"Disruptive Groups "Sur vs.Nor.EME vs. NF(ENE)

[bumperjack]

There are over 900 Disruptive Groups ,in CDCR to this day, I guess we can read as many as books as we can on these gangs,but to many Surenos and Norteno's have a misconception and illusionnot one of you can answer this question if you can give it a shot?,That all Mexican prison gang members are Sur EME and all NF are Northerners or Norteno's how can you seriously say that a prison gang member belongs to there footsoldiers group Eme are not all sureno's re read your drop out books this is all out there,if you guys know tell me how many EME members are from Oakland ,Ca? Are they Sureno's? Of Course not are they Norteno's of course not tell me how many NF members are from the L.A area?

[bumperjack]

Also the birthyear ? Of the North vs. South ? What year did they actually become street gangs? All you bangers that are the real deal should be able to answer this it's apart of your education also the term Plastico is used to describe. Who?

[rocket18hgs]

the paisas call people like me plastico because iam a Mexican running with the sur and not with the paisas. in their eye's only Chicanos should claim sur.

[bumperjack]

Ok Rocket18,Yes the word is currently used by the Northerners to say all Northern Sureno's are Plastico "Fake" Sureno sets... up north... the pasia's are part of this equasion, is what was run down to me by a real northerner period..

[bumperjack]

yes I belive Rocket it is also true,what you say, but there are alot of sureno sets that are piasa's up north claiming sur? this is what I hear frm my source's that are active!!!

[bumperjack]

These are the cities that factual records show were "eme members" are from and they are not Northerners nor Nortenos,San Francisco,Oakland,San Jose,Sanger,Visalia,Fresno,Sacramento,At one time there was a Regiment in San Diego,ca. of Nuestra Familia members,Facts fellas,NF they say now recruit only at of its Northern "Cesspool" Im talking History that can not be disputed or argued...Also when the NF was started it was not intended to be a Big Homie car for the North facts say because a half dozen were responcible for starting the NF wer from Southern,Calif. in 1965 in Soledad prison in Monterey,County,California There are currently members of the NF who are not from Northern,California,all this changed in the 1980's the North and South were talked about in the 1970's but weren't born into the 1980's alot of things happened in the 1980's with all prison gangs and the 2 disruptive groups,History has these accounts...

[silentwssj]

Ok, here is the deal as I see it! Mind you this is just one mans opinion. I definitely do not claim to know everything out there. #1 NF and EME are prison gangs. That is the main thing that differentiates them from there Norteno-Sureno counterparts. Norteno-Sureno groups are street gangs in origin. Both groups operate on the streets and in prison. Both groups are inseparably intertwined! The NF has been given the keys to the Norteno car on the streets and especially in prison. Every Norteno Varrio out there has someone or multiple people the NF to answer to! I am sure that it is the same with EME-Surenos. The best way to look at this in my mind at least is that CDC has their own classification system in place and Nortenos and Surenos do not fit into what they would call a prison gang. This is because their origins are from the streets and not the prisons! This does not mean that they are not a part of the prison gang structure though! Truth be told they are gang members and they are in prison. In fact in this day in age, they are the ones doing all the dirt while all the "Big Homies" are locked away in the various SHU's throughout the state. I have said it before and will say it again, all NF members are Nortenos by default! The same goes for all EME members being Surenos by default. Yes, I am very aware that many founding members of the NF originate from down South. In fact some of them are still active today! They are still absorbed into the greater Norteno umbrella though. I am not saying that they ever banged Norte on the streets, but they certainly function with them as fellow soldiers in their army in the penitentiary! The same can be said of EME-Surenos. They all start off as Surenos and then graduate to becoming a "Big Homie". The difference is in the classification or rather the historical origins of these prison gangs verses their street gang counterparts. Obviously CDC looks at prison gangs as being a much more serious threat than there street gang counterparts. They have a lifetime commitment and call the shots for their street gang counterparts. What I see In the CDC is that when a Hispanic inmate is processed in they ask are you a Northern or Southern Hispanic? This is a way to say that you are a gang member but they wont trip on you. They have got to do it for housing purposes. If questioned about affiliation all you have to do is say "Hey I am from San Jose and I want to be housed with my people" Truth be told though, the NF is waiting for your arrival. As soon as you hit the tier they are going to send Tier security over to your cell and ask for all your information + paperwork. This gets sent back to east block yard side at San Quentin "which is the main hole" From there an NF member checks your information against what is called the "Bad News List" If your name comes up you get whacked ASAP! If there are questions about you, someone beats your ass to get you to the hole so they can personally interrogate you! If your name is cleared you are good to function with everyone else and you will be considered a soldado! You are not an NF member, but you fall under their direct orders. You will serve the entire household faithfully or suffer the repercussions! Gang member you are, just not NF member! Hopefully this helps you guys in gaining a better understanding of how it really plays out! I am quite sure it is the same for EME-Surenos!
#2 Plastico is simply Spanish for plastic or fake! Yes we call paisa Surenos that, but we also call people that we feel are fake or wanna be's that to. I am sure that that term is used in different ways in different areas.
#3 Yes there are documented cases of EME members being from San Jose. The thing is that was decades ago! There was Leo "Psyco" Robles and "Tuffy" both of San Jo! There may in fact be some current members but I can not confirm or deny that information at this point. Clanton 14 is the only LA Sureno varrio in San Jo that is legit right now. The rest are Paisa Sureno Varrios! Check out the map of SJ gangs that we put out about a month ago. If someone has solid evidence of current EME members operating in SJ right now put it out there! If you go back in time there was numerous NF members operating in LA. In fact many of them came from LA varrios such as clanton 14!
#4 I really wish this "Shoe War" book would come out! It was supposed to be available May 5th? I am hoping for a better explanation of the North-South war than "Homeboy Favoritism". You see in my mind there are certain things that just don't make sense. NF-EME predates any Norteno-Sureno conflict. How is it then that they looked down on us as backward farmers? That conflict did not yet exist! Truth be told, the EME was preying upon their own as a whole. This upset many people from all over the state. This is why so many NF founding members were from down south! The NF was created in an attempt to represent all Hispanics, not just those from Northern California! I am hoping to read some new ideas in this book and maybe learn something new!

