No More Mafia?

Unread post by **Coup** » January 20th, 2011, 12:56 pm

You read on here and you think they are gone. That is not the case, even though most of these guys are old as hell.

FBI targets mob in major sweep
By David Ariosto, CNN
January 20, 2011 2:22 p.m. EST

Federal agents make arrests in raids Thursday morning in a Brooklyn, New York, neighborhood.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Prosecutors ID 15 people with alleged mob ties who were longshoremen's union officials
91 members and associates, including one in Italy, charged with federal crimes
36 suspects were charged for their roles in the alleged criminal activity
It's one of the largest single-day FBI operations against the Mafia

RELATED TOPICS
Organized Crime
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Eric Holder

New York (CNN) -- In one of the largest single-day operations against the Mafia in FBI history, federal agents working with local law enforcement fanned out across Italy, New York, New Jersey and Rhode Island on Thursday to arrest 127 people, officials said.
Alleged members from the five prominent New York families -- the Gambino, Colombo, Bonanno, Genovese and Lucchese families -- were arrested, receiving 16 indictments in four judicial districts, Attorney General Eric Holder said during a news conference in New York.
"Today's arrests and charges mark an important step forward in disrupting La Cosa Nostra's illegal activities," he said.
Ninety-one members and their associates, including one in Italy, were charged with federal crimes that include conspiracy, arson, extortion, narcotics trafficking, illegal gambling, labor racketeering and murders that date back as far as 1981, according to a U.S. Justice Department statement.
An additional 36 suspects were charged for their roles in the alleged criminal activity, the statement said.
About 110 people, including several high-ranking members, were already in custody, Holder added, describing the raid as the largest single-day operation against the notorious La Cosa Nostra crime family network.

"Some allegations involve classic mob hits to eliminate perceived rivals," Holder told reporters. "Others involve senseless murders."
He described two murder victims who were allegedly killed in a public bar in a dispute over a spilled drink.
Members of the New England Patriarca family and New Jersey-based Decavalcante family also are accused of related federal crimes, the statement said.
Television images showed several men handcuffed and hand-checked by federal agents -- an apparent part of the "unprecedented" 800-person task force involved in Thursday's sweep.

The raid comes amid concerns about a possible resurgence of organized crime despite a scattered history of defections, beginning with the acting crime boss of the Lucchese family, Alphonse D'Arco, who admitted to "cooperating with the federal government" starting in 1991.
Gambino family underboss Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano also defected in 1991, providing testimony -- in exchange for a reduced sentence -- that ultimately led to the conviction of the infamous Gambino kingpin John Gotti.

Nicknamed the "Teflon Don" because prosecutors had trouble making charges against him stick, Gotti died of throat cancer in prison in 2002.
Last April, 14 members of the Gambino crime family -- including Daniel Marino, who was then considered the family head -- pleaded guilty to charges that included murder, racketeering, extortion and prostitution of minors, court officials said.
Thursday's sweep does away with "the myth" of the mob as a thing of the past and a widely held notion that "La Cosa Nostra is a shell of its former self," said Janice Fedarcyk, assistant director in charge of the FBI's New York Division.

"I think we made a serious dent today," Fedarcyk said, but she warned of a new generation of criminal leadership "coming up behind them."
The mob revival concept, however, is the subject of debate.
"Their leadership ranks have been battered by federal and local law enforcement over the years," said James B. Jacobs, a professor at the New York University School of Law. "It's very hard to see to how they could have ever reconstituted in the way they were before."
Attorney General Holder said the mob is not necessarily resurgent and no longer nationwide in scope, but still subtracts millions of dollars from local businesses by way of the so-called "mob tax."
"It is an ongoing threat, a major threat to the economic well-being of this country," he said.
New Jersey and New York prosecutors identified 15 New Jersey residents with alleged mob ties who were officials for longshoremen's unions, charging them with racketeering and related offenses, according to a joint statement from district attorneys in both states.
A man described as a "soldier in the Genovese organized crime family" allegedly collected money from port workers, extracting extortion payments after the workers received their annual Christmas bonuses.

Police say workers from unions, including the International Longshoremen's Association Local 1235, were forced to pay corrupt officials between $500 and $5,000 each year if they hoped to rise above entry-level jobs on the docks, according to New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.
"Organized crime means what it has always meant on the waterfront: Mobsters getting rich on the backs of dock workers," he said

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 20th, 2011, 4:35 pm

That's what is frustrating to me. I have to constantly argue with people who think the Mafia in New York is a thing of the past. And, in a way, I guess you can't blame them because some in the press and even law enforcement have been making predictions about the end of the Mafia for the last 20 years. But all it takes is a look into the ongoing cases over that time involving the Mafia, right up to the present. The Mafia in New York is still there and never went away. And hasn't been reduced to a street gang. What's really ironic is, every time we have one of these big busts, many seem to think "Well, this is finally it. It's over." That is, until the next big Mafia bust comes around. And the one after that. And one after that.

Anyway, here is a chart of the multi-family arrests.
http://www.mediafire.com/?n049saqc2labczn

The Manocchio indictement - (New England)
http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files ... ctment.pdf

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 20th, 2011, 5:02 pm

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 20th, 2011, 7:55 pm

Another list of all the indictments, from the Justice Department website.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/lacosanostra.htm

Press conference video. Looks like they are planning on merging the organized crime & racketeering division and gang units.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 0#41174448

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 20th, 2011, 8:31 pm

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 21st, 2011, 8:29 am

I agree with you thewestside, the Mafia in NY will still be there for a while and won't go a way until decades later or maybe won't ever go away. In my opinion the greatest threat to the Mafia is the Italian community Americanizing into the U.S culture more than anything. Is there another organized group or the extensions of it that can rival the 5 families in NY city in the state of NY????

