ENGLAND STREET GANG ACTIVITY
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Discuss anything about Western European street gangs and organized crime.
Discuss anything about Western European street gangs and organized crime.
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- Middle Weight
- Posts: 245
- Joined: June 5th, 2004, 9:24 pm
- Location: london
Teen dies in latest London murder
Apr 7, 2007, 12:35 GMT
A 14-year-old boy was stabbed to death in east London last night in the latest in a series of murders in the capital.
Police arrested a 13-year-old boy in the early hours of this morning at his home in London in connection with the incident, which also saw the stabbing of a 15-year-old boy who remains critically ill in hospital.
The stabbings occurred in what appears to be a gang fight shortly before emergency services were called at 19:55 BST last night.
'We understand a large group of youths were involved in an incident in the foyer of Gean Court, a block of flats in Langthorne Road, during which we believe the two victims were stabbed,' Detective Chief Inspector Matthew Horne, who is heading the investigation into the murder this weekend, said last night.
'It is believed they then managed to stagger the short distance to nearby Crownfield Road. A number of youths were seen running from the scene,' he added.
The two victims, who were known to be friends, follow a series of shootings in London in early February.
Fifteen-year-old Billy Cox was shot dead in Lambeth, while churchgoing Michael Dosonmu, also 15, was shot in his bedroom in Peckham. Three days later 16-year-old James Andre died after being shot at a busy ice rink in Streatham.
'We are appealing for anyone who was present during the incident to come forward, along with any witnesses or anyone with information on this appalling crime,' DCI Horne said.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/uk/n ... don_murder
Apr 7, 2007, 12:35 GMT
A 14-year-old boy was stabbed to death in east London last night in the latest in a series of murders in the capital.
Police arrested a 13-year-old boy in the early hours of this morning at his home in London in connection with the incident, which also saw the stabbing of a 15-year-old boy who remains critically ill in hospital.
The stabbings occurred in what appears to be a gang fight shortly before emergency services were called at 19:55 BST last night.
'We understand a large group of youths were involved in an incident in the foyer of Gean Court, a block of flats in Langthorne Road, during which we believe the two victims were stabbed,' Detective Chief Inspector Matthew Horne, who is heading the investigation into the murder this weekend, said last night.
'It is believed they then managed to stagger the short distance to nearby Crownfield Road. A number of youths were seen running from the scene,' he added.
The two victims, who were known to be friends, follow a series of shootings in London in early February.
Fifteen-year-old Billy Cox was shot dead in Lambeth, while churchgoing Michael Dosonmu, also 15, was shot in his bedroom in Peckham. Three days later 16-year-old James Andre died after being shot at a busy ice rink in Streatham.
'We are appealing for anyone who was present during the incident to come forward, along with any witnesses or anyone with information on this appalling crime,' DCI Horne said.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/uk/n ... don_murder
another lad shot in plaistow, E london yesterday ina drive by. just a few streets where that other lad got stabbed to death last month. london is fuckin nuts at the minute, seems like theres summat goin on every other day. i know it isnt gang related, but that pregnant woman gettin blasted is fuccin awful aswell.
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- Middle Weight
- Posts: 245
- Joined: June 5th, 2004, 9:24 pm
- Location: london
Some great pics of london estates. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=339753
eres a list of sum of the many crews in london:-
North West London (Brent & Camden)
NW1
Cumbo Boyz - Regents Prk Estate
Drummond Street Boys - Drummond Street
Somers Town Boyz - Somers Town
NW2
Cricklewood - SLK
NW5
Centric Crew - Oval Road
Queens Crescent - Queens Crescent
NW6
Acorn Man Dem - South Kilburn
NW Untouchables - Brondesbury Park
SK Hood - South Kilburn
NW8
Abbey Road Man Dem - SLK
Lisson Green Man Dem - Lisson Green Estate
NW10
Church Road Man Dem - Church End Estate
Greenhill Yout Dem - (S) Craven Park Road
Harsh-Don Man Dem - Harlesden
Shakespeare Youts - Stonebridge Estate
St Raphz Manz - St Raphaels Estate
Stonebridge Man Dem - Stonebridge Estate
Willesden Green Boys - Willesden
NW6/NW10
Yardies (Elders)
West London (Acton, Hammersmith & Fulham, Kensington & Chelsea and City of Westminster)
W2
Westbourne Park Man Dem - Brunel Estate Area
W3
South Acton Boys - South Acton Estate
W6
Queen Caroline Estate
W10
Ladbroke Grove Man Dem - Bevington/Blagrove
Latimer Road Man Dem - Sutton & Peabody Estates/Latimer Road
Kensal Town Man Dem - Kensal Town
Queens Park Man Dem - Queens Park Estate
W11
Edwardes Wood Boys - Edwardes Woods
Ladbroke Grove Man Dem - Lancaster West Estate
W12
Bush Man Dem - White City Estate
Bush Man Dem - Lime Grove Area
Becklow Man Dem - Askew Road & Becklow Gardens Estate
W14
West Kensington Estate
WC1
Cromer Street Boys - Cromer Street
South East London (Croydon, Greenwich, Lewisham & Southwark)
SE3
Ferrier Youts - Ferrier Est.
SE4
Brockley Man Dem - Honor Oak Area
Young Brockley Manz - Honor Oak Area
SE5
Circle Boys - Denmark Hill
Dulwich Crew - Champion & Dog Kennel Hill
Peckham Boyz - Camden Est.
SE6
Catford Wildcats - Catford Central
SE7
Cherry Youts - Cherry Orchard Est.
SE8
D-Block - Evelyn Est.
Ghetto Boys - Milton Ct. Est.
Pepys Man - Pepys Est.
SE11
K-Town Youts - Kennington
SE13
Ghetto Boys - Lewisham Central
Lethbridge Man Dem - Lethbridge Est.
SE14
Ghetto Boys - New Cross
SE15
Peckham Boys - North Peckham Est, Gloucester Grove Est, Sumner Est, Goldsmith Est.
SE16
Bermondsey Boys
SE17
Firehouse Crew - Aylesbury Est.
Woolly Road Manz & OTB - Browning Est.
SE18
Plumstead Man Dem - Common Area
Woolwich Manz - Woolwich Riverside Area
SE19
Gypsett - Central Hill Est.
