Surenos Upstate Cali

[Cali510Since76]

Big respect and what's up to everyone on this board. I picked up a lot of good info about the ins and outs of other areas that I didn't know. I a hoping to give some back, so here is my contribution.

Being a Sureno from the Bay Area, a typical question is "why are there Surenos from Northern Cali?".

There are quite a few reasons the homies have from up here, but one of the biggest is the rejection of Norteno culture and or having families based in SoCal. As we came up in the 80's and 90's, being Chicano, and or kids of recent immigrants, we just weren't a fit for what Nortenos offered. Nortenos have pretty much adopted everything black. Cornrows, sagging to their knees, nigga this, nigga that. They hang out with blacks, have kids with them, back them up etc. This is also the reason that there are quite a few Border Brother neighborhoods up here too, and it's because of that same rejection of the joining of Norteno culture with blacks. They also have a huge white population in every many Norteno varrios. We are talking like middle class white kids with good families and blond hair blue eyes. The Nortenos try to use Mexican and Chicano symbols, art, and culture, but everything about them is the opposite. They are so heavily integrated with black culture, that it is like they forgot about who and what they are.

So when you have family from SoCal, and or recently coming over from Mexico, you reject all of that, and it makes it easy to decide to war against it.

Plus, you see Sureno neighborhoods in almost every NorCal city and when you go down south to visit family or whatever, you never saw one Norteno neighborhood. It seemed really weak to not even control your own side of the state. I remember the first time being in a county jail down south, the younger homies who hadn't been to the state prisons yet, they had never seen a Norteno and would ask me 50 million questions and were super curios about them, like as if I was telling them about aliens from outer space or telling them of a big foot sighting .

There are even cities in NorCal that Nortenos were completely removed from. For example, Richmond. RST, VFL, CSL, and Easter Hill Locos cleaned them all out, the nearest ones are in San Pablo (VSP). I couldn't even imagine that happening in any city down south.

It's not that the Nortenos are weak, don't get me wrong, some Norteno varrios are down as fuk, but they just don't have the numbers, willingness, or organization to move Sureno neighborhoods out. Most Sureno neighborhoods have been around up there since the early 70s, and are now permanent.

It's so different up here, from down south, since we all have a common daily enemy, no real lasting Sureno neighborhoods beef. I've even been in situations where we would run into other Sureno neighborhoods and five minutes later be backing each other up against right then and there against Nortenos at a street fair or wherever.

The homies from down South have always been more than cool as fuck when we have rolled up in county jails down south too. Always steady with the Norteno questions though, ha

[ValleyKid]

Interesting..

[ValleyKid]

The "Nortenos adopting black culture" thing isn't 100%. Nortenos from Salinas down to Delano, for example, keep it more chicano and cholo. I've even seen pictures of that online, but it's true that most of them are on that black style.

[~J~]

I can speak for the era the original poster is talking about from a mostly neutral perceptive growing up in the 80's and 90's in San Jose, I want to address his comment and give an alternative opinion because there's a lot of biases in his post.

First thing first, I get the rejection you and your "homeboys" felt by Nortenos for being associated with non Chicano Mexican culture and while discrimination is unfortunately a part of life claiming Sur in Northern California is an oxymoron no matter how you slice it.

Something else we've discussed extensively here through the years and with input from older Nortenos homeboys... the consensus was that yes Nortenos within a certain demographic area did integrated and repack aspects of black culture in the 80's and 90's like Rap but Northern California is vast and this didn't really apply to most Nortenos elsewhere within that time frame. even having said that, East Bay homeboys can be seen in Teen Angel is the 80's and perhaps part of the 90's representing Chicano cholo culture. you can even find some photos on here in the Nor-Cal thread. In San Jose specifically I can tell you that sagging wasn't around until the late 90's and while yes some do use the N word and sag it was never widely adopted. now, SF/East bay N's were typically heavier influenced by Brothas by the mid 90's, be it from inside/outside association, rap culture or what have you. Another thing, straight up white boys were a outlier in Norteno culture most of these white looking dudes were either part Mexican or white looking Mexicans.

