOT racist, and indeed, again, had many black members, however, was interested in protecting the culture and jobs of hardworking british laborers.
It was through the APL that the National Front started recruiting skinheads, who were vulnerable to that train of thought because of their angry, working class roots. The NF then started calling themselves NFS, National Front Skinheads, and transforming the image of skinheads to inspire fear. The same soon happened across the pond.
The reason it reminds you of Clockwork is because the "droogs" are in fact largely based on skinheads, and there is an entire segment of the skin population who "go clockwork," dressing in all white except their boots and a bowler.
Question for Snowman: Do lace colors still matter over there?
Ian Stuart and Skrewdriver essentially sealed skinheads' fate as getting a bad rap. They were a VERY popular Oi! band, even stretching outside of the punk/skinhead scene. They then went on a talk show on National TV in America where Ian Stuart proudly claimed NS/NF. They then started playing RAC (rock against communism, or racist oi!). The "racism" among a lot of Hooligans IS misunderstood. It truly is more nationalism. Case in point, when the Jamaican workers came over during a labor shortage, many mods and teddy boys (soon to be the hard mods, or skinheads) adopted their style, music and culture. Just a few years later, when both British and Jamaican dockworkers were being replaced by non-English speaking immigrants from south asia, both BLACK JAMAICANS and WHITE BRITS started the "Anti-Paki League," which was NOT racist, and indeed, again, had many black members, however, was interested in protecting the culture and jobs of hardworking british laborers.
It was through the APL that the National Front started recruiting skinheads, who were vulnerable to that train of thought because of their angry, working class roots. The NF then started calling themselves NFS, National Front Skinheads, and transforming the image of skinheads to inspire fear. The same soon happened across the pond.
The reason it reminds you of Clockwork is because the "droogs" are in fact largely based on skinheads, and there is an entire segment of the skin population who "go clockwork," dressing in all white except their boots and a bowler.
Question for Snowman: Do lace colors still matter over there?
Re: England
Ive read the " a clockwork orange " book, and alex´s gang cant be based in skinheads because skinheads started in 1969, and the book was written in 1962.
Keep it real, dawgz !!
Keep it real, dawgz !!
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CuriousEuropean
- Newbie
- Posts: 21
- Joined: September 19th, 2003, 12:46 pm
- Location: Wales, United Kingdom
Re: England
Snowman, dunno how your you get your information, but I'm a Cardiff City supporter, and Welsh. I travel with Cardiff City to away games and they are bonkers when they go off. But there is no way you can mention football hooliganism on a (predominantly LA) street gang site. Its not even the same sport never mind ball park. Only SOME Cardiff fans are Welsh nationalist, although all (including me) are fiercely patriotic for our flag. Cardiff behave badly simply because their "element" are nutcases. They really aren't nationalists, dont confuse patriotism with nationalism. Cardiff does house some racists. Combat 18 etc. A few really nasty folk in their (Cardiffs) firm.
West Ham are up with us (Cardiff) Tues 23 Sept for a cup game.
That day you speak of in London could be naughty, the old bill will have it on top tho'. Burnley are racist but are rubbish as a firm. Millwall, Cardiff and West Ham could have a serious off if not policed.
Millwall got smashed in Cardiff a few years ago, badly beat in the streets.
Cardiff travelled but police won 2 years ago at their place. Stoke will be worse for all teams. I went their when we rioted, nutty.
For the record, I'm just back from Milan (Wales lost 4-0 in San Siro), Lazio fans greeted us when we got let out. Damn, their hooli probs are tribal over there, they like their weapons more than the Brits, full of cowards zooming past on scooters leaning over with blades to slash peoples backs. Nasty, but cowards.
For the Americans reading this, the Brit culture of football hooliganism is not like your street gang phenomen. Its like Oakland Raiders fans being notorious for travelling to away NFL games and bashing up rival teams supporters or making Raiders stadium a place where no rival fan wants to visit thro' fear.
Regards, be safe
Curious
West Ham are up with us (Cardiff) Tues 23 Sept for a cup game.