SE20
Penge Man Dem - South of Annerley
SE24
Herne Hill Man Dem
SE25
Norwood Youts - Norwood Junction
SE26
SYD - Wells Park
SE28
T-Block - Thamesmaed
South West London (Lambeth, Merton & Wandsworth)
SW2
New Park Gs - New Park Court
Tulse Hill Man Dem - St Martins & Palace Road Est.
Younger 28s - Tulse Hill Est.
SW4
Clapham Park Boys
Claptown Man Dem
G-Street
Stick Up Kidz - Clapham Junction Est.
SW9
28s/Poverty Driven Children - Angell Town
Poverty Driven Children Cliques - OC/PIF/MZ/RSG/CFR
Stockwell Man Dem - Stockwell Park
SW11
Surrey Lane Man Dem - Surrey Lane Est. Battersea
Winstanley Estate Man Dem - Winstanley Est. Battersea
SW16
Streatham Man Dem - Ice Rink Area
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
SW17
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
Tooting Boyz - Tooting
SW18
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
Wandsworth Terrorzone
SW20
Blenheim 28s
Raynes Park Tamils - Raynes Park
East London (Hackney, Newham, Tower Hamlets & Waltham Forest)
EC1
Whitecross Boys - Whitecross Estate
E1
Brick Lane Massive - Brick Lane Whitechapel
Cannon Street Posse - Cannon Street
Shadwell Massive - Solander Gardens
Stepney Posse - Ocean Estate & Stepney Green
E2
Bengal Tigers - (W) of Vallance Road
Bethnal Green Somalians - (S) B.Green
Haggerston Man Dem - Fellows Court
E3
Devons Road Kruisers - Devons Estate
E3 Massive - South Bow
Elton Man Dem - (S) of Victoria Park
E4
Chingford Hall Man Dem - Chingford Hall
Hatch Man Dem - Chingford Hatch
E5
E5TH Ridaz - Lower Clapton & Gilpin Sq
Mothers Sq Boys - MSq. Hackney Downs
Knightingdale Youts - Knightingdale Est.
P-Block - Pembury & Clapton Sq.
Springfield man Dem - Webb & Fawcett Est.
E6
Beckton Man Dem - Windsor Park
JC Boyz - Custom House
E7
Blackwater Man Dem - Blackwater Est. FG
Forest Gate Man Dem - S. Forest Gate
E8
Evelyn Court Man Dem - Hackney Downs
HFC - Haggerston & Fields
Hindle House Tugz - Dalston Central
Holly Street Boys - Holly Street Est.
London Field Boys - Fields Estate
Queensbridge - Kingsland
E9
E9ERS - Homerton & Ballance
Kingsmead - Kingsmead Way
Trowbridge - Hackney Wick
Well Street Boys - South Hackney
E10
Beaumont Man Dem - Beaumont Road
OC Boys - Oliver Close
E11
Cathall Tugz - Cathall
Fatch man Dem - Fatch Ho.
Hillbridge Boyz - Hillbridge Twr
Leytonstone Man Dem - L/Stone Clicks
E12
Manor Park Souljahs - Manor Park
Paki Panthers (Also E10/E11/E17)
Tamil Tigers - Manor Park
E13
Plaistow Man Dem - Plaistow & P.New Road (E15)
E14
Bartlett Park Crew - Bartlett Park Est.
Limhouse Massive - Locksley Est.
Wilehouse Man Dem - Limehouse Fields Est.
E15
Alma Tugz - Maryland
L.O.S. - Lords of Stratford
Stratford Man Dem - Stratford Central
E16
Canning Town Man Dem
Jeeperz - Canning Town
E17
Barrier Youts - Upper Walthamstow
Boundary Crew - Burrell & Rayners Estate
Priory Court Boys - Highams Hill
Walthamstow Drive Boys - Upper Walthamstow
Walthamstow Tamils - Walthamstow Central
North London (Barnet, Enfield, Hackney, Haringey & Islington)
N1
De Beauvoir Twn Man Dem - Hackney Side
Hoxton Boys/Love of Money - Hoxton Ests.
Murray Grove Boyz - Murray Grove
Popham Estate Boyz - Popham Ests.
N4
Blue City/Queens Drive - Hackney Sides
Finsbury Park Man Dem - Six Acres Est.
Holly Park Boyz - Holly Prk Est.
Manor House Boyz - Woodberry Downs
N5
Highbury Grove Boyz - Highbury Grove Est.
N7
Holloway Man Dem - Islington
Romford Man Dem - Islington
Tufnell Park - Islington
N8
Busy Blocks - Hornsey
Chettle Court Boys - Hornsey
Hornsey Bloodz - Hornsey
Hornsey Man Dem - Hornsey
New Land Estate Boyz - Hornsey
Stationers Park - Hornsey
N9
Edmonton Man Dem - Edmonton Green/L. Edmonton
Fore Street Boyz - Fore Street N9/N18
Shanktown - N9
N15
Craven Park Manz - South Totti
Edgecott Boyz - South Totti
Ferry Lane Man Dem - South Totti
IDA Boyz - South Totti
Stonebridge Manz - South Totti
Tiverton Man Dem - South Totti
Tottenham Lost Souls - South Totti
TMD/Northstar - Totti Twn
N16
Bombers - Turks, H-Twn
Kurdish Bulldogs
L.O.R.D - Stokey
L.O.S - Stokey
Shakespeare Man Dem
Stamford Hill Man Dem
N17
Chestnut Boyz - Chestnut Est.
Evastrap Yard Manz - Bruce Grove
Farm Boyz - Broadwater
F.I.R.M - Tottenham
NPK - Northumberland Park
Scotland Green Boyz - SG Est.