Anyways, peace out, Silent!

[bumperjack]

Greetings silent everything you have said is true schooling,I been around and in it all im saying is to this day ther are alot of eme members that never never banged north and south ther are NF members as of today that have never banged N or S so you cannot state All surenos are CCarnales or brothers cause they are not do they doing there bidding of course,sam with NF all are not Nortenos I know of 2 or 3 NF members that to this day that arenot Northerners one is from Chino older yes so when a statement is made like that I will tell all when you say All meaning not any? Old man gpt busted 9 months ago 77 years old he is from Visalia Eme,and fresno oakland san jose this guys were around and still around today on the streets,or in prisonthe Northern birthday is 1984 how many NF that are not Northerners more than you actually know but I wont or cant drop numbers and very careful to drop to many names let just say there are a big number from the north that are eme and never been Surenos and I personally know a handful of NF that never banged North or South mainly because by 1984 you were on your 3 rd generation of prison gang members not just 1st generation 2nd and 3 rd This a fact cause Im 3 rd generation silentwssj your schooling is true mine is also and I been ther watch and was in the middle much respects to you silentwssj

[bumperjack]

Slinetwssj,just look at it from tis perspective none fact The EME had 27. Years to recruit before the North southbirth and the ENE had 19 years to Recruit,So now tell me all NF members are Nortenis,and all EME members are Surenos, and. will say stop reading droup out books that will mislead into believing only first generation ENE mebers were from Southern,California , 3 generations happened before the actual birth of the North and South wars begin my friend true story and you wont find every thing in a book 75% thats it

[jeff]

Slinetwssj,just look at it from tis perspective none fact The EME had 27. Years to recruit before the North southbirth and the ENE had 19 years to Recruit,So now tell me all NF members are Nortenis,and all EME members are Surenos, and. will say stop reading droup out books that will mislead into believing only first generation ENE mebers were from Southern,California , 3 generations happened before the actual birth of the North and South wars begin my friend true story and you wont find every thing in a book 75% thats it

yeah,that's a myth, a lot of people think the Nortenos vs Surenos war is old but it's relatively new. in northern cities like Oakland for example the Nortenos didn't exist until the 90's. latino gangs have been in Oakland since the 1960's, maybe earlier, but they claimed their barrio not X4 or X3. the colors, Norte vs Sur and BB, didn't come into play until the mid to late 80's and 90's.