Unread post by **Faciulina** » January 21st, 2011, 12:15 pm

this blitz is against colombo and gambino family only, anyway almost all the arrested are associates... genovese, lucchese and bonanno were not touched or barely touched by the cops

Unread post by **Quepolo3** » January 21st, 2011, 2:13 pm

thewestside wrote:That's what is frustrating to me. I have to constantly argue with people who think the Mafia in New York is a thing of the past. And, in a way, I guess you can't blame them because some in the press and even law enforcement have been making predictions about the end of the Mafia for the last 20 years. But all it takes is a look into the ongoing cases over that time involving the Mafia, right up to the present. The Mafia in New York is still there and never went away. And hasn't been reduced to a street gang. What's really ironic is, every time we have one of these big busts, many seem to think "Well, this is finally it. It's over." That is, until the next big Mafia bust comes around. And the one after that. And one after that.

Anyway, here is a chart of the multi-family arrests.
http://www.mediafire.com/?n049saqc2labczn

The Manocchio indictement - (New England)
http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files ... ctment.pdf

I agree westside. I have heard that same debate concerning the the existence of the mafia today. It is no way that the mafia will ever go away. It's way to much money involved, and too many generations. Even with these indictments, most of them will get off, and be back on the street training the next group. For the ones that don't beat the case, there is a youngster just waiting to take over. However, I do think that the days of the "old mafia " is over. I'm sure the the new generation will change the game up a little, and not conduct business the same way. Just like the bloods and crips. They don't dress the way they did in the 80's and 90's. There are a few, but the real hustlers try to be a little more inconspicuous so that the heat can stay off. Good post westside

mstarOmerta · Unread post by **mstarOmerta** » January 21st, 2011, 2:18 pm

the problem as you guys have pointed out, these days i think the families will become more secretive and these days the threat of jail is so HIGH membership etc will suffer i really can see the size of the families decreasing. Will it drive the mafia to states where they wnt attract much heat?

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 21st, 2011, 4:11 pm

mstarOmerta wrote:the problem as you guys have pointed out, these days i think the families will become more secretive and these days the threat of jail is so HIGH membership etc will suffer i really can see the size of the families decreasing. Will it drive the mafia to states where they wnt attract much heat?

Well the Mafia is deep rooted into New York society that it's difficult or almost virtually impossible to them to leave, people in other states might not be too tolerable of the Mafia operations especially with their extortions or shakedowns of businesses.

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 21st, 2011, 6:17 pm

When people talk about there being "no more Mafia," they need to make a distinction of where exactly they are talking about. In many cities around the country there is no more Mafia. But the New York metropolitan area, and to a lesser extent the rest of the northeast, Chicago, and the Miami/South Florida area is a different story.

mstarOmerta · Unread post by **mstarOmerta** » January 22nd, 2011, 7:58 am

totally agree westside.

Anyone know what capos and family members got arrested in the investigation??

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 22nd, 2011, 1:33 pm

Structure Keeps Mafia Atop Crime Heap
Strict Hierarchy and Ability to Recruit Have Enabled La Cosa Nostra to Survive Challenges From Other Organizations
By DEVLIN BARRETT and SEAN GARDINER
January 22, 2011

Over the past three decades, Russian mobsters, Chinese gangsters, Mexican cartels and a host of other groups have all grabbed slices of the criminal activity traditionally dominated by the mafia.

But none have come close to exerting the kind of wide-ranging influence still enjoyed by La Cosa Nostra, as the Italian-American mob is known.

That is partly because of how the different gangs have organized themselves. The mafia has a strict hierarchical structure, law-enforcement officials said, and it has proven capable of finding new soldiers. Even after imprisonment of senior leadership, it survives, and in some places thrives, though most experts agree that its operations are now largely confined to its traditional bases in the Northeast and Chicago.

This week's round-up of more than 100 suspected mob members and associates is unlikely to stop the mafia's core businesses: extortion, loan-sharking, fraud and theft. Yet the arrests also indicate how difficult it is these days to be a mafia leader—paranoid about informants, afraid of telephones and dreading the early-morning knock on the door.

"We aggressively attack them…and the sentences are very large, but they continue to roll the dice," said David Shafer, who heads the Organized Crime Branch in the Federal Bureau of Investigation's New York Office, which also has squads dedicated to Russian and Asian gangs.

The mob has evolved in part by outsourcing, contracting out some of its criminal work to motorcycle gangs, according to Howard Abadinsky, a professor at St. John's University who writes about organized crime. The so-called Outlaws gang has done a lot work in recent years with the Chicago mob, while the Hell's Angels are used by New York City's mafia families. Philadelphia mobsters use a gang called the Pagans.

Russian gangsters were once feared as the next criminal superpower. But their looser structure, which helps them avoid detection by law enforcement, has also kept them from growing into an organization able to recruit the number of members needed to challenge the mafia.

The Russian networks tend to come together briefly for particular criminal plots and then disband, according to Michael Vecchione, who heads the rackets division at the Brooklyn district attorney's office.

Mr. Shafer, the FBI official, said some Russian crooks also realized there were great profits to be made in white-collar crime, such as scams involving insurance or medical fraud, "so why do the extortion or gambling?"

Most Asian gangs, meanwhile, tend to victimize only members of their own immigrant group and therefore remain small compared with much larger mafia families, experts who study the groups said.