Tottenham Ghetto Thugs
N18
Fore Street Boyz - Joyce Ave/Snells Prk Endz
Redbrick Crew - Klinger Est
N19
Archway Man Dem - Islington
N22
North London Somalians - Duccets Common
Rampage Boyz - Wood Green
Wood Green MOB - Wood Green
Outer London (Outside of London Postcode Areas)
African Devils - Redbridge, IG
Dem Twisted Soldiers - Croydon, CR
Ilford Top Criminals - Redbridge, IG
Ill Town Man Dem - Redbridge, IG
Ministry of Darkness - Redbridge, IG
Southall Mali Soldiers - Ealing, UB
Terrorzone - Croydon, CR
Thornton Heath Man Dem - Croydon, CR
Til Death Youts - Croydon, CR
West London Malis - Hounslow, TW
Tamil Groups
Ariyala Tamils- Brent, HA
Copley Close Tamils - Ealing, W
Croydon Tamils - Croydon, CR
East Side Tamils - Newham, E
Raynes Park Tamils - Merton, SW
Red Line Tamils - Brent, HA
Tamil Tigers - Newham, E
Valvettihurai VVT - Brent HA
Walthamstow Tamils - Waltham Forest, E
Wembley Boys - Brent, HA
Turkish and Kurdish Groups
Angry Turks - Haringey
Bombers - Hackney
Holloway Kurdz - Islington
Istanbul Youth - Haringey
Kurdish Bull Dogs - Brent, Haringey
PKK - Enfield/Haringey
Rowdy Kurdz - Haringey
Small Village Kurdz - Haringey
Smilerz - Haringey
Snooker Boys - Haringey
Tottenham Boys - Haringey
Tottenham Kurdz - Haringey
WHL Turks - Haringey
youger gangs
SOUTH LONDON
38s - Younger Younger Brixton Youts
DTS Dem Twisted Soldiers - Thornton Heath
ALC Acre Lane Campaign - Clapham/Brixton
Baghdad Young Ones - SW9
DGM Dirty Gip Mob - SE25
DSC Dirty South Criminals
DST Dirty South Terrors - Tooting
DTM - SE16
KMT - SE6
LDSD - SE20
MDSD Mayday Sprayday - Lambeth
OTB Out to Ball - Southwark
New Park Gz - Lambeth
SMN - SE20
SEE Str8 Eat Em - Streatham
SFS Str8 From Souf - Southwark
SW So What - Lambeth
TFS - Bermondsey
TOC - SW
YFE Young Fully Equipped- SW4
YT Young Tugz - SE1
PDC Bratz - Lambeth
Gypset - Lambeth/Croydon
Bloodset - SW9
Cripset - SW9
KTH Kids on The Hill - SW2
OC Organised Criminals - SW9
A-Town Bandits - Angell Town
NHB Never Hold Back - Streatham
AB - SE18
Heatmakers - SE18
MAG/ADD/GAT/SSG/MDC/PTS/DWT - all Lambeth & Southwark
YBR - Camberwell
ATS - Streatham
BDC - CR4
THB - SW2
Tower Blocks
2Gully Crew
Gypset Taliban
Dogg Pound
2SF - SE25
DPC - SW16
MAD - SE15
Chosen Ones
Pollards Hill Mandem
DTK - SW2
RMS/VSS/ICE - SW16
SUK - Stickem up Kidz, Souths Under Kontrol
OSA
Green Gang
LMD - Thornton Heath
Clapham Up Clan
Full Force
WPSH - SW18
North & Northwest London
MLZ Movement Lords - Haringey
NL Northern Liners - Tottenham
NC North Camp - N22
RBS Rampage Boys - N22
Fanatiks Kru
Venom Kru - Tottenham
TT Tiny Terrors - Haringey
NSF North Side Family - Wood Green
ANM Animaniacs - Wood Green
G-Fam
Outlaw Fam - Hornsey
Unlimited Impact
Murkage Camp
Looney Tunez - N22
MIT -N22
Shoddy Kru - N17
LMD Lick Man Down - N8
Cold Society - Haringey
N8 Youngas
Small Soldiers - Tottenham
ColdBloodedCrew - Edmonton
Shanktown/MT - Edmonton
Heavyweight Mandem - Edmonton
CCK - Edmonton
DMC Dominant Crew - Edmonton
DGM the Goonsta Mandem - Edmonton
Lethal Dynasty Crew - Edmonton
15th Family
Commerce Road Boys - WG
Formation Squad - Edmonton
Too Much Talent - Tottenham
Edgecot/Suffolk/Twyford Goonez - Tottenham
TTO - N16
Strap City - N18
Young Militant Somalians - WG
Born Tugz - N18
Burbridge Boys - N17
Montague Mandem - Edmonton
E-Block - Brent
UGA Ull Get Aggied/Underground Attack Brent
Out To Terrorise
Strictly Northwest
Badminded Military - N7
Dark Element Man Dem - N19/N9
Most Wanted Crew/Boydem Most Wanted - Edmonton
Bun Dem Crew - N17
Y&R Finsbury
Y.SLK
6FU
North West London (Brent & Camden)
NW1
Cumbo Boyz - Regents Prk Estate
Drummond Street Boys - Drummond Street
Somers Town Boyz - Somers Town
NW2
Cricklewood - SLK
NW5
Centric Crew - Oval Road
Queens Crescent - Queens Crescent
NW6
Acorn Man Dem - South Kilburn
NW Untouchables - Brondesbury Park
SK Hood - South Kilburn
NW8
Abbey Road Man Dem - SLK
Lisson Green Man Dem - Lisson Green Estate
NW10
Church Road Man Dem - Church End Estate
Greenhill Yout Dem - (S) Craven Park Road
Harsh-Don Man Dem - Harlesden
Shakespeare Youts - Stonebridge Estate
St Raphz Manz - St Raphaels Estate
Stonebridge Man Dem - Stonebridge Estate
Willesden Green Boys - Willesden
NW6/NW10
Yardies (Elders)
West London (Acton, Hammersmith & Fulham, Kensington & Chelsea and City of Westminster)
W2
Westbourne Park Man Dem - Brunel Estate Area
W3
South Acton Boys - South Acton Estate
W6
Queen Caroline Estate
W10
Ladbroke Grove Man Dem - Bevington/Blagrove
Latimer Road Man Dem - Sutton & Peabody Estates/Latimer Road
Kensal Town Man Dem - Kensal Town
Queens Park Man Dem - Queens Park Estate
W11
Edwardes Wood Boys - Edwardes Woods
Ladbroke Grove Man Dem - Lancaster West Estate
W12
Bush Man Dem - White City Estate
Bush Man Dem - Lime Grove Area
Becklow Man Dem - Askew Road & Becklow Gardens Estate
W14
West Kensington Estate
WC1
Cromer Street Boys - Cromer Street
South East London (Croydon, Greenwich, Lewisham & Southwark)
SE3
Ferrier Youts - Ferrier Est.