That day you speak of in London could be naughty, the old bill will have it on top tho'. Burnley are racist but are rubbish as a firm. Millwall, Cardiff and West Ham could have a serious off if not policed.
Millwall got smashed in Cardiff a few years ago, badly beat in the streets.
Cardiff travelled but police won 2 years ago at their place. Stoke will be worse for all teams. I went their when we rioted, nutty.
For the record, I'm just back from Milan (Wales lost 4-0 in San Siro), Lazio fans greeted us when we got let out. Damn, their hooli probs are tribal over there, they like their weapons more than the Brits, full of cowards zooming past on scooters leaning over with blades to slash peoples backs. Nasty, but cowards.
For the Americans reading this, the Brit culture of football hooliganism is not like your street gang phenomen. Its like Oakland Raiders fans being notorious for travelling to away NFL games and bashing up rival teams supporters or making Raiders stadium a place where no rival fan wants to visit thro' fear.
Regards, be safe
Curious
Re: England
'Anti-Paki league' not racist ? Ofcourse it was...moonstomp wrote:.Just a few years later, when both British and Jamaican dockworkers were being replaced by non-English speaking immigrants from south asia, both BLACK JAMAICANS and WHITE BRITS started the "Anti-Paki League," which was NOT racist, and indeed, again, had many black members, however, was interested in protecting the culture and jobs of hardworking british laborers.
...
well, like you said strangest things do happen, but I find that hard to believe. Sorry, same with the first quote.And also, I KNOW, again, for a FACT, that two of the leaders of the WP movement in the U.S. were a big black guy with a swazi on his forehead and a little black woman
Black and white marching together , in the anti-paki league...I can't imagine it.
Re: England
I was browsing through the gang stuff for the UK and I found it wanting, there is a growing underground of gang membership in Hackney in East London, effecting a significant number of 'at risk' young people. More of that in a moment.
Some uninformed person said that they knew of no 'no go zones' in the Uk, apart from "pikey shit holes in Lancashire...like Preston." Firstly, there are no 'no go zones' in Preston, I know, I grew up there. Also the word pikey is a racist term denagrating people from traveller/gypsy backgrounds and culture. Whoever you are boy, get an education, 'cos in this snapshot, you are sadly ignorant.
In Hackney, East London there has been an evolving gang culture over the last few years. Though the issue isn't on the scale of the experience in LA, it is a growing phenomena and has deadly consequences. I know members of a Hackney gang who have been at war with a Tottenham gang since '97. There have been many tit for tat murders and shootings between the groups since that time and as far as I understand, the war is far from over.
There are other groups in Hackney- Penbury Boys, Holly Street Boys, Field Boys, Mother's Square Boys and many, many more. Sadly, these 'newer' street gangs are following the patterns of our US cousins - drug running and supply, street robbery and so on. Guns are becoming commonplace and young people are using them with greater frequency. The proliferation of crack cocaine has also infected our community in Hackney and as our US cousins fully appreciate, is a major generator for crime and chaos. All this is real and happening. Get informed. Hey, by the way, there are answers to gang issues - social justice and political will - access to decent housing, access into education, training and emplyment and a hope for the future. Get political!
Some uninformed person said that they knew of no 'no go zones' in the Uk, apart from "pikey shit holes in Lancashire...like Preston." Firstly, there are no 'no go zones' in Preston, I know, I grew up there. Also the word pikey is a racist term denagrating people from traveller/gypsy backgrounds and culture. Whoever you are boy, get an education, 'cos in this snapshot, you are sadly ignorant.
In Hackney, East London there has been an evolving gang culture over the last few years. Though the issue isn't on the scale of the experience in LA, it is a growing phenomena and has deadly consequences. I know members of a Hackney gang who have been at war with a Tottenham gang since '97. There have been many tit for tat murders and shootings between the groups since that time and as far as I understand, the war is far from over.