In the late 1980s, Chinese and Vietnamese gangs such as the Ghost Shadows, Born to Kill and Flying Dragons were operating in New York City's Chinatown, engaging in gambling, drug-trafficking, prostitution, robbery, extortion and other crimes, including murder.

A series of racketeering prosecutions effectively dismantled the most dangerous of those groups, according to Mr. Shafer, reducing them to smaller, less ambitious groups that he said were more akin to "roaming wolf packs" than true street gangs.

But the true breadth and penetration of some ethnic gangs isn't entirely clear. For instance, Russian criminal networks are particularly difficult to crack because of the foreign-language expertise required, experts said.

One area dominated by the newer gangs is the U.S. drug trade, where Mexican cartels are now challenging the Colombians for supremacy, said John Gilbride, special agent in charge of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration's New York Office.

The shift in power began in the mid-1990s when the Colombian drug lords started paying the Mexican cartels—whose members transported the cocaine and heroin into the U.S. in tractor trailers and vehicles with hidden traps—with drugs instead of money.

But Mr. Abadinsky said the big drug cartels were "one-trick ponies" and didn't participate in non-drug-related crime since nothing else was as profitable.

So while the days of John Gotti—the "Dapper Don" whose swagger and scheming made him the most wanted mobster of his time—are long gone, the Italian-American mob remains the most powerful criminal enterprise in the U.S., mafia observers say.

A former mobster, who first joined a New York crime family 25 years ago, said: "The mob is still around but the education to it ain't there."

But he said the mob always had a comeback. "It will regroup. Everybody will lay low and see what happens. Then all of a sudden, little by little, they'll come out and they'll start regrouping. They gotta. There's too much money, and you gotta remember their egos won't let them walk away."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 89246.html

Unread post by **Faciulina** » January 23rd, 2011, 9:12 am

the Italian-American mob remains the most powerful criminal enterprise in the U.S., mafia observers say.

LOL it was i always said on this forum, other crime groups are not even close to mafia even today, imagine in the past...

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 23rd, 2011, 10:46 am

Faciulina wrote:the Italian-American mob remains the most powerful criminal enterprise in the U.S., mafia observers say.

LOL it was i always said on this forum, other crime groups are not even close to mafia even today, imagine in the past...

I think you're getting ahead of yourself, the 5 families might be the most powerful U.S based criminal enterprise in the U.S but they aren't as powerful as the Mexican Cartels and their extensions and maybe the Colombians and their extensions . The drug trade is far more profitable than extortions, loan sharking and gambling etc. combined, the other major profit aside from the drug trade is the illegal weapons trade. The Mexicans and Colombians don't really do any other criminal activities in the U.S aside from money laundering(which they do in another countries also), drug trafficking(they also do in another countries) and wholesale distribution(they also do in another countries) because they are afraid of U.S intervention back home. I don't think the Mafia can survive in other states and cities aside from New York and Chicago which has been proven with the extinct families or almost extinct families(my opinion nothing against the Mafia). We're talking about the American-Mafia here by the way. Also this article is a somewhat biased and uninformed about the other criminal organizations.

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 24th, 2011, 1:23 pm

Once again, to argue who is the "most powerful" is a circular debate that never ends. There are a number of ways to define "power."

Nationally, it's pretty obvious that the Mexican DTO's present the biggest organized crime threat. They control most of the drug trade, which has a bigger effect on society than anything else.

That said, I think it can be argued that the Mafia remains the strongest organized crime group in the New York metropolitan area and maybe the northeast in general. Nowhere else though.

Unread post by **Faciulina** » January 24th, 2011, 7:06 pm

think you're getting ahead of yourself, the 5 families might be the most powerful U.S based criminal enterprise in the U.S but they aren't as powerful as the Mexican Cartels and their extensions and maybe the Colombians and their extensions

i was talking about the states and in the states as a whole cosa nostra is still the strongest, by far stronger than any extensions of both mexicans and colombians

Nationally, it's pretty obvious that the Mexican DTO's present the biggest organized crime threat. They control most of the drug trade, which has a bigger effect on society than anything else.

it's like i say sicilian mafia was stronger than domestic italo-american mafia in the 70s and 80s just because it imported most of drugs into the states in that period

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 28th, 2011, 4:31 pm

thewestside wrote:Once again, to argue who is the "most powerful" is a circular debate that never ends. There are a number of ways to define "power."

Nationally, it's pretty obvious that the Mexican DTO's present the biggest organized crime threat. They control most of the drug trade, which has a bigger effect on society than anything else.

That said, I think it can be argued that the Mafia remains the strongest organized crime group in the New York metropolitan area and maybe the northeast in general. Nowhere else though.

The thing is that nowadays there is too many gangs and organized crime groups that no one gang or organized crime groups "controls" whole cities and states. Do you think the American-Italian organized crime groups can branch out and root themselves into society like they did Chicago and New York???

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 28th, 2011, 4:55 pm

RDRIGN wrote: The thing is that nowadays there is too many gangs and organized crime groups that no one gang or organized crime groups "controls" whole cities and states. Do you think the American-Italian organized crime groups can branch out and root themselves into society like they did Chicago and New York???

The trend has actually been the other way. At it's peak, the Mafia was much more national in scope than it is now, with around two dozen families coast to coast. But general attrition, assimilation of Italian-Americans into mainstream society, indictments, etc. have seen the demise and extinction of many Mafia families around the country; especially the ones that were always smaller anyway. That's why the only places left with significant Mafia presence is the New York metropolitan area, and to a lesser extent other places like New England, Philadelphia, Chicago, etc. where there. These places traditionally had bigger families and so they've been slower to decline.