Regarding controlling upstate, take a look at how vast Northern California is even if we're speaking from Chico/Sac. to Delano, with much fewer numbers and a cholo culture that seems to be all but dying how are you going to control all that land? so are they being cleaned out like you mentioned, perhaps in part in your immediate area... or are they hanging up their boots so to speak or looking for an alternative lifestyle? also what Sureno varrio was established in the early 70's in NorCal? I haven't heard of even one. please enlighten me. Vicky's town which seemed to be the oldest in SJ but who's history is still unclear might go back to the late 70's, maybe. that's one gang in one of the biggest cities in Northern Cali at that time and it's not even the early 70's.

Also why would any sane Northern barrio try to establish a neighborhood in SoCal where they don't belong, have associations and where the population tends to be density populated. doesn't make any sense and likely suicide.

Anyways, I'm not here to preach but I'm of the opinion that Raza should instead come together and organize against the real enemy which is the establishment that holding down all minorities and even the average to low income white folks. that's my take...

[TheAngels]

I knew a dude from Fresno 14 and the dude acted Black.

What doesn't make sense to me is that Fresno doesn't consider themselves Nortenos apparently...?

Yet they wear red and push the 14. Or did they drop the 14 and go by Fresno Bulldogs only?

[ValleyKid]

I knew a dude from Fresno 14 and the dude acted Black.

What doesn't make sense to me is that Fresno doesn't consider themselves Nortenos apparently...?

Yet they wear red and push the 14. Or did they drop the 14 and go by Fresno Bulldogs only?

Fresno still has Norteno hoods. It's the Bulldogs specifically that don't claim Norte anymore.

[Unitedtwenty99]

This post seems like a bunch of BS to me. The reason there are surenos in northern california is because a lot of sureno varrios extended themselves and moved up north in the 70s and 80s. A lot of towns in the north had atleast 1 sureno varrio move into town pre - 1990. Stockton had VST and PBS show up there in the 80s maybe before. Salinas, oakland, san jose same shit. Those gangs that moved there have been recruiting ever since. You can google "the ballad of rocky rontal" a former NF member talks about VST13 coming to stockton and recruiting in the 80s, enough with the "not mexican enough" propaganda to, mexican mafia didnt hate northerners for acting black, it was because a lot of em came from rural areas. That was stupid to since a lot of northerners came from urban places like the bay area.

Nortenos didnt start acting black until waaaay later. If you look at my post history you can watch a video from stockton showing nortenos in 1990s and they didnt say the N word or act overly black. Apart from all that shit you do see surenos acting black in south LA. This post is dumb.

[Unitedtwenty99]

Also a lot of hoods from LA were already up north before the north and south wars started. There homies got out of prison and laced them up.

[bumperjack]

You wont find no Norteno sets in Southern California because they cant recruit. You find. Homies claiming Southern sets that have never been to LA and they are not even affilated with any of the hoods in So Cal. Surenos upstate are plastico...thats how most if not all are recieve by real Surenos from real hoods down south.

[ValleyKid]

Surenos upstate are plastico...thats how most if not all are recieve by real Surenos from real hoods down south.

There's real Surenos from Southern Cali up north too, but they're in very small numbers (for obvious reasons). But i agree that most Surenos up north are fake, and some of them are paisas that make real Surenos look bad.

[JesscaBay]

Never heard of or seen a middle class white norteno. Sounds like BS. There are white nortenos though just like there are white surenos.

[cursed]

Surenos upstate are plastico...thats how most if not all are recieve by real Surenos from real hoods down south.

There's real Surenos from Southern Cali up north too, but they're in very small numbers (for obvious reasons). But i agree that most Surenos up north are fake, and some of them are paisas that make real Surenos look bad.