There are other groups in Hackney- Penbury Boys, Holly Street Boys, Field Boys, Mother's Square Boys and many, many more. Sadly, these 'newer' street gangs are following the patterns of our US cousins - drug running and supply, street robbery and so on. Guns are becoming commonplace and young people are using them with greater frequency. The proliferation of crack cocaine has also infected our community in Hackney and as our US cousins fully appreciate, is a major generator for crime and chaos. All this is real and happening. Get informed. Hey, by the way, there are answers to gang issues - social justice and political will - access to decent housing, access into education, training and emplyment and a hope for the future. Get political!
LETS CLEAR THIS SHITE UP!
Noog - OK, so you say I am a racist for using the word pikey. Let me explain to you that word has changed meaning. You reckon it's a racist term towards gypsies...well it's not. It now basically means the same as 'white trash' in america. It's an insulting term for poor white people/places/culture. The 'gypsies' in England (well the ones in south london and leyton anyway) arent real gypsies. They are Irish tinkers. The real gypsies are from the romani people, who origionated in india, and are a nomadic people, with their own culture, religion and language. They are in fact a completely seperate ethnic group, and the only ones i've come across either live on harts lane estate, barking, or are kosovan refugees.
The 'gypsies' down my way are not romani. Any true romani (i've known a few in my life, actually. Mostly through a kosovan friend I've got) dispises irish travellers. And quite rightly so. They are the most racist, unpleasant, thieving people I've ever come across. Infact, they are responsible for the only 'no-go' area I've ever come across in london. Try walking down Star Lane in Orpington. It's lined with caravans on each side. I know someone who got lost down that way. He was jacked and beaten so badly he couldn't walk for the next few months.
I mentioned 'no-go' zones coz someone else said that you will get spat at in brixton if you're white. I told him that the only black/white no-go-zones I can think of are in places like Burnley/Preston etc. And before you start, I've been to Preston, and walked through an asian area, and noticed how unwelcome I felt. I also walked through some estate around Fulward Barracks and saw 'BNP' spayed on just about every wall. I don't care how good you are at closing your eyes, to me they seemed like 'no-go' areas, and they were in preston. I've lived in south london literally all my life, and been involved in criminal activity in the past, so I know what I'm talking about when i was talking 'bout the gangs in Peckham.
I've got family and friends in Hackney, and I know about some of the crews your on about. They aint just kids tho, you should know that. Most of the gangs in london are, like the Ferrier Crew, YPB, etc., mostly made up of kids who leave the gang when they're about 22 when they get jobs/family etc., but some of the gangs in hackney and the rougher bits of south london arent like that. Also there are still firms in East London. Most of the members are career criminals who have been in and out of prison all their lives tho.
The worst city for gangs/guns/drugs etc. that I can think of is Manchester. Salford has recently undergone a MASSIVE yuppiefication process, and Stratford, round your way will end up like that soon. But Manchester still has more of it's fair share of gangs/guns/drugs. I've been to Moss Side, in Manchester, and to me seemed like literally the worst place in the whole of europe. I've been to the slums of Glasgow, and even managed to get off at a wrong station in Paris, and wondered into a towerblock estate in Warsaw, but Moss Side seemed worse. It was horrible. I think someone on here needs to do some research on Moss Side, coz that looks like the top place for gangs in the UK.
You seem like a smartarse, so why don't you do it?
Boy? Piss off.
Mug.
The 'gypsies' down my way are not romani. Any true romani (i've known a few in my life, actually. Mostly through a kosovan friend I've got) dispises irish travellers. And quite rightly so. They are the most racist, unpleasant, thieving people I've ever come across. Infact, they are responsible for the only 'no-go' area I've ever come across in london. Try walking down Star Lane in Orpington. It's lined with caravans on each side. I know someone who got lost down that way. He was jacked and beaten so badly he couldn't walk for the next few months.
I mentioned 'no-go' zones coz someone else said that you will get spat at in brixton if you're white. I told him that the only black/white no-go-zones I can think of are in places like Burnley/Preston etc. And before you start, I've been to Preston, and walked through an asian area, and noticed how unwelcome I felt. I also walked through some estate around Fulward Barracks and saw 'BNP' spayed on just about every wall. I don't care how good you are at closing your eyes, to me they seemed like 'no-go' areas, and they were in preston. I've lived in south london literally all my life, and been involved in criminal activity in the past, so I know what I'm talking about when i was talking 'bout the gangs in Peckham.