But even with these remaining families, there isn't the scope there once was. The Patriarca family out of New England doesn't really extend much beyond Boston and Providence. Not much of a presence in Connecticut for them anymore. The DeCavalcante family doesn't extend much beyond north Jersey. The Philadelphia family not much beyond south Philly and south Jersey. The Outfit not much beyond Chicago and its surburbs in Cook County. The three smaller New York families - Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno - not much beyond New York, New Jersey, and south Florida. The larger Genovese and Gambino families remain the most expansive. Besides New York and New Jersey, both operate to one extent or another in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and south Florida. Also Massachusetts for the Genovese as well. Not a whole lot of Mafia presence elsewhere, even in places like Buffalo and Detroit. And hardly anything out west in Nevada, Arizona, California, etc.

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 28th, 2011, 5:28 pm

thewestside wrote:
RDRIGN wrote: The thing is that nowadays there is too many gangs and organized crime groups that no one gang or organized crime groups "controls" whole cities and states. Do you think the American-Italian organized crime groups can branch out and root themselves into society like they did Chicago and New York???
The trend has actually been the other way. At it's peak, the Mafia was much more national in scope than it is now, with around two dozen families coast to coast. But general attrition, assimilation of Italian-Americans into mainstream society, indictments, etc. have seen the demise and extinction of many Mafia families around the country; especially the ones that were always smaller anyway. That's why the only places left with significant Mafia presence is the New York metropolitan area, and to a lesser extent other places like New England, Philadelphia, Chicago, etc. where there. These places traditionally had bigger families and so they've been slower to decline.

But even with these remaining families, there isn't the scope there once was. The Patriarca family out of New England doesn't really extend much beyond Boston and Providence. Not much of a presence in Connecticut for them anymore. The DeCavalcante family doesn't extend much beyond north Jersey. The Philadelphia family not much beyond south Philly and south Jersey. The Outfit not much beyond Chicago and its surburbs in Cook County. The three smaller New York families - Lucchese, Colombo, and Bonanno - not much beyond New York, New Jersey, and south Florida. The larger Genovese and Gambino families remain the most expansive. Besides New York and New Jersey, both operate to one extent or another in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and south Florida. Also Massachusetts for the Genovese as well. Not a whole lot of Mafia presence elsewhere, even in places like Buffalo and Detroit. And hardly anything out west in Nevada, Arizona, California, etc.

Yes of course the trend has been reversed but do you think the extinction of the other families were because they weren't deep rooted into society in their area like the 5 families and Outfit are??

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 28th, 2011, 7:09 pm

RDRIGN wrote:Yes of course the trend has been reversed but do you think the extinction of the other families were because they weren't deep rooted into society in their area like the 5 families and Outfit are??

What do you mean by "deeply rooted into society?"

If you mean entrenched in various legitimate industries in the legal world, as opposed to just criminal activities in the underworld, that was always mainly a New York thing; i.e. the waterfront, construction, trucking, garbage, the airports, the garment center, wholesale food markets, trade shows, etc. This often being facilitated through control of labor unions of course. Other families around the country controlled labor unions here and there but not enough to where they really controlled entire industries like in New York.

But maybe you mean something else. When the Mafia was at it's peak size in the 1950's, Italian Americans still weren't fully integrated into American society. They were certainly more assimilated than they had been in the early 20th century but there were still plenty of ethnic Italian neighborhoods in various cities where the mob had a big pool of recruits and could thrive. The union movement was at it's peak. Irish and Jewish groups had largely fallen by the way side and newer Latin American, Asian, and Eastern European groups weren't on the scene yet. Law enforcement was still very much behind the ball when it came to the mob.

As all these factors started to change in the 1970's and 1980's, the smaller families were effected by it more quickly. Less recruits to replace those that died, went to prison, etc. It's why places like Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, and San Jose didn't really have anything left after the 1960's and 1970's. Soon mid-size families in places like Cleveland, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and St. Louis wouldn't have much left after the 1980's.

Unread post by **mrinteresting** » January 28th, 2011, 9:36 pm

thewestside wrote:
RDRIGN wrote:Yes of course the trend has been reversed but do you think the extinction of the other families were because they weren't deep rooted into society in their area like the 5 families and Outfit are??
What do you mean by "deeply rooted into society?"

If you mean entrenched in various legitimate industries in the legal world, as opposed to just criminal activities in the underworld, that was always mainly a New York thing; i.e. the waterfront, construction, trucking, garbage, the airports, the garment center, wholesale food markets, trade shows, etc. This often being facilitated through control of labor unions of course. Other families around the country controlled labor unions here and there but not enough to where they really controlled entire industries like in New York.

But maybe you mean something else. When the Mafia was at it's peak size in the 1950's, Italian Americans still weren't fully integrated into American society. They were certainly more assimilated than they had been in the early 20th century but there were still plenty of ethnic Italian neighborhoods in various cities where the mob had a big pool of recruits and could thrive. The union movement was at it's peak. Irish and Jewish groups had largely fallen by the way side and newer Latin American, Asian, and Eastern European groups weren't on the scene yet. Law enforcement was still very much behind the ball when it came to the mob.