[bumperjack]

A myth are you kidding me I said 1984 is the birth date, Mid 1980s,They started killing each other in CDC , Jeff you sound like a gang activist your window is Relatively a 10 year span, A traditional story are you kidding me? Were you at in the mid 80s when this conflict started in grade School,30 years is not RELATIVELY NEW, A 30 year fixed loan on a house is Relatively new your another clown,Im not talking about Oakland ok,and I gave you a particular year,and you give me a 10 year window are you kidding me ,did you grow up inside the gated community or outside of it? You are Relatively new to this subject and your information,is from of course a outside veiw,mine is from a inside look and veiw, Can you deny or confirm the year 1984 because at first you state its a myth and then you confirm Mid 80s,30 years is a long time,my prison Number is 30 years old,who are you telling x3 and x4 didnt start untill mid 80s to. Early 90s I was around in the pen in them days, and year come with a real opinion not a contridictory statement,there is no gray area here a 10 year window is stating you dont no a date or year your a square jeff and a at times a clown,your education? Streets, gangs,books or,prisons? Yeah books are just accounts of ones opinion unless its history based on truth and fact data written proof by ones accounts who were present at said time and dates,What veiw are you commenting from?

[silentwssj]

Hey there Bumperjack! Much respects coming back at you homie! Once again I do not claim to know everything, I did live through a lot and I have definitely put out my best effort at doing my homework as well! I have never come across an actual date for the creation of the North South split. I am going to guess early 70's though. That is when all that "Farmero"- "Buster" crap started coming out! Read Some of "Mundos" stuff and you will get what I am talking about. He was EME from the 70's. I think what actually happened was that in the beginning Both the EME and the NF had members from both sides of the state. As time drug on Most NF members started to come from only Northern California and Most EME members started to come from only Southern California! This is how the whole Norteno-Sureno thing started. Once these guys became big homies they pulled their street gangs along with them. After enough time had passed it became pretty polarized. NF-Nortenos and EME-Surenos. Notice, I said most not all, There are always exceptions to the rule! Also, you are right, the EME had the jump on this whole thing. They had established themselves up north before this whole North-South thing jumped off! I can tell you some things from real life experience! I started banging Norte in 1988! About 75% of the varrios that are in SJ now were there back then as Nortenos in some form or fashion. I am from Varrio Horseshoe 3rd Generation! Generation #1 was started in 1978! Before that my Varrio went by the name of "Vagos" I can not say how long they were around before that. We are definitely one of the oldest in SJ though. A Homie from my hood named "Oyster" was killed by a paisa at the park in 1978! After that incident our name was changed to "Varrio Horseshoe" and has remained that ever sense! Real knowledge right there that cant be found in a book or internet! I can tell you from first hand experience "I was around then", Nortenos are definitely older then 1984! I was in 7th grade in "84", yes I was a youngster but definitely not blinded to my environment either! I went to school with youngster Nortenos all through that era and of course saw the older homies as well. I was personally schooled from the older Veteranos from my hood. They were 1st generation VHS and all had grown up as Nortenos in the late 70's! In short there is a lot of misinformation out there! I personally lived it and know better! I have seen a web site that claims 1984 as the date and I am here to tell you that is wrong! They make no distinction between Nortenos and Nuestra Raza which they mistakingly call "Northern Structure" a "Law Enforcement term". Nuestra Raza is what they call themselves. They were another prison gang that fell under NF. They were inbetween NF and Nortenos. They were around before 1984. They celebrated their anniversary date on Jan 22, 1984 in memory of a fallen soldier shot dead by CDC officers. Trust me they were around before that date though. It was simply choosen as a date to give honor to a fallen Homie who refused to lay down his weapon and was shot dead! I have also heard claims being made that Nortenos really did not get organized until the GUN CD came out! That is absolutely wrong! I was personally banging it for 10 years prior and I am only 3rd Generation! Read some of my earlier posts about my personal history. I was all over SJ Banging with multiple neighborhoods a decade earlier. Nortenos were highly established throughout by the time I got going in "88". They definitely did not just get going 4 years earlier! As for you Jeff, you are mistaken! Oakland has some really old Varrios and they definitely did not just start banging Norte in the 90's! I know numerous Vatos from up that way! They have been around for quite some time banging Norte! I do think that you are right in saying watch what you read Bumperjack! The thing is though I have insight that others do not! I banged with these guys on the streets and in the prison system! I personally know the people being talked about! I grew up with them! I can tell you things that these books fail to mention. I will not mention any names as that would be foul, but "Boxers" book "Nuestra Famila a Broken Paradigm" talks about 3 homies from my neighborhood! He does not say that but I personally know them! You wouldn't know all that from reading the book because he never mentions VHS! He also talks about a 4th homie from the West side or my side of town that I know real well to. When I read the NF timeline it mentions people that I know as well. Some were placed on the list and I knew about it before the time line ever came out! I knew about Crackers Vindiola and Babo Sosa before any of these books ever came out! I was quite honestly schooled proper in the pen! So, to make a long story short, I know what is BS and what is not! I am definitely not some guy that gets all of his information from books or the internet! Honestly, the one book that I can honestly say taught me a lot would be "Gabe Morales book Prison Gangs in America" His book shows old timers complete with their mug shots and personal letters! That one I got a lot from! These books are not all bad! Nina Fuentes book gives a solid date for Nortenos and Surenos around 81 or 82! Remember though that is when the point of no return was reached between the 2 sides! They were around before that! Here is something that I got from a book for you Bumperjack! I have never heard this on any web site or other book for that matter! David Barragon's book, Nuestra Famila, page 42, He talks about being an NF member and killing a member of the Arian Brotherhood? What do you think? I wonder if more NF people started writing books mabee more information would come to light. I find it funny that LE thinks that they can write books and say with absolute certainty that Chy Cadena is the only EME member to ever get killed by NF! That may be true, but I would like to hear more about it from the NF side! Also, who says that all prison homicides are solved? I am pretty sure that there is a number of killings that have occurred that they do not know who is guilty! Just some food for thought! Good science examines all angles of the same issue to get to the truth! Not just one side! Anyhow, I am not trying to disrespect either you Bumperjack or Jeff! I simply try to be as honest as possible and tell it like it is from my point of view! If someone out there is reading all of this and can prove anything that I say as wrong, come with it! I am a humble guy who never pretends to know everything. After all we are here to learn more right! Take care and God bless! Silent!

