Are Italians considered to be white?

[yardstick]

I'm a little sceptical about all this "Italians weren't always considered white" or "Irish weren't always considered white" concept. I've read old books that spoke of Italians as white, Irish as white. I think it was just some WASPs were snobby towards foreigners.

About the Irish (and Scots)-

The Nords and Anglo-Saxons, considered them to be a separate "race" from the Germanic peoples, since they came from a different ethnic background (Gaelic) As funny as this sounds, they were often called the "Green Race" by Germanic peoples, while Germanic people considered themselves to be "white." That attitude was even carried over into the new world way later, when the Irish and Scots came to the US in large numbers (1800's?). The Americans of Germanic heritage would sometimes call the Irish and Scottish immigrants "Green Niggers." Supposedly, the descriptive racial term "green" came from the fact that the Vikings, Anglos, and Saxons, perceived the skin of the Gaels as extremely pale, and almost green-like, in comparison to the Germanic peoples skin.

Funny, just learned this from a friend this week, who is half Irish and half Mexican! Don't know if that is true. I asked him if he considered Irish to be white, and he said yes. His reason was that most people of Irish heritage share the same life experiences and world views, that the people of the other white ethnicities have. (except in North Ireland, for obvious reasons).

This is all speaking in regards to the indigenous Irish peoples, and their diaspora. Because today, when a person says they are Irish, they may have come from a non-Gaelic ethnicity (African-Irish, Indian-Irish, Anglo-Irish, Spanish-Irish, etc...).

[yardstick]

It's optional but if you don't choose an ethnicity they'll just make an assumption based on your last name. So if your a Mexican with an Irish or Italian last name (yes, they do exist) or a black American with an upper crusty WASP sounding name it's in your best interest to identify yourself race/athnicity.

HAHAH..that's like that dude I was talking about. He looks more Mexican that Irish, but he has a "white" last name. He said his last name is an anglicized version of a Gaelic name.

[whiskeyjack]

On and on with the balkans...we are talking aboout what is considered white in the Americas partiularly the United States and Canada. Here in N. America the preiemminent power and white power of the world you are white...even though it is a purely political title since Slavs are still looked down on somewhat, you are...and even you accept it and buy into the system.

polish jokes anyone?

[whiskeyjack]

like my group of friends the majority are either french or italian and whoever else thats like me who isnt french or italian. But were swimming in them lol.... The funny thing is, yes its true that we buy in the system and i hear polish jokes all the time and they do favour themselves over people like me.... its make me wonder where us eastern european descent folks would be if ww2 hadnt happened : /

Were not as bad like the states as dobre is putting it, but we are kinda on the same level...

[MMRbkaRudog]

lol anyone who things italians are White is a moron you can clearly see they have more in common with those turks and arabs then a European

How do they have more in common w/TURKS & ARABS, than their own kind (Europeans)? Where are you from? Some times it seems like you don't even know English in some of your posts.

[MMRbkaRudog]

italians are of the semetic ppls aka the middle eastern eg jew arab turk etc
if you stand saddam hussien next to some italian guy and an indian you would think they were all brothers they look the same they are the same height 5.2 and they have the same cultures kindo.

whites are taller then the average italian of greek [ same thing really] averge white man stands at 6.4

Be kool, stay in school

[Azure9920]

italians are of the semetic ppls aka the middle eastern eg jew arab turk etc
if you stand saddam hussien next to some italian guy and an indian you would think they were all brothers they look the same they are the same height 5.2 and they have the same cultures kindo.

whites are taller then the average italian of greek [ same thing really] averge white man stands at 6.4

LOL, Italians aren't semetic you idiot.

[Silencioso]

then what are they moron cause they aren't white like me!

What's this "white like me" sh*t? It cracks me up how anglo-saxon and other germanic types think they're the arbitrators of whiteness. Like you get to say who is and isn't white. Italians are European Caucasoid people, mostly mediteranean and some indo-european ancestry. They have pale, tan or olive complexions generally. That sounds white to me.