I've got family and friends in Hackney, and I know about some of the crews your on about. They aint just kids tho, you should know that. Most of the gangs in london are, like the Ferrier Crew, YPB, etc., mostly made up of kids who leave the gang when they're about 22 when they get jobs/family etc., but some of the gangs in hackney and the rougher bits of south london arent like that. Also there are still firms in East London. Most of the members are career criminals who have been in and out of prison all their lives tho.
The worst city for gangs/guns/drugs etc. that I can think of is Manchester. Salford has recently undergone a MASSIVE yuppiefication process, and Stratford, round your way will end up like that soon. But Manchester still has more of it's fair share of gangs/guns/drugs. I've been to Moss Side, in Manchester, and to me seemed like literally the worst place in the whole of europe. I've been to the slums of Glasgow, and even managed to get off at a wrong station in Paris, and wondered into a towerblock estate in Warsaw, but Moss Side seemed worse. It was horrible. I think someone on here needs to do some research on Moss Side, coz that looks like the top place for gangs in the UK.
You seem like a smartarse, so why don't you do it?
Boy? Piss off.
Mug.
Re: England
Hey Snowman,
Listen, you right and you wrong. True, Preston has tensions, but unlike Burnley, when the BNP tried to march thier this year, they got chased out of town. Lads I know, Asian And white, chased them out of town. It ain't a no go zone tho, simple as.
And, I'm not a smartarse. I also know Irish Traveller famillies. You right, some do live down to the stereotypes that people have of them, theiving etc but, like all stereotypes, covers the wider truth. You said you had a crim past, so are you an ex-theiving pikey? Anyhow, I'm bored of that debate. You got upset by being called boy, soz kid, but you can see how you set yourself up. Glad your no racist, but give Irish Travellers a chance man, they people too. Piss of yersen! Big Lass.
On to the gang thing. Again you right. Manchester has rough spots, including Moss Side, but I don't know so much about it. I know more about Hackney. Your right again, not all kids, some hardcore members. And thats my point - there is a growing underground of gang activity, ready and willing to take on kids as recruits. Tell us more about South London, cos tho you come across as an arse, I'm starting to like you A bit at least.
Listen, you right and you wrong. True, Preston has tensions, but unlike Burnley, when the BNP tried to march thier this year, they got chased out of town. Lads I know, Asian And white, chased them out of town. It ain't a no go zone tho, simple as.
And, I'm not a smartarse. I also know Irish Traveller famillies. You right, some do live down to the stereotypes that people have of them, theiving etc but, like all stereotypes, covers the wider truth. You said you had a crim past, so are you an ex-theiving pikey? Anyhow, I'm bored of that debate. You got upset by being called boy, soz kid, but you can see how you set yourself up. Glad your no racist, but give Irish Travellers a chance man, they people too. Piss of yersen! Big Lass.
On to the gang thing. Again you right. Manchester has rough spots, including Moss Side, but I don't know so much about it. I know more about Hackney. Your right again, not all kids, some hardcore members. And thats my point - there is a growing underground of gang activity, ready and willing to take on kids as recruits. Tell us more about South London, cos tho you come across as an arse, I'm starting to like you A bit at least.
Re: LETS CLEAR THIS SHITE UP!
I've walked through many a pikey area and never been touched, They say hello and that, a very pleasant people, and yes they have there own culture they originated from the people that went around in the Famine....Snowman wrote: The 'gypsies' down my way are not romani. Any true romani (i've known a few in my life, actually. Mostly through a kosovan friend I've got) dispises irish travellers. And quite rightly so. They are the most racist, unpleasant, thieving people I've ever come across. Infact, they are responsible for the only 'no-go' area I've ever come across in london. Try walking down Star Lane in Orpington. It's lined with caravans on each side. I know someone who got lost down that way. He was jacked and beaten so badly he couldn't walk for the next few months.
Mosside is very bad, but try walkin round in a loyalist ghetto in belfast, where they patrol around in there cars with guns....They are the worst ive seen for Drugs/Gang/Guns. and if your a catholic, u wouldnt get out, Loyalist Bigots they are...