[bumperjack]

Silent I did not pull 1984 out of a book or website I also banged with VSL Davis street boys we fought ESo,HWD, Decoto the birthday is 1984 that comes straight from someone who is active in a regiment ,Yes your hood could of startedbefore that of course I banged throughout the 1970s in ,1980's was ther birth for sure 1981 no 1982 Know Im talking about the birthdate when the whole Conflict was, there reason the 1970s because none of us didnt bang N or S iknow for a fact it was,in 1980s,I also in prison and was validated 21. Years ago So my history does not come from drop out book I refuse to read them,and know homie I wont disrespect you either your a real exbanger even tho your out the car Im intouch with the hinta but of course there are things I know I cant or wont post,much respects see for many people who havent got true schooling and have been around my people do not know numbers which I cant put out ther but like I said not evrything is in a book the inner workings ther are alot of eme from Northern california they are not Surenos and virsa versa,I understand your veiw point but if you talk to someone who is active which you probably wont case you longer a part of there car can we agree the birth was in the 1980 s because I know for a fact is was in the 80s we go around and round we are obtanning our info and no can make that state because its not true and will only be when all them members either flip or dieand both sides have more members than you can imagine or know about the tips were still Recruiting all over the state for hispanics and believe me when I say they didnt care were you were from and the eme to this still dont bumperjack out,much respects silent your one of the few,that have any sense or knowledge because you like myself been there and done that be kool good talking to you and by far I dont claim to know evrything either till next time the CrazyWhiteBoy666/12

[silentwssj]

Hey there! So, after I posted this last one I looked up some stuff! My research came up with 1982 as being the exact date that it blew apart. The reason given was that Surenos were trying to tax Nortenos in New Folsom and they refused! I am still going to stick by an earlier date at least with identifying yourself as a Norteno. I am not going to say that they were involved in any heated conflict before that date! We are talking about an era where I admit that I was still a kid and just beginning to get my feet wet! I do have memories that stretch back into the early eighties though of homies wearing red and Banging Norte! I would say that by the time I hit JR high school it was on and crackin for sure! I was born in "72" just so you know. I am about to turn 42. I definitely was schooled by the older homies and my impression was that they were always Nortenos as well! I do realize that at some point, probably in the early 80's they went from simply identifying themselves as Nortenos in prison and on the streets to actually banging Norte! I would love to hear what your personal experiences are? I take it that you are at least 10 years older than me? I can see that if you were in prison during this era, this would be around the time period that Nortenos and Surenos started to bang on each in prison and the streets. Just so you know, I simply left the life to start a family and get my life together! To be honest, once I got out of the dope game this life did not matter to me much anymore! I never was NF, so I had no lifetime commitment! I simply told everyone that I was clean now and moving on in life! Honestly they respect that. There are not to many from my generation still running the streets anymore. I am still in contact with people from that life though. I don't call them up and ask questions like these as it would be in-appropriate! I am definitely in touch with a handful of homies from my varrio to this day though. Anyways, you definitely got me thinking now. I will do more research and see what I can come up with. If the opportunity arises, maybe I will slip in a question or two with certain people and see what they say! I am definitely not going to push that issue though, as it is just not cool to ask to many things, if you get my drift! Anyways, much respect goes out to you Bumperjack! I know that you are the real deal as well! I think it is cool that we have the opportunity to communicate like this! As I said before, I am a humble guy who does not claim to know everything. If I am wrong I will admit it! After all my sole purpose for being here is to learn more and teach when possible! Peace out, God Bless, Silent!