[Sentenza]

then what are they moron cause they aren't white like me!

What's this "white like me" sh*t? It cracks me up how anglo-saxon and other germanic types think they're the arbitrators of whiteness. Like you get to say who is and isn't white. Italians are European Caucasoid people, mostly mediteranean and some indo-european ancestry. They have pale, tan or olive complexions generally. That sounds white to me.

lol tanned and olive skin isn't white stupid thats why they are tanned and olive skinnned why do italians want to be white so bad anyway they are arabic they should be proud of it same with the other mediteranean people ask anyone with a brain if they think italians are white and they will say " no "

Really? This is the long time Cosa Nostra Mafia Boss Bernardo Provenzano. Tell me if you think he looks like an Arab. And he is sicilian.



Or what about the ex coach of the Italian Soccer team?



http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Trapattoni

And i can show you Italians who look like Arabs. Only tells us one thing: They mixed, just like everyone else.

[Silencioso]

Yeah, well, Pink, peach and red (typical Northern Euro skin tones) aren't white either, if you want to nit pick.

I think it's understood that "white" as a term of skin color basically means "light" not literally albino white. As a race term "white" means Europeans and other unmixed Caucasoid people. Italians qualify as "white" by both definitions.

Don't be jealous just 'cause they can get a tan without risking 3rd degree burns from the sun> LOL

[perongregory]

God, be quiet.

[MMRbkaRudog]

A Skolly, I got a super tan today! I am now African-American! JK Soembody please ban this troll!

[Azure9920]

Combined data from two large mtDNA studies provides an estimate of non-Caucasoid maternal ancestry in Italians. The first study sampled 411 Italians from all over the country and found five South Asian M and East Asian D sequences (1.2%) and eight sub-Saharan African L sequences (1.9%). The second study sampled 465 Sicilians and detected ten M sequences (2.2%) and three L sequences (0.65%). This makes a total of 3% non-white maternal admixture (1.3% Asian and 1.7% African), which is very low and typical for European populations, since Pliss et al. 2005, e.g., observed 1.8% Asian admixture in Poles and 1.2% African admixture in Germans.


Plaza et al. (2003) Joining the Pillars of Hercules: mtDNA Sequences Show Multidirectional Gene Flow in the Western Mediterranean. Ann Hum Genet; 67:312

Similar data from the Y-chromosome reveals Italians' even lower non-Caucasoid paternal admixture. Both studies obtained samples from all over the mainland and islands. No Asian DNA was detected anywhere, but a single sub-Saharan African E(xE3b) sequence was found in the first study's sample of 416 (0.2%), and six were observed in the second study's sample of 746 (0.8%). The total is therefore a minuscule 0.6%, which decreases to 0.4% if only Southern Italians are considered and 0% if only Sicilians are considered. Again, these are normal levels of admixture for European populations (e.g. Austrians were found to have 0.8% E(xE3b) by Brion et al. 2004).

Semino et al. (2004) Origin, Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area. Am J Hum Genet; 74:1023-1034

Two subclades of North African Y-chromosome haplogroup E3b (labeled E-M81 and E-M78β) have been given an estimated age of ~5000 years, making them useful in detecting historical admixture from Berbers. These markers exist at combined frequencies of 1.5% in Northern Italians, 2.2% in Central Italians, 0% in Southern Italians, 1.4% in Sardinians and 1.4% in Sicilians. Additionally, North African mtDNA haplogroup U6 occurs at a rate of 0.6% in Sicilians and is absent everywhere else in Italy (Plaza et al. 2003). This suggests that gene flow from Carthaginian and Moorish colonists was minimal.

Cruciani et al. (2004) Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out of Africa. Am J Hum Genet; 74:1014-1022

[Trevier]

*shameless bump*

Of course they're considered to be racially White.

[choppalou]

dumbest question i have ever heard!

no they think they are black!

of course they are white!