SE4
Brockley Man Dem - Honor Oak Area
Young Brockley Manz - Honor Oak Area
SE5
Circle Boys - Denmark Hill
Dulwich Crew - Champion & Dog Kennel Hill
Peckham Boyz - Camden Est.
SE6
Catford Wildcats - Catford Central
SE7
Cherry Youts - Cherry Orchard Est.
SE8
D-Block - Evelyn Est.
Ghetto Boys - Milton Ct. Est.
Pepys Man - Pepys Est.
SE11
K-Town Youts - Kennington
SE13
Ghetto Boys - Lewisham Central
Lethbridge Man Dem - Lethbridge Est.
SE14
Ghetto Boys - New Cross
SE15
Peckham Boys - North Peckham Est, Gloucester Grove Est, Sumner Est, Goldsmith Est.
SE16
Bermondsey Boys
SE17
Firehouse Crew - Aylesbury Est.
Woolly Road Manz & OTB - Browning Est.
SE18
Plumstead Man Dem - Common Area
Woolwich Manz - Woolwich Riverside Area
SE19
Gypsett - Central Hill Est.
SE20
Penge Man Dem - South of Annerley
SE24
Herne Hill Man Dem
SE25
Norwood Youts - Norwood Junction
SE26
SYD - Wells Park
SE28
T-Block - Thamesmaed
South West London (Lambeth, Merton & Wandsworth)
SW2
New Park Gs - New Park Court
Tulse Hill Man Dem - St Martins & Palace Road Est.
Younger 28s - Tulse Hill Est.
SW4
Clapham Park Boys
Claptown Man Dem
G-Street
Stick Up Kidz - Clapham Junction Est.
SW9
28s/Poverty Driven Children - Angell Town
Poverty Driven Children Cliques - OC/PIF/MZ/RSG/CFR
Stockwell Man Dem - Stockwell Park
SW11
Surrey Lane Man Dem - Surrey Lane Est. Battersea
Winstanley Estate Man Dem - Winstanley Est. Battersea
SW16
Streatham Man Dem - Ice Rink Area
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
SW17
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
Tooting Boyz - Tooting
SW18
Strictly Muslim Soldiers - SMS
Wandsworth Terrorzone
SW20
Blenheim 28s
Raynes Park Tamils - Raynes Park
East London (Hackney, Newham, Tower Hamlets & Waltham Forest)
EC1
Whitecross Boys - Whitecross Estate
E1
Brick Lane Massive - Brick Lane Whitechapel
Cannon Street Posse - Cannon Street
Shadwell Massive - Solander Gardens
Stepney Posse - Ocean Estate & Stepney Green
E2
Bengal Tigers - (W) of Vallance Road
Bethnal Green Somalians - (S) B.Green
Haggerston Man Dem - Fellows Court
E3
Devons Road Kruisers - Devons Estate
E3 Massive - South Bow
Elton Man Dem - (S) of Victoria Park
E4
Chingford Hall Man Dem - Chingford Hall
Hatch Man Dem - Chingford Hatch
E5
E5TH Ridaz - Lower Clapton & Gilpin Sq
Mothers Sq Boys - MSq. Hackney Downs
Knightingdale Youts - Knightingdale Est.
P-Block - Pembury & Clapton Sq.
Springfield man Dem - Webb & Fawcett Est.
E6
Beckton Man Dem - Windsor Park
JC Boyz - Custom House
E7
Blackwater Man Dem - Blackwater Est. FG
Forest Gate Man Dem - S. Forest Gate
E8
Evelyn Court Man Dem - Hackney Downs
HFC - Haggerston & Fields
Hindle House Tugz - Dalston Central
Holly Street Boys - Holly Street Est.
London Field Boys - Fields Estate
Queensbridge - Kingsland
E9
E9ERS - Homerton & Ballance
Kingsmead - Kingsmead Way
Trowbridge - Hackney Wick
Well Street Boys - South Hackney
E10
Beaumont Man Dem - Beaumont Road
OC Boys - Oliver Close
E11
Cathall Tugz - Cathall
Fatch man Dem - Fatch Ho.
Hillbridge Boyz - Hillbridge Twr
Leytonstone Man Dem - L/Stone Clicks
E12
Manor Park Souljahs - Manor Park
Paki Panthers (Also E10/E11/E17)
Tamil Tigers - Manor Park
E13
Plaistow Man Dem - Plaistow & P.New Road (E15)
E14
Bartlett Park Crew - Bartlett Park Est.
Limhouse Massive - Locksley Est.
Wilehouse Man Dem - Limehouse Fields Est.
E15
Alma Tugz - Maryland
L.O.S. - Lords of Stratford
Stratford Man Dem - Stratford Central
E16
Canning Town Man Dem
Jeeperz - Canning Town
E17
Barrier Youts - Upper Walthamstow
Boundary Crew - Burrell & Rayners Estate
Priory Court Boys - Highams Hill
Walthamstow Drive Boys - Upper Walthamstow
Walthamstow Tamils - Walthamstow Central
North London (Barnet, Enfield, Hackney, Haringey & Islington)
N1
De Beauvoir Twn Man Dem - Hackney Side
Hoxton Boys/Love of Money - Hoxton Ests.
Murray Grove Boyz - Murray Grove
Popham Estate Boyz - Popham Ests.
N4
Blue City/Queens Drive - Hackney Sides
Finsbury Park Man Dem - Six Acres Est.
Holly Park Boyz - Holly Prk Est.
Manor House Boyz - Woodberry Downs
N5
Highbury Grove Boyz - Highbury Grove Est.
N7
Holloway Man Dem - Islington
Romford Man Dem - Islington
Tufnell Park - Islington
N8
Busy Blocks - Hornsey
Chettle Court Boys - Hornsey
Hornsey Bloodz - Hornsey
Hornsey Man Dem - Hornsey
New Land Estate Boyz - Hornsey
Stationers Park - Hornsey
N9
Edmonton Man Dem - Edmonton Green/L. Edmonton
Fore Street Boyz - Fore Street N9/N18
Shanktown - N9
N15
Craven Park Manz - South Totti
Edgecott Boyz - South Totti
Ferry Lane Man Dem - South Totti
IDA Boyz - South Totti
Stonebridge Manz - South Totti
Tiverton Man Dem - South Totti
Tottenham Lost Souls - South Totti
TMD/Northstar - Totti Twn
N16
Bombers - Turks, H-Twn
Kurdish Bulldogs
L.O.R.D - Stokey
L.O.S - Stokey
Shakespeare Man Dem
Stamford Hill Man Dem
N17
Chestnut Boyz - Chestnut Est.