As all these factors started to change in the 1970's and 1980's, the smaller families were effected by it more quickly. Less recruits to replace those that died, went to prison, etc. It's why places like Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, and San Jose didn't really have anything left after the 1960's and 1970's. Soon mid-size families in places like Cleveland, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and St. Louis wouldn't have much left after the 1980's.

the mafia will never go away for a long ass time. if u watched the gangland on detroit, the best friends was a dam hell episode when dey dominated detroit for a long time for a decade lol... detroit idk bout that city but its still organized crime down there fa sho... chicago's italian mob al capone was pretty badass back in the old days and theres still mobster typa shit goin on down there... even chicagos street gangs act as a mafia style gang which is sweet... new york, jersey, and philly will always be dominated by italians cuz they r true wiseguyz lol... the top organized crime syndicates overall are chinese triads(along side with vietnamese gangs), italian mafia, russian mafia, mexican cartels, and biker gangs(like the hells angels)

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 28th, 2011, 10:33 pm

thewestside wrote:
RDRIGN wrote:Yes of course the trend has been reversed but do you think the extinction of the other families were because they weren't deep rooted into society in their area like the 5 families and Outfit are??
What do you mean by "deeply rooted into society?"

If you mean entrenched in various legitimate industries in the legal world, as opposed to just criminal activities in the underworld, that was always mainly a New York thing; i.e. the waterfront, construction, trucking, garbage, the airports, the garment center, wholesale food markets, trade shows, etc. This often being facilitated through control of labor unions of course. Other families around the country controlled labor unions here and there but not enough to where they really controlled entire industries like in New York.

But maybe you mean something else. When the Mafia was at it's peak size in the 1950's, Italian Americans still weren't fully integrated into American society. They were certainly more assimilated than they had been in the early 20th century but there were still plenty of ethnic Italian neighborhoods in various cities where the mob had a big pool of recruits and could thrive. The union movement was at it's peak. Irish and Jewish groups had largely fallen by the way side and newer Latin American, Asian, and Eastern European groups weren't on the scene yet. Law enforcement was still very much behind the ball when it came to the mob.

As all these factors started to change in the 1970's and 1980's, the smaller families were effected by it more quickly. Less recruits to replace those that died, went to prison, etc. It's why places like Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, and San Jose didn't really have anything left after the 1960's and 1970's. Soon mid-size families in places like Cleveland, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and St. Louis wouldn't have much left after the 1980's.

What I meant by deeply rooted into society is that the people from the Northeast is somewhat accustomed to Mafia operations compared to other people with no Mafia history. For example, the people in Mexico are not accustomed to shakedowns, extortions, "cobro de pizo", kidnapping for ransom etc. thus the hate for Los Zetas which are widely known for compared to the other cartels/organized crime groups in Mexico that don't really do that in their home state or not do it at all. You get what I'm saying or no?

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 29th, 2011, 2:01 am

RDRIGN wrote:What I meant by deeply rooted into society is that the people from the Northeast is somewhat accustomed to Mafia operations compared to other people with no Mafia history. For example, the people in Mexico are not accustomed to shakedowns, extortions, "cobro de pizo", kidnapping for ransom etc. thus the hate for Los Zetas which are widely known for compared to the other cartels/organized crime groups in Mexico that don't really do that in their home state or not do it at all. You get what I'm saying or no?

You're talking about the old style "protection" racket. While that's a relatively new phenomenon in Mexico, it's obviously been going on for a long time in southern Italy and in Sicily. There it's called the "pizzo." Of course, this came with Italian immigrants to America and was prevalent in the Italian-American communities for a number of years.

Even today the Mafia is still very much involved in extortion here in the U.S. but they've typically moved beyond extorting every Italian mom and pop shop up and down the street. The way the mob goes about it is a little more sophisticated now. It might be in the form of forcing a restaurant to buy their food and liquor supply from a mob-connected provider. It might be forcing a construction company to give out no show jobs to mob guys so they don't have any union problems. All the Mafia families operated this way and the ones remaining still do.

The reason why some families have disappeared is because they, themselves, are gone. Not because there isn't anyone left to extort in some way. At the very least, the Mafia will always have shady businesses like strip clubs and porn shops to shake down. As well as forcing a street tax on unaffiliated bookies, loansharks, drug dealers, fences, etc.

Unread post by **mayugastank** » January 29th, 2011, 3:12 pm

This from an article :
The colombos had 2 high ranking members of the mafia "above soldier" making tape recordings that led to the massive takedown. The colombos are left ruterless. Another thing-the lucchese and bonanos are sidelined to non exsitance as they werent even targeted in the indictment, yet the other (3) families were. What does the tell you despite the grandoising of a mafia comeback?

That the bonanos and lucchese are finished. That the colombos are essentially exterminated due to infiltration. With these 2 new capos flipping the number of made men whove turned has been exhausting. After the dust settles surely several more will flip. Would a few flipping matter in Italy? Negative.

But here today now--its a big deal. The mafia is finished these raids are speeding it along. 120 people get targeted in raids in the projects in Georgia regularly. Almost teh entire colombo family was indicted. Major players possible underboss and high ranking captains flipped---the organization is done.

When we speak of the mafia after these arrests they should be referred to as the 2 families. Genovese and Gambino.

Unread post by **RDRIGN** » January 30th, 2011, 2:33 pm

thewestside wrote:
RDRIGN wrote:What I meant by deeply rooted into society is that the people from the Northeast is somewhat accustomed to Mafia operations compared to other people with no Mafia history. For example, the people in Mexico are not accustomed to shakedowns, extortions, "cobro de pizo", kidnapping for ransom etc. thus the hate for Los Zetas which are widely known for compared to the other cartels/organized crime groups in Mexico that don't really do that in their home state or not do it at all. You get what I'm saying or no?
You're talking about the old style "protection" racket. While that's a relatively new phenomenon in Mexico, it's obviously been going on for a long time in southern Italy and in Sicily. There it's called the "pizzo." Of course, this came with Italian immigrants to America and was prevalent in the Italian-American communities for a number of years.

Even today the Mafia is still very much involved in extortion here in the U.S. but they've typically moved beyond extorting every Italian mom and pop shop up and down the street. The way the mob goes about it is a little more sophisticated now. It might be in the form of forcing a restaurant to buy their food and liquor supply from a mob-connected provider. It might be forcing a construction company to give out no show jobs to mob guys so they don't have any union problems. All the Mafia families operated this way and the ones remaining still do.

The reason why some families have disappeared is because they, themselves, are gone. Not because there isn't anyone left to extort in some way. At the very least, the Mafia will always have shady businesses like strip clubs and porn shops to shake down. As well as forcing a street tax on unaffiliated bookies, loansharks, drug dealers, fences, etc.

What I'm saying is that in other places outside New York and Chicago that has little to no Mafia history and exposure the people might be less tolerant of Mafia extortions of all types and maybe other Mafia activities. That's what I meant that the Mafia is somehow rooted into New York and Chicago society, that people outside of New York and Chicago are less tolerant and are more likely to call the authorities compared to people in NY or Chicago that are somehow accustomed to Mafia operations. Well that's what I think.

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 30th, 2011, 3:04 pm

mayugastank wrote:This from an article :
The colombos had 2 high ranking members of the mafia "above soldier" making tape recordings that led to the massive takedown. The colombos are left ruterless. Another thing-the lucchese and bonanos are sidelined to non exsitance as they werent even targeted in the indictment, yet the other (3) families were. What does the tell you despite the grandoising of a mafia comeback?

That the bonanos and lucchese are finished. That the colombos are essentially exterminated due to infiltration. With these 2 new capos flipping the number of made men whove turned has been exhausting. After the dust settles surely several more will flip. Would a few flipping matter in Italy? Negative.

But here today now--its a big deal. The mafia is finished these raids are speeding it along. 120 people get targeted in raids in the projects in Georgia regularly. Almost teh entire colombo family was indicted. Major players possible underboss and high ranking captains flipped---the organization is done.

When we speak of the mafia after these arrests they should be referred to as the 2 families. Genovese and Gambino.

Leave it to you to totally misinterpret all this in order to use it to help your bogus argument. Your post above is easily ripped to shreds.

First, we'll have to see who the guys were making recordings. It might indeed be a soldier or even a captain. Maybe both. Wouldn't be the first time. But a couple guys flipping doesn't make the Colombos "rudderless" anymore than this massive bust destroys the entire Mafia in the Northeast. Remember the huge bust back in 2008? People were wondering if that was the end of the Gambinos. Well, guess what, genius? Almost all of those indicted at the time are now out of jail already.

Second, I've never said anything about a "Mafia comeback." What I've been saying all along is that, though very weakened, the New York Mafia has never gone away. It's why I wasn't surprised in the least by this latest bust while others seemed shocked. "Huh? What? The Mob is still around?"

Third, so what if the Lucchese and Bonannos weren't the main targets of the indictment? There were actually several indictments involved, not just one. And members and/or associates of all five New York families were involved. As well as a handful in the DeCavalcante family in New Jersey and the Patriarca family in New England. But this bust was mainly targeted at the Gambinos and Colombos, and to a lesser extent, the Genovese. If it wasn't for the bust involving the ILA, which is a superseding indictment from a previous one, the Genovese wouldn't have much involvement in in this at all. And, according to your mentality, that must mean they must be "sidelined to non-existance." Of course, we both know that isn't true. Any more than any of the families in New York being sidelined to non-existance. Notice how you focus on the absence of this family or that family in this latest round of indictments but don't bother to notice other indictments involving those very families in recent times.

Fourth, rats, indictments, raids, etc. are nothing new. This has been going on for years. But the demise of the Mafia is a slow process, especially in New York. The media, because it likes drama, loves to play up the angle of the latest case being "the last great Mafia bust." That is, until the next one comes around. Did you happen to watch the press conference announcing the bust? Law enforcement has changed it's tune. They are now much more careful about declaring the mob to be nearly gone. In fact, they said the exact opposite this time around.

I'll say it again. The Mafia in New York isn't done. There are still five formally structured, viable families that are self-standing and able to install new leadership. They are in continual decline but will yet be around for a long time to come. That's the truth. That's what the facts say. End of story.

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 30th, 2011, 3:14 pm

It's some more reading for our local village idiot....

Omertà May Be Dead; the Mafia Isn’t
By SELWYN RAAB
January 22, 2011

QUITE a coincidence: In January 1961, Robert F. Kennedy, newly appointed as attorney general of the United States, orchestrated the first concentrated attack on the American Mafia. Almost to the day 50 years later, the government swept up more than 120 people in a smorgasbord of racketeering indictments, mainly in the New York area.

It was described as the largest single-day assemblage of Mafiosi defendants in America. The arrests, however, underline a sobering message: despite half a century of law enforcement campaigns, New York’s Cosa Nostra (“Our Thing”) continues to prosper. This is often because some change — usually either shifting priorities for law enforcement or improved strategy on the part of the new criminal bosses — gives the mob breathing space to rebuild.

Since the birth of the American Mafia in 1931, New York has been its crown jewel. While other major cities and regions were limited to one family, or borgata, New York was afflicted with five powerful ones, now known as the Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese and Luchese groups. (There is also a satellite unit, the DeCavalcantes, in New Jersey.)

In the decades after the passage of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations laws of 1970, the F.B.I. and the Justice Department eliminated or severely weakened all 20-odd families in other cities and regions. In New York, the hierarchies of the five families were thought to have been pretty much destroyed by the so-called Commission Case in the mid-1980s and other investigations. By the end of the last century, prosecutors and F.B.I. officials all too frequently proclaimed that even the mob’s sacred stronghold in New York was crushed.

As they did to so many aspects of American life, however, the 9/11 attacks radically transformed things. Until 9/11, the F.B.I. had two top priorities: counterespionage and the mob. But in the early 2000s the Justice Department dropped Cosa Nostra investigations as a priority, reassigning hundreds of agents to antiterrorist units.

In New York, the linchpin in the F.B.I.’s crusade against wise guys, the number of agents and Police Department investigators assigned to battling the five families in combined task forces declined to about 100 from a high point of 450. Last week’s indictments demonstrated how effectively the borgatas had regrouped.

Federal officials, as recently as five years ago, boasted that the New York Mafia had been expelled from its main bastions: private garbage carting, the garment center, the construction industry, waterfront cargo and control of key unions. But the current indictments tell a different tale — most allege that the mob was behind corrupt construction deals and waterfront shakedowns through infiltration of unions.

The sweeping arrests also reflect a major change in Mafia strategy. There were no celebrity names reminiscent of former kingpins like John J. Gotti or Vincent Gigante, known as “Chin.” The alleged bosses are virtually unknown outside of law enforcement circles. Like the dons of the 1930s and 1940s, they maintained low profiles and, unlike the flamboyant Mr. Gotti, were presumably aware they were running secret organizations.

This is not to say the arrests don’t indicate progress. It’s encouraging that law enforcement is still able to overcome the Mafia’s code of silence, or omertà. The racketeering statutes’ threat of severe prison sentences, including life behind bars, is reported to have spurred many low- and middle-ranked mobsters to turn informant.

Nonetheless, even if we drive the criminals out of their traditional corruption rackets, it’s unlikely to be an obituary for the mob. Sports bookmaking and loan-sharking, the Mafia’s symbiotic bread-and-butter staples, will continue to flourish and provide seed money for other criminal endeavors.

There are several reasons for this. High-end gamblers prefer wagering with the mob rather than with state-authorized gambling operations like Off-Track Betting, where you have to pay taxes on your winnings. Moreover, the mob is adept at running bookmaking mills and, even when arrests occur, sentences are rarely harsh.

The timing of the government crackdown, which included some raids on gambling networks, might put a crimp into an exceptionally profitable venture for the mob — the Super Bowl next month. A study by the New York Police Department’s Organized Crime Control Bureau 20 years ago estimated that more than $1 billion was wagered on the Super Bowl with mob-linked bookies in the New York area.

Another huge money-producer, loan-sharking, is customarily a partnership with illegal gambling. Compulsive bettors in debt to a bookie frequently have recourse only to a loan shark for quick cash. Hard economic times can be a bonanza for mob lenders. They learned during the Great Depression that honest business owners will seek usurious loans when banks are reluctant to finance small- and medium-sized enterprises.

Above all, though, the mob’s ability to survive is a legacy from Charles (Lucky) Luciano. He was a brilliant criminal executive who created the framework, culture and ground rules for the American Mafia 80 years ago. Luciano realized that other ethnic gangs were loosely organized, usually involved in just one type of crime and easily obliterated when their leaders were imprisoned. Hence his cardinal principle: the organization — the family — was supreme and not reliant on a single individual or one racket. Whenever a boss or a capo was removed, a replacement would be waiting in the wings to keep the loot flowing.

So, while the unveiling of the indictments last week by Attorney General Eric Holder was a sharp warning that the Mafia was again on the Justice Department’s radar screen, we should bear in mind the mob’s previous Lazarus-like revivals. The removal of the current crop of Mafia barons will probably engender a new generation of mobsters. There have always been, and always will be, ambitious, greedy wise guys who are willing to risk long prison sentences for the power and riches glittering before them. The Mafia is wounded, but not fatally.

Selwyn Raab, a former reporter for The Times, is the author of “Five Families: The Rise, Decline and Resurgence of America’s Most Powerful Mafia Empires.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/opinion/23raab.html

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What to Expect of Mob Arrests? ’08 Roundup May Hold Clues
By ALAN FEUER
Published: January 21, 2011

Given that hundreds of local, state and federal law-enforcement officers fanned across the region this week, arresting 125 reputed mobsters on a buffet table’s worth of charges that included money laundering, extortion and murder, the events of Feb. 7, 2008, seem, in retrospect, uncannily familiar.

Then, hundreds of local, state and federal law-enforcement officers fanned across the region arresting almost 100 reputed mobsters on a buffet table’s worth of charges that included money laundering, extortion and murder.

No two mob busts — like no two snowflakes — are exactly alike; nor, as corporate lawyers tell their clients to say, do past results guarantee future outcomes. Still, in a spirit of criminal accountancy, it seemed to make sense to analyze the numbers and determine what actually happened the last time the government undertook what was described, in both instances, as the biggest Mafia sweep in recent memory.

It has been three years since the arrests in Operation Pathfinder, as the 2008 case was called, yet only 17 of the 62 men charged in federal court remain behind bars. Eighteen have finished their prison terms — some less than a year in length. Five received time served and periods of supervised release, and 21 were sentenced to probation or community service.

The results were similar among those charged in state court in Queens; 18 of the 26 defendants never saw prison, having received either time served in jail or a conditional discharge, in which charges are dropped if the defendants’ proverbial noses remain clean.

Both cases, new and old, featured previously unsolved killings (this week, of the two owners of an Irish bar in Richmond Hill, Queens; in 2008, of a court officer preparing to testify at a gangster’s trial). Both involved labor unions (now: Local 6A of the Cement & Concrete Workers Union; then: Local 731 of the Building, Concrete, Excavating & Common Laborers Union of Greater New York). And both were announced at news conferences at which (different) chiefs of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s New York office dismissed as a myth the notion that La Cosa Nostra was a thing of the past.

Operation Pathfinder was an indisputable success in winning convictions. All but 2 of the 62 federal defendants pleaded guilty, one was convicted after a trial and the charges against the last one (interference with commerce by threat or violence) were dropped by the government. The suspects in the state system shared an even-more-uniform fate: all pleaded guilty.

Even though few served hard time, the most serious cases — those involving murder (Charles Carneglia), kidnapping (Angelo Ruggiero, Jr.) and racketeering (Joseph Corozzo, who, though still in prison, was charged anew in the roundup on Thursday) — ended in relatively stiff sentences that ranged from eight years to life. Moreover, the majority of those who never went to prison, or are already out, were charged with what, at least in the violent world of the mob, are essentially peccadilloes: embezzlement of assets, frauds and swindles, illegal gambling.

“There were a lot of relatively minor crimes in the case — basically nonviolent crimes,” a federal official involved with Operation Pathfinder said. “Still, it was a blow to organized crime.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/nyreg ... .html?_r=2

Unread post by **thewestside** » January 30th, 2011, 3:27 pm

"Today’s arrests mark an important, and encouraging, step forward in disrupting La Cosa Nostra’s operations. But our battle against organized crime enterprises is far from over. This is an ongoing effort and it must, and will, remain a top priority. Members and associates of La Cosa Nostra are among the most dangerous criminals in our country. The very oath of allegiance sworn by these mafia members during their initiation ceremony binds them to a life of crime. As we’ve seen for decades, criminal mafia operations can negatively impact our economy – not only through a wide array of fraud schemes but also through the illegal imposition of mob taxes at our ports, in our construction industries, and on our small businesses. In some cases, La Cosa Nostra members and associates allegedly seek to corrupt legitimate businesses and those who have sworn to uphold the public trust. And many of them are lethal. Time and again, they have shown a willingness to kill – to make money, to eliminate rivals, and to silence witnesses." - Eric Holder, U.S. Attorney General
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speec ... 10120.html

"Some believe organized crime is a thing of the past; unfortunately, there are still people who extort, intimidate, and victimize innocent Americans. The costs legitimate businesses are forced to pay are ultimately borne by American consumers nationwide." - Robert Mueller, Director FBI
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12243086

"The notion that today's mob families are more genteel and less violent than in the past is put to lie by the charges contained in the indictments unsealed today. Even more of a myth is the notion that the mob is a thing of the past; that La Cosa Nostra is a shadow of its former self." Janice Fedarcyk, New York FBI Assistant Director
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/ja ... fia_012011

Unread post by **mrinteresting** » January 31st, 2011, 4:54 pm

italians are true wiseguys lol

Unread post by **mayugastank** » January 31st, 2011, 11:56 pm

Time and again, they have shown a willingness to kill – to make money, to eliminate rivals, and to silence witnesses." - Eric Holder, U.S. Attorney General

OH YEAH? Like WHO? and like when?

When was the last time the mafia took out an informer? The only person I can think of off top would have to be Frank Hydell. Otherwise their have been dozens of turncoast who openly give interviews and make no beef about where they are at.

Another thing-ONCE AGAIN. Just like in the family secrets case Old murders-dating back to when the mob had numbers and organizing are thrown in with new indictments to make everyone including the jury believe that the mob is as dangerous as ever. I am surprised their were enough numbers to get 38 made members arrested. Yes true operation old bridge was a failure and yes most of those charged got out quickly-and yes this case here is also going to turn out the same way except for a "few unfortunate souls who got caught up in their past behaviour-quote" Harry Aleman.

But the goal by the USAG was to put the guys on probation and or supervised release so that everytime they speak they can get arrested. I am surprised they havent gone the way of California in issuing gang injunctions where merely saying hello to someone on the list is liable to get you 3 years-whether your on probation or not.

The Bonanos and Lucchese are finito. Their lack of charges in this indictment shows and says it loud and clear.

Unread post by **mayugastank** » February 1st, 2011, 12:05 am

Mr.Interesting"
the mafia will never go away "

In Italy. But they are gone in the USA in all places except for the northeast and a handful in chitown. The lack of Italian immigration has made sure that LCN will fade away. If their is some famine in Italy were all the wine goes bad and all the pizza rots well then yes maybe -but for now NEW BLOOD is hard to come by. Mr. Cusamano-Ruggiero-Alfonse-Indelicato-Piasano all teach english and gym at the local high schools and or are yoru firemen and police forces in their respective citys. In other words " italians are Americans. This isnt the repressed ghetto dwelling mustache pete of the slums of sicily with a penchant for honor and a thirst for blood. these new dudes are wannabes-suburban white boys so far removed form their homeland just about all cant speak italian. Not to mention -that Gotti and company couldnt-we are 20 years removed from the ravenite-the feast of st gennaro and mob crews aplenty.

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