There are real X3 hoods in N Cal. They were given the OK to start up after members hit the penitentiary and put in work. The fake ones got pushed out by the blessed ones and X4.

These are legit Sur
Angelino Heights (Santa Rosa)
Tami Lee Gang (San Jose)
Sur Santos Pride (San Jose)
South Side Locos (Oakland and Concord)
19th Street Cons (SF)
16th Street (SF)
B Street (Hayward)
Easter Hill (Richmond)
Central Side (Richmond)
18th Street (Eureka)
East Side Locos (Eureka)

[MMRbkaRudog]

A lot got addressed, but I will say of course you don't see nortenos in LA. I don't see nortenos claiming norte stands for everything north of the border, accepting rivals like southerners or being copied as much as the gangs popularized in Hollywood. There are small exceptions, but nortenos are usually from the north or have connections to northerners. I.E. how surenos act like sur stands for everything south of the border, accept BB's and those who claimed 14 in the past and so many claim sur out of nowhere with a lot do to the popularity of LA gangs or some claim it due to not getting along with nortenos. You're not going to see someone claim norte in the sur, because they don't get along with some surenos. I will say the sur didn't always accept some of these so called surenos, but they obviously no longer care where you're from and so south basically is just a word that had more of a meaning to the veteranos of the past.

[ValleyKid]

Surenos upstate are plastico...thats how most if not all are recieve by real Surenos from real hoods down south.

There's real Surenos from Southern Cali up north too, but they're in very small numbers (for obvious reasons). But i agree that most Surenos up north are fake, and some of them are paisas that make real Surenos look bad.

There are real X3 hoods in N Cal. They were given the OK to start up after members hit the penitentiary and put in work. The fake ones got pushed out by the blessed ones and X4.

These are legit Sur
Angelino Heights (Santa Rosa)
Tami Lee Gang (San Jose)
Sur Santos Pride (San Jose)
South Side Locos (Oakland and Concord)
19th Street Cons (SF)
16th Street (SF)
B Street (Hayward)
Easter Hill (Richmond)
Central Side (Richmond)
18th Street (Eureka)
East Side Locos (Eureka)

What about MS on 20th Street in SF?

[ValleyKid]

A lot got addressed, but I will say of course you don't see nortenos in LA. I don't see nortenos claiming norte stands for everything north of the border, accepting rivals like southerners or being copied as much as the gangs popularized in Hollywood. There are small exceptions, but nortenos are usually from the north or have connections to northerners. I.E. how surenos act like sur stands for everything south of the border, accept BB's and those who claimed 14 in the past and so many claim sur out of nowhere with a lot do to the popularity of LA gangs or some claim it due to not getting along with nortenos. You're not going to see someone claim norte in the sur, because they don't get along with some surenos. I will say the sur didn't always accept some of these so called surenos, but they obviously no longer care where you're from and so south basically is just a word that had more of a meaning to the veteranos of the past.

But at the end of the day, Sur stands for Southern California. Too many bangers are misinformed and have their politics/ information fucked up lol.

[DiegoDog]

Interesting thread and always good to hear a different perspective as I’ve always wondered why people claimed Sur/SoCal in Norcal.

From my observations, OP is correct, you won’t see any northerners banging in SoCal. The most I saw was tagging in Mexico and even that was minuscule.

The term nigga is used up and down the state by everybody. The thug verses chollo comparison is found everywhere where there’s a large Hispanic population. A perfect example is Barrio Azteca out of El Paso/west Texas being chollo and the Texas Syndicate out of Houston/south Texas being thuggish.

SoCal Sur aren’t friendly to Blacks or Pisas but both demographics can be found claiming Sur on the streets and the yard. Neither group would be allowed EME membership though.

The NorCal Sur I’ve seen have been Pisas, SoCal transplants or kids who want to be gangsters but don’t know or aren’t friendly with any Northerners. The Pisas and local kids have no affiliation with SoCal and just made up a gang.

These are my observations from living in Fresno , San Diego and San Jose.