Evastrap Yard Manz - Bruce Grove
Farm Boyz - Broadwater
F.I.R.M - Tottenham
NPK - Northumberland Park
Scotland Green Boyz - SG Est.
Tottenham Ghetto Thugs
N18
Fore Street Boyz - Joyce Ave/Snells Prk Endz
Redbrick Crew - Klinger Est
N19
Archway Man Dem - Islington
N22
North London Somalians - Duccets Common
Rampage Boyz - Wood Green
Wood Green MOB - Wood Green
Outer London (Outside of London Postcode Areas)
African Devils - Redbridge, IG
Dem Twisted Soldiers - Croydon, CR
Ilford Top Criminals - Redbridge, IG
Ill Town Man Dem - Redbridge, IG
Ministry of Darkness - Redbridge, IG
Southall Mali Soldiers - Ealing, UB
Terrorzone - Croydon, CR
Thornton Heath Man Dem - Croydon, CR
Til Death Youts - Croydon, CR
West London Malis - Hounslow, TW
Tamil Groups
Ariyala Tamils- Brent, HA
Copley Close Tamils - Ealing, W
Croydon Tamils - Croydon, CR
East Side Tamils - Newham, E
Raynes Park Tamils - Merton, SW
Red Line Tamils - Brent, HA
Tamil Tigers - Newham, E
Valvettihurai VVT - Brent HA
Walthamstow Tamils - Waltham Forest, E
Wembley Boys - Brent, HA
Turkish and Kurdish Groups
Angry Turks - Haringey
Bombers - Hackney
Holloway Kurdz - Islington
Istanbul Youth - Haringey
Kurdish Bull Dogs - Brent, Haringey
PKK - Enfield/Haringey
Rowdy Kurdz - Haringey
Small Village Kurdz - Haringey
Smilerz - Haringey
Snooker Boys - Haringey
Tottenham Boys - Haringey
Tottenham Kurdz - Haringey
WHL Turks - Haringey
youger gangs
SOUTH LONDON
38s - Younger Younger Brixton Youts
DTS Dem Twisted Soldiers - Thornton Heath
ALC Acre Lane Campaign - Clapham/Brixton
Baghdad Young Ones - SW9
DGM Dirty Gip Mob - SE25
DSC Dirty South Criminals
DST Dirty South Terrors - Tooting
DTM - SE16
KMT - SE6
LDSD - SE20
MDSD Mayday Sprayday - Lambeth
OTB Out to Ball - Southwark
New Park Gz - Lambeth
SMN - SE20
SEE Str8 Eat Em - Streatham
SFS Str8 From Souf - Southwark
SW So What - Lambeth
TFS - Bermondsey
TOC - SW
YFE Young Fully Equipped- SW4
YT Young Tugz - SE1
PDC Bratz - Lambeth
Gypset - Lambeth/Croydon
Bloodset - SW9
Cripset - SW9
KTH Kids on The Hill - SW2
OC Organised Criminals - SW9
A-Town Bandits - Angell Town
NHB Never Hold Back - Streatham
AB - SE18
Heatmakers - SE18
MAG/ADD/GAT/SSG/MDC/PTS/DWT - all Lambeth & Southwark
YBR - Camberwell
ATS - Streatham
BDC - CR4
THB - SW2
Tower Blocks
2Gully Crew
Gypset Taliban
Dogg Pound
2SF - SE25
DPC - SW16
MAD - SE15
Chosen Ones
Pollards Hill Mandem
DTK - SW2
RMS/VSS/ICE - SW16
SUK - Stickem up Kidz, Souths Under Kontrol
OSA
Green Gang
LMD - Thornton Heath
Clapham Up Clan
Full Force
WPSH - SW18
North & Northwest London
MLZ Movement Lords - Haringey
NL Northern Liners - Tottenham
NC North Camp - N22
RBS Rampage Boys - N22
Fanatiks Kru
Venom Kru - Tottenham
TT Tiny Terrors - Haringey
NSF North Side Family - Wood Green
ANM Animaniacs - Wood Green
G-Fam
Outlaw Fam - Hornsey
Unlimited Impact
Murkage Camp
Looney Tunez - N22
MIT -N22
Shoddy Kru - N17
LMD Lick Man Down - N8
Cold Society - Haringey
N8 Youngas
Small Soldiers - Tottenham
ColdBloodedCrew - Edmonton
Shanktown/MT - Edmonton
Heavyweight Mandem - Edmonton
CCK - Edmonton
DMC Dominant Crew - Edmonton
DGM the Goonsta Mandem - Edmonton
Lethal Dynasty Crew - Edmonton
15th Family
Commerce Road Boys - WG
Formation Squad - Edmonton
Too Much Talent - Tottenham
Edgecot/Suffolk/Twyford Goonez - Tottenham
TTO - N16
Strap City - N18
Young Militant Somalians - WG
Born Tugz - N18
Burbridge Boys - N17
Montague Mandem - Edmonton
E-Block - Brent
UGA Ull Get Aggied/Underground Attack Brent
Out To Terrorise
Strictly Northwest
Badminded Military - N7
Dark Element Man Dem - N19/N9
Most Wanted Crew/Boydem Most Wanted - Edmonton
Bun Dem Crew - N17
Y&R Finsbury
Y.SLK
6FU
East London(youngens)
Fullklip - Broadmead Est.
Sinister Characters - Newham
Genisis & Exodus - Newham
Take Over Network - Newham
Murk Squad - Hackney
Eastbury Terrorz - W.Forest
Brix Kings - W.Forest
Corrosive Camp - Hackney
RKC Raw Kid Camp
Recklass Squad
Reload Bang Bang
MRB E6/12
DM Drive
Mucky Cubz - E3
Erlham Grove Boys - E7
Jubilee Street Massive - E1
Blacked Out Soldiers - E17
Young Beckton Soldiers
Dirty Demons
Asian Virus
Yunga Ministry
Younga Wolfpack
Larver Kids
Stinghall
Coppermill Tugz
Black Murda Mobb
Black Mobb
YMM Younga Money Makers
Fullklip - Broadmead Est.