[bumperjack]

Yes likewise Silentwssj you are a good respectful man first I will go with 82 or 84 I know only because I was there in the 80' s when it all went down and know it would not be kool to ask question to anybody we can learn with out influence from active participants, for sure Im in it to win it,active but inactive No Retierment K- no homie, and yes you do understand and Im glad you left with your respect out the front door my commitment is por vida, yes Iam going to. Be 54 this year but it is awesome we have a direct line and we can communicte,with Knowledge and respect From the first time I had spoken to you I had a blind respect for the way you carried yourself my homie from the North I have No disrespect for anyone my nephew is a active Norteno but we have love and respect he is half chicano and have white from a set in Merced,but has ties to your guys in San jo,and that is were he told me the Norteno birtdate I know for a fact it was in the 1980s,1980 to 1986 was when the whites were the biggest care racially in CDC,from my knowledge and accounts I cant honestlly say 100% the actual year ? But can tell you the tips had many years to recruit and the cesspool was hispanics and they had to choose a car,not Nor S because that was not born I also came from a barrio and was a gangbanger in the 70 s all the 70s ESO east side oakland and HWD Hayward and Decoto,Union City,Ca were our enemies,when I went to prison in 1985,Everybody my homies also and the whites said I would want to ride with my own people because if not if a riot jumped off you would be the first casualty for race trading and it was true ,I witnessed it first had I have done a little over 20 years in 12 prisons in Cali and Nevada,Take I gangbanged up to 1984, And like yourself still have my respect with The VSL vatos and to thisday are also have relationships with a dozen of them in East bay area your are from South bay area the biggest city in Northern California,Story and King was the lowrider strip back in the days I know SanJo,homie Sedio ese good looking and look forward to corresponding with you and much respects for recognizing game they say recognizesgame ,much respects homie take care and god bless you know also Iam a god fearing man minus all of this god is good peace out

[bumperjack]

Slient also understand your position with family and you never had a lifetime committment so its all good you are one of many to see the life had no future,prisons,graves,and jails in general I got out 37 months ago you can personal message me and I will share my life story is going into a book this year but it hits on all 12 prisons I started gangbanging in 1972 with VSLdavis street boys,I guess when you were born 42 years ago,and you are a christian go figure and the Reason Iam here to share my life and story is because of the Good old dude (god),Im careful to give him the glory,for sure but I honor my committment and always will Iam drug free,crime free,dont smoke and love working out take care get at me when you have time peace out homie

[silentwssj]

Hey there! Much respect coming right back at you homie! I will make this a quick one as I got to go back to work. I am moving to a new work location this week and should hopefully have some internet access. If you don't hear from me until Friday night it did not work out. I should be available though, at least that is the plan! I have some theories on this whole thing and will share them with you later! I am seriously thinking about just asking a couple of people. I got a good connection from the Southern side. He is about 59 years old and spent about13 years in CDC. I also have a full fledged Carnal from the Northern side that I can talk to about all this. Give me some time to think about how I am going to approach this situation and I will tell you how it goes in a few weeks. Yes, I did go out the front door! I never Ratted, Dropped out or debriefed! I always walked the main line with my head held up high. This is why I am able to simply be honest with people about changing my life and it does not bother them. They know I put my fare share of work. They also know that I will never say anything about any of that! honestly, Even with a good name, I still do not like asking people questions though. Things like this make people nervous and for good reason! I think if I present it in the right way, we may be able to get some answers though. After all I am just asking about history! You and I definitely have a lot in common. I spend Monday-Thursday hitting them weights every week! I love running as well! I have been drug and alcohol free for almost 11 years! I guess you can say that I never forgot the lessons that I learned in the pen. I am a 2 time Iron man champ from high Dessert! Those that keep themselves in a constant state of readiness are hard to take down! Constant awareness of ones surroundings does not hurt either! Anyways, take care Bumperjack! No promises, but I will see what I can come up with later on over the next week or two! This conversation should probably go to PM status as I would love to hear more about you. Silent!