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SpacerLoco
- Straw Weight
- Posts: 93
- Joined: July 21st, 2003, 4:55 pm
- Location: Dublin, Eire 32.
- Contact:
Re: England
I visit London on quite a regular basis &I've been through some of the rougher area's that people have warned me about and they ain't stuff to me, I'm from Dublin and if you wana walk through areas like Ballymun, Ballyfermot, Tallaght or Clondalkin I guarantee that your gona get into alot more trouble as here they pick you off as an outsider straight off, in my area we know who everyone is thats involved in any stuff, but cuz cities like London are so big, you can walk through area's and no-one will say nothing to you, yet try do that here and your just asking for trouble.
Re: England
replyto Duffman -
Yup, I guess those loyalist areas of Belfast must surley represent some of the meanest streets in the UK, but are those paramilitary groups gangs as such - have they translated into crime more than, er, politics (thats what they would have called it, if you call politics murdering catholics!)?
Where is Snowman, I was enjoying a likle bit a beef wid im! Wanna spar a bit more, get me!
Yup, I guess those loyalist areas of Belfast must surley represent some of the meanest streets in the UK, but are those paramilitary groups gangs as such - have they translated into crime more than, er, politics (thats what they would have called it, if you call politics murdering catholics!)?
Where is Snowman, I was enjoying a likle bit a beef wid im! Wanna spar a bit more, get me!
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Mohammed Ali
- Straw Weight
- Posts: 46
- Joined: January 27th, 2004, 6:45 am
- Location: Dubai-U.A.E-and Leeds
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Re: England
Does anyone know of any gangs in Birmingham ?
Re: England
I've been reading about gang culture in Manchester. -was reading about an ongoing war for the last five years between the Gooch Close gang and the Pit Bull gang. Lots of fatalities in that time. Does anyone know more about these and other crews?, cos its second hand from me...just to carry on the thread really.....
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Silencioso
- Light Heavy Weight
- Posts: 1865
- Joined: August 8th, 2003, 2:27 pm
- What city do you live in now?: West Los
Re: England
Ive read the " a clockwork orange " book, and alex´s gang cant be based in skinheads because skinheads started in 1969, and the book was written in 1962.
The movie was made in 1971 when the first generation of skins were active. Alex;s gang is based on the skin/suedehead style. The rival gang they fought were based on greasers/rockers, the skins main rival group in the early 70's
The movie was made in 1971 when the first generation of skins were active. Alex;s gang is based on the skin/suedehead style. The rival gang they fought were based on greasers/rockers, the skins main rival group in the early 70's
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Mohammed Ali
- Straw Weight
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- Location: Dubai-U.A.E-and Leeds
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Re: England
Does anyone know any gangs in Mosside?
Re: England
Are the gangs in mosside white or black?
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Mohammed Ali
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Re: England
Whats the toughest gang in Manchester? Which part of Manchester are they in?
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Mohammed Ali
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Re: England
Here is some stuff I found out about manchester gangs
Gooch gang
members:64
year gang emerged:1988
confirmed shootings:10
confirmed murders:6
arrests for gun offences:15
Doddington
members:30
year gang emerged:1988
confirmed shootings:6
confirmed murders:2
arrests for gun offences:7
Pit bull crew
members:26
year gang emerged:1999
confirmed shootings:3
confirmed murders:1
arrests for gun offences:8
longsight crew
members:67
year gang emerged:1996
confirmed shootings:4
confirmed murders:1
arrests for gun offences:15
Gooch gang
members:64
year gang emerged:1988
confirmed shootings:10
confirmed murders:6
arrests for gun offences:15
Doddington
members:30
year gang emerged:1988
confirmed shootings:6
confirmed murders:2
arrests for gun offences:7
Pit bull crew
members:26
year gang emerged:1999
confirmed shootings:3
confirmed murders:1
arrests for gun offences:8
longsight crew
members:67
year gang emerged:1996
confirmed shootings:4
confirmed murders:1
arrests for gun offences:15