Sinister Characters - Newham
Genisis & Exodus - Newham
Take Over Network - Newham
Murk Squad - Hackney
Eastbury Terrorz - W.Forest
Brix Kings - W.Forest
Corrosive Camp - Hackney
RKC Raw Kid Camp
Recklass Squad
Reload Bang Bang
MRB E6/12
DM Drive
Mucky Cubz - E3
Erlham Grove Boys - E7
Jubilee Street Massive - E1
Blacked Out Soldiers - E17
Young Beckton Soldiers
Dirty Demons
Asian Virus
Yunga Ministry
Younga Wolfpack
Larver Kids
Stinghall
Coppermill Tugz
Black Murda Mobb
Black Mobb
YMM Younga Money Makers
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- Middle Weight
- Posts: 564
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- Location: Florida
im not talkin about the american rap groupslooneytunes1 wrote:D-Block - Evelyn Est.
Ghetto Boys - Milton Ct. Est.
^those are rap groups lol
there is 1 of the gangs tho that have members who now rap. thats pdc - poverty driven children. it has been a gang in brixton, south london. for years but some have turned to rap. some of the london eds on this site will know more. i don't know too much about gangs down them endz.
"- PDC, originally Peel Dem Crew became a music based group using various descriptions for PDC the most common being Poverty Driven Children. Others include Pray Days Change and Please Dont Cry. There are a large number of young groups aligning themselves with the PDC in Lambeth today. Amongst those are Organised Criminals, Baghdad Young Ones, Bloodset and 031. The groups are all predominant in the SW9 area (Brixton)."
http://pic2.piczo.com/gangsinlondon/?g=13891560&cr=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oaBm-fNE4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXCuxNga6as
You can find PDC easy on myspace or youtube - many London groups/crews/gangs have a music side - it is difficult to tease apart what is what and probs a pain for the authorities too he he - PDC claim to be a community and music ting, but many many of thier number are on a full on gang tip - and PDC are big by London standards. Here in East Endz (PDC South/Brixton endz) many crews have a music flex as a part of thier identity - like Fields Man have links to peeps like Tricky and Totti Man to Northstar - many many like that - some would say that the music thing is a smokescreen to hide gang activity, but the truth is, its all the same thing.
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- Straw Weight
- Posts: 47
- Joined: July 13th, 2006, 7:03 am
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/crime/p ... 078528.htm
shooting in harehills other day,
heads r sayin he was a yardie dealer
shooting in harehills other day,
heads r sayin he was a yardie dealer
This thing just keeps coming back eh.....I can't understand this crip copycat business - I mean NYC has been infected by the copycat colours ish and only a couple of years ago, London had no copycat groups like that - I said on here one time that there would be no copycat c's or b's in London town....but the little youts just wanna be and follow the hype flex to the max.
I've heard of Bloodset in Brixton also - but these are younga crews, 13/14year old youts coming out of more established teams or on thier own hype.
I know theres many serious mandem in Newham sides for real, but i cant get down with this copycat thing.
I've heard of Bloodset in Brixton also - but these are younga crews, 13/14year old youts coming out of more established teams or on thier own hype.
I know theres many serious mandem in Newham sides for real, but i cant get down with this copycat thing.
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- Straw Weight
- Posts: 47
- Joined: July 13th, 2006, 7:03 am
I'll still hold out that the copycat thing is little youths on a hype - and that those lil' wannabe groups will fade just as soon as those young teens move on a bit.
Back in London Borough of Newham, there are some nasty & grimy areas - I'm thinking Canning Town, Custom House and Silvertown and bits of Beckton, West Ham, East Ham and Upton Park. Recently in Canning Town bits, a young father was shot at point blank by a local gang on his doorstep, can't remember their name though, after standing up for himself and family following daily harrassement. The gang had also slashed the boys face from ear to ear a few months earlier. Those bits still have those grimy white cockney types living thier, old crime families and the likes, who are on that hardman thing for sure (Same vibe as Bermondsey).
Back in London Borough of Newham, there are some nasty & grimy areas - I'm thinking Canning Town, Custom House and Silvertown and bits of Beckton, West Ham, East Ham and Upton Park. Recently in Canning Town bits, a young father was shot at point blank by a local gang on his doorstep, can't remember their name though, after standing up for himself and family following daily harrassement. The gang had also slashed the boys face from ear to ear a few months earlier. Those bits still have those grimy white cockney types living thier, old crime families and the likes, who are on that hardman thing for sure (Same vibe as Bermondsey).
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ye thts wot i was thinkin, went off by accident or sumat, they sed it was a powerful weapon init wonder wot it was?Noog wrote:But the saddest part is that it looks like the girl was shot by her own 16 yaer old brother - my guess is he was jammin with a local crew and just got hold of a gun and was showing off and shot his sister by mistake, utter tragic foolishness.
Ross Kemp - Teenage Street Gangs of South London
pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6jVIaI ... ed&search=
pt.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4-7gYne ... ed&search=
pt.3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XPx5te6L4I
pt.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TMRGJVSMr8
pt.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fonjMEaKw
pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc6jVIaI ... ed&search=
pt.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4-7gYne ... ed&search=
pt.3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XPx5te6L4I
pt.4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TMRGJVSMr8
pt.5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fonjMEaKw
if u mean dangerous as in stupid, yea, they'll b so wannab and prove themself as a "real" G and go do sum crime in broad daylight in front of 10 million cameras and go to jail for rest of life.realest wrote:its funny there are copycats such as Cripz n Bloodz in london and all dese yungerz n oldaz wanna be like them i think the wannabe Bloodz or Cripz are more dangerous as they will kill or hurt someone like the real Bloodz or Cripz so wannabes are more DANGEROUS thts how i see it.
if they that dumb to copy crips and bloods they deserve to go behind bars
Theres a small group of 'South London Crips' talking with Ross Kemp on episode 4, but to me they look like any batch of mandem all across London - they are no different from any mandem - teens/early 20's - apart from wearing blue bandanas over their faces, thats it. But those 'Crips' have no history. They couldn't come up against PDC or if over theses East sides couldn't come up against Fieldz or any more established Hackney clique. They are a bunch of wannabe mandem who've lost the London ting to media hype!
Anyhow, away from CopyCatBritCrip things (the CCBC for short), heres some real Brit news
Man survived 12 shots at close range, trial told
Paul Lewis
Friday April 27, 2007
The Guardian
A man who survived being shot 12 times, including twice in the face, yesterday told a court of the "crazy" attack that left him "near enough dead".
Tony Woodbridge, who was left paralysed for life and still has seven bullets inside him, appeared before an Old Bailey jury in a wheelchair to give evidence in the trial of his childhood friend for attempted murder.
Mr Woodbridge, 27, described how he felt his legs give way after a bullet fired at point-blank range entered his stomach. He said it was only his will to survive that saw him get through the ordeal after doctors reconstructed his shattered face.
Mr Woodbridge's intestines were "blown away", he lost many of his teeth and his spine was shattered by five shots, the court heard, after an attack by two gunmen in Kennington, south London.
Leon Russell, 24, a former friend of Mr Woodbridge who attended the same Clapham primary school as the victim, denies attempted murder and possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life. A second suspect - Sean Sutton, 26 - is still on the run from police, the court was told.
Brendan Kelly, prosecuting, said Mr Woodbridge was shot in September last year at about 9pm as he walked from his mother and younger sisters' house to buy cannabis from a nearby address. He was ambushed by two gunmen who frog-marched him to a waiting silver car.
He had seen the gunmen only the day before, the court heard, and they had given him a lift to do some food shopping.
However, on the day of the shooting the pair wanted information from Mr Woodbridge about the whereabouts of a friend. With a gun pointed to his head, Mr Woodbridge was told: "If you do as you're told you will live." But the jury heard he fought back against the two men.
"I just thought to myself 'I'm not getting in this car' and then it all kicked off," Mr Woodbridge said. "Sean slapped the gun in my eye, I was looking over to Leon because he was my friend. I tried to grab the gun off him and there was a struggle."
Mr Sutton shot him once in the leg, then Mr Woodbridge turned back to look at his friend, who opened fire, the court heard. "I saw sparks come from the gun, I saw sparks in my belly, then my legs went from beneath me. I knew I was paralysed straight away."
As he lay on the floor, helpless, he was shot in the face twice, then repeatedly shot in his back, legs and arms, the court heard. He woke up in hospital three days later.
Mr Russell, also known as Twin, from Brixton Hill, south London, had called Mr Woodbridge hours before the shooting to tell him he had fallen out with a friend and wanted to know where he lived. Mr Woodbridge told the court: "My friend took his chain and some money off him on the same day he shot me. He wanted to know where he lived, but I said I was nothing to do with it and that was the last thing I heard." The trial continues.
Man survived 12 shots at close range, trial told
Paul Lewis
Friday April 27, 2007
The Guardian
A man who survived being shot 12 times, including twice in the face, yesterday told a court of the "crazy" attack that left him "near enough dead".
Tony Woodbridge, who was left paralysed for life and still has seven bullets inside him, appeared before an Old Bailey jury in a wheelchair to give evidence in the trial of his childhood friend for attempted murder.
Mr Woodbridge, 27, described how he felt his legs give way after a bullet fired at point-blank range entered his stomach. He said it was only his will to survive that saw him get through the ordeal after doctors reconstructed his shattered face.
Mr Woodbridge's intestines were "blown away", he lost many of his teeth and his spine was shattered by five shots, the court heard, after an attack by two gunmen in Kennington, south London.
Leon Russell, 24, a former friend of Mr Woodbridge who attended the same Clapham primary school as the victim, denies attempted murder and possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life. A second suspect - Sean Sutton, 26 - is still on the run from police, the court was told.
Brendan Kelly, prosecuting, said Mr Woodbridge was shot in September last year at about 9pm as he walked from his mother and younger sisters' house to buy cannabis from a nearby address. He was ambushed by two gunmen who frog-marched him to a waiting silver car.
He had seen the gunmen only the day before, the court heard, and they had given him a lift to do some food shopping.
However, on the day of the shooting the pair wanted information from Mr Woodbridge about the whereabouts of a friend. With a gun pointed to his head, Mr Woodbridge was told: "If you do as you're told you will live." But the jury heard he fought back against the two men.
"I just thought to myself 'I'm not getting in this car' and then it all kicked off," Mr Woodbridge said. "Sean slapped the gun in my eye, I was looking over to Leon because he was my friend. I tried to grab the gun off him and there was a struggle."
Mr Sutton shot him once in the leg, then Mr Woodbridge turned back to look at his friend, who opened fire, the court heard. "I saw sparks come from the gun, I saw sparks in my belly, then my legs went from beneath me. I knew I was paralysed straight away."
As he lay on the floor, helpless, he was shot in the face twice, then repeatedly shot in his back, legs and arms, the court heard. He woke up in hospital three days later.
Mr Russell, also known as Twin, from Brixton Hill, south London, had called Mr Woodbridge hours before the shooting to tell him he had fallen out with a friend and wanted to know where he lived. Mr Woodbridge told the court: "My friend took his chain and some money off him on the same day he shot me. He wanted to know where he lived, but I said I was nothing to do with it and that was the last thing I heard." The trial continues.
And another story of late from Manchester - about boys from a gang called Doddington busting into a Salford Mob pub (Doddington are a very established mainly black streetgang - one of the groups peeps from LA met with back in the early 90's after the peace treaties in LA. The Salford Mob are mainly old school white Manchester gangsters/crime families)
Pair get life for ordering pub assassination attempt
· 'Black Widow' was spotter for attack in packed bar
· Drinkers killed hitmen after gun jammed
Helen Carter
Wednesday May 9, 2007
The Guardian
A woman nicknamed the Black Widow and a Manchester gangster were jailed for life yesterday for ordering a contract killing in a packed pub which led to the hitmen being shot dead by people in the pub.
When Richard Austin, 19, and Carlton Alveranga, 20 - part of Moss Side's Doddington gang - burst into the Brass Handles pub one Sunday afternoon in March 2006 there was a large crowd watching a Manchester United match. The gunmen, both masked, approached the table where the target, David Totton, was sitting.
The attempted assassination had been arranged by senior Doddington gang member Ian McLeod and his sidekick Constance Howarth, who was sitting at another table in the Salford pub, apparently sending innocuous text messages, but acting as a spotter. When the would-be killers burst in, she walked into the ladies toilet and slipped away as chaos broke out.
Austin fired six shots, but Alveranga's 9mm handgun jammed and the pair were disarmed by people in the pub who then shot them with their weapons. Another drinker, Aaron Travers, suffered gunshot wounds to his chest, but survived, as did Totton. The hitmen staggered outside and were beaten as they lay dying. McLeod was outside in his Ford Mondeo. "Is he dead?" he shouted, before running over to one of the men, then driving off.
CCTV footage of the events of March 12 2006 disappeared. The pub was closed by Greater Manchester Police, but no one has been arrested or charged with the deaths.
Howarth, 38, said she was an administrator for the PMS security firm, but she supplied guns to gang members. She was convicted last month at Preston crown court of conspiracy to murder with McLeod, 42.
McLeod, who ran IMAC Security, was ordered to serve a minimum of 21 years. He had previously served 10 years for drug dealing. Sentencing the pair at Manchester crown court yesterday, Mr Justice Andrew Smith said: "Two men died, they were not innocents, but they were young, their lives were not expendable. In view of the calculating nature of this offence, I consider there is every danger you are incorrigibly involved in violent crime. You will always present a danger to the public."
He said Howarth should serve a minimum of 20 years. A third man, Bobby Spiers, is wanted in connection with the conspiracy but is believed to have fled to Spain. An international arrest warrant is open for him.
The trial heard a statement from Austin's mother, Bridget, telling how she had feared her son was becoming embroiled in gangs and gun crime. She said gangs were a way of life in Moss Side.
Howarth had a track record of involvement in organised crime. In 1998 she was jailed for five years, with Glasgow's "Mr Big" Paul Ferris, for trafficking guns, after police stopped her car as she was driving back from London and found three submachine-guns and silencers in the boot.
The Manchester court heard that the Salford hit had been arranged by McLeod and Howarth on the orders of another man. The motivation was the apparent loss of face suffered by Spiers after a petty dispute with Totton over admission to a nightclub, the court was told.
Detective Superintendent Andy Tattersall, of Greater Manchester Police, who led the inquiry, said: "This is a significant conviction. McLeod is an influential character within the underworld of Manchester and Moss Side. He recruited those boys and planned an execution. It's because of him they died. He used his influence to do his dirty work. He is a very, very dangerous man."
Pair get life for ordering pub assassination attempt
· 'Black Widow' was spotter for attack in packed bar
· Drinkers killed hitmen after gun jammed
Helen Carter
Wednesday May 9, 2007
The Guardian
A woman nicknamed the Black Widow and a Manchester gangster were jailed for life yesterday for ordering a contract killing in a packed pub which led to the hitmen being shot dead by people in the pub.
When Richard Austin, 19, and Carlton Alveranga, 20 - part of Moss Side's Doddington gang - burst into the Brass Handles pub one Sunday afternoon in March 2006 there was a large crowd watching a Manchester United match. The gunmen, both masked, approached the table where the target, David Totton, was sitting.
The attempted assassination had been arranged by senior Doddington gang member Ian McLeod and his sidekick Constance Howarth, who was sitting at another table in the Salford pub, apparently sending innocuous text messages, but acting as a spotter. When the would-be killers burst in, she walked into the ladies toilet and slipped away as chaos broke out.
Austin fired six shots, but Alveranga's 9mm handgun jammed and the pair were disarmed by people in the pub who then shot them with their weapons. Another drinker, Aaron Travers, suffered gunshot wounds to his chest, but survived, as did Totton. The hitmen staggered outside and were beaten as they lay dying. McLeod was outside in his Ford Mondeo. "Is he dead?" he shouted, before running over to one of the men, then driving off.
CCTV footage of the events of March 12 2006 disappeared. The pub was closed by Greater Manchester Police, but no one has been arrested or charged with the deaths.
Howarth, 38, said she was an administrator for the PMS security firm, but she supplied guns to gang members. She was convicted last month at Preston crown court of conspiracy to murder with McLeod, 42.
McLeod, who ran IMAC Security, was ordered to serve a minimum of 21 years. He had previously served 10 years for drug dealing. Sentencing the pair at Manchester crown court yesterday, Mr Justice Andrew Smith said: "Two men died, they were not innocents, but they were young, their lives were not expendable. In view of the calculating nature of this offence, I consider there is every danger you are incorrigibly involved in violent crime. You will always present a danger to the public."
He said Howarth should serve a minimum of 20 years. A third man, Bobby Spiers, is wanted in connection with the conspiracy but is believed to have fled to Spain. An international arrest warrant is open for him.
The trial heard a statement from Austin's mother, Bridget, telling how she had feared her son was becoming embroiled in gangs and gun crime. She said gangs were a way of life in Moss Side.
Howarth had a track record of involvement in organised crime. In 1998 she was jailed for five years, with Glasgow's "Mr Big" Paul Ferris, for trafficking guns, after police stopped her car as she was driving back from London and found three submachine-guns and silencers in the boot.
The Manchester court heard that the Salford hit had been arranged by McLeod and Howarth on the orders of another man. The motivation was the apparent loss of face suffered by Spiers after a petty dispute with Totton over admission to a nightclub, the court was told.
Detective Superintendent Andy Tattersall, of Greater Manchester Police, who led the inquiry, said: "This is a significant conviction. McLeod is an influential character within the underworld of Manchester and Moss Side. He recruited those boys and planned an execution. It's because of him they died. He used his influence to do his dirty work. He is a very, very dangerous man."
Man what the fuck has happened to streegangs forum??? Ive been away 10months and it looks as though this place been invaded by aliens, teens and pre-teens the amount shit thats posted on here now???
England streetgang activity in that time has become much more of a public "conern" as can be seen by the explosion of media reference to the subject in recent months and the things that have happened across London mainly.
The yanks still not buying it? Nothing new there if so, the only thing this forum (after browsing around its new haphazard set up) seems good for now (to me) is a source of information that is harder to extract than a shag from a nun
England streetgang activity in that time has become much more of a public "conern" as can be seen by the explosion of media reference to the subject in recent months and the things that have happened across London mainly.
The yanks still not buying it? Nothing new there if so, the only thing this forum (after browsing around its new haphazard set up) seems good for now (to me) is a source of information that is harder to extract than a shag from a nun