[bumperjack]

Yes Just approach it with care dont want to ruffle any ones feathers,Im for sure it was 80's but I love history and when we think we know it all we stop learning thats why you have to keep a open mind always, it is only about history of our California Hispanic and other races history, I love history and I study history my picture by the 67 impala,is me when I got out at 51 years old its my Norteno Nephews lowrider its a distant shot for a reason,take care and a date would be nice I learned alot of history as you know its part of our school I studied for 4 yrs in prison and obtained a B.A in history,but learning is about keeping a open mind take care homie much respects bumperjack from way back

[silentwssj]

Ok, for you people out there in LEGOLAND! LOL! I got rock solid confirmation on "82" for my hood becoming Nortenos! This came straight from the top! Not only from the Varrio, but also the Big Homies as well! Bumperjack! we will continue on in private from here on out! I just wanted to let everyone else know the date that I came up with. We were both very close in our estimation. I cant wait to read "The Shoe War" when that one comes out. it should be interesting! Much respects to everyone! Silent!

[MMRbkaRudog]

When I brought up colors in San Jo to a veterano, he said that the colors came into play in 1984. 14 and 13 definitely existed before then, but sounds like the early to mid 80's is when things really started to go down in the streets.

[silentwssj]

The way that I view this whole issue is that it was a process! There were things happening simultaneously all over the state on the streets and in the prisons during the same time period! I don't think anyone can give an exact date as it was different for each neighborhood! These issues were brewing for a decade before and they came to a head in a major way some time in the early 80's. I believe Bumperjack when he says 84, but I believe that was simply at the prison he happened to be at, at that time. So, yes his eyewitness account is to be taken literally. Other prisons conflicts happened earlier though! I have a written record from a book stating 82 is when it kicked off at new Folsom! Surenos were trying to tax Nortenos and they got off instead! These things take time to travel around all the institutions. By 84 I am sure they were getting off everywhere! Also, I contacted people back home and got a solid 82 for VHS. This came from the top! Street and prison level! They made it sound as if we were late to the game by the way! I am cool with saying early to mid 80's though! Remember everything is a process! Some neighborhoods came on board early, some late! I would agree that by 84 all neighborhoods were clearly defined by that point! After that time period it would only make sense that colors became a big thing. Remember, you also had neighborhoods down south backing NF during this time. Chino Sinners for example switched in 82! I am going to try and learn more about all this from my people. Just be patient! Silent!

[MMRbkaRudog]

Yeah, homie said something about cya. Don't know if he was there at the time.

The way that I view this whole issue is that it was a process! There were things happening simultaneously all over the state on the streets and in the prisons during the same time period! I don't think anyone can give an exact date as it was different for each neighborhood! These issues were brewing for a decade before and they came to a head in a major way some time in the early 80's. I believe Bumperjack when he says 84, but I believe that was simply at the prison he happened to be at, at that time. So, yes his eyewitness account is to be taken literally. Other prisons conflicts happened earlier though! I have a written record from a book stating 82 is when it kicked off at new Folsom! Surenos were trying to tax Nortenos and they got off instead! These things take time to travel around all the institutions. By 84 I am sure they were getting off everywhere! Also, I contacted people back home and got a solid 82 for VHS. This came from the top! Street and prison level! They made it sound as if we were late to the game by the way! I am cool with saying early to mid 80's though! Remember everything is a process! Some neighborhoods came on board early, some late! I would agree that by 84 all neighborhoods were clearly defined by that point! After that time period it would only make sense that colors became a big thing. Remember, you also had neighborhoods down south backing NF during this time. Chino Sinners for example switched in 82! I am going to try and learn more about all this from my people. Just be patient! Silent!

[bumperjack]

Yes we seem to agree on early 80's you had Norteno's and Sureno's the conflict of course started in prison as we all agree on,On all accounts from Slient and Rudog the San Jo boys I confer by the late 80's they were killing each other, and the bulldogs were riding with the Nortenos,and it was hot and heavy and all three street gangs were taking casualtys I was in Corcran the year 1989 and watch one big riot jump off were people lost there lives real shit,and I was a youngster at the time but I was a young convict,and was of course a spectature,because it was not our war,good info fellas with respects to you all bumperjack the Veterano...

[silentwssj]

You know It would be nice if we could get some other opinions out there! I don't care where you are from! Whether it be North, South, Black, White, or other! It is all good from my end! As long as people keep it respectful and real I welcome all opinions! I know some other people have information that they can contribute